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Regional Boards => Central States => Topic started by: Baloo Uriza on April 11, 2017, 09:21:52 AM

Title: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on April 11, 2017, 09:21:52 AM
Quote from: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/gilcrease-turnpike-extension-plans-approved-by-oklahoma-transportation-commission/article_8d5f877b-6c17-5018-bab6-ad0eb5795116.html
OKLAHOMA CITY — The Oklahoma Transportation Commission on Monday approved the route for a toll road to complete the Gilcrease Expressway.

Last month, the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority adopted a resolution to further work on the project, which has been on the books for decades. The estimated cost of completing the final leg of the project is $290 million.

The five-mile, four-lane roadway will include an adjacent multiuse trail and feature 22 bridges, the most expensive of which will be two Arkansas River crossings.

The extension from Interstate 44 in west Tulsa north to Edison Street will be a toll road owned and operated by the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority.

“The department has completed a review of the proposed alignment and believes that this facility will enhance the safety and functionality of the existing transportation system,” the agency said in a press release.

“The addition will assist in alleviating the growing congestion on major urban interstates and highways in the area and is anticipated to subsequently reduce the number and severity of accidents and improve mobility in the region.”

Department of Transportation Executive Director Mike Patterson said opposition to expanding turnpikes is common but that he has not heard any about the Gilcrease Expressway project.

Oklahoma Turnpike Authority Executive Director Tim Gatz said the project will help an area of Tulsa that has been underserved.
Transportation Secretary Gary Ridley called the project “long overdue” and said the goal is to have the project under construction before Gov. Mary Fallin leaves office in less than two years.

Ridley said that when Fallin became governor, she told him she wanted the issue resolved. Fallin took office in January 2011 and will finish her second term in January 2019.

The project involves a funding partnership among the city of Tulsa, Tulsa County, the Indian Nations Council of Governments, the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority, the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, the federal government and a private investor.

Fallin said the project is important for the city of Tulsa in the area of economic development and job creation.

In unrelated action, Fallin issued a proclamation declaring April and May work zone awareness months. She encouraged residents to be attentive and patient on the roadways.

Preliminary statistics show that in 2016, some 17 people were killed and 212 were injured in 181 collisions in Oklahoma work zones, according to the department.

Some 60 Oklahoma Department of Transportation employees have been killed in the line of duty in the agency’s history, according to the department.

“If your hands are on the wheel, then you are responsible for ensuring the safety of everyone around you, including yourself,” Patterson said. “We do our part to set up safe work zones in order to make critically needed repairs, but drivers have to do their part, too.”

I believe this is going to be OK 12 Toll based on OklaDOT section 72-87P, but it appears that the plans have been updated compared to what appears in those control sections.  I would presume there's a finalized plan for it to have been approved, and I'm curious where this plan would be available for inspection.  A GeoTIFF would be perfect, but a vector of some form would be nice.  Bonus if it also has the plans for the lane layout as well.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Henry on April 11, 2017, 09:58:03 AM
Well, this is good news!
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on April 11, 2017, 05:56:55 PM
Well, this is good news!

An expensive road to nowhere while mass transit barely serves the west side?  Not really, no.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Scott5114 on April 11, 2017, 08:30:37 PM
And this is a roads forum.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on April 12, 2017, 02:57:22 PM
And this is a roads forum.

You can be a roadgeek and enjoy driving and still call out stupid situations when they're stupid.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: The Ghostbuster on April 12, 2017, 04:56:26 PM
Is the portion from W. Edison St. back over to the existing segment of the Gilcrease Expressway at N. 41st W Ave proposed to be constructed at any point, thus completing the entire length of the long-proposed Gilcrease Expressway?
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on April 13, 2017, 07:20:53 AM
Is the portion from W. Edison St. back over to the existing segment of the Gilcrease Expressway at N. 41st W Ave proposed to be constructed at any point, thus completing the entire length of the long-proposed Gilcrease Expressway?

It's been proposed for a long time, but it's not part of the current project.  That and I think this is part of the Sequoyah Loop Expressway project since it's a state thing and not the city this time.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: compdude787 on April 13, 2017, 09:23:49 PM
I've always found it strange how there's virtually no development just a few miles NW of downtown Tulsa. Are they expecting more development to happen in the near future? If not, then there's little justification to building this road as a full freeway. Right now, perhaps a two-lane road would suffice until the area starts to see some serious development.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on April 14, 2017, 01:32:16 AM
I've always found it strange how there's virtually no development just a few miles NW of downtown Tulsa. Are they expecting more development to happen in the near future? If not, then there's little justification to building this road as a full freeway. Right now, perhaps a two-lane road would suffice until the area starts to see some serious development.

Tribal politics and terrain are the two biggest factors against that happening, and neither looks like it's going to change anytime soon.  I wouldn't expect the Sequoyah Loop Expressway being completed through the Osage Nation anytime soon.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: compdude787 on April 14, 2017, 01:46:13 AM
I've always found it strange how there's virtually no development just a few miles NW of downtown Tulsa. Are they expecting more development to happen in the near future? If not, then there's little justification to building this road as a full freeway. Right now, perhaps a two-lane road would suffice until the area starts to see some serious development.

Tribal politics and terrain are the two biggest factors against that happening, and neither looks like it's going to change anytime soon.  I wouldn't expect the Sequoyah Loop Expressway being completed through the Osage Nation anytime soon.

Ah, I see. That makes sense. It's not unlike some of the indian reservations in Phoenix where the development stops right next to their boundaries. It's almost as if they function like an urban growth boundary.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on April 14, 2017, 04:21:47 AM
I've always found it strange how there's virtually no development just a few miles NW of downtown Tulsa. Are they expecting more development to happen in the near future? If not, then there's little justification to building this road as a full freeway. Right now, perhaps a two-lane road would suffice until the area starts to see some serious development.

Tribal politics and terrain are the two biggest factors against that happening, and neither looks like it's going to change anytime soon.  I wouldn't expect the Sequoyah Loop Expressway being completed through the Osage Nation anytime soon.

Ah, I see. That makes sense. It's not unlike some of the indian reservations in Phoenix where the development stops right next to their boundaries. It's almost as if they function like an urban growth boundary.

Also a factor as to why there's such a stark contrast in development when you cross Admiral Place, which is the border of the Creek and Cherokee Nations.  That border meets the Osage Nation at the Osage County line.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: kphoger on April 14, 2017, 12:59:43 PM
It's almost as if they function like an urban growth boundary.

Well, that's sort of what they were created for, isn't it?  Land carved out of the nation, set aside for agrarian peoples to continue their traditional way of life without being encroached upon by the expansion of the nation at large.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on April 14, 2017, 01:05:45 PM
It's almost as if they function like an urban growth boundary.

Well, that's sort of what they were created for, isn't it?  Land carved out of the nation, set aside for agrarian peoples to continue their traditional way of life without being encroached upon by the expansion of the nation at large.

Well, sure, if you actively ignore the whole genocide-by-paperwork factor at the root of Americanization and the Removal.  Hitler looked up to Andrew Jackson for that.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: kphoger on April 14, 2017, 01:37:47 PM
I did actively ignore that, I know.  But what I mean is that they were designed to keep the rest of us from encroaching.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on April 14, 2017, 01:51:35 PM
I did actively ignore that, I know.  But what I mean is that they were designed to keep the rest of us from encroaching.

In this case, I don't really think it's so much that as the Osage Nation's population (tribal citizen and otherwise) are, for the most part, much more distributed towards Pawhuska, Bigheart/Barnsdall, and Bartlesville.  US 60 between Bartlesville and Pawhuska is, unquestionably, the busiest highway in their borders if you exclude the two Tulsa County highways that swing in (LL doesn't really count given that the Apache interchange is practically a surveyor's error on the Osage side; G doesn't really count given that the Mingo Cycleway probably gets a higher traffic count than G does west of LL).
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: bugo on May 17, 2017, 01:41:29 AM
Despite what Baloo says, this road is going to be extremely useful for me. I will be able to go to Sand Springs and points west without having to go through the mess that is downtown Tulsa and the IDL. It will make trips much safer and far less stressful.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: bugo on May 17, 2017, 01:43:06 AM
It's not going to be called "Sequoyah Loop". It's going to be called the "Gilcrease Expressway". That is an ancient name on old maps and is no longer in use. What's next, calling the LL the "Osage Expressway"?
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: US71 on May 17, 2017, 08:51:33 PM
Despite what Baboon says, this road is going to be extremely useful for me. I will be able to go to Sand Springs and points west without having to go through the mess that is downtown Tulsa and the IDL. It will make trips much safer and far less stressful.

Easy on the name calling.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: J N Winkler on May 18, 2017, 09:19:05 PM
Tulsa is a strange city in a number of ways--for starters, it has an unusually large number of skyscrapers in the Gothic Revival style as a result of the timing of the Oklahoma oil boom in the early twentieth century, and its urban development has been influenced by its being Osage/Creek/Cherokee contact territory.

I see this project largely as a continuation of the "city" segment of I-44 past its TOTSO a few miles north of the Creek Turnpike interchange.  It will be a nice bypass of the IDL and the hairier segments of the Sand Springs Expressway.  I don't expect that it will be continued to the present four-way stop at the north end of the Tisdale Expressway, however.  The fact that the area such a continuation would run through is enclosed by a Tulsa strip annexation argues for its eventual completion.  However, besides Osage tribal issues, I would expect any impact on the viewsheds of the Gilcrease Museum to be quite controversial.  This is attractive country with rolling hills, so I smell serious money, the kind that can spend on hobby farms for horses.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on May 19, 2017, 05:53:31 AM
Tulsa is a strange city in a number of ways--for starters, it has an unusually large number of skyscrapers in the Gothic Revival style as a result of the timing of the Oklahoma oil boom in the early twentieth century, and its urban development has been influenced by its being Osage/Creek/Cherokee contact territory.

I see this project largely as a continuation of the "city" segment of I-44 past its TOTSO a few miles north of the Creek Turnpike interchange.  It will be a nice bypass of the IDL and the hairier segments of the Sand Springs Expressway. 

There's a hairy spot?  It's remarkably straightforward compared to the BA Expressway or the MLK Expressway.  It rarely comes up on the traffic reports except when it's wet...you'd think a road that's the high point of the area would drain better.

I don't expect that it will be continued to the present four-way stop at the north end of the Tisdale Expressway, however. 

Minor point... there are no stop signs on Tisdale Parkway.  There's the interchange with the MLK Expressway and the Sand Springs expressway, a half-diamond at Fairview Street, a diamond at Pine, a diamond at Apache, traffic lights at Gilcrease, and traffic lights at it's terminus with 36th Street.

Wouldn't mind seeing the current plan for the Gilcrease Expansion.  I can't find anything more recent than the last time this came up years ago.  Not that it matters much what with the whole thing likely to be put off indefinitely or cancelled given the current fiscal situation and many far more urgent needs in the region.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: bugo on May 19, 2017, 10:44:08 AM
I have PDF files of the Tisdale/Gilcrease interchange somewhere.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: J N Winkler on May 19, 2017, 11:41:18 AM
There's a hairy spot?  It's remarkably straightforward compared to the BA Expressway or the MLK Expressway.  It rarely comes up on the traffic reports except when it's wet...you'd think a road that's the high point of the area would drain better.

Yup, there is.  The part of the Sand Springs Expressway that would be bypassed by this new construction has sharp curves, a 55 limit, and incorrect signing of the Gilcrease Museum Road exit as a lane drop.  I freely concede that the Broken Arrow and MLK are worse.

Minor point... there are no stop signs on Tisdale Parkway.  There's the interchange with the MLK Expressway and the Sand Springs expressway, a half-diamond at Fairview Street, a diamond at Pine, a diamond at Apache, traffic lights at Gilcrease, and traffic lights at its terminus with 36th Street.

So there is--I think I last drove Tisdale that far north in 2013 or early 2015 and simply didn't remember the Gilcrease and 36th Street intersections correctly as signal installations, since StreetView suggests that is what they have had from the start.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on May 20, 2017, 01:34:58 AM
There's a hairy spot?  It's remarkably straightforward compared to the BA Expressway or the MLK Expressway.  It rarely comes up on the traffic reports except when it's wet...you'd think a road that's the high point of the area would drain better.

Yup, there is.  The part of the Sand Springs Expressway that would be bypassed by this new construction has sharp curves, a 55 limit, and incorrect signing of the Gilcrease Museum Road exit as a lane drop.  I freely concede that the Broken Arrow and MLK are worse.

Gilcrease Expressway wouldn't even go in the same direction, though.  It's perpendicular.  So it wouldn't be bypassed.  And really, 55 for an urban freeway's doing pretty good.  That said, I really wish OklaDOT would figure it the fuck out on signage in general.  Good news is, at least on the Tulsa expressways, if you point it out to them that there's a problem and can find it in the MUTCD, they do fix it (which is why LL Tisdale is no longer signed incorrectly as a lane drop on eastbound MLK).

Minor point... there are no stop signs on Tisdale Parkway.  There's the interchange with the MLK Expressway and the Sand Springs expressway, a half-diamond at Fairview Street, a diamond at Pine, a diamond at Apache, traffic lights at Gilcrease, and traffic lights at its terminus with 36th Street.

So there is--I think I last drove Tisdale that far north in 2013 or early 2015 and simply didn't remember the Gilcrease and 36th Street intersections correctly as signal installations, since StreetView suggests that is what they have had from the start.
[/quote]

It is a low traffic intersection, but I think the only reason it's not a stop sign is mostly for visibility since it goes from being an expressway to being a parkway in about a kilometer.  Stupid people might not have followed the speed limit drop, and the signal helps highlight that they're heading towards the losing end of a T intersection.  Which is also probably why that light is a demand light defaulting to a green for 36th Street.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: rte66man on January 17, 2018, 09:16:07 PM
Exhuming the thread.......

https://www.pikepass.com/engineering/PublicNotices.aspx

Note the Combined Map.  PDF of the Extension with the "conceptual" north extension from US412 to the Tisdale.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Plutonic Panda on October 25, 2019, 10:23:01 AM
Ground was broken on this project a couple days ago. Work should be complete in a couple years.

Quote
After more than 50 years of maybes, somedays and possibilities, the west leg of the Gilcrease Expressway took a giant step toward reality at a groundbreaking ceremony Tuesday morning.

At the corner of 56th West Avenue and 21st Street, Gov. Kevin Stitt, Mayor G.T. Bynum and County Commissioner Karen Keith gathered with other local and state officials to commemorate the final leg of the expressway first envisioned in 1961.

- https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/officials-break-ground-on-west-leg-of-gilcrease-expressway/article_258e6f99-4b3a-575a-8d2b-ccb569c968b5.html
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 21, 2020, 04:02:45 PM
This project is moving forward and should be under construction or soon to be.

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-transportation-announces-1201-million-loan-gilcrease-expressway-west
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: rte66man on May 23, 2020, 05:58:58 PM
This project is moving forward and should be under construction or soon to be.

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-transportation-announces-1201-million-loan-gilcrease-expressway-west

So in one place Chao says its a $120 million grant but another place says up to $120 million. Wonder what would cause the full amount not to be awarded?
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on May 23, 2020, 06:02:03 PM
Wonder what would cause the full amount not to be awarded?

I'm guessing when they realize that the Gilcrease Turnpike is unnecessary and unwanted.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 23, 2020, 07:09:01 PM
Talk about beating a dead horse. Here I thought I was bad at that. I suppose with every single post made that provides updates to this project, that is happening regardless, we should just expect the usual suspects to “remind” us how much they don’t like this project.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on May 23, 2020, 07:22:21 PM
Talk about beating a dead horse. Here I thought I was bad at that. I suppose with every single post made that provides updates to this project, that is happening regardless, we should just expect the usual suspects to “remind” us how much they don’t like this project.

I mean, yes?  This is a pretty textbook example of a highway nobody wants.  it's not just me, the folks who live along it don't want it, either.  Really the only difference between this and the Kickapoo Turnpike is that the Kickapoo Turnpike is that even though nobody wants it, it's already under construction.  Not that I don't see a reason to stop that as it exists now and let that rot like Optima Lake at this point.  Or finish it and when it wears out, tear it down.  Either way.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: US 89 on May 23, 2020, 07:39:05 PM
Talk about beating a dead horse. Here I thought I was bad at that. I suppose with every single post made that provides updates to this project, that is happening regardless, we should just expect the usual suspects to “remind” us how much they don’t like this project.

I mean, yes?  This is a pretty textbook example of a highway nobody wants.  it's not just me, the folks who live along it don't want it, either.

[citation needed]

Obviously somebody wants it - otherwise it would never have been planned in the first place.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Alps on May 23, 2020, 07:42:27 PM
Talk about beating a dead horse. Here I thought I was bad at that. I suppose with every single post made that provides updates to this project, that is happening regardless, we should just expect the usual suspects to “remind” us how much they don’t like this project.

I mean, yes?  This is a pretty textbook example of a highway nobody wants.  it's not just me, the folks who live along it don't want it, either.

[citation needed]

Obviously somebody wants it - otherwise it would never have been planned in the first place.
Everyone who lives on Liberty Memorial Parkway opposes this project.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on May 23, 2020, 07:48:40 PM
Talk about beating a dead horse. Here I thought I was bad at that. I suppose with every single post made that provides updates to this project, that is happening regardless, we should just expect the usual suspects to “remind” us how much they don’t like this project.

I mean, yes?  This is a pretty textbook example of a highway nobody wants.  it's not just me, the folks who live along it don't want it, either.

[citation needed]

Obviously somebody wants it - otherwise it would never have been planned in the first place.

Literally only the OTA wants it.  There's a reason why this didn't get off the drawing board as OK 12, the last five times before this going back to this plan's origination when my grandparents were kids and the original OK 12 was decommissioned as obsolete in 1927, freeing the number.  If this route was even remotely necessary, literally anyone other than ODOT or OTA would be pushing this forward.  But, nope...it's literally being fought by property owners in its path and the overwhelming majority of people can plainly see existing two lane county roads are woefully overcompensating already.  There's no need for a motorway and this whole thing is just going to put OTA further in the hole, never to repay its costs.

As it is, the Gilcrease Expressway west of about the airport is basically unused.  I've never seen another car any time I've driven the Gilcrease west of LL Tisdale.  And the Tisdale, well, there's no reason that needed to be a freeway, county or otherwise.  People use it, but you're more likely to see traffic on MLK or Union, both really don't need to be 4 lane roads now...
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Baloo Uriza on May 23, 2020, 07:51:33 PM
Talk about beating a dead horse. Here I thought I was bad at that. I suppose with every single post made that provides updates to this project, that is happening regardless, we should just expect the usual suspects to “remind” us how much they don’t like this project.

I mean, yes?  This is a pretty textbook example of a highway nobody wants.  it's not just me, the folks who live along it don't want it, either.

[citation needed]

Obviously somebody wants it - otherwise it would never have been planned in the first place.
Everyone who lives on Liberty Memorial Parkway opposes this project.

Most folks along the Liberty Parkway are barely aware that it exists.  The whole extension of the Creek Turnpike east of 169 is rarely traveled by anyone and it's still a largely rural loop to nowhere.  Very few people who aren't roadgeeks bother to pay to drive it; most people take more direct routes on OK 51 or section line roads, and save for 71st/Kenosha, most of those county roads are severely overbuilt.  This new turnpike in Osage County is only going to double down on this.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: 1 on May 23, 2020, 08:01:10 PM
Talk about beating a dead horse. Here I thought I was bad at that. I suppose with every single post made that provides updates to this project, that is happening regardless, we should just expect the usual suspects to “remind” us how much they don’t like this project.

I mean, yes?  This is a pretty textbook example of a highway nobody wants.  it's not just me, the folks who live along it don't want it, either.

[citation needed]

Obviously somebody wants it - otherwise it would never have been planned in the first place.
Everyone who lives on Liberty Memorial Parkway opposes this project.

Most folks along the Liberty Parkway are barely aware that it exists.  The whole extension of the Creek Turnpike east of 169 is rarely traveled by anyone and it's still a largely rural loop to nowhere.  Very few people who aren't roadgeeks bother to pay to drive it; most people take more direct routes on OK 51 or section line roads, and save for 71st/Kenosha, most of those county roads are severely overbuilt.  This new turnpike in Osage County is only going to double down on this.

whoosh
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: sprjus4 on May 23, 2020, 08:02:01 PM
As it is, the Gilcrease Expressway west of about the airport is basically unused.
Because it goes nowhere. Or rather it does via other 2 lane surface routes, but at that point it's faster to follow the freeways through Downtown. The Turnpike will provide a bypass of Downtown Tulsa and an additional river crossing. It's going to get usage.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: sprjus4 on May 23, 2020, 08:09:07 PM
The whole extension of the Creek Turnpike east of 169 is rarely traveled by anyone and it's still a largely rural loop to nowhere.
12,000 AADT near I-44, growing to 20,000 around the southern side. It certainly has usage. That's a developing area, and traffic counts are likely going to continue increasing. Looking at past years, they have been steadily rising each year.

I'd say based on where development is already existent, the Gilcrease Tpke extension will likely get more traffic than the Creek Tpke currently has. I fail to see how "nobody wants it" or "it won't be used". Anybody living in the southern or eastern suburbs would benefit by having a bypass of Downtown bound to US-412 to the west, Sand Springs, and anything out that way.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: bugo on May 24, 2020, 01:22:11 AM
Everyone I know in the part of town I live in wants it because it will make it far easier to get from midtown to Sand Springs and points west. The IDL is a death trap, and being able to bypass it would be well worth the toll. You're making stuff up again.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: bugo on May 24, 2020, 02:46:01 AM
The interchange at US 64 is going to be a diamond? WTF? This is almost as short sighted as the traffic light at the intersection of the Gilcrease and the Tisdale.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 24, 2020, 05:27:07 AM
The interchange at US 64 is going to be a diamond? WTF? This is almost as short sighted as the traffic light at the intersection of the Gilcrease and the Tisdale.
Oklahoma just can’t do interchanges the right way. My guess is both interchanges will be built hopefully as a stack when the NW segment gets built.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: bugo on May 24, 2020, 07:06:45 AM
The interchange at US 64 is going to be a diamond? WTF? This is almost as short sighted as the traffic light at the intersection of the Gilcrease and the Tisdale.
Oklahoma just can’t do interchanges the right way. My guess is both interchanges will be built hopefully as a stack when the NW segment gets built.

There are plans to convert the Gilcrease/Tisdale intersection to a huge stack interchange at some point in the future. I think I have a map of the proposed interchange somewhere on my hard drive that I pasted together from several ODOT maps. I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Here it is.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49929915142_4dda99d3b1_k.jpg)
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Revive 755 on May 24, 2020, 01:40:03 PM
The interchange at US 64 is going to be a diamond? WTF? This is almost as short sighted as the traffic light at the intersection of the Gilcrease and the Tisdale.

Even better how they have a 'Freeway Ends 1500 Feet' after that stoplight. (https://goo.gl/maps/ytArhPhKn1wUpKHAA)
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 24, 2020, 02:50:48 PM
RE: BUGO, nice! Did you happen to see any timeline? It would be nice if the economy roared back to see that done before 2030.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: bugo on May 24, 2020, 05:22:58 PM
RE: BUGO, nice! Did you happen to see any timeline? It would be nice if the economy roared back to see that done before 2030.

I haven't heard of one.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Scott5114 on May 25, 2020, 04:45:33 AM
Most folks along the Liberty Parkway Creek Turnpike, or OK 364, are barely aware that it exists.  The whole extension of the Creek Turnpike east of 169 is rarely traveled by anyone and it's still a largely rural loop to nowhere.  Very few people who aren't roadgeeks bother to pay to drive it; most people take more direct routes on OK 51 or section line roads, and save for 71st/Kenosha, most of those county roads are severely overbuilt.

https://www.pikepass.com/PDF/Yearly%202018.pdf#page=4

If something happening 5,893 times a day qualifies as "rare" in your part of Tulsa, I'd like to go up there and buy some lottery tickets. That's like the time that guy argued with me on here that OMMA cards were "rare" when 1 out of 200 Oklahomans had them.

364 is a very lovely bypass of Tulsa, and can be worth the money to avoid going through town. It's not quite as tempting as it was when there was that really decrepit part of 44 still in service, but if I was headed up to Joplin and beyond, I'd consider using it, depending on time of day and how much of a hurry I was in.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Plutonic Panda on August 05, 2020, 07:52:19 AM
This project is 20 percent completed. The article here has some photos of the progress:

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/gilcrease-expressway-extension-project-already-20-done-spokesman-says/article_f4e6845c-c545-5172-b503-affdf6d59293.html
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: rte66man on September 07, 2020, 04:54:51 PM
This project is 20 percent completed. The article here has some photos of the progress:

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/gilcrease-expressway-extension-project-already-20-done-spokesman-says/article_f4e6845c-c545-5172-b503-affdf6d59293.html

A few random shots from September 6.

Westbound 21st St approaching Chandler Park:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50317395396_a5dac1c3bf_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jEnNBW)

Piers on north side of 21st St.  Wonder if the broad base is in case of flooding.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50317395366_d8e5c29f66_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jEnNBq)

Looking south.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50316725133_0640872a0a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jEjnnF)

Looking north. I believe the Arkansas River bridge will start here.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50317576667_b56a36cb50_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jEoJvi)

Southbound on the Gilcrease extension between 41st and 51st Streets.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50317576642_00512b4d18_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jEoJuS)

You can see the dirtwork for the 51st St interchange.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50317576672_849e37d132_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jEoJvo)
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Plutonic Panda on January 14, 2022, 03:11:07 PM
Update: this project should be hit major completion and open by the summer(22):

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/gilcrease-bridge-over-arkansas-river-nearing-completion-tollway-expected-to-open-in-summer/article_d2c14b80-71b3-11ec-8c3e-8b19606a1a79.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Scott5114 on January 14, 2022, 07:46:20 PM
This is the road that was approved to get the 344 number at the same time 301, 312, 375, et al were approved.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 17, 2022, 03:47:36 PM
Was there ever any significant opposition to completing the Gilcrease Expressway over the decades? Or was lack of funding the reason why it has taken so long for the expressway to be completed as originally proposed?
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: edwaleni on January 17, 2022, 04:59:12 PM
I couldn't find any evidence of construction between US-412 North to 31st Street North.

Maybe this is why they needed the money from the Feds.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Plutonic Panda on January 17, 2022, 05:33:29 PM
I couldn't find any evidence of construction between US-412 North to 31st Street North.

Maybe this is why they needed the money from the Feds.
This section wasn't included in the Driving Forward program that funded the first segment. There is a new larger initiative that is underway which will fund this section.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: will_e_777 on January 18, 2022, 10:22:11 PM
I remember when that two lane section between 51st and 41st opened the early 90s.  It's certainly taken long enough.  I even knew a couple of people that had some of their land purchased for it back in like 1994.

Just looking at the photos, is 51st Street going over the turnpike?
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: paulthemapguy on January 19, 2022, 10:05:21 AM
Make the Muskogee Turnpike and Sand Springs Expressway into Interstate 46! Do it you cowards!  Then if the Gilcrease makes a nice detour around Tulsa to the north, make it I-646 or something of that nature (to avoid confusion with 244, 444).
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: chays on January 20, 2022, 10:36:10 AM
I couldn't find any evidence of construction between US-412 North to 31st Street North.

Maybe this is why they needed the money from the Feds.
This section wasn't included in the Driving Forward program that funded the first segment. There is a new larger initiative that is underway which will fund this section.
So is my understanding correct, the only section of the Gilcrease Turnpike extension to be completed in 2022 is the part SOUTH of US 412? Is there a timeline for the part NORTH of US 412?
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: yakra on January 20, 2022, 01:16:11 PM
I see no mention of it in the 8-year plan (https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-and-projects/8-year-construction-work-plan.html).
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: edwaleni on January 20, 2022, 04:43:35 PM
I couldn't find any evidence of construction between US-412 North to 31st Street North.

Maybe this is why they needed the money from the Feds.
This section wasn't included in the Driving Forward program that funded the first segment. There is a new larger initiative that is underway which will fund this section.
So is my understanding correct, the only section of the Gilcrease Turnpike extension to be completed in 2022 is the part SOUTH of US 412? Is there a timeline for the part NORTH of US 412?

The Gilcrease Bridge over US-412 is a full size overpass, but it appears to only have 2 ramps, both on the east side.

I did see some utility relocation and elevation on Edison Str and 57th W, which shows where it will come north (someday).

But I don't see *any* work through Harlow Creek up to W 31st N.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 20, 2022, 05:41:26 PM
Since there have been a number of tollways given state highway designations with a three in the one-hundreds place (301, 312, 351, 364, 375), I agree with the proposed designation of OK 344 for the Gilcrease Turnpike, although it could have been OK 311 (the H.E. Bailey Turnpike Norman Spur should become OK 304 or OK 309, and if the Kickapoo Turnpike does not become Interstate 240 it should be OK 340). Now if Google Maps could only show OK 301, OK 312 and OK 375 along their recently-designated routes.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Scott5114 on January 20, 2022, 10:38:27 PM
The H.E. Bailey spur was designated as an extension of OK-4 (which makes sense, since OK-4 previously ended at the western end of the Bailey spur). It is signed as such from I-44 and OK-76 but not on the mainline yet.

I wish we'd steal the old Florida practice of printing the state outline in red on toll roads.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: bugo on January 21, 2022, 01:39:46 PM
I wonder if the part between US 412 and the Tisdale Parkway is going to be built by the state or by local authorities. The portion of the Gilcrease in between the Tisdale and US 75 is a city street. So, going clockwise, the road will be maintained by the OTA from I-44 to US 412, (unknown) from US 412 to the Tisdale, the City of Tulsa from the Tisdale to US 75 and ODOT from US 75 to I-244. I wonder if the whole thing will eventually be OK 344 and OK 11 truncated or rerouted, possibly along the Tisdale.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: rte66man on January 22, 2022, 04:37:46 PM
I remember when that two lane section between 51st and 41st opened the early 90s.  It's certainly taken long enough.  I even knew a couple of people that had some of their land purchased for it back in like 1994.

Just looking at the photos, is 51st Street going over the turnpike?

Yes.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: skluth on March 27, 2022, 03:24:25 PM
Apparently some locals didn't realize the short section that was already built will be tolled (https://www.fox23.com/news/local/community-angered-after-toll-booths-installed-gilcrease-expressway/LGH27HUULFCJFJWV4OXKR4JTZE/) despite the toll being part of the original announcement (see OP).
I'm not local so I have no idea if this is a communication failure, or people not paying attention and just wanting something to be true.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: The Ghostbuster on March 27, 2022, 07:05:00 PM
If someone can get pictures of these “alleged” new toll booths, they would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: edwaleni on March 29, 2022, 12:00:00 AM
If someone can get pictures of these “alleged” new toll booths, they would be much appreciated.

You mean these eToll gantries being installed at 46th Street?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51968122273_abd916b8b4_h.jpg)

Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: debaterthatchases on April 23, 2022, 07:32:55 PM
The new OK-344 assurance markers are now up on the northbound leg that's open rn.
(https://photos.app.goo.gl/HNVUQjBzErLJm67A7)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HNVUQjBzErLJm67A7
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Scott5114 on April 23, 2022, 11:17:07 PM
The new OK-344 assurance markers are now up on the northbound leg that's open rn.
(https://photos.app.goo.gl/HNVUQjBzErLJm67A7)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HNVUQjBzErLJm67A7


Cool, thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: yakra on April 26, 2022, 06:49:53 PM
An OK344 marker can also be seen at 0:33 of the video at
https://ktul.com/news/local/berryhill-prepares-to-fight-to-eliminate-toll-between-west-41st-and-51st

...So, it's open & signed 344 between where & where exactly?
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Great Lakes Roads on April 26, 2022, 10:32:23 PM
https://ktul.com/news/local/berryhill-prepares-to-fight-to-eliminate-toll-between-west-41st-and-51st

People in the Berryhill area of Tusla want the tolls to be eliminated between the 41st and 51st street interchanges, but it's highly unlikely that's going to happen since the OTA owns the road.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Plutonic Panda on April 26, 2022, 11:08:26 PM
They could work with the city and counties to build a new arterial road. Would that not solve the issue?
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Scott5114 on April 26, 2022, 11:26:11 PM
They could work with the city and counties to build a new arterial road. Would that not solve the issue?

A frontage road, perhaps, a la Beltway 8?
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Plutonic Panda on April 26, 2022, 11:31:25 PM
They could work with the city and counties to build a new arterial road. Would that not solve the issue?

A frontage road, perhaps, a la Beltway 8?
Yeah I should have said frontage road.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: swake on April 27, 2022, 12:24:24 AM
It's a dumb argument. 49th W Ave is less than half a mile to the east of the turnpike and runs the parallel to the highway through west Tulsa/Berryhill. It's an unimproved arterial that if traffic dictates can be widened, except for the fact it doesn't have the nearly the traffic load needed to be widened now and with the highway it will carry even less traffic.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: sprjus4 on April 27, 2022, 01:02:45 AM
I honestly don’t see the issue with just not collecting tolls between those two exits. It’s a short distance. The vast majority of traffic on the freeway will continue to be through traffic and unaffected - they’re still paying.

It would satisfy the locals, not result in much loss - to the point it might just be negligible, and not require the city to have to improve parallel routes or construct a new frontage road.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: The Ghostbuster on April 28, 2022, 02:17:27 PM
The OK 344 designation was not listed along the Gilcrease Turnpike on the 2023 edition of the Rand McNally Road Atlas. I guess it is too soon for that. Maybe the 2024 edition will show it as OK 344.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: bugo on April 30, 2022, 02:14:26 PM
This was really a shitty thing to do. Take a road that was a city street and build a turnpike on top of it. They should have built a frontage road. I generally support the OTA, but this is sorry. It was also shitty for the City of Tulsa or whoever owned that road to give it to the OTA without building a free alternative. And 49th is not a practical alternative. First of all, it doesn't have an intersection with the Gilcrease, and second, it isn't built to handle the amount of traffic it will get. It is a narrow 40 MPH road through an industrial area I used to use the Gilcrease that is being tolled on my commute, and it would have cost me 5 minutes if I had to avoid that stretch of highway. You shouldn't have to shunpike to drive on a road that was free for decades.

I think the fact that they are taking a free road and tolling is is why everybody is upset, and I don't blame them.

The imagery at https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/ shows the road under construction all the way to US 64. Google Maps' imagery is older and doesn't show the construction.

Here's a screen cap showing the OK 344 shield. I noticed there was not a north or a south directional sign above the OK 344 shield. It looks like it was taken on the part of the current Gilcrease Expressway between 41st and 51st, the part that is going to be tolled.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52040440373_4fecdd9c26_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Plutonic Panda on April 30, 2022, 02:26:58 PM
Yeah hopefully they can add a frontage road.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: rte66man on April 30, 2022, 02:48:55 PM
This was really a shitty thing to do. Take a road that was a city street and build a turnpike on top of it. They should have built a frontage road.

In the 70's when I244 was built down to I44, the stub end of the Gilcrease was built west over SW Blvd and the railroad over to 51st St. It ended there for many years. When TCC built their West campus on 41st, the street in question was built (about 1990 IIRC). I did not remember that the city built it but I may be mistaken. If the State built it, then they have every right to do with it whatever they want. The Legislature gave OTA authority to conduct a feasibility study during the 2010 session. It also said they could proceed to build it without additional Legislative approval.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: swake on April 30, 2022, 04:10:43 PM
I don't know who built the road from 51st to 41st, but it's not in the city of Tulsa or in Sand Springs. Most of the turnpike is in Berryhill, which is an unincorporated area in Tulsa County between the two cities, I don't know why it never incorporated as a town or city or was annexed into Tulsa or Sand Springs but Berryhill does have its own school district.   

The new turnpike doesn't enter the city of Tulsa until you get to the river. The next extension planned to go north of US-412 will be in Tulsa but very little of this turnpike is.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 04:50:21 PM
This was really a shitty thing to do. Take a road that was a city street and build a turnpike on top of it. They should have built a frontage road.

In the 70's when I244 was built down to I44, the stub end of the Gilcrease was built west over SW Blvd and the railroad over to 51st St. It ended there for many years. When TCC built their West campus on 41st, the street in question was built (about 1990 IIRC). I did not remember that the city built it but I may be mistaken. If the State built it, then they have every right to do with it whatever they want. The Legislature gave OTA authority to conduct a feasibility study during the 2010 session. It also said they could proceed to build it without additional Legislative approval.

I mean, they have every legal right. But the populace doesn't have to agree that it was fair or the right thing to do. In other states, that sort of thing tends to result in legislators' careers ending prematurely.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: sprjus4 on April 30, 2022, 10:04:06 PM
Yeah hopefully they can add a frontage road.
Or just simply not collect tolls between the two exits.

A frontage road would be more costly.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: Plutonic Panda on April 30, 2022, 10:39:14 PM
Yeah hopefully they can add a frontage road.
Or just simply not collect tolls between the two exits.

A frontage road would be more costly.
Yeah that’s a good idea as well.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: The Ghostbuster on May 03, 2022, 04:32:35 PM
When/if the Gilcrease Turnpike is fully completed, will the OK 11 segment between US 75 and Interstate 244 be decommissioned and renumbered as OK 344, or will the 344 designation terminate at US 75?
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: swake on May 03, 2022, 06:58:01 PM
When/if the Gilcrease Turnpike is fully completed, will the OK 11 segment between US 75 and Interstate 244 be decommissioned and renumbered as OK 344, or will the 344 designation terminate at US 75?

What the state should do is move OK-11 over to the LL Tisdale Parkway.
Title: Re: Gilcrease Turnpike extension plans approved by Oklahoma Transportation Commissio
Post by: will_e_777 on May 15, 2022, 12:47:01 AM
that's an expensive oof:

"Tulsa police said around 11:45 a.m. a dump truck was traveling eastbound on Highway 412 with the back loader raised up, that hit the traffic sign that going across Highway 412."

https://www.newson6.com/story/627e8da58f80ee7ef761a199/highway-412-closed-at-49th-w-ave-after-highway-sign-falls-on-semitrailer