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Author Topic: Route changes in Niagara Falls?  (Read 4647 times)

yakra

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Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« on: September 29, 2020, 02:32:06 PM »

According to the Simplified Streets shapefiles from the NYS GIS clearinghouse:

954V is gonzo. 1st St is now unnumbered. Rainbow Blvd is now part of NY384.

NY384 has been removed from John B. Daly Blvd & Niagara St, and relocated onto Rainbow Blvd. Instead of turning onto the Rainbow Bridge to end at the toll booth as before, it goes north one more block to terminate at NY104. As for its old routing...

952B, formerly just John B. Daly Blvd between Buffalo Ave & Rainbow Blvd, has been extended north to Niagara St.

Niagara St is now unnumbered east of 5th St.

951A is shown as taking over Niagara St from 5th St westward to the Rainbow Bridge toll booth. Which seems strange, as that's the number for the LaSalle Expy, disconnected and kinda far away. Worth noting that vdeane has mentioned "the original plans to extend it to the Rainbow Bridge", but still... why a disconnected reference route now after all these years? Could this have been a typo on the part of the person editing the shapefiles, with 955A, the number for the Rainbow Bridge west of the toll booth, intended here?

NY104 has the same terminus on paper as before -- Rainbow Blvd. Notwithstanding, the most recent GMSV has it turning south on 1st St to end at Niagara (erstwhile NY384). If signage will be changed to reflect these reroutings, this small correction would probably happen too.



If anybody were able to check this out, and maybe even provide photos, I'd love that, and make the changes in TravelMapping.
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"Officer, I'm always careful to drive the speed limit no matter where I am and that's what I was doin'." Said "No, you weren't," she said, "Yes, I was." He said, "Madam, I just clocked you at 22 MPH," and she said "That's the speed limit," he said "No ma'am, that's the route numbah!"  - Gary Crocker

The Ghostbuster

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM »

This question isn't about a route change, but is the US 104 route marker still posted on 2nd Street in the northbound direction?
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yakra

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2020, 03:40:14 PM »

It's also about a route change.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 03:42:39 PM by yakra »
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"Officer, I'm always careful to drive the speed limit no matter where I am and that's what I was doin'." Said "No, you weren't," she said, "Yes, I was." He said, "Madam, I just clocked you at 22 MPH," and she said "That's the speed limit," he said "No ma'am, that's the route numbah!"  - Gary Crocker

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2020, 08:37:41 PM »

What's interesting is that none of this is reflected in the new version of Traffic Data Viewer, but then, neither is the removal of West River Parkway.  I don't know anything about that dataset, but this seems odd.
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yakra

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2020, 02:18:13 AM »

Aah, new TDV! No wonder the old link wasn't working; noted!
The dataset came from http://gis.ny.gov/gisdata/inventories/details.cfm?DSID=932
Some things about it have looked a bit iffy, most memorably on the Sunken Meadow State Parkway where 908K extends all the way the the end of the roadway at the traffic circle by the parking areas.
Definitely going to take a wait-and-see approach WRT TravelMapping.

Edit: Parts of the Inner Loop are shown as SH 940T, but even more is "I-490". Yeah, something goofy is going on.
TBD: do the changes in Niagara Falls have any substance to them?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 02:54:34 AM by yakra »
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"Officer, I'm always careful to drive the speed limit no matter where I am and that's what I was doin'." Said "No, you weren't," she said, "Yes, I was." He said, "Madam, I just clocked you at 22 MPH," and she said "That's the speed limit," he said "No ma'am, that's the route numbah!"  - Gary Crocker

cl94

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2020, 12:00:27 AM »

I'll try and check on Niagara Falls over the next month and a half when I'm in the area. Some of these changes make no sense.

We'll probably need a new version of the Official Description to get a definitive answer on the reference routes, as the GIS files have historically been sloppy. I'm hoping for a new version of that sometime soon; we recently got a new version of the truck routes book, so maybe this means we'll get a new route log?
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empirestate

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2020, 01:57:50 AM »

I'll need to look more in depth at the specific changes, but in general I wouldn't consider a representation in the GIS dataset to be indicative of actual numbering changes. I would rely more on inventory files or NYSDOT traffic data.
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baugh17

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2020, 03:41:46 PM »

This question isn't about a route change, but is the US 104 route marker still posted on 2nd Street in the northbound direction?

The signs were replaced within the last couple of years.
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cl94

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2020, 08:20:56 PM »

I was up in Niagara Falls today and checked on this, among a handful of other things.

-As signed, NY 384 still uses John B Daly Blvd and Niagara Street. Signs are brand new.
-That being said, reference markers show 952B and 951A, respectively. That doesn't mean anything, because NY 384 was put on its current alignment in the mid-2000s and reference markers generally aren't updated with new numbers.

No other route changes to note. Everything else is as before.
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vdeane

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2020, 09:23:32 PM »

That's an interesting note about NY 384 having been moved about 15 years ago.  I'm guessing the reference routes were put in their current configuration at the same time... in which case, it's likely that the GIS data in question simply wasn't updated when all this happened.
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cl94

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2020, 09:36:18 PM »

I'm guessing the reference routes were put in their current configuration at the same time... in which case, it's likely that the GIS data in question simply wasn't updated when all this happened.

That would be my assumption. The old route was Rainbow Boulevard to NY 104...which is what the GIS data shows.
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yakra

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2020, 02:40:32 PM »

This area's a very interesting one in Historic Aerials. 384 used to take a more northerly alignment of Rainbow Blvd that curved into Old Falls St, demolition of which was underway as early as 1972. Remarkable amounts of the downtown-ish area have been demolished; looks like mostly housing. Indeed, the city has been hemorrhaging population since 1960.
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"Officer, I'm always careful to drive the speed limit no matter where I am and that's what I was doin'." Said "No, you weren't," she said, "Yes, I was." He said, "Madam, I just clocked you at 22 MPH," and she said "That's the speed limit," he said "No ma'am, that's the route numbah!"  - Gary Crocker

cl94

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2020, 07:00:28 PM »

This area's a very interesting one in Historic Aerials. 384 used to take a more northerly alignment of Rainbow Blvd that curved into Old Falls St, demolition of which was underway as early as 1972. Remarkable amounts of the downtown-ish area have been demolished; looks like mostly housing. Indeed, the city has been hemorrhaging population since 1960.

Yeah, Rainbow Boulevard was built in the 70s as an urban renewal arterial into downtown. Rainbow and 1st were a one-way pair at the west end. Daly Blvd and Niagara Street as we know them were built in the late 90s. In the late 2000s, the one-way pair was converted to two-way and 384 was moved onto the new-ish Daly/Niagara downtown bypass.

Something else you might have noticed on old aerial imagery is how the Robert Moses Parkway was continuous. The last of the stubs in the state park area (specifically around the Rainbow Bridge) were ripped out last summer as part of the removal project between the park and Whirlpool Bridge.
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Roadgeek Adam

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2020, 09:12:55 PM »

Half the area were railroads. Was a big hub for the New York Central (who had numerous lines terminate there) and a small terminal for the Erie. In the tourism game, I wouldn't call having your entire "downtown" full of rail yards as a benefit when you want to show off the majestic falls.

That being said, the city has not helped itself in many cases (see Love Canal).

The end of the railroads strength in Niagara Falls did not help things. (many case that happens. Railroad leaves town, shit goes downhill.)
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empirestate

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Re: Route changes in Niagara Falls?
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2020, 04:33:13 PM »

951A is shown as taking over Niagara St from 5th St westward to the Rainbow Bridge toll booth. Which seems strange, as that's the number for the LaSalle Expy, disconnected and kinda far away. Worth noting that vdeane has mentioned "the original plans to extend it to the Rainbow Bridge", but still... why a disconnected reference route now after all these years? Could this have been a typo on the part of the person editing the shapefiles, with 955A, the number for the Rainbow Bridge west of the toll booth, intended here?

951A has existed in these discontiguous segments for a while now. Check my pageólooks like the last update there was in 2004, and that was probably adding the numbers for the commission bridges, 955A and 955C. And yeah, those last two (along with 955B for the Peace Bridge) likely refer to only those segments maintained by the bridge agencies. 951A would cover the NYSDOT portion of the Lasalle Arterial, including whatever construction was done on the western end as well as the extant freeway. For a similar example elsewhere, see Bear Mountain State Parkway (SR 987H).
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