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Author Topic: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties  (Read 24006 times)

Bobby5280

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #125 on: January 10, 2022, 04:58:25 PM »

TX DOT should have started planning for a freeway upgrade of US-380 between Denton and McKinney back in the early 1990's. The work they're starting is more than 20 years overdue. Some of the existing 4-lane and 6-lane portions weren't upgraded from 2-lanes into that until the late 1990's going into the early 2000's. If they hadn't piddled around the freeway upgrade would have been able to follow along more of US-380. And much of the work would be finished already. The Denton and McKinney segments are going to go bending all over the place.

US-82 farther North between Gainesville and Sherman is currently threatening to turn into a similar mess. At least US-82 is limited access going thru Sherman.
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Road Hog

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #126 on: January 11, 2022, 10:57:57 PM »

I'm not as worried about US 82 in Grayson County because it has a sufficient ROW footprint already as an expressway. There are driveways and grade intersections for sure west of US 75, but there are options for a remedy. TxDOT planned a little better east of Sherman and to the Lamar County line.
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Bobby5280

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #127 on: January 12, 2022, 02:18:56 PM »

The stretch of US-82 between US-377 (Whitesboro) and US-75 (Sherman) isn't too bad for now. The segment of US-82 between Gainesville and Whitesboro is more of a mess, particularly the area immediately East of Gainesville to the intersection with FM-678. The "US 82 Relief Route" TX DOT studied years ago had less to do with moving thru traffic on US-82 and more to do with North-South traffic on I-35.
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bwana39

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #128 on: January 12, 2022, 11:36:23 PM »

The stretch of US-82 between US-377 (Whitesboro) and US-75 (Sherman) isn't too bad for now. The segment of US-82 between Gainesville and Whitesboro is more of a mess, particularly the area immediately East of Gainesville to the intersection with FM-678. The "US 82 Relief Route" TX DOT studied years ago had less to do with moving thru traffic on US-82 and more to do with North-South traffic on I-35.


Actually the entirety of US-82 between the two ends of SH-56 (the former routing of US-82) has ROW for 2x2 mainlanes as well as through frontage roads on both sides. To be exact from the Cooke County line to the Lamar County Line. (On the west end that is about a mile past SH-56 on the east they are pretty much at the same place. ) The ROW is there even at Whitesboro HS. Some of the access will wind up changing, but the ROW is there. 

Cooke County is a different story. Likewise Lamar.
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Bobby5280

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #129 on: January 13, 2022, 12:01:59 AM »

That's a sort of different way of saying what I said. US-82 is a mess from Gainesville (in Cooke County) going East to the Grayson County line just West of Whitesboro. It would be much more simple to upgrade US-82 within Grayson County since all the ROW is there. Farther East into Fannin County isn't bad either. The segment of US-82 going into Paris, TX isn't nearly as upgrade-ready. But it's not nearly as much of a mess as what's going on at the East side of Gainesville. Any thru freeway upgrades of US-82 in Gainesville will likely require a new terrain freeway bypass. A partial or full loop around Gainesville will probably be the eventual outcome.
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CoolAngrybirdsrio4

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kernals12

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2022, 09:32:02 PM »

There seems to be confusion here: the current construction project will widen 380 and construct 5 grade separations. It will not turn 380 into a freeway.
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CoolAngrybirdsrio4

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #134 on: January 15, 2022, 09:33:52 PM »

There seems to be confusion here: the current construction project will widen 380 and construct 5 grade separations. It will not turn 380 into a freeway.

I originally thought that none of US 380 in Texas was a freeway, maybe for that instance I should've sticked to my first instinct. However, TxDOT recommends to upgrade US 380 into a freeway.
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sprjus4

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #135 on: January 15, 2022, 09:39:37 PM »

^ The current project is grade separations and widening.

In the future, they recommend a full freeway.
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DJStephens

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #136 on: January 16, 2022, 11:17:53 AM »

Articles are written by those w/o a construction or engineering background.  Details are sparse.   While not intimate with the area, was in Denton last spring, and evidence of growth and real estate activity was widespread.   They really should have seen this coming, years, if not three decades ago. 
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kernals12

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #137 on: January 16, 2022, 02:28:17 PM »

Articles are written by those w/o a construction or engineering background.  Details are sparse.   While not intimate with the area, was in Denton last spring, and evidence of growth and real estate activity was widespread.   They really should have seen this coming, years, if not three decades ago.
If they built it 3 decades ago, it almost certainly would've been as a tollway.
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MaxConcrete

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #138 on: March 23, 2022, 08:44:39 PM »

A public meeting was held yesterday. http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/US380EISPublicMeeting
This meeting focused on the remaining options for the McKinney bypass.



Observations
  • The planned freeway is 4x4 with continuous frontage roads for the entire length
  • Segment E, which is the final alignment, has a very long elevated section at US 75 mainly due to the Trinity flood plain, but also due to road crossings. It is about 3 miles long and the frontage roads are also elevated. Looking at the schematic, you can see the abundance of elevated structures especially east of US 75. This is going to be expensive.
  • Segment D is on elevated structures for its entire length due to being in the Trinity flood plain. This is an expensive option.
  • The interchange at US 75 is a four-level interchange. Both directions of frontage roads go through the interchange, but they don't intersect.
  • I think the the B-E-C is most likely to be recommended
  • The recommended alternative will be revealed in early 2023. Earliest construction start is 2026.

Road Hog

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #139 on: March 23, 2022, 09:21:41 PM »

By "elevated," was it stated whether it's mostly berm or mostly bridge? (I'm sure there will be both, of course.)
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MaxConcrete

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #140 on: March 23, 2022, 09:33:37 PM »

By "elevated," was it stated whether it's mostly berm or mostly bridge? (I'm sure there will be both, of course.)
Looking at the schematic, all elevated structures are shown as bridges. The schematic shows the pier positions, leaving no doubt it is a bridge.

Bobby5280

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #141 on: March 23, 2022, 10:32:11 PM »

Hopefully the B-E-C option will be selected. The "A" and "D" options are just too crooked. "B" and "C" are more gradual and could either allow higher speeds or just be safer at normal speeds.

I like how they're proposing it as a 4x4 lane configuration. I was worried it might be built as 3x3 or even 3x3 but striped as 2x2. Hopefully there will be at least some space left over in the ROW for later upgrades to 5x5.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #142 on: March 23, 2022, 10:49:28 PM »

Theyíd be wise to build the bridge to easily be expanded to a 5x5.
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Bobby5280

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #143 on: March 24, 2022, 12:14:22 AM »

As long as some of the bridges may be it could be too much of an extravagance to build them out with 5x5 potential capacity but stripe them as 4x4 lanes. We'll just have to see how it pans out. My main hope is they're able to just build the damned thing (as well as the other US-380 upgrade projects West of this one).
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Cerlin

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #144 on: March 24, 2022, 05:20:59 PM »

Iím quite glad this will be a freeway. With the combination of the DNT, 121, and PGBT, itís quite difficult to get around the northern suburbs without using toll roads. A freeway will be a nice change of pace.
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sprjus4

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #145 on: March 24, 2022, 06:23:26 PM »

Iím quite glad this will be a freeway. With the combination of the DNT, 121, and PGBT, itís quite difficult to get around the northern suburbs without using toll roads. A freeway will be a nice change of pace.
A toll road is still a freeway.

The term freeway does not indicate whether a road has tolls or not. Itís referring to the design of the road, fully controlled access, free of obstructions, etc.
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Cerlin

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #146 on: March 24, 2022, 10:11:38 PM »

Iím quite glad this will be a freeway. With the combination of the DNT, 121, and PGBT, itís quite difficult to get around the northern suburbs without using toll roads. A freeway will be a nice change of pace.
A toll road is still a freeway.

The term freeway does not indicate whether a road has tolls or not. Itís referring to the design of the road, fully controlled access, free of obstructions, etc.
Whoops. Let me clarify. Iím quite glad this will be a freeway without tolls. With the combination of the DNT, 121, and PGBT, itís quite difficult to get around the northern suburbs without using toll roads. A freeway without tolls will be a nice change of pace. Given the language of all the TXDOT reports, it doesnít appear as if they are putting tolls on it.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2022, 10:15:33 PM by Cerlin »
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In_Correct

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #147 on: March 25, 2022, 09:31:43 AM »

A public meeting was held yesterday. http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/US380EISPublicMeeting
This meeting focused on the remaining options for the McKinney bypass.



Observations
  • The planned freeway is 4x4 with continuous frontage roads for the entire length
  • Segment E, which is the final alignment, has a very long elevated section at US 75 mainly due to the Trinity flood plain, but also due to road crossings. It is about 3 miles long and the frontage roads are also elevated. Looking at the schematic, you can see the abundance of elevated structures especially east of US 75. This is going to be expensive.
  • Segment D is on elevated structures for its entire length due to being in the Trinity flood plain. This is an expensive option.
  • The interchange at US 75 is a four-level interchange. Both directions of frontage roads go through the interchange, but they don't intersect.
  • I think the the B-E-C is most likely to be recommended
  • The recommended alternative will be revealed in early 2023. Earliest construction start is 2026.

&

By "elevated," was it stated whether it's mostly berm or mostly bridge? (I'm sure there will be both, of course.)

&

By "elevated," was it stated whether it's mostly berm or mostly bridge? (I'm sure there will be both, of course.)
Looking at the schematic, all elevated structures are shown as bridges. The schematic shows the pier positions, leaving no doubt it is a bridge.

I can hear them all ready:

"Oh No! Not A Bridge! Not Another Unstylish Bridge!!".

Toll It Now, to keep this Beautiful Bridge safe, and to Thrush The Protestors.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 09:33:46 AM by In_Correct »
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kernals12

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #148 on: March 25, 2022, 12:56:13 PM »

As long as some of the bridges may be it could be too much of an extravagance to build them out with 5x5 potential capacity but stripe them as 4x4 lanes. We'll just have to see how it pans out. My main hope is they're able to just build the damned thing (as well as the other US-380 upgrade projects West of this one).

If they reach a point where this freeway is suffering major congestion, they can always de-toll the Sam Rayburn Tollway.
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In_Correct

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Re: DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties
« Reply #149 on: March 25, 2022, 04:22:44 PM »

As long as some of the bridges may be it could be too much of an extravagance to build them out with 5x5 potential capacity but stripe them as 4x4 lanes. We'll just have to see how it pans out. My main hope is they're able to just build the damned thing (as well as the other US-380 upgrade projects West of this one).

If they reach a point where this freeway is suffering major congestion, they can always de-toll the Sam Rayburn Tollway.

Could they simply widen this Beautiful Bridge after constructed? They did that to U.S. 82 Over Interstate 35 so that they could add Turnaround Lanes.
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