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[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah hopefully they can add a frontage road.

[rte66man]

This was really a shitty thing to do. Take a road that was a city street and build a turnpike on top of it. They should have built a frontage road.

In the 70's when I244 was built down to I44, the stub end of the Gilcrease was built west over SW Blvd and the railroad over to 51st St. It ended there for many years. When TCC built their West campus on 41st, the street in question was built (about 1990 IIRC). I did not remember that the city built it but I may be mistaken. If the State built it, then they have every right to do with it whatever they want. The Legislature gave OTA authority to conduct a feasibility study during the 2010 session. It also said they could proceed to build it without additional Legislative approval.

[swake]

I don't know who built the road from 51st to 41st, but it's not in the city of Tulsa or in Sand Springs. Most of the turnpike is in Berryhill, which is an unincorporated area in Tulsa County between the two cities, I don't know why it never incorporated as a town or city or was annexed into Tulsa or Sand Springs but Berryhill does have its own school district.   

The new turnpike doesn't enter the city of Tulsa until you get to the river. The next extension planned to go north of US-412 will be in Tulsa but very little of this turnpike is.

[Scott5114]

This was really a shitty thing to do. Take a road that was a city street and build a turnpike on top of it. They should have built a frontage road.

In the 70's when I244 was built down to I44, the stub end of the Gilcrease was built west over SW Blvd and the railroad over to 51st St. It ended there for many years. When TCC built their West campus on 41st, the street in question was built (about 1990 IIRC). I did not remember that the city built it but I may be mistaken. If the State built it, then they have every right to do with it whatever they want. The Legislature gave OTA authority to conduct a feasibility study during the 2010 session. It also said they could proceed to build it without additional Legislative approval.

I mean, they have every legal right. But the populace doesn't have to agree that it was fair or the right thing to do. In other states, that sort of thing tends to result in legislators' careers ending prematurely.

[sprjus4]

Yeah hopefully they can add a frontage road.

Or just simply not collect tolls between the two exits.

A frontage road would be more costly.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah hopefully they can add a frontage road.

Or just simply not collect tolls between the two exits.

A frontage road would be more costly.

Yeah that’s a good idea as well.

[The Ghostbuster]

When/if the Gilcrease Turnpike is fully completed, will the OK 11 segment between US 75 and Interstate 244 be decommissioned and renumbered as OK 344, or will the 344 designation terminate at US 75?

[swake]

When/if the Gilcrease Turnpike is fully completed, will the OK 11 segment between US 75 and Interstate 244 be decommissioned and renumbered as OK 344, or will the 344 designation terminate at US 75?

What the state should do is move OK-11 over to the LL Tisdale Parkway.

[will_e_777]

that's an expensive oof:

"Tulsa police said around 11:45 a.m. a dump truck was traveling eastbound on Highway 412 with the back loader raised up, that hit the traffic sign that going across Highway 412."

https://www.newson6.com/story/627e8da58f80ee7ef761a199/highway-412-closed-at-49th-w-ave-after-highway-sign-falls-on-semitrailer

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://www.krmg.com/news/gilcrease-expressway-extension-be-toll-road-despite-residents-concerns/JFTBIMIYNBDBFEKWY5EI5PH3FE/

Despite the residents' concern, the Gilcrease Expressway Extension from 51st Street to US 412 is going to be a toll road.

[Scott5114]

Well, yeah. Since when has residents being concerned about anything ever stopped the state of Oklahoma?

[1]

Well, yeah. Since when has residents being concerned about anything ever stopped the state of Oklahoma?

Dallas-Kansas City upgrade via US 75 and US 69?

[Plutonic Panda]

The only option is a residential discount which I’m guessing will not happen. Maybe somehow local leaders can build a new four lane road to “entice” development in the area and provide a free road connection. Still a new bridge over the river won’t be cheap.

[sprjus4]

“The moment OTA becomes involved… OTA doesn’t use… in terms of maintenance and such, they don’t use tax-funded money.”

Poling said they will leave the section the new road from I-44 to 51st street untolled, but they simply can’t afford to leave any longer stretch available to use for free.

The second quote contradicts the first quote entirely.

And for what it’s worth, truly, how much are they “losing” by allowing local traffic to go one more exit? Likely not much… they are just creating more issues than solving here.

[Scott5114]

“The moment OTA becomes involved… OTA doesn’t use… in terms of maintenance and such, they don’t use tax-funded money.”

Poling said they will leave the section the new road from I-44 to 51st street untolled, but they simply can’t afford to leave any longer stretch available to use for free.

The second quote contradicts the first quote entirely.

And for what it’s worth, truly, how much are they “losing” by allowing local traffic to go one more exit? Likely not much… they are just creating more issues than solving here.

Eh, it's not really a contradiction. OTA could theoretically use only toll money to pay for maintenance on a section of road for which no tolls are collected. (KTA does this on MP 0-4 of the Kansas Turnpike, for example.)

[sprjus4]

^ Exactly, so them saying that not tolling that portion would require tax-funded money is moot. They can not toll it yet still maintain it with revenue collected on the rest of the facility.

Much like they are doing on that small free portion west of I-44.

[Plutonic Panda]

From Tulsa world:

Construction on the Gilcrease Expressway bridges over the Arkansas River is pictured in January, looking south from the north side of the river near 57th West Avenue and Charles Page Boulevard.

OKLAHOMA CITY — Toll rates for the soon-to-be opened Gilcrease Expressway extension could be set July 26.

Transportation Secretary Tim Gatz was asked Tuesday about the project during the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority meeting.

Gatz said the toll road is expected to open in mid-to late summer.

“I think it is going along pretty well,” he said. “We will have an item in front of the board sometime between now and the July meeting — looking like the July meeting — talking about the final tolling configuration.”

He said the OTA has gotten feedback from members of the Berryhill community.

Berryhill-area residents told the OTA in April that elimination the toll on the section of the highway between 41st Street and 51st Street was a top priority. That section had been free since completion but will have a toll as soon as the rest of the five-mile turnpike is opened to traffic.

People are also reading…


“We are looking at options and looking at reducing the toll rate as much as we can,” said James Poling, an OTA spokesman. “Under the current funding mechanism, it has to be tolled.”

Poling said no price range is available for the four sections of the new road that will be tolled.

He said the OTA is considering a lot of factors and considering how best to keep the rates low while meeting its financial obligations.

The OTA undertook the project at the invitation of a lot of different parties, including the city of Tulsa, Tulsa County and the Indian Nations Council of Governments, Gatz said. He said the parties needed a plan to leverage resources to build one of the most expensive sections of highway in Oklahoma.

The $330 million, five-mile turnpike has 22 bridges, including several large ones over the Arkansas River, Gatz noted.

It will complete the gap from where the existing Gilcrease Expressway connects to Interstate 44 just south of 51st Street in west Tulsa to just north of U.S. 412 — the Sand Springs Expressway — at Edison Street west of downtown Tulsa. All of the roads that will connect to the turnpike are free roads.

Construction of the roadway began Jan. 30, 2020.

- https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/turnpike-authority-to-consider-gilcrease-expressway-tolls-in-july/article_2f80b466-db8e-11ec-a764-67e352c9c70c.html

This really isn’t a good move by the OTA. You’d think with the controversy regarding the new plan they could use a little good PR and it wouldn’t cost them that much. Out of all the traffic using it how much is from this local connection that would be free to use? They wouldn’t lose that much.

[sprjus4]

^ Exactly, and most of the local traffic will avoid the Turnpike altogether. They are basically losing nothing making it free there.

[tulsaweather]

https://7c259589-b918-42de-94bb-b1425caeeba7.filesusr.com/ugd/7181a5_69ea50c29c9b430daa59ddad4ee1d339.pdf

It seems weird (and inadequate) that the northern interchange with US-412 is a standard diamond, and not a full three-legged interchange.

[Plutonic Panda]

https://7c259589-b918-42de-94bb-b1425caeeba7.filesusr.com/ugd/7181a5_69ea50c29c9b430daa59ddad4ee1d339.pdf

It seems weird (and inadequate) that the northern interchange with US-412 is a standard diamond, and not a full three-legged interchange.

Money and Oklahoma doing things on the cheap. It doesn’t show anything different on the Access Oklahoma plan so it looks we’re getting a typical diamond interchange for a freeway to freeway connection for a cool minute.

[bugo]

https://7c259589-b918-42de-94bb-b1425caeeba7.filesusr.com/ugd/7181a5_69ea50c29c9b430daa59ddad4ee1d339.pdf
It seems weird (and inadequate) that the northern interchange with US-412 is a standard diamond, and not a full three-legged interchange.

This is extremely short-sighted. Unless this is a temporary setup, and a full stack will be built when the Gilcrease is extended north. But, knowing the OTA and ODOT, the Gilcrease loop might be a complete freeway except for this interchange.

[The Ghostbuster]

I believe the future diamond interchange is temporary. At least, I hope it is. After all, the Gilcrease west of M.L.K. Jr. Blvd. is a two-lane highway with at-grade intersections that will likely become a four-lane freeway/tollway in the future.

[tulsaweather]

.....extremely short-sighted.....

Isn't this the motto of both agencies?

[bugo]

.....extremely short-sighted.....

Isn't this the motto of both agencies?

If it isn't, then it should be.

[bugo]

I believe the future diamond interchange is temporary. At least, I hope it is. After all, the Gilcrease west of M.L.K. Jr. Blvd. is a two-lane highway with at-grade intersections that will likely become a four-lane freeway/tollway in the future.

I hope you're right. But we're dealing with ODOT and the OTA, so who knows what it will eventually look like. There is a precedent for this, as the current Gilcrease/Tisdale at grade intersection is (supposedly) a temporary setup.

The road that is currently signed as the Gilcrease Expressway between N 41st W Avenue and the LL is a temporary road. I don't know what the final configuration is going to look like, but I expect part of the temporary Gilcrease will be buried underneath the freeway Gilcrease, and part of it will remain in place as a frontage road.

Here is a PDF file of ODOT's plans for the Gilcrease/Tisdale interchange as of 2008. An ODOT contact sent me three PDF files of this interchange, and I fused them together into one PDF file. 2008 was 14 years ago (My, how time flies...) and the plans could have changed significantly (especially since the OTA will be involved now), but this is the original plan for the interchange.