Brian Purcell posted a blog post about flyovers ramps rising in San Antonio with a shot of the flyover ramps of the TX-151/I-410 stack interchange taking shape. http://www.onthemoveblog.com/flyover-fairy/#more-6408
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=277981&page=631
Scroll down, and one sees the diagram for the I-10/410 stack.
Google maps had updated some of their satellite shots, one of the flyovers at the current I-410/US-90 west interchange had beginned to take shape.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.39843,-98.64805&z=17&t=S
What took so long for the flyover fairy to return to San Antonio?
I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 05, 2018, 10:28:28 PM
I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.
Back when the southern I-35/410 interchange was built, that area was mainly rural but now the urban sprawl had beginned to reach up that area.
One of the first flyover ramps at the I-410/US-90 west interchange is open.
https://twitter.com/TexHwyMan/status/1059623607163371520
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on March 06, 2018, 09:57:23 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 05, 2018, 10:28:28 PM
I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.
Back when the southern I-35/410 interchange was built, that area was mainly rural but now the urban sprawl had beginned to reach up that area.
No San Antonio native but did spend twelve weeks at Ft. Sam Houston 25 years ago. The 410 loop is pretty far in, at least by today's standards. More of an inner loop. In hindsight perhaps it should been built farther out. It was probably all farmland in 1960, meaning 410's routing.
Quote from: DJStephens on November 07, 2018, 05:46:11 PM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on March 06, 2018, 09:57:23 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 05, 2018, 10:28:28 PM
I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.
Back when the southern I-35/410 interchange was built, that area was mainly rural but now the urban sprawl had beginned to reach up that area.
No San Antonio native but did spend twelve weeks at Ft. Sam Houston 25 years ago. The 410 loop is pretty far in, at least by today's standards. More of an inner loop. In hindsight perhaps it should been built farther out. It was probably all farmland in 1960, meaning 410's routing.
1604, once fully built out...will be the "outer loop"
Quote from: thisdj78 on November 13, 2018, 05:17:36 PM
No San Antonio native but did spend twelve weeks at Ft. Sam Houston 25 years ago. The 410 loop is pretty far in, at least by today's standards. More of an inner loop. In hindsight perhaps it should been built farther out. It was probably all farmland in 1960, meaning 410's routing.
1604, once fully built out...will be the "outer loop"
[/quote]
Depends how long it'll be the "outer loop", there's an unofficial loop who beginned to form with parts of TX-46, TX-123, TX-97, TX-173 and TX-16 called "The Circuit".
http://texashighwayman.com/circuit.shtml
I think it's pretty likely Sequin and New Braunfels will have a direct freeway link sometime over the next decade. Or at least TX-DOT had better be at work building one by then. It's one of the fastest growing regions in the nation. But upgrading TX-46 would already be difficult since the highway between those two cities is getting encroached with development. The problem is the same for TX-46 between New Braunfels and Boerne. If the portion of "The Circuit" North and East of San Antonio is going to be built it will probably have to be built mostly on a new terrain path.
TX-80 between San Marcos/I-35 and Luling/I-10 could be another freeway "spoke" for the region growing between Austin and San Antonio.
Quote from: thisdj78 on November 13, 2018, 05:17:36 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on November 07, 2018, 05:46:11 PM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on March 06, 2018, 09:57:23 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 05, 2018, 10:28:28 PM
I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.
Back when the southern I-35/410 interchange was built, that area was mainly rural but now the urban sprawl had beginned to reach up that area.
No San Antonio native but did spend twelve weeks at Ft. Sam Houston 25 years ago. The 410 loop is pretty far in, at least by today's standards. More of an inner loop. In hindsight perhaps it should been built farther out. It was probably all farmland in 1960, meaning 410's routing.
1604, once fully built out...will be the "outer loop"
C.W. Anderson Loop. Yes it should have been "built" out by now, and had a 3di shield slapped on it I-810. The northern section, just south of Camp Bullis has been limited access for close to twenty five to thirty years. What is the delay on the rest of it? Especially with all the funds the tex-dot has.
Can you guys down in SA send the flyover fairy to OKC when you're done with it please?
Yeah, no kidding. It sure seems like way too much to ask for ODOT or OTA to build a 4 level stack interchange anywhere. The closest thing we have to a fully directional interchange is the one at I-40 & I-44 in Oklahoma City. That one is old and obsolete for the traffic load. Meanwhile, it's literally taking decades for ODOT to re-do the OKC interchanges at I-44 & I-235 as well as I-35 & I-240. Both will have just two flyover ramps and two cloverleaf loops. For such modest interchange designs it's odd that it's taking so long for them to get built. But then I guess we should expect such things with the way Oklahoma has funded its roads.
^^^
Yeah, I can't think of a single freeway to freeway interchange I'm satisfied with in OKC area. They don't have a T freeway to freeway interchange I like or think is sufficient.
The ones they're rebuilding now(I-235/I-44 & I-240/I-35) should be 4 or 5 stack directional. OTA interchanges are a joke. Both on the Kilpatrick are missing directions although the one at SH-74 is getting two or three new flyovers which might make it the first fully built directional interchange that doesn't have left exits(I'm looking at I-35 and I-40/I-44).
I don't like the I-35/I-44 interchange because of the left exits.
I can only think that OkDOT will focus on the I-44/I-40 interchange after they wrap up work on their existing interchange projects.
Edit to add I completely forget I was in SA thread! LOL sorry for the long off topic post.
Yeah, Oklahoma related stuff is off topic. But then we're next door, just on the other side of the river from Texas. That makes the difference between super highways in Oklahoma and Texas that much more glaring obvious.
I can drive 3 hours down to Dallas and see 4 and 5 level directional stack interchanges a-plenty. That includes some of the most impressive highway interchanges on the entire planet, such as the "High Five" interchange at LBJ Freeway and N Central Expressway. If I was going to compile a top 10 highway interchanges in the world list the High Five would definitely be on it.
I do understand Oklahoma has around 1/10th the population of Texas and thus has a much smaller tax base. But then there are neighboring states such as Louisiana and New Mexico that have some of their own impressive directional interchanges.
New Mexico only has one. The reconstructed "big I". Segmental. Interchange of I-25 and I-40. 00' to 02'. Did most of the layout and fitting of the post tensioning ductwork in the individual segments, as well as some of the reinforcement QC. It replaced the original interchange, mid sixties, which featured Connecticut style L exits and high speed L lane entrances.
For the rebuild, some of the Big I flyovers were designed as one lane, some as two lane. Frankly, in hindsight, all of them should have been two lane. Not possible to widen a segmental flyover. I-25 through the interchange should have been eight lanes. It is six. The project made great effort also, to connect to an archiac elevated section of I-25 that dates from the late fifties. South of the project zone. Instead of including that section also, trenched, widened and straightened.
A great opportunity there to improve I-25, via depression, with neighborhood reconnection, and to provide deck parks and green space was missed.
Yeah, it's a shame not all the flyovers of the Big-I interchange are at least 2 lanes wide. For that interchange's flaws, it's still nicer than any interchange in Oklahoma. With some work on the I-40/I-35/I-235 interchange in downtown OKC it could be pretty cool. It really needs a big flyover for EB I-40 to NB I-235. The current cloverleaf loop in that interchange is just plain stupid. But that's what we get when we're cheap.
Texas has very few cast-segmental interchanges. The High Five has segmental sections where the flyovers overlap in the center of the interchange. The rest of the interchange is more conventional. I think the new stack interchange in Florida, at FL-826 & FL-836 (Palmetto & Dolphin Expressways) near Miami International Airport is pretty impressive. It looks like it's all segmental. Nearly all the ramps between the two toll roads are 2 lanes wide. The new interchange with I-10 and Loop 303 West of Phoenix is pretty cool.
My favorite flyover continues to be 105/110. I also love the 101/110 interchange even though it is obsolete and deficient. High five comes in a cool third.
The I-105/I-110 interchange in LA is impressive, but there are two things I don't like about it. 1: The aesthetics of the bridge pylons and bridge spans is pretty plain. 2: the NB I-110 movement to WB I-105 is a tight 25mph cloverleaf ramp.
The US-101/I-110 interchange in downtown is old, but still an icon of freeway design. Those three "beams" connecting the US-101 roadways at the top of the stack is unique to that interchange.
One of my favorite interchanges is I-95 in Springfield, VA at the Capital Beltway. It wasn't built in a state-of-the-art cast-segmental design. But complexity of the interchange and the roads leading into it (particularly I-95) is mind boggling. I think the interchange with US-1 and the Capital Beltway next to the Woodrow Wilson Bridge is pretty cool as well. It's not a freeway to freeway interchange, but the ramp designs pretty cool looking overhead. I-95 from South of Springfield on over to I-295 across the Potomac is an impressive drive (when it's not in a traffic jam that is).
Back in Texas, I think the recently completed (for now) interchange with I-35W and I-820 in Fort Worth is really impressive. The flyover aesthetics are plain, but jeez, there are so many flyover ramps!
The aesthetics on many of texas' flyovers are lacking. Mixtures of weathering steel and concrete girders. Cantilevers in abundance. Square or rectangular columns instead of round or octagonal. Too many inlays and decorations. Box beams, as used in Arizona, Nevada, and California are better visually.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on November 24, 2018, 10:25:24 PM
The I-105/I-110 interchange in LA is impressive, but there are two things I don't like about it. 1: The aesthetics of the bridge pylons and bridge spans is pretty plain. 2: the NB I-110 movement to WB I-105 is a tight 25mph cloverleaf ramp.
The US-101/I-110 interchange in downtown is old, but still an icon of freeway design. Those three "beams" connecting the US-101 roadways at the top of the stack is unique to that interchange.
One of my favorite interchanges is I-95 in Springfield, VA at the Capital Beltway. It wasn't built in a state-of-the-art cast-segmental design. But complexity of the interchange and the roads leading into it (particularly I-95) is mind boggling. I think the interchange with US-1 and the Capital Beltway next to the Woodrow Wilson Bridge is pretty cool as well. It's not a freeway to freeway interchange, but the ramp designs pretty cool looking overhead. I-95 from South of Springfield on over to I-295 across the Potomac is an impressive drive (when it's not in a traffic jam that is).
Back in Texas, I think the recently completed (for now) interchange with I-35W and I-820 in Fort Worth is really impressive. The flyover aesthetics are plain, but jeez, there are so many flyover ramps!
I can forgive the plain Jane designs of the 105/110 interchange because for some reason it just works for me. That's the case with many California interchanges, IMO.
I agree with you about that cloverleaf. It needs to be flyover. Should that ever happen, it will be a tall and expansive one at that!
Quote from: DJStephensThe aesthetics on many of texas' flyovers are lacking. Mixtures of weathering steel and concrete girders. Cantilevers in abundance. Square or rectangular columns instead of round or octagonal. Too many inlays and decorations. Box beams, as used in Arizona, Nevada, and California are better visually.
Agreed for the most part. I don't mind the stars and other pieces of ornamentation on the bridge piers. It's better than just a plain Stonehenge-like block, which is all you get with a bunch of the new flyovers in Fort Worth. I wish Texas could build some interchanges more like the new I-10 & Loop 303 interchange. The pre-cast segmental bridge designs of that interchange yield a much cleaner and perhaps even elegant look. All the exposed straight beams of so many Texas flyovers makes the bridge curves jagged, heavy and clunky looking.
My guess is Texas follows that flyover construction design because is probably costs less. I think they want to build more directional interchanges rather than spend the same amount of money on fewer, yet better looking interchanges. I think the High Five Interchange in Dallas is still the only stack interchange in Texas that uses any pre-cast segmental bridge construction. It's really a hybrid of two bridge construction types. The usual method is applied on all the approach portions of the flyovers. The pre-cast segmental method is only used in the center of the interchange where the ramps overlap (and longer spans between piers is needed).
I had never significantly been to San Antonio before this weekend. It was a different experience for Texas freeways. Cloverleafs were the norm back when and many of them are still in use, particularly in downtown. It does appear that they are replacing them all over town with the more common (in Texas) flyovers. The replacements , though, are part of upgrades that go beyond the intersections, particularly adding lanes.
The thing that struck me as strangest in San Antonio was the stretch of 2X2 on I-410 in the southeast side of town.
Quote from: bwana39 on August 04, 2021, 12:17:23 PM
The thing that struck me as strangest in San Antonio was the stretch of 2X2 on I-410 in the southeast side of town.
Granted, I've only driven through there on the week-end, but the part from Rigsby Ave south to I-35 never struck me as particularly crowded.
Quote from: bwana39 on August 04, 2021, 12:17:23 PM
I had never significantly been to San Antonio before this weekend. It was a different experience for Texas freeways. Cloverleafs were the norm back when and many of them are still in use, particularly in downtown. It does appear that they are replacing them all over town with the more common (in Texas) flyovers. The replacements , though, are part of upgrades that go beyond the intersections, particularly adding lanes.
The thing that struck me as strangest in San Antonio was the stretch of 2X2 on I-410 in the southeast side of town.
There aren't cloverleafs downtown, unless you count the one at the eastern junction of I-10 and I-410. Two of them are what I call upside-down stacks. The south I-35 and I-10 interchange (https://goo.gl/maps/GjLCMcEkfsh3B2c39) and the I-37 and I-10 interchange (https://goo.gl/maps/jw6fMSh8UasnZDWE8)
Quote from: DJStephens on November 14, 2018, 09:46:52 AM
Quote from: thisdj78 on November 13, 2018, 05:17:36 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on November 07, 2018, 05:46:11 PM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on March 06, 2018, 09:57:23 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 05, 2018, 10:28:28 PM
I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.
Back when the southern I-35/410 interchange was built, that area was mainly rural but now the urban sprawl had beginned to reach up that area.
No San Antonio native but did spend twelve weeks at Ft. Sam Houston 25 years ago. The 410 loop is pretty far in, at least by today's standards. More of an inner loop. In hindsight perhaps it should been built farther out. It was probably all farmland in 1960, meaning 410's routing.
1604, once fully built out...will be the "outer loop"
C.W. Anderson Loop. Yes it should have been "built" out by now, and had a 3di shield slapped on it I-810. The northern section, just south of Camp Bullis has been limited access for close to twenty five to thirty years. What is the delay on the rest of it? Especially with all the funds the tex-dot has.
I would much rather see it be like I-235 or I-637.
Quote from: achilles765 on August 07, 2021, 11:08:00 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on November 14, 2018, 09:46:52 AM
Quote from: thisdj78 on November 13, 2018, 05:17:36 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on November 07, 2018, 05:46:11 PM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on March 06, 2018, 09:57:23 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 05, 2018, 10:28:28 PM
I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.
Back when the southern I-35/410 interchange was built, that area was mainly rural but now the urban sprawl had beginned to reach up that area.
No San Antonio native but did spend twelve weeks at Ft. Sam Houston 25 years ago. The 410 loop is pretty far in, at least by today's standards. More of an inner loop. In hindsight perhaps it should been built farther out. It was probably all farmland in 1960, meaning 410's routing.
1604, once fully built out...will be the "outer loop"
C.W. Anderson Loop. Yes it should have been "built" out by now, and had a 3di shield slapped on it I-810. The northern section, just south of Camp Bullis has been limited access for close to twenty five to thirty years. What is the delay on the rest of it? Especially with all the funds the tex-dot has.
I would much rather see it be like I-235 or I-637.
I-235 is for the current SH-45 when if becomes a full loop around Austin.
This topic is definitely veering into fictional territory... but if I had a pick for Loop 1604, as much as using an I-x35 would make more sense given the inner loop is an I-x10, I feel the outer loop is also deserving a I-x10 as well, given it serves as a bypass / outer route for I-10 through traffic, at least the portions that are freeway already.
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 08, 2021, 03:49:14 PM
This topic is definitely veering into fictional territory... but if I had a pick for Loop 1604, as much as using an I-x35 would make more sense given the inner loop is an I-x10, I feel the outer loop is also deserving a I-x10 as well, given it serves as a bypass / outer route for I-10 through traffic, at least the portions that are freeway already.
I really actually would prefer to see it be an x37 honestly. Interstate 837. I sincerely doubt I 37 will ever be extended north of San Antonio, but there is always a possibility of other x37 routes down around Corpus Christi, so 837 would fit.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 08, 2021, 03:06:18 PM
Quote from: achilles765 on August 07, 2021, 11:08:00 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on November 14, 2018, 09:46:52 AM
Quote from: thisdj78 on November 13, 2018, 05:17:36 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on November 07, 2018, 05:46:11 PM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on March 06, 2018, 09:57:23 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 05, 2018, 10:28:28 PM
I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.
Back when the southern I-35/410 interchange was built, that area was mainly rural but now the urban sprawl had beginned to reach up that area.
No San Antonio native but did spend twelve weeks at Ft. Sam Houston 25 years ago. The 410 loop is pretty far in, at least by today's standards. More of an inner loop. In hindsight perhaps it should been built farther out. It was probably all farmland in 1960, meaning 410's routing.
1604, once fully built out...will be the "outer loop"
C.W. Anderson Loop. Yes it should have been "built" out by now, and had a 3di shield slapped on it I-810. The northern section, just south of Camp Bullis has been limited access for close to twenty five to thirty years. What is the delay on the rest of it? Especially with all the funds the tex-dot has.
I would much rather see it be like I-235 or I-637.
I-235 is for the current SH-45 when if becomes a full loop around Austin.
Wouldn't it make more sense for that to be I-435? I-235 should be SH 130...
If toll roads like TX-130 or TX-44 and freeways like FM-1604 were ever going to be re-named as Interstate highways that would have already happened by now. I think chances are next to nothing for those super highways to ever carry Interstate route designations in the future. The same goes for various state-route freeways and toll roads in the DFW and Houston areas. I would even go so far to include the loop highways around Amarillo and Lubbock. It would make visual sense on a map for those routes to have Interstate shields. But Texas clearly doesn't want to do anything like that.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 15, 2021, 01:37:25 PM
If toll roads like TX-130 or TX-44 and freeways like FM-1604 were ever going to be re-named as Interstate highways that would have already happened by now. I think chances are next to nothing for those super highways to ever carry Interstate route designations in the future. The same goes for various state-route freeways and toll roads in the DFW and Houston areas. I would even go so far to include the loop highways around Amarillo and Lubbock. It would make visual sense on a map for those routes to have Interstate shields. But Texas clearly doesn't want to do anything like that.
44 isn't a toll road.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 15, 2021, 01:37:25 PM
If toll roads like TX-130 or TX-44 and freeways like FM-1604 were ever going to be re-named as Interstate highways that would have already happened by now. I think chances are next to nothing for those super highways to ever carry Interstate route designations in the future. The same goes for various state-route freeways and toll roads in the DFW and Houston areas. I would even go so far to include the loop highways around Amarillo and Lubbock. It would make visual sense on a map for those routes to have Interstate shields. But Texas clearly doesn't want to do anything like that.
The point I have tried to make on here for a couple of years minimum. The only reason ANY road in Texas has been labeled as an interstate is because of either edicts or restricted funding from Washington DC. If Texas were some states we would have run out of IH and 3DI numbers decades ago. Some people think there is something patently less about a road without an Interstate shield. The bottom line is it is just branding.
I was between jobs years ago, I worked in a plant that manufactured composite fireplace logs. The highest quality requirement was for the ones branded for a major US grocery chain. The name brand ones were in the middle quality wise. Just like the fireplace logs, having the better brand name on a highway does not necessarily mean it is better or even as good as one with a lesser moniker.
Quote from: bwana39 on August 15, 2021, 04:47:37 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 15, 2021, 01:37:25 PM
If toll roads like TX-130 or TX-44 and freeways like FM-1604 were ever going to be re-named as Interstate highways that would have already happened by now. I think chances are next to nothing for those super highways to ever carry Interstate route designations in the future. The same goes for various state-route freeways and toll roads in the DFW and Houston areas. I would even go so far to include the loop highways around Amarillo and Lubbock. It would make visual sense on a map for those routes to have Interstate shields. But Texas clearly doesn't want to do anything like that.
The point I have tried to make on here for a couple of years minimum. The only reason ANY road in Texas has been labeled as an interstate is because of either edicts or restricted funding from Washington DC. If Texas were some states we would have run out of IH and 3DI numbers decades ago. Some people think there is something patently less about a road without an Interstate shield. The bottom line is it is just branding.
I was between jobs years ago, I worked in a plant that manufactured composite fireplace logs. The highest quality requirement was for the ones branded for a major US grocery chain. The name brand ones were in the middle quality wise. Just like the fireplace logs, having the better brand name on a highway does not necessarily mean it is better or even as good as one with a lesser moniker.
I never thought it would make a better freeway than ones Texas makes without interstate designations. The one thing that the shield guarantees is Texas can't get cheep on it. Texas can't do what they always do and have 3-4 miles of freeway, then have a 2 mile stretch of "freeway" where they allow a few at-grade intersections before the freeway picks back up again. Having an interstate designation guarantees Texas can't do it half-assed. Yes, the lay-driver does see the interstate shield and knows it is a freeway for several hundred miles and they also know a US or state highway is bound to flux between freeway and crap road. It can be very frustrating driving on Texas roads for exactly that.
I have thought about your first point before. If Texas was more like Arkansas or Louisiana (putting interstate shields on almost every freeway) I think I-10 and I-20 both would have a complete set of 3dis throughout Texas.
Quote from: Thegeet44 isn't a toll road.
That was a typo. Given the context was Austin, I meant TX-45. And that is indeed a toll road.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14Having an interstate designation guarantees Texas can't do it half-assed.
I-35E going North of Dallas
with its narrow 11' wide lanes says hello.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 16, 2021, 12:40:03 PM
I never thought it would make a better freeway than ones Texas makes without interstate designations. The one thing that the shield guarantees is Texas can't get cheep on it. Texas can't do what they always do and have 3-4 miles of freeway, then have a 2 mile stretch of "freeway" where they allow a few at-grade intersections before the freeway picks back up again. Having an interstate designation guarantees Texas can't do it half-assed. Yes, the lay-driver does see the interstate shield and knows it is a freeway for several hundred miles and they also know a US or state highway is bound to flux between freeway and crap road. It can be very frustrating driving on Texas roads for exactly that.
Frustrating? I find it refreshing.
Just six weeks ago, I drove with my family and my parents down to Galveston and back. The only non-Interstate highway (other than the PGBT around Dallas and Beltway 8 around Houston) that we used was US-287 between Ennis and Waxahachie (both directions)–a highway that's a mix of freeway and expressway. Guess what was the
only highway of the entire trip that my mom mentioned being pleasant to drive on? Yep, US-287!
Everyone on our mission trips to Mexico who has done both the I-35 route through Laredo and the US-277 route through Del Rio agrees that I-35 is more frustrating and US-277 is more laid-back.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 16, 2021, 04:33:57 PM
Quote from: Thegeet44 isn't a toll road.
That was a typo. Given the context was Austin, I meant TX-45. And that is indeed a toll road.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14Having an interstate designation guarantees Texas can't do it half-assed.
I-35E going North of Dallas with its narrow 11' wide lanes says hello.
Mostly
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 16, 2021, 04:48:26 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 16, 2021, 04:33:57 PM
Quote from: Thegeet44 isn't a toll road.
That was a typo. Given the context was Austin, I meant TX-45. And that is indeed a toll road.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14Having an interstate designation guarantees Texas can't do it half-assed.
I-35E going North of Dallas with its narrow 11' wide lanes says hello.
Mostly
They mostly come out at night. Mostly.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14Mostly
On the bright side, in the case of I-35E between Dallas and Denton, the 11' wide lanes thing will be fixed once the next big phase of that expansion project is complete. I'll do my best to avoid that road until then however.
The downside is TX DOT has seemed to warm up to using those narrow lanes on other project designs. Some could end up being permanent.
The New Urbanist types like to sell people on narrow lanes (along with "road diets") as a
traffic calming measure. I don't think there is anything calming at all about feeling like you're just a twitch of the steering wheel away from trading paint with vehicles in adjacent lanes. Narrow lanes or not, people in Dallas don't tend to slow down.
Quote from: kphogerThe only non-Interstate highway (other than the PGBT around Dallas and Beltway 8 around Houston) that we used was US-287 between Ennis and Waxahachie (both directions)–a highway that's a mix of freeway and expressway. Guess what was the only highway of the entire trip that my mom mentioned being pleasant to drive on? Yep, US-287!
You guys must have gone through that stretch of US-287 at an off-peak time or something to find it "pleasant." I dislike all the at-grade intersections and driveways on US-287 starting at Heritage Parkway going down to Ennis. It's critical to be on the look-out for cars entering and leaving the highway. Not all the intersections have dedicated turn lanes. And vehicles entering US-287 don't have any kind of an entrance ramp. Someone driving like he is on an Interstate can suddenly be up on other vehicles not moving much faster than a dead stop.
A couple freeway construction projects along the way will eliminate the last couple traffic signals in that area once they're complete. Until then intersections with US-287, such as the Plainview Rd/Walnut Grove Rd intersection will be a major source of traffic tie-ups.
I personally want US-287 made 100% Interstate quality from the I-45 junction in Ennis up to at least US-380 in Decatur,
including a freeway upgrade THRU Decatur. TX DOT needs to get that done ASAP. Then they can work on US-287 between Decatur and Alford. Then there's the leg to connect to the existing freeway in Bowie. The farther West it goes the easier US-287 is to upgrade.
Bypasses around Chillicothe, Quanah, Childress, Memphis, Clarendon and Claude could be tricky though. But TX DOT was able to do some similar bypasses along US-277 between Wichita Falls and Abilene.
Quote from: kphoger on August 16, 2021, 04:41:59 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 16, 2021, 12:40:03 PM
I never thought it would make a better freeway than ones Texas makes without interstate designations. The one thing that the shield guarantees is Texas can't get cheep on it. Texas can't do what they always do and have 3-4 miles of freeway, then have a 2 mile stretch of "freeway" where they allow a few at-grade intersections before the freeway picks back up again. Having an interstate designation guarantees Texas can't do it half-assed. Yes, the lay-driver does see the interstate shield and knows it is a freeway for several hundred miles and they also know a US or state highway is bound to flux between freeway and crap road. It can be very frustrating driving on Texas roads for exactly that.
Frustrating? I find it refreshing.
Just six weeks ago, I drove with my family and my parents down to Galveston and back. The only non-Interstate highway (other than the PGBT around Dallas and Beltway 8 around Houston) that we used was US-287 between Ennis and Waxahachie (both directions)–a highway that's a mix of freeway and expressway. Guess what was the only highway of the entire trip that my mom mentioned being pleasant to drive on? Yep, US-287!
Everyone on our mission trips to Mexico who has done both the I-35 route through Laredo and the US-277 route through Del Rio agrees that I-35 is more frustrating and US-277 is more laid-back.
I will agree only with the caveat of this: Almost all the NFL games today are very close in score. 30 to 40 years ago, it was not uncommon to have a blow out. What happens is this, most novice, or even decent football fans look at the close games of today and say they are exciting. The truth is, the parity and watered down talent makes the games close, but the honest truth is, there is some really bad football being played. Those old NFL games with one team absolute killing the other was just pure domination of a really good football team, and hate to break it to the public, but domination is what the sport of football is about. So the reality is, those old boring blowouts were actually what football is supposed to look like and these new close games are really just two bad teams that can't figure out how to win (or one trying to lose and the other won't let them).
All this to say, yes, I-35 is more stressful, but only because it has more traffic. At least with all that traffic I don't have to worry about someone pulling in front of me from a driveway, side road, or deal with blind hills and curves on top of that traffic. I guess the point is, the masses look at I-35 and say, Ooo, bad. They look at some country 4-laner and say Ooo, good. The reality to that is, its actually the opposite. There are more safety features built in to I-35 than those crap U.S. highways. Like the perception above, yeah its more exciting and fun to drive, as long as no one is on the road. I-35 may have a lot of traffic, but any great highway will have the most traffic. That's kinda the trade off.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 18, 2021, 10:56:50 PM
On the bright side, in the case of I-35E between Dallas and Denton, the 11' wide lanes thing will be fixed once the next big phase of that expansion project is complete. I'll do my best to avoid that road until then however.
The downside is TX DOT has seemed to warm up to using those narrow lanes on other project designs. Some could end up being permanent.
The New Urbanist types like to sell people on narrow lanes (along with "road diets") as a traffic calming measure. I don't think there is anything calming at all about feeling like you're just a twitch of the steering wheel away from trading paint with vehicles in adjacent lanes. Narrow lanes or not, people in Dallas don't tend to slow down.
El Paso District also says hello. Quickie "widening" of I-10 on the E side of El Paso, decades overdue, was done by eliminating the L inside breakdown lane. Suspect lanes are also 11 feet wide there, as well. The quality and features of earlier late eighties/early nineties four lane upgrades that ended at McRae Blvd should have been extended E. Back then, there was more emphasis of proper design, and not frills.
^ I believe the ongoing (badly needed) widening of Loop 1604 in northern San Antonio from 4 to 10 lanes will involve reducing the lane widths from 12' to 11' in some areas in order to fit within the existing footprint as much as possible.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 18, 2021, 10:56:50 PM
The downside is TX DOT has seemed to warm up to using those narrow lanes on other project designs. Some could end up being permanent.
Not sure if this is new or has been in practice for awhile but it seems Caltrans has several proposals for reducing certain inner lanes to 11' in order to add more lanes(usually HOT) while keeping one or two outer lanes 12'. I'm not happy about that.
With the sheer amount of inattentive or distracted driving taking place these days, skinny lanes are a very very bad idea.
Texas highway man posted this clip showing the new ramp going from TX-151 eastbound to I-410 southbound at the upcoming stack of TX-151/I-410.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE2BsYD698I
^ This interchange messed me up before... before this new flyover opened, the overhead pull through signage said "I-410 North" then "I-410" without a directional, which made it seem like it went both... that turned out to not be the case. At least, until now.
Is Alamo Ranch Pkwy planned to be a freeway west of 1604 in the future? I've always wondered about the wide medians there.
They deliberately built-in the possibility for a future freeway by making the Alamo Ranch Parkway median as wide as it is. There is a great deal of retail and housing development activity in that area. Securing a freeway-sized median in a main surface arterial street is a good way to stay ahead of growth. I would kind of expect them to extend the Alamo Ranch Parkway surface street (and its big median) farther West to Talley Road.
The roadway that truly needs a freeway upgrade more than Alamo Ranch would be SH-16 between I-410 and Loop 1604. Obviously, however, right of way constraints make that a challenge. TxDOT, IIRC, is studying some improvements to the corridor though, including potential overpasses and elimination of some signals.
How is San Antonio paying for all this stuff without tolls? Hell, they're putting another deck on 16 miles of i-35, without tolls
Quote from: kernals12 on October 26, 2021, 10:38:26 AM
How is San Antonio paying for all this stuff without tolls? He'll, they're putting another deck on 16 miles of i-35, without tolls
The Chairman of the Texas Transportation Commission, Bruce Bugg, is from San Antonio. He is the dominant influence on the commission, and he can steer money to San Antonio. I don't know if San Antonio is getting more than its "fair share" or not.
Also, San Antonio doesn't have problems with project opposition. For example, I'm not aware of any opposition to the long elevated structures along I-35.
Big projects on deck are
Scheduled for March 2022: $285 million for a new interchange at IH-10 north @ Loop 1604 (https://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/let/2022/bexar.htm#007208144)
Scheduled for June 2023: $904 million for work on IH-35 in northeast San Antonio (https://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/let/2023/bexar.htm#001710168)
^^^^ so I don't live in Texas maybe my take is wrong but I've been under the impression that Dallas and Houston are TxDOT's pet cities and SA, Austin, and El Paso are usually put on the back burner.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 26, 2021, 10:26:17 PM
^^^^ so I don't live in Texas maybe my take is wrong but I've been under the impression that Dallas and Houston are TxDOT's pet cities and SA, Austin, and El Paso are usually put on the back burner.
I think that you miss the point. DFW and Houston are THAT MUCH bigger than ElPaso, Austin, and even San Antonio.
Quote from: bwana39 on October 26, 2021, 10:28:14 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 26, 2021, 10:26:17 PM
^^^^ so I don't live in Texas maybe my take is wrong but I've been under the impression that Dallas and Houston are TxDOT's pet cities and SA, Austin, and El Paso are usually put on the back burner.
I think that you miss the point. DFW and Houston are THAT MUCH bigger than ElPaso, Austin, and even San Antonio.
No I get that but keeping things in perspective the other cities have their needs too and they're being neglected. Dallas and Houston aren't.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 26, 2021, 11:24:36 PM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 26, 2021, 10:28:14 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 26, 2021, 10:26:17 PM
^^^^ so I don't live in Texas maybe my take is wrong but I've been under the impression that Dallas and Houston are TxDOT's pet cities and SA, Austin, and El Paso are usually put on the back burner.
I think that you miss the point. DFW and Houston are THAT MUCH bigger than ElPaso, Austin, and even San Antonio.
No I get that but keeping things in perspective the other cities have their needs too and they're being neglected. Dallas and Houston aren't.
Compared to DFW, everywhere in the state is being left behind. In the last 10-15 years, DFW has gotten
1. The Express lanes along 183, 121, IH 35E, 635, Loop 12, IH 820, 114, IH 35W. Including long elevated stretches, direct connections between express lanes, express lanes on their LOOPS and secondary freeways, and ramps from one freeway's express lanes to individual exits that bypass the mainlines
2. The 360 toll road, Patriot Parkway, Chisolm Trail Parkway, 183, 114, 121, parts of Loop 12 made full freeway
3. Massive rebuilds of IH 35E and IH 35W, and of IH 30
4. expansions of most of the main freeways
Meanwhile, all Houston has gotten is Grand Parkway, 249, some Interstate shields thrown up on 59, and express lanes on 288.
We need Express lanes (elevated if need be) on IH 10 from the loop to downtown, on the West Loop from 290 to South Post Oak, on 249, we need 249 made full freeway to IH 45, we need the SH 35 freeway built, either the IH 45 rebuild or some version of it, an extension of Hardy into downtown and up to Conroe, and one more east-west freeway route in the far North between FM 1488 and SH 105..maybe even a full freeway Loop 336.
Quote from: achilles765 on October 27, 2021, 12:03:45 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 26, 2021, 11:24:36 PM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 26, 2021, 10:28:14 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 26, 2021, 10:26:17 PM
^^^^ so I don't live in Texas maybe my take is wrong but I've been under the impression that Dallas and Houston are TxDOT's pet cities and SA, Austin, and El Paso are usually put on the back burner.
I think that you miss the point. DFW and Houston are THAT MUCH bigger than ElPaso, Austin, and even San Antonio.
No I get that but keeping things in perspective the other cities have their needs too and they're being neglected. Dallas and Houston aren't.
Compared to DFW, everywhere in the state is being left behind. In the last 10-15 years, DFW has gotten
1. The Express lanes along 183, 121, IH 35E, 635, Loop 12, IH 820, 114, IH 35W. Including long elevated stretches, direct connections between express lanes, express lanes on their LOOPS and secondary freeways, and ramps from one freeway's express lanes to individual exits that bypass the mainlines
2. The 360 toll road, Patriot Parkway, Chisolm Trail Parkway, 183, 114, 121, parts of Loop 12 made full freeway
3. Massive rebuilds of IH 35E and IH 35W, and of IH 30
4. expansions of most of the main freeways
Meanwhile, all Houston has gotten is Grand Parkway, 249, some Interstate shields thrown up on 59, and express lanes on 288.
We need Express lanes (elevated if need be) on IH 10 from the loop to downtown, on the West Loop from 290 to South Post Oak, on 249, we need 249 made full freeway to IH 45, we need the SH 35 freeway built, either the IH 45 rebuild or some version of it, an extension of Hardy into downtown and up to Conroe, and one more east-west freeway route in the far North between FM 1488 and SH 105..maybe even a full freeway Loop 336.
Is the Katy Freeway widening chopped liver to you?
Quote from: achilles765 on October 27, 2021, 12:03:45 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 26, 2021, 11:24:36 PM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 26, 2021, 10:28:14 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 26, 2021, 10:26:17 PM
^^^^ so I don't live in Texas maybe my take is wrong but I've been under the impression that Dallas and Houston are TxDOT's pet cities and SA, Austin, and El Paso are usually put on the back burner.
I think that you miss the point. DFW and Houston are THAT MUCH bigger than ElPaso, Austin, and even San Antonio.
No I get that but keeping things in perspective the other cities have their needs too and they're being neglected. Dallas and Houston aren't.
Compared to DFW, everywhere in the state is being left behind. In the last 10-15 years, DFW has gotten
1. The Express lanes along 183, 121, IH 35E, 635, Loop 12, IH 820, 114, IH 35W. Including long elevated stretches, direct connections between express lanes, express lanes on their LOOPS and secondary freeways, and ramps from one freeway's express lanes to individual exits that bypass the mainlines
2. The 360 toll road, Patriot Parkway, Chisolm Trail Parkway, 183, 114, 121, parts of Loop 12 made full freeway
3. Massive rebuilds of IH 35E and IH 35W, and of IH 30
4. expansions of most of the main freeways
Meanwhile, all Houston has gotten is Grand Parkway, 249, some Interstate shields thrown up on 59, and express lanes on 288.
We need Express lanes (elevated if need be) on IH 10 from the loop to downtown, on the West Loop from 290 to South Post Oak, on 249, we need 249 made full freeway to IH 45, we need the SH 35 freeway built, either the IH 45 rebuild or some version of it, an extension of Hardy into downtown and up to Conroe, and one more east-west freeway route in the far North between FM 1488 and SH 105..maybe even a full freeway Loop 336.
Almost every major freeway in Houston has been worked on in some part over the past 10 to 20 years.