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Author Topic: New York State Thruway  (Read 495974 times)

empirestate

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2550 on: November 30, 2021, 10:57:58 AM »

There is one thing worse than driving the Thruway along Lake Erie in winter: driving roads other than the Thruway along Lake Erie in winter.  The difference in the level of plowing is stark.

In my experience, this is not limited to along Lake Erie.  Replace "Lake Erie" with "the Hudson Valley" in your statement and it would be just as valid.

The difference in plowing may exist everywhere, but the Hudson Valley is not nearly so nasty in winter as the Lake Erie snowbelt (or even the Lake Ontario snowbelt, for that matter).

I would disagree.  As webny noted, there's a different variety of nastiness in the Hudson Valley.  Sure, the lake-effect off the lakes is significant in its quantity, but it's also very predictable.  Hudson Valley, as with northern PA and here in Vermont, is more prone to snow squalls which are more sudden, less predictable, and deadlier than lake effect snow.


Having lived in both regions, my observation is that the Hudson Valley in general seems less prepared for winter weather when it does arrive—as if they consider the region to have a milder climate, and weren't necessarily expecting heavy snow.

Then again, I've also noticed that WNY also seems less prepared for winter each year than I perceive it to have done when I was younger, so there's that.
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vdeane

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2551 on: November 30, 2021, 12:57:33 PM »

The region does have a milder climate than out west.  Albany gets about half the annual snowfall as Rochester, for example.  Snow maps in the Capital District can be interesting - several inches in the higher terrain with coatings or small totals (sometimes even nothing) in the valley.  Of course, we're also far enough north that we usually get clipped by nor'easters rather than get hit head on.

I can't say I've had much issue with the Thruway or any state roads south of here.  Just avoid driving when a nor'easter is coming through or a major cross-country storm is making its way across.  Along the Great Lakes, not only does it snow more, it snows more often making even finding a clear day more of a challenge in and of itself.  Pretty much anywhere is going to get hairy in the middle of a storm.
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kalvado

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2552 on: November 30, 2021, 01:50:56 PM »

The region does have a milder climate than out west.  Albany gets about half the annual snowfall as Rochester, for example.  Snow maps in the Capital District can be interesting - several inches in the higher terrain with coatings or small totals (sometimes even nothing) in the valley.  Of course, we're also far enough north that we usually get clipped by nor'easters rather than get hit head on.

I can't say I've had much issue with the Thruway or any state roads south of here.  Just avoid driving when a nor'easter is coming through or a major cross-country storm is making its way across.  Along the Great Lakes, not only does it snow more, it snows more often making even finding a clear day more of a challenge in and of itself.  Pretty much anywhere is going to get hairy in the middle of a storm.
Albany is in the closed valley, which makes a lot of difference. Since we're talking Thruway in Hudson valley, Saugerties may be a good point of comparison.
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empirestate

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2553 on: November 30, 2021, 04:14:20 PM »

The region does have a milder climate than out west.

It does, especially NYC and the island, which are moderated by the ocean—and that effect extends inland somewhat. But I mean that they think it's milder than it actually is, perhaps because they assume the moderating effect extends farther from the coast than it does.

I would describe it as similar to the reaction whenever tornadoes threaten the tri-state area. While tornadoes are relatively scarce here, the public reaction often seems as if they believe them to be impossible.
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vdeane

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2554 on: December 12, 2021, 05:38:12 PM »

The Thruway installed some additional signs at the interchanges, including some interesting exit advance signs when leaving the Thruway:
https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i490&state=NY&file=102_2726.JPG
https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i90a&state=NY&file=102_2785.JPG
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MikeCL

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2555 on: December 14, 2021, 08:48:54 PM »

Looks like the New England Thruway's "Last Mile" construction project has been completed. 

And, from the people that brought you "Bryam"....
There's a Facebook post on the Thruway's FB page that shows the new signage on the ramp from I-95 South to I-287 West.  On the ramp, there's a split for Midland Ave and I-287, however the I-287 pull-through lacks an I-287 shield.  Instead, it just says "Cross Westchester Expy/White Plains/Gov Mario M Cuomo Br". 

Looks like there's some new diagrammatic SB signage for the I-95 South to I-287 exit.  Did they put one of these up in CT as well, to replace the existing Exit 21 1 mile advance?
Something I’ve been wondering why is the NY/Conn signage on the bridge on the NB side anymore? It’s been missing at least 3 years.
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Great Lakes Roads

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2556 on: December 22, 2021, 10:04:18 PM »

https://buffalochronicle.com/2021/12/22/hochul-will-fund-construction-of-ten-new-thruway-exits-including-at-least-two-in-western-new-york/

Does this mean that the Thruway will receive new mile-based exit numbers if these new exits get built?  :hmmm:
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cl94

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2557 on: December 22, 2021, 10:08:25 PM »

https://buffalochronicle.com/2021/12/22/hochul-will-fund-construction-of-ten-new-thruway-exits-including-at-least-two-in-western-new-york/

Does this mean that the Thruway will receive new mile-based exit numbers if these new exits get built?  :hmmm:

I need another source. The Buffalo Chronicle is best known for pushing out a ton of fake news about the 2019 Canadian election, as well as discredited domestic stories. Seriously, the list I could link to is a mile long.
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Dannny

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2558 on: January 28, 2022, 11:01:59 PM »

Question, when traveling southbound on the Thruway, (while it's still I-90), coming up on exit 24, there's a Mass Pike shield on the right, (and top) of the gantry indicating that to get to the Mass pike, you should stay on the Thruway to the Berkshire spur, which would lead back to I-90, becoming the Mass Pike.
My question is, for people traveling southbound coming up on exit 24, wouldn't it be more logical to keep left, stay on I-90, which become the Pike anyway?  I mean on google maps its just about, (almost exactly) the same distance (and time) to stay on I-90 then it is to keep right on the Thruway to the Berkshire connection. Actually, I think its even a bit shorter to stay on I-90 VS the Thruway. For me personally, If I was unfamiliar with the routes, I'd prefer to stay on I-90 the whole way, rather then hop onto the Thruway, I-87, then onto the Berkshire spur. This just seems less direct and more of a way for newcomers to get lost/potentially miss the Berkshire spur. Does anyone know why its the way it is?

Google maps photo link:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7075426,-73.8595179,3a,55.1y,135.95h,108.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stA0pxpLBJ2FmSVPA3zPYhw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 11:09:17 PM by Dannny »
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Rothman

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2559 on: January 28, 2022, 11:08:13 PM »

Question, when traveling southbound on the Thruway, (while it's still I-90), coming up on exit 24, there's a Mass Pike shield on the right, (and top) of the gantry indicating that to get to the Mass pike, you should stay on the Thruway to the Berkshire spur, which would lead back to I-90, becoming the Mass Pike.
My question is, for people traveling southbound coming up on exit 24, wouldn't it be more logical to keep left, stay on I-90, which become the Pike anyway?  I mean on google maps its exactly the same distance (and time) to stay on I-90 then it is to keep right on the Thurway to the Berkshire connection. Its not like one is 20 miles out of the way. For me personally, If I was unfamiliar with the routes, I'd prefer to stay on I-90 the whole way, rather then hop onto the Thruway, I-87, then onto the Berkshire spur. This just seems less direct and more of a way for newcomers to get lost/potentially miss the Berkshire spur. Does anyone know why its the way it is?

Google maps photo link:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7075426,-73.8595179,3a,55.1y,135.95h,108.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stA0pxpLBJ2FmSVPA3zPYhw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Google Maps used to lead you the way that it thought was quicker (Thruway is 65 mph the entire way).  Now, if you don't mess with it, it'll send you the most "fuel efficient" way.

Given that the Castleton-on-Hudson Bridge is always under construction anyway, it is probably a draw with either way you go.
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lstone19

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2560 on: January 28, 2022, 11:16:15 PM »

Question, when traveling southbound on the Thruway, (while it's still I-90), coming up on exit 24, there's a Mass Pike shield on the right, (and top) of the gantry indicating that to get to the Mass pike, you should stay on the Thruway to the Berkshire spur, which would lead back to I-90, becoming the Mass Pike.
My question is, for people traveling southbound coming up on exit 24, wouldn't it be more logical to keep left, stay on I-90, which become the Pike anyway?  I mean on google maps its exactly the same distance (and time) to stay on I-90 then it is to keep right on the Thurway to the Berkshire connection. Its not like one is 20 miles out of the way. For me personally, If I was unfamiliar with the routes, I'd prefer to stay on I-90 the whole way, rather then hop onto the Thruway, I-87, then onto the Berkshire spur. This just seems less direct and more of a way for newcomers to get lost/potentially miss the Berkshire spur. Does anyone know why its the way it is?

First, it's in the Thruway's financial interest to have people stay on the Thruway.

Second, the Thruway predates the Interstate Highway System and pre-dates I-90 through Albany. So there's a lot of historical precedent to suggesting through traffic stay on the Thruway. For those (like me) who think of it being the Thruway primary and I-90 secondary, all Thruway is the more intuitive way to go.

Third, Exit 24 from the Thruway eastbound (not southbound at that point) has only been a high-speed exit relatively recently. As built, both 24 and B1 for that movement were slow-speed trumpets.

Fourth, prior to EZ-Pass and later cashless tolling, exiting at 24 and then re-entering meant stopping to pay at 24 and stopping again at B1 to get a new ticket.

Fifth, I-90 through Albany has characteristics of an urban freeway. Given equal distance between the two routes, the all-Thruway route should be somewhat faster.

That all said, the very few times I've gone through there, I went I-90 exiting/entering at 24 and B1. And while the left exit at 24 for I-90 eastbound might make the route more obvious for some, the old-style exit right for I-90 at B1 when going west is not at all obvious to the unfamiliar motorist.
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roadman65

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2561 on: January 28, 2022, 11:27:21 PM »

The I-87 Northway does sign Boston via the free I-90 over the toll road at the very same exchange.  That is because NYSDOT signs that and not NYSTA and like the toll road bureaucracy keeping folks on their own ditto for the state road agency.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2562 on: January 28, 2022, 11:32:49 PM »

Question, when traveling southbound on the Thruway, (while it's still I-90), coming up on exit 24, there's a Mass Pike shield on the right, (and top) of the gantry indicating that to get to the Mass pike, you should stay on the Thruway to the Berkshire spur, which would lead back to I-90, becoming the Mass Pike.
My question is, for people traveling southbound coming up on exit 24, wouldn't it be more logical to keep left, stay on I-90, which become the Pike anyway?  I mean on google maps its exactly the same distance (and time) to stay on I-90 then it is to keep right on the Thurway to the Berkshire connection. Its not like one is 20 miles out of the way. For me personally, If I was unfamiliar with the routes, I'd prefer to stay on I-90 the whole way, rather then hop onto the Thruway, I-87, then onto the Berkshire spur. This just seems less direct and more of a way for newcomers to get lost/potentially miss the Berkshire spur. Does anyone know why its the way it is?

Google maps photo link:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7075426,-73.8595179,3a,55.1y,135.95h,108.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stA0pxpLBJ2FmSVPA3zPYhw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Google Maps used to lead you the way that it thought was quicker (Thruway is 65 mph the entire way).  Now, if you don't mess with it, it'll send you the most "fuel efficient" way.

Given that the Castleton-on-Hudson Bridge is always under construction anyway, it is probably a draw with either way you go.

I'm sure the signage is to encourage travelers to use the all-toll route to the Berkshire Connector rather than the free stretch of I-90 through Albany.
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Rothman

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2563 on: January 28, 2022, 11:33:55 PM »

Question, when traveling southbound on the Thruway, (while it's still I-90), coming up on exit 24, there's a Mass Pike shield on the right, (and top) of the gantry indicating that to get to the Mass pike, you should stay on the Thruway to the Berkshire spur, which would lead back to I-90, becoming the Mass Pike.
My question is, for people traveling southbound coming up on exit 24, wouldn't it be more logical to keep left, stay on I-90, which become the Pike anyway?  I mean on google maps its exactly the same distance (and time) to stay on I-90 then it is to keep right on the Thurway to the Berkshire connection. Its not like one is 20 miles out of the way. For me personally, If I was unfamiliar with the routes, I'd prefer to stay on I-90 the whole way, rather then hop onto the Thruway, I-87, then onto the Berkshire spur. This just seems less direct and more of a way for newcomers to get lost/potentially miss the Berkshire spur. Does anyone know why its the way it is?

Google maps photo link:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7075426,-73.8595179,3a,55.1y,135.95h,108.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stA0pxpLBJ2FmSVPA3zPYhw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Google Maps used to lead you the way that it thought was quicker (Thruway is 65 mph the entire way).  Now, if you don't mess with it, it'll send you the most "fuel efficient" way.

Given that the Castleton-on-Hudson Bridge is always under construction anyway, it is probably a draw with either way you go.

I'm sure the signage is to encourage travelers to use the all-toll route to the Berkshire Connector rather than the free stretch of I-90 through Albany.
Sure.
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empirestate

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2564 on: January 29, 2022, 12:21:47 AM »

You really want to think of it in terms of the roads themselves, rather than their numbers. From that standpoint, to go to Boston you stay on the Thruway, then "turn left" onto the Berkshire Spur (of the Thruway). Simple as that. On the other hand, if you want to go through Albany, you get off onto the freeway that goes through Albany.

In the end, though, yeah—it's pretty much a wash either way. The reason to take the route through Albany is because you want to go through Albany. The reason to follow I-90 is because you want to follow I-90. Or, the reason to take the Thruway route is because you want to use the Thruway. And naturally, this is the perspective of the Thruway people, so that's how they sign it. (You can ascribe as nefarious or as innocent a motivation to this as you want; but the reality invariably lies at neither extreme.)
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cl94

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2565 on: January 29, 2022, 12:32:04 AM »

It should be noted that there have been pushes over the years at multiple levels to try and keep through traffic on the Thruway to reduce congestion in Albany. At least one of these involved moving I-90 to the Berkshire Spur and redesignating the current free segment as I-88 or an x87. This, of course, never happened due to the Castleton Bridge not meeting Interstate standards. The Berkshire Spur has a crapton of extra capacity and I-90 through Albany is prone to congestion, so it is a logical move to make.
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lstone19

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2566 on: January 29, 2022, 12:35:17 AM »

Also consider that the Interstate Highway System, as originally intended, was to go through cities. For many cities, it was expected that through traffic would follow a three-digit loop interstate around that city. That didn't always happen, particularly when interstates were routed on pre-existing toll roads which already did not go through the heart of cities (hence I-90 being the bypass of Syracuse and Rochester).

There are very few interstates, if I was going from end to end, that I would not leave for a bypass route depending on time of day and traffic conditions. If I were driving I-90 from Boston to Seattle, I might leave it for Albany, likely for Cleveland, and almost certainly for Chicago.

So to expect that through traffic should stay on the numbered route goes against the original design.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2567 on: January 29, 2022, 01:14:25 AM »

I’m pretty sure the interstate system was modeled after Germany's highway system to go around cities not through them. But I like that they go through them personally.
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lstone19

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2568 on: January 29, 2022, 02:38:40 AM »

I’m pretty sure the interstate system was modeled after Germany's highway system to go around cities not through them. But I like that they go through them personally.
What would lead you to that conclusion? Most were originally planned to go through cities although many were subsequently rerouted around after resistance to through the city routes developed. For instance, I-95 was supposed to go through Boston and through Washington; at some places, where it exits to the loop routes around those cities contain vestiges of the planned through the city route (plus there’s I-95 through Philadelphia when the NJ Turnpike would have been a more logical “around the city” routing. I-90 goes through Cleveland on a sub-standard highway and through Chicago. I-80 used to go through Sacramento on a sub-standard highway meeting I-5 downtown before being re-rerouted on what used to be bypass route I-880 (changed in the late 80s IIRC). I-55, I-70, and I-64 all used to meet to cross the Mississippi River on one bridge leading right into downtown St. Louis, I-70 even going out of its way to reach downtown.

As I mentioned above, the major exception is when interstates were routed via pre-existing toll roads that already bypassed cities. And when you look at it, the Thruway did a good job of getting near major cities without entering them so that there was little reason to leave the Thruway. But NYS decided to build I-90 to the other side of Albany, perhaps because it was the one place where the Thruway geometry made sense to do so (a separate state built I-90 around Syracuse or Rochester would make no sense - they could have routed I-90 through them but there would be much less reason to leave the Thruway at those two cities than there is at Albany).


iPad
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roadman65

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2569 on: January 29, 2022, 11:00:20 AM »

I’m pretty sure the interstate system was modeled after Germany's highway system to go around cities not through them. But I like that they go through them personally.
What would lead you to that conclusion? Most were originally planned to go through cities although many were subsequently rerouted around after resistance to through the city routes developed. For instance, I-95 was supposed to go through Boston and through Washington; at some places, where it exits to the loop routes around those cities contain vestiges of the planned through the city route (plus there’s I-95 through Philadelphia when the NJ Turnpike would have been a more logical “around the city” routing. I-90 goes through Cleveland on a sub-standard highway and through Chicago. I-80 used to go through Sacramento on a sub-standard highway meeting I-5 downtown before being re-rerouted on what used to be bypass route I-880 (changed in the late 80s IIRC). I-55, I-70, and I-64 all used to meet to cross the Mississippi River on one bridge leading right into downtown St. Louis, I-70 even going out of its way to reach downtown.

As I mentioned above, the major exception is when interstates were routed via pre-existing toll roads that already bypassed cities. And when you look at it, the Thruway did a good job of getting near major cities without entering them so that there was little reason to leave the Thruway. But NYS decided to build I-90 to the other side of Albany, perhaps because it was the one place where the Thruway geometry made sense to do so (a separate state built I-90 around Syracuse or Rochester would make no sense - they could have routed I-90 through them but there would be much less reason to leave the Thruway at those two cities than there is at Albany).


iPad


Keep in mind I-80 was to leave the Ohio Turnpike in metro Cleveland to return to it later on as I-480 was to be the original I-80 until it made sense to someone to just leave it on the toll road and make I-480 the free route.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2570 on: January 29, 2022, 12:00:54 PM »

I-80 in Illinois does the same. It serves Chicago, but bypasses the city to the south.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2571 on: January 29, 2022, 12:02:43 PM »

I-90 in Chicago was later changed to stay more in Downtown as the I-290 alignment was originally I-90.  Aligning it on the Kennedy Expressway kept it more in urban environments than being on the Ike.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2572 on: January 29, 2022, 12:06:18 PM »

It should be noted that there have been pushes over the years at multiple levels to try and keep through traffic on the Thruway to reduce congestion in Albany. At least one of these involved moving I-90 to the Berkshire Spur and redesignating the current free segment as I-88 or an x87. This, of course, never happened due to the Castleton Bridge not meeting Interstate standards. The Berkshire Spur has a crapton of extra capacity and I-90 through Albany is prone to congestion, so it is a logical move to make.

Not to get too far into fictional territory, but I would certainly support this. I think an I-X90 makes a lot more sense than an I-X87. The I-X90's are of course all in use currently, but if I-99 was extended to Rochester, I-390 would be available.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2573 on: January 29, 2022, 12:21:09 PM »

It should be noted that there have been pushes over the years at multiple levels to try and keep through traffic on the Thruway to reduce congestion in Albany. At least one of these involved moving I-90 to the Berkshire Spur and redesignating the current free segment as I-88 or an x87. This, of course, never happened due to the Castleton Bridge not meeting Interstate standards. The Berkshire Spur has a crapton of extra capacity and I-90 through Albany is prone to congestion, so it is a logical move to make.

Not to get too far into fictional territory, but I would certainly support this. I think an I-X90 makes a lot more sense than an I-X87. The I-X90's are of course all in use currently, but if I-99 was extended to Rochester, I-390 would be available.

One solution would be to extend I-890 east of Thruway exit 25 to also be what's now I-90 from 24 to B1. There is precedent for a 3di multiplexed with its parent 2di - I-580 which is multiplexed with I-80 between Oakland and Richmond, CA.
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Sam

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2574 on: January 29, 2022, 04:44:59 PM »

One solution would be to extend I-890 east of Thruway exit 25 to also be what's now I-90 from 24 to B1. There is precedent for a 3di multiplexed with its parent 2di - I-580 which is multiplexed with I-80 between Oakland and Richmond, CA.

Or I-287, which is multiplexed with I-87 between Elmsford and Suffern, NY :)
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