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Does this intersection style have a name?

Started by cjk374, August 20, 2019, 09:10:42 AM

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cjk374

https://www.google.com/maps/@31.5280269,-91.3917428,239a,35y,54.42h,39.48t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Natchez, MS, where US highways 61, 84, 98, and 425 all come together. It looks like it is partly a DDI, but not completely. Maybe there is no name for it except a charlie-foxtrot?  :spin: :-D
Runnin' roads and polishin' rails.


Mapmikey


mb2001

Crossover left turn or displaced left turn are the two names I've heard for this.

US 89


froggie

^ Yes, it's a modified version of a continuous flow intersection.

cjk374

Ok...I found a new type of intersection yesterday at Tullos, LA where US 84 (2 lane road) intersects US 165 (4 lane divided road) at grade. US 84 had stop signs & US 165 is free flowing. Here is how the intersection used to be configured:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/jp9xvDsAtJr5KJcXA

I say that US 84 "had" stop signs because now the intersection configuration has changed. The following directions apply when travelling in either direction on US 84:

1. When you get to US 165, you are forced to turn right...no other options.

2. You make a U-turn. There are signs showing the US 84 & 165 opposite direction with U-turn arrows under the route shield.

3. Then you get into the right turn lane to turn right to continue on US 84 or stay straight on US 165 to "complete" your left turn.

Does this new configuration have a name?
Runnin' roads and polishin' rails.

sprjus4

#6
Quote from: cjk374 on October 27, 2019, 11:07:08 AM
Ok...I found a new type of intersection yesterday at Tullos, LA where US 84 (2 lane road) intersects US 165 (4 lane divided road) at grade. US 84 had stop signs & US 165 is free flowing. Here is how the intersection used to be configured:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/jp9xvDsAtJr5KJcXA

I say that US 84 "had" stop signs because now the intersection configuration has changed. The following directions apply when travelling in either direction on US 84:

1. When you get to US 165, you are forced to turn right...no other options.

2. You make a U-turn. There are signs showing the US 84 & 165 opposite direction with U-turn arrows under the route shield.

3. Then you get into the right turn lane to turn right to continue on US 84 or stay straight on US 165 to "complete" your left turn.

Does this new configuration have a name?
RCUT (restricted crossing U-turn)

North Carolina loves them.

CNGL-Leudimin

Quote from: cjk374 on August 20, 2019, 09:10:42 AM
https://www.google.com/maps/@31.5280269,-91.3917428,239a,35y,54.42h,39.48t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Natchez, MS, where US highways 61, 84, 98, and 425 all come together. It looks like it is partly a DDI, but not completely. Maybe there is no name for it except a charlie-foxtrot?  :spin: :-D

FTFY. US 98 hasn't reached Natchez since 1999, i.e. for 20 years now.
Supporter of the construction of several running gags, including I-366 with a speed limit of 85 mph (137 km/h) and the Hypotenuse.

Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: cjk374 on October 27, 2019, 11:07:08 AM
Ok...I found a new type of intersection yesterday at Tullos, LA where US 84 (2 lane road) intersects US 165 (4 lane divided road) at grade. US 84 had stop signs & US 165 is free flowing. Here is how the intersection used to be configured:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/jp9xvDsAtJr5KJcXA

I say that US 84 "had" stop signs because now the intersection configuration has changed. The following directions apply when travelling in either direction on US 84:

1. When you get to US 165, you are forced to turn right...no other options.

2. You make a U-turn. There are signs showing the US 84 & 165 opposite direction with U-turn arrows under the route shield.

3. Then you get into the right turn lane to turn right to continue on US 84 or stay straight on US 165 to "complete" your left turn.

Does this new configuration have a name?

So the side street is simply a RIRO and motorists use a median cut to make a U-turn down the road?

Seems awfully normal...thousands around the country.

sprjus4

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 28, 2019, 06:30:33 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on October 27, 2019, 11:07:08 AM
Ok...I found a new type of intersection yesterday at Tullos, LA where US 84 (2 lane road) intersects US 165 (4 lane divided road) at grade. US 84 had stop signs & US 165 is free flowing. Here is how the intersection used to be configured:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/jp9xvDsAtJr5KJcXA

I say that US 84 "had" stop signs because now the intersection configuration has changed. The following directions apply when travelling in either direction on US 84:

1. When you get to US 165, you are forced to turn right...no other options.

2. You make a U-turn. There are signs showing the US 84 & 165 opposite direction with U-turn arrows under the route shield.

3. Then you get into the right turn lane to turn right to continue on US 84 or stay straight on US 165 to "complete" your left turn.

Does this new configuration have a name?

So the side street is simply a RIRO and motorists use a median cut to make a U-turn down the road?

Seems awfully normal...thousands around the country.
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/09059/

froggie

Quote from: sprjus4 on October 27, 2019, 11:30:14 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on October 27, 2019, 11:07:08 AM
Ok...I found a new type of intersection yesterday at Tullos, LA where US 84 (2 lane road) intersects US 165 (4 lane divided road) at grade. US 84 had stop signs & US 165 is free flowing. Here is how the intersection used to be configured:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/jp9xvDsAtJr5KJcXA

I say that US 84 "had" stop signs because now the intersection configuration has changed. The following directions apply when travelling in either direction on US 84:

1. When you get to US 165, you are forced to turn right...no other options.

2. You make a U-turn. There are signs showing the US 84 & 165 opposite direction with U-turn arrows under the route shield.

3. Then you get into the right turn lane to turn right to continue on US 84 or stay straight on US 165 to "complete" your left turn.

Does this new configuration have a name?
RCUT (restricted crossing U-turn)

North Carolina loves them.

Also called J-Turn.  And as Jeff noted, they're not uncommon.

sprjus4

Quote from: froggie on October 28, 2019, 07:32:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 27, 2019, 11:30:14 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on October 27, 2019, 11:07:08 AM
Ok...I found a new type of intersection yesterday at Tullos, LA where US 84 (2 lane road) intersects US 165 (4 lane divided road) at grade. US 84 had stop signs & US 165 is free flowing. Here is how the intersection used to be configured:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/jp9xvDsAtJr5KJcXA

I say that US 84 "had" stop signs because now the intersection configuration has changed. The following directions apply when travelling in either direction on US 84:

1. When you get to US 165, you are forced to turn right...no other options.

2. You make a U-turn. There are signs showing the US 84 & 165 opposite direction with U-turn arrows under the route shield.

3. Then you get into the right turn lane to turn right to continue on US 84 or stay straight on US 165 to "complete" your left turn.

Does this new configuration have a name?
RCUT (restricted crossing U-turn)

North Carolina loves them.

Also called J-Turn.  And as Jeff noted, they're not uncommon.
My comment specifically about North Carolina was in reference to the fact they install them with every arterial widening project that has happened in the past at least 10 years.

roadman65

Maryland is installing them along US 301 in the Eastern Shore to avoid adding stop lights.  Florida is including them in most urban road widening projects to eliminate cross traffic.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

webny99

Parts of M 59 north of Detroit function this way. And several have been added to US 169 southwest of the Twin Cities area, as well. You can sort of see some of the construction going on here. Basically, it eliminates the cross traffic, and puts a weave in place instead. It's not perfect, and it is likely a net disadvantage for those turning left or going straight on the side street, but it is still my preference because it's more freeway-like in nature, and it does eliminate incoming left turns. And, it reduces the wait time at any one point, even if mileage is added.

For what it's worth, the Wikipedia page for "J-turn" (which is, more commonly, a maneuver that begins in reverse) redirects to "Superstreet": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstreet

US 281 north of Loop 1604 in the San Antonio area is cited as an example. I've been on that road a few times, but it doesn't strike me as a proper example. It's a short segment that is effectively a transition between freeway and regular divided highway, and basically every intersection is modified to accommodate the heavier-traffic movements, i.e. some left turns are allowed. I'm not sure it solved the areas congestion woes, either; it was still plenty congested every time I passed through there. A six- or eight-lane boulevard with standard intersections might have worked just as well, and certainly would have been less confusing.

GaryV

Quote from: webny99 on October 28, 2019, 08:22:37 AM
Parts of M 59 north of Detroit function this way. ...
Just a very few intersections.  Most of them have typical Michigan Lefts - the cross street can still go straight through.  I saw smaller streets - not main section boundary roads - where the cross street has to turn even to go straight.

There's instances where the cross street ends at M-59, and must turn right - but that's how a Michigan Left works at a 3-leg intersection.

webny99

Quote from: GaryV on October 28, 2019, 02:33:19 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 28, 2019, 08:22:37 AM
Parts of M 59 north of Detroit function this way. ...
Just a very few intersections.  Most of them have typical Michigan Lefts - the cross street can still go straight through.  I saw smaller streets - not main section boundary roads - where the cross street has to turn even to go straight.

This entire 3-mile segment qualifies, but other than that, you are correct that most intersections allow cross traffic to go straight.

sprjus4

Quote from: roadman65 on October 28, 2019, 08:04:09 AM
Maryland is installing them along US 301 in the Eastern Shore to avoid adding stop lights.  Florida is including them in most urban road widening projects to eliminate cross traffic.
Maryland's focus for US-301 on the Eastern Shore should be simply to build interchanges and overpasses where necessary. Make the entire thing a 70 mph freeway. But that's a different topic. RCUTs need to be used a temporary or short-term solution with a long-term plan in mind (interchanges and overpasses in the case of US-301), like a bypass, freeway upgrades, etc. on long-distance corridors.

sprjus4

Quote from: webny99 on October 28, 2019, 03:00:53 PM
Quote from: GaryV on October 28, 2019, 02:33:19 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 28, 2019, 08:22:37 AM
Parts of M 59 north of Detroit function this way. ...
Just a very few intersections.  Most of them have typical Michigan Lefts - the cross street can still go straight through.  I saw smaller streets - not main section boundary roads - where the cross street has to turn even to go straight.

This entire 3-mile segment qualifies, but other than that, you are correct that most intersections allow cross traffic to go straight.
Any plans to convert that section from MD-53 to I-94 to a freeway? Seems like a logical extension of the MD-59 freeway east of MD-53 and there's a large median that could accommodate a Texas-style freeway.

tradephoric

Other parts of the country confuse J-turns with Michigan lefts.  There are a lot of news reports of "Michigan lefts" being built when in fact they are just simple J-turns.  Michigan lefts refer to the entire intersection layout (where cross-street traffic can travel straight through the intersection unimpeded) and not just the turnaround itself.

The few Michigan lefts outside of Michigan are often partial Michigan lefts (where side-street traffic can make direct left-turns ).  This is commonly seen at the Michigan left intersections in Tuscon. 

tradephoric

I just realized that the Michigan left at Grant and Oracle in Tuscon have permissive dual left-turns.  Jake have you noticed this one before?

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.250531,-110.9780927,3a,75y,181.1h,82.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skamAMYhYQ8pq9DM7Mfdw0w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

sprjus4

Quote from: tradephoric on October 28, 2019, 05:28:04 PM
I just realized that the Michigan left at Grant and Oracle in Tuscon have permissive dual left-turns.  Jake have you noticed this one before?

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.250531,-110.9780927,3a,75y,181.1h,82.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skamAMYhYQ8pq9DM7Mfdw0w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
That specific signal just seems like a traditional left.

GaryV

Quote from: webny99 on October 28, 2019, 03:00:53 PM
Quote from: GaryV on October 28, 2019, 02:33:19 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 28, 2019, 08:22:37 AM
Parts of M 59 north of Detroit function this way. ...
Just a very few intersections.  Most of them have typical Michigan Lefts - the cross street can still go straight through.  I saw smaller streets - not main section boundary roads - where the cross street has to turn even to go straight.

This entire 3-mile segment qualifies, but other than that, you are correct that most intersections allow cross traffic to go straight.
That section falls under my exception, where the cross streets to not continue directly north and south.  Heydenreich Rd has a jog at M-59, and Card Rd ends.  All the other intersections are smaller local roads.  The Clinton River gets in the way.  And I suspect that the places where there is now housing surrounding dug out lakes and ponds was swampy so there was no development or roads going through.

tradephoric

Quote from: sprjus4 on October 28, 2019, 09:47:28 PM
Quote from: tradephoric on October 28, 2019, 05:28:04 PM
I just realized that the Michigan left at Grant and Oracle in Tuscon have permissive dual left-turns.  Jake have you noticed this one before?

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.250531,-110.9780927,3a,75y,181.1h,82.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skamAMYhYQ8pq9DM7Mfdw0w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
That specific signal just seems like a traditional left.

The Michigan Left movements are along Grant road not Oracle.  I'd still say it's a Michigan left intersection since you can't make direct lefts along Grant.

jakeroot

Quote from: tradephoric on October 28, 2019, 05:28:04 PM
I just realized that the Michigan left at Grant and Oracle in Tuscon have permissive dual left-turns.  Jake have you noticed this one before?

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.250531,-110.9780927,3a,75y,181.1h,82.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skamAMYhYQ8pq9DM7Mfdw0w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Indeed! I think all of the left turns in Tucson-proper are permissive, apart from a couple triple left turns. AFAIK, they run with lagging phasing, like most other left turns in Tucson.




Quote from: cjk374 on August 20, 2019, 09:10:42 AM
https://www.google.com/maps/@31.5280269,-91.3917428,239a,35y,54.42h,39.48t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Natchez, MS, where US highways 61, 84, 98, and 425 all come together. It looks like it is partly a DDI, but not completely. Maybe there is no name for it except a charlie-foxtrot?  :spin: :-D

I quite like the double right turn turn using two yield signs. Assuming crashes aren't an issue, seems like a good option. Wish it were more common! At least in areas without pedestrians.

johndoe

Quote from: cjk374 on August 20, 2019, 09:10:42 AM
https://www.google.com/maps/@31.5280269,-91.3917428,239a,35y,54.42h,39.48t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Looking at this CFI...I'm wondering if I've ever seen a "quarter" of one before.  I've seen plenty of "half" versions, but dunno about only 1 leg getting displaced.  Know of others?



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