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Author Topic: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project  (Read 25572 times)

roadman

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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #75 on: April 18, 2019, 11:11:31 AM »

Had the actual plan to relocate/extend I-93 onto MA 24 ever been adopted; similar signage would've still been needed for I-95.  Heck, given the 1989 US 1 reroute; one could just leave that short stretch (between I-95 & MA 24) as just US 1... let the I-595 designation be silent/internal.

Or, given the relatively short distance between I-95 in Canton and Route 24 in Randolph, they could just sign the segment as 'TO 93' eastbound and 'TO 95' westbound.

We've seen them do this before with the Lowell Connector, so it's possible.
Yes & no. 
Yes in the fact that ramps to the out/southbound Connector lists TO 495-3 on its signage. 
No in that one end of the Connector is not to a highway let alone an Interstate.

For many years, there were sporadic green Business Spur 495 route shields erected along the feeder roads to the Connector but not the Connector itself.


From Alpsroads.net

At present, only the JCT banner remains from the one along Plain St. (look towards the right of the GSV).

From what I understand, it was never 100% clear/known whether the Lowell Connector was actually designated as Business Spur 495.  Those old signs may have been rogue installs.

I think I remember a roadman story about this, now I don't want to get it wrong, but I believe the story goes that industry in the city wanted the Lowell Connector designated an Interstate Business Spur to facilitate commerce and, on their own, produced a series of maps showing the Connector as BUS 495. They also lobbied the municipal government successfully to sign all approaches to the connector as BUS 495. So it was entirely a municipal thing within the City of Lowell and its interests. But because central MassDPW in Boston never bit on the line, the green shields never made it to any BGS. As those in power at the time faded from memory, the approach assemblies with BUS 495 shields was never replaced when they were knocked down. For years the only one left was that one approaching the Connector heading north on Plain St. Only the JCT plaque is left, however it isn't even the correct plaque as it is a state route plaque, albeit a cool vintage one from the 1970s as you see above. And that pretty much is the story how I recall it.

Note that the business route assemblies on side streets approaching the Connector were fabricated by MassDPW (as evidenced by the MassDPW notation on some signs), and likely installed by District forces.  MassDPW Boston Office was probably aware of this designation, as official state highway maps in the late 1960s and early 1970s designated the Connector as '495S'.  This designation appeared on some oil company road maps as well.  However, as AMLNet49 points out, the Business Spur 495 shields never appeared on any BGS or LGS panels.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #76 on: April 21, 2019, 06:07:42 PM »

Had the actual plan to relocate/extend I-93 onto MA 24 ever been adopted; similar signage would've still been needed for I-95.  Heck, given the 1989 US 1 reroute; one could just leave that short stretch (between I-95 & MA 24) as just US 1... let the I-595 designation be silent/internal.

Or, given the relatively short distance between I-95 in Canton and Route 24 in Randolph, they could just sign the segment as 'TO 93' eastbound and 'TO 95' westbound.

We've seen them do this before with the Lowell Connector, so it's possible.
Yes & no. 
Yes in the fact that ramps to the out/southbound Connector lists TO 495-3 on its signage. 
No in that one end of the Connector is not to a highway let alone an Interstate.

For many years, there were sporadic green Business Spur 495 route shields erected along the feeder roads to the Connector but not the Connector itself.


From Alpsroads.net

At present, only the JCT banner remains from the one along Plain St. (look towards the right of the GSV).

From what I understand, it was never 100% clear/known whether the Lowell Connector was actually designated as Business Spur 495.  Those old signs may have been rogue installs.

I think I remember a roadman story about this, now I don't want to get it wrong, but I believe the story goes that industry in the city wanted the Lowell Connector designated an Interstate Business Spur to facilitate commerce and, on their own, produced a series of maps showing the Connector as BUS 495. They also lobbied the municipal government successfully to sign all approaches to the connector as BUS 495. So it was entirely a municipal thing within the City of Lowell and its interests. But because central MassDPW in Boston never bit on the line, the green shields never made it to any BGS. As those in power at the time faded from memory, the approach assemblies with BUS 495 shields was never replaced when they were knocked down. For years the only one left was that one approaching the Connector heading north on Plain St. Only the JCT plaque is left, however it isn't even the correct plaque as it is a state route plaque, albeit a cool vintage one from the 1970s as you see above. And that pretty much is the story how I recall it.

Note that the business route assemblies on side streets approaching the Connector were fabricated by MassDPW (as evidenced by the MassDPW notation on some signs), and likely installed by District forces.  MassDPW Boston Office was probably aware of this designation, as official state highway maps in the late 1960s and early 1970s designated the Connector as '495S'.  This designation appeared on some oil company road maps as well.  However, as AMLNet49 points out, the Business Spur 495 shields never appeared on any BGS or LGS panels.

Thanks for filling in the blanks! Evidently I had forgotten about the business spur designation getting state assistance. I have numerous MassDPW "official state map" and oil company Mass. maps from the 70s in pretty good condition in storage which I've never gone through that closely, I will see if I can find different ways it was labeled and make a thread with the pictures if they turn out to be interesting
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #77 on: July 28, 2019, 11:51:00 PM »

Took a quick trip along MA 24 down to Taunton and back and while there were no new signs of note along the highway, I did spot several new sign foundations as far north as MA 123 in Brockton. Also took photos of some new ramp photos, such as this on MA 123 in Brockton:


Remaining photos on the MA 24 Sign Gallery page: http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/MA24photos.html

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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #78 on: April 07, 2020, 10:11:15 PM »

Despite not placing all the sign foundations as of yet, the contractor for the sign replacement contract has started putting up new signs in the Fall River area. Here's one of the two new 1-mile advance signs for the US 6 exit:


The remaining new signs photos are on my MA 24 Photo Gallery:
http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/MA24photos.html

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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #79 on: May 27, 2020, 11:35:18 PM »

Took a trip along MA 24 Memorial Day weekend to check on sign replacement progress. Many new signs had been placed since my previous trip in April. For example, here's the new 2-miles advance for the I-495 exit headed north. Notice as the previously posted sign plans indicated that Marlboro has replaced Worcester as a control city:


The rest of the sign photos are on the MA 24 Sign Gallery:
http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/MA24photos.html

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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #80 on: May 27, 2020, 11:39:52 PM »

Took a trip along MA 24 Memorial Day weekend to check on sign replacement progress. Many new signs had been placed since my previous trip in April. For example, here's the new 2-miles advance for the I-495 exit headed north. Notice as the previously posted sign plans indicated that Marlboro has replaced Worcester as a control city:


The rest of the sign photos are on the MA 24 Sign Gallery:
http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/MA24photos.html
I get the Worcester is not on I-495, but I absolutely hate Marlboro as a control city.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #81 on: May 28, 2020, 01:02:31 AM »

Took a trip along MA 24 Memorial Day weekend to check on sign replacement progress. Many new signs had been placed since my previous trip in April. For example, here's the new 2-miles advance for the I-495 exit headed north. Notice as the previously posted sign plans indicated that Marlboro has replaced Worcester as a control city:


The rest of the sign photos are on the MA 24 Sign Gallery:
http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/MA24photos.html
I get the Worcester is not on I-495, but I absolutely hate Marlboro as a control city.

Yikes that's a lot of progress since I last saw it over the Easter weekend.

I'm not much of a fan of Marlboro being chosen over Worcester as well. As someone who has lived in the area for 15 years (and counting), Worcester is far more recognized and important than Marlboro.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #82 on: May 28, 2020, 01:16:04 AM »

Took a trip along MA 24 Memorial Day weekend to check on sign replacement progress. Many new signs had been placed since my previous trip in April. For example, here's the new 2-miles advance for the I-495 exit headed north. Notice as the previously posted sign plans indicated that Marlboro has replaced Worcester as a control city:


The rest of the sign photos are on the MA 24 Sign Gallery:
http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/MA24photos.html
I get the Worcester is not on I-495, but I absolutely hate Marlboro as a control city.

Yikes that's a lot of progress since I last saw it over the Easter weekend.

I'm not much of a fan of Marlboro being chosen over Worcester as well. As someone who has lived in the area for 15 years (and counting), Worcester is far more recognized and important than Marlboro.
Anyone wanna mention that Cape Cod isn't a city? Technically that should be Wareham. How obscure do we want to be? Also, the town is Marlborough, not Marlboro. Marlboro is in New Jersey. Nearly 40,000 people isn't terrible, and I'll throw this out there - Fall River traffic to Wista should be using I-195 to I-95 to RI/MA 146.

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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #83 on: May 28, 2020, 10:40:42 AM »

Took a trip along MA 24 Memorial Day weekend to check on sign replacement progress. Many new signs had been placed since my previous trip in April. For example, here's the new 2-miles advance for the I-495 exit headed north. Notice as the previously posted sign plans indicated that Marlboro has replaced Worcester as a control city:


The rest of the sign photos are on the MA 24 Sign Gallery:
http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/MA24photos.html
I get the Worcester is not on I-495, but I absolutely hate Marlboro as a control city.

Yikes that's a lot of progress since I last saw it over the Easter weekend.

I'm not much of a fan of Marlboro being chosen over Worcester as well. As someone who has lived in the area for 15 years (and counting), Worcester is far more recognized and important than Marlboro.
Anyone wanna mention that Cape Cod isn't a city? Technically that should be Wareham. How obscure do we want to be? Also, the town is Marlborough, not Marlboro. Marlboro is in New Jersey. Nearly 40,000 people isn't terrible, and I'll throw this out there - Fall River traffic to Wista should be using I-195 to I-95 to RI/MA 146.
It isn't, but I'm actually fine with Cape Cod as a control city, unlike the states in Chicagoland.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2020, 01:35:25 PM »

It isn't, but I'm actually fine with Cape Cod as a control city, unlike the states in Chicagoland.

Agreed, I think in certain instances using a region works better than a specific town/city/etc.  Another good example I can think of is VDOT replacing Nags Head/Manteo with the more-inclusive "Outer Banks" when leaving the Hampton Roads area.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #85 on: May 28, 2020, 02:38:17 PM »

Anyone wanna mention that Cape Cod isn't a city? Technically that should be Wareham. How obscure do we want to be? Also, the town is Marlborough, not Marlboro. Marlboro is in New Jersey. Nearly 40,000 people isn't terrible, and I'll throw this out there - Fall River traffic to Wista should be using I-195 to I-95 to RI/MA 146.

Cape Cod makes perfect sense as a control point for any road leading up to the Cape Cod Canal.  Then once on the cape, change to traditional town destinations.  I-90 Exit 11A was changed to Taunton on the primary signs, but retain Cape Cod for a secondary auxillary destination.  Seeing as how every other sign replacement project in the state is retaining Cape Cod, I'm not sure why I-90 was changed, of all roads. 

Yes, while true the town is "Marlborough", for some reason, Mass has shortened all of its towns that end in "ugh".  Older signs (going back to the ones prior to the current sign replacement project - so probably late 1970s/80s installs) used to have the "ugh".  The last ones I know of was on the Mass Pike for Exit 12 and on the Exit 11A ramp to I-495, with the latter shown below, taken just past the toll house:

IMG_1225 by Jay Hogan, on Flickr

But everywhere else, the "ughs" are gone, leaving Foxboro, Attleboro, Southboro, Westboro, Marlboro, Northboro, etc.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 08:27:27 PM by shadyjay »
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #86 on: May 28, 2020, 03:49:51 PM »

As I've stated before, IMO Route 3 to Cape Cod better warrants an interstate designation, either I-93 or I-393, than 24.
FTFY
Or I-193.  :D
Or US 3.  That way it ends at another US Highway.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #87 on: May 28, 2020, 09:01:34 PM »

If the reasoning behind MA 24 being upgraded to an interstate over MA 3 is because they want I-93 to end at another interstate highway, then the solution is simple:

*  Extend the MA 25 expressway due east to meet MA 3 north of the Sagamore interchange (easier said than done)..
*  Sign this (and the portion west to I-195/I-495) as I-195...
*  Upgrade/sign MA 3 as I-93 down to this point in Sagamore where the new e/w road would meet MA 3....
*  Renumber MA 25 n/s section as something else (maybe MA 28).....
*  Renumber the Mid Cape Hwy as US 6... that way the exit numbers would "jive" better, for the locals
    "Hey, we'll keep the exit numbers on the Mid Cape if you let us build this e/w connection.  And this will lead to reduced traffic on US 6 along the canal."

It's been years since I've been on MA 24.  It just doesn't strike me as a route deserving a 2DI designation.  MA 3 fits that bill more.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #88 on: May 28, 2020, 09:09:29 PM »

If the reasoning behind MA 24 being upgraded to an interstate over MA 3 is because they want I-93 to end at another interstate highway, then the solution is simple:

*  Extend the MA 25 expressway due east to meet MA 3 north of the Sagamore interchange (easier said than done)..
*  Sign this (and the portion west to I-195/I-495) as I-195...
*  Upgrade/sign MA 3 as I-93 down to this point in Sagamore where the new e/w road would meet MA 3....
*  Renumber MA 25 n/s section as something else (maybe MA 28).....
*  Renumber the Mid Cape Hwy as US 6... that way the exit numbers would "jive" better, for the locals
    "Hey, we'll keep the exit numbers on the Mid Cape if you let us build this e/w connection.  And this will lead to reduced traffic on US 6 along the canal."

It's been years since I've been on MA 24.  It just doesn't strike me as a route deserving a 2DI designation.  MA 3 fits that bill more.
Why not make the 4 lane mid cape highway I-93?
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #89 on: May 28, 2020, 10:31:40 PM »

If the reasoning behind MA 24 being upgraded to an interstate over MA 3 is because they want I-93 to end at another interstate highway, then the solution is simple:

*  Extend the MA 25 expressway due east to meet MA 3 north of the Sagamore interchange (easier said than done)..
*  Sign this (and the portion west to I-195/I-495) as I-195...
*  Upgrade/sign MA 3 as I-93 down to this point in Sagamore where the new e/w road would meet MA 3....
*  Renumber MA 25 n/s section as something else (maybe MA 28).....
*  Renumber the Mid Cape Hwy as US 6... that way the exit numbers would "jive" better, for the locals
    "Hey, we'll keep the exit numbers on the Mid Cape if you let us build this e/w connection.  And this will lead to reduced traffic on US 6 along the canal."

It's been years since I've been on MA 24.  It just doesn't strike me as a route deserving a 2DI designation.  MA 3 fits that bill more.
Why not make the 4 lane mid cape highway I-93?
The Cape people would love that. :-D Much easier just to make MA 3 an interstate spur, then no meeting another interstate is needed.

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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #90 on: May 29, 2020, 12:59:25 AM »

And we're back to non-fictional highways.

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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #91 on: May 29, 2020, 10:41:24 AM »

Anyone wanna mention that Cape Cod isn't a city? Technically that should be Wareham. How obscure do we want to be? Also, the town is Marlborough, not Marlboro. Marlboro is in New Jersey. Nearly 40,000 people isn't terrible, and I'll throw this out there - Fall River traffic to Wista should be using I-195 to I-95 to RI/MA 146.

Cape Cod makes perfect sense as a control point for any road leading up to the Cape Cod Canal.  Then once on the cape, change to traditional town destinations.  I-90 Exit 11A was changed to Taunton on the primary signs, but retain Cape Cod for a secondary auxillary destination.  Seeing as how every other sign replacement project in the state is retaining Cape Cod, I'm not sure why I-90 was changed, of all roads. 

Yes, while true the town is "Marlborough", for some reason, Mass has shortened all of its towns that end in "ugh".  Older signs (going back to the ones prior to the current sign replacement project - so probably late 1970s/80s installs) used to have the "ugh".  The last one I know of was on the Mass Pike for, ironically, Exit 11A for I-495.  The old destinations on the westbound signage was "Marlborough/Milford" (since you were travelling west, you weren't probably looking to I-495 to reach NH/Maine or Cape Cod at that point).  This was the sign just past the old toll house:

IMG_1225 by Jay Hogan, on Flickr

But everywhere else, the "ughs" are gone, leaving Foxboro, Attleboro, Southboro, Westboro, Marlboro, Northboro, etc.

Attleboro never had 'ugh' in its name.  And eliminating the 'ughs' reduces the sign size, but the name is still understood by drivers.  With the exception of a handful of D6/D8 signs in more rural parts of the state, the signs on the Mass Pike were the last holdouts to use full spelling on names, until they were recently replaced under the I-90 sign replacement contracts and the legacy toll plaza demo work.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #93 on: May 29, 2020, 11:03:56 PM »

Attleboro officially lost the -ugh when it incorporated as a city in 1914, though North Attleborough officially kept the -ugh.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #94 on: May 29, 2020, 11:15:16 PM »

Took a trip along MA 24 Memorial Day weekend to check on sign replacement progress. Many new signs had been placed since my previous trip in April. For example, here's the new 2-miles advance for the I-495 exit headed north. Notice as the previously posted sign plans indicated that Marlboro has replaced Worcester as a control city:


The rest of the sign photos are on the MA 24 Sign Gallery:
http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/MA24photos.html
I get the Worcester is not on I-495, but I absolutely hate Marlboro as a control city.

Yikes that's a lot of progress since I last saw it over the Easter weekend.

I'm not much of a fan of Marlboro being chosen over Worcester as well. As someone who has lived in the area for 15 years (and counting), Worcester is far more recognized and important than Marlboro.

I reached out to MassDOT to see why Marlboro was chosen over Worcester, and they've got back to me.
Quote from: MassDOT
Please be advised, as part of an evaluation of the principal destinations provided on our Interstate highways it was determined that Marlboro was a more appropriate destination for I-495 than Worcester. I-495 does not directly serve Worcester, and much of the traffic that enters I-495 from other routes is not destined for Worcester. Worcester is still listed alternately with Marlboro on pull-through and post interchange distance signs on I-495, and Worcester is still the signed destination at the interchange of I-495 and I-290 West.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #95 on: June 16, 2020, 11:29:11 PM »

Had a chance to take another trip along Route 24 this past Sunday to check out new signage. Additional new signs have been put up southbound starting at MA 139, plus additional new signs for MA 106 and I-495. Northbound also featured 2 more new signs for I-495, the first new signs for the MA 104 and Harrison Blvd/Central St exits and an additional one for MA 27. When I drove south on Sunday morning it looked like the sign contractor had closed the left lane northbound to finish work on a new advance sign support for the I-93 exit, backing up traffic to 139. Fortunately, they finished, or were told to finish, and left by the time I returned. Here's a photo of one of the new I-495 signs now mostly blocking the existing MA 104 sign heading north:


More new sign images can be found at: http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/MA24photos.html

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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #96 on: June 18, 2020, 11:37:31 AM »

Took a trip along MA 24 Memorial Day weekend to check on sign replacement progress. Many new signs had been placed since my previous trip in April. For example, here's the new 2-miles advance for the I-495 exit headed north. Notice as the previously posted sign plans indicated that Marlboro has replaced Worcester as a control city:


The rest of the sign photos are on the MA 24 Sign Gallery:
http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/MA24photos.html
I get the Worcester is not on I-495, but I absolutely hate Marlboro as a control city.

Yikes that's a lot of progress since I last saw it over the Easter weekend.

I'm not much of a fan of Marlboro being chosen over Worcester as well. As someone who has lived in the area for 15 years (and counting), Worcester is far more recognized and important than Marlboro.

I reached out to MassDOT to see why Marlboro was chosen over Worcester, and they've got back to me.
Quote from: MassDOT
Please be advised, as part of an evaluation of the principal destinations provided on our Interstate highways it was determined that Marlboro was a more appropriate destination for I-495 than Worcester. I-495 does not directly serve Worcester, and much of the traffic that enters I-495 from other routes is not destined for Worcester. Worcester is still listed alternately with Marlboro on pull-through and post interchange distance signs on I-495, and Worcester is still the signed destination at the interchange of I-495 and I-290 West.
I don't like Cape Cod as the control city TBH. I get why it is, but it's not an actual city. I would have preferred it say Hyannis or Barnstable.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #97 on: June 18, 2020, 11:51:01 AM »


I don't like Cape Cod as the control city TBH. I get why it is, but it's not an actual city. I would have preferred it say Hyannis or Barnstable.

Hyannis isn't a city or town, either. It's only a village, and villages have no legal recognition in Massachusetts.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #98 on: June 18, 2020, 12:46:58 PM »


I don't like Cape Cod as the control city TBH. I get why it is, but it's not an actual city. I would have preferred it say Hyannis or Barnstable.

Hyannis isn't a city or town, either. It's only a village, and villages have no legal recognition in Massachusetts.

Yet it's still signed on MA 25.
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Re: Route 24 Fall River to Randolph sign project
« Reply #99 on: June 29, 2020, 12:48:49 PM »


I don't like Cape Cod as the control city TBH. I get why it is, but it's not an actual city. I would have preferred it say Hyannis or Barnstable.

Hyannis isn't a city or town, either. It's only a village, and villages have no legal recognition in Massachusetts.

Yet it's still signed on MA 25.
Clarification: it's signed for an exit off MA 25 not 25 itself.

For some reason, MassDOT is recently showing some inconsistency with regards to listing control points (as opposed to control cities).  Along I-90, as Roadman mentioned, Cape Cod is not listed on the primary interchange ramp signage for I-495 but such is still listed for the MA 24 interchange signage for I-495 southbound.  Cape Cod is also still listed primary ramp signage for MA 3 southbound off I-93.

That said, I'm still in agreement with using Cape Cod as a listed control point on primary signage because such makes logical sense.   That said, either Wareham or Bourne could be used for a southbound I-495 & eastbound MA 25 listings if one got more MUTCD-anal. 

With regards to listing Worcester for an I-495 control city; MassDOT is, again, being inconsistent with its logic.  Many southbound I-495 signage from I-95 to MA 62 still list Worcester as a control city.  Logic & consistency would suggest that northbound I-495 signage could still list Worcester as a control city from I-195/MA 25 to MA 135; and the old signs indeed did such.
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