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Author Topic: I-49 in Northern Louisiana (Louisiana closes I-49 way too soon in cold weather.)  (Read 9183 times)

Rothman

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There is also the Cross Lake bridge. Two miles of bridge over Shreveport's main drinking water source...instantly tainted if a car or truck falls off the bridge and into the lake. No bueno.

They drink surface water in NE Louisiana?  Gross.  Surely they have some decent aquifers underneath them.  It is not an arid place, nor is the population so large as to overwhelm natural groundwater recharge.  I really hope that's wrong about Cross Lake.

Ever have tap water in New Orleans?
Yes.
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kphoger

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What's strange about a city's drinking water coming from a lake?  Wichita's water comes from Cheney Lake.  When I lived in southern Illinois, the drinking water came from Rend Lake.  Isn't this completely normal?
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What's strange about a city's drinking water coming from a lake?  Wichita's water comes from Cheney Lake.  When I lived in southern Illinois, the drinking water came from Rend Lake.  Isn't this completely normal?
Ours come from a river, specifically the Cape Fear.
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MikieTimT

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What's strange about a city's drinking water coming from a lake?  Wichita's water comes from Cheney Lake.  When I lived in southern Illinois, the drinking water came from Rend Lake.  Isn't this completely normal?

It is.  Northwest Arkansas gets there's from Beaver Lake.  Not unusual for scuba divers to play around the dam.  Some lakes are cleaner than others, I guess, but almost every source needs treatment in pretty much any municiple water system, whether it comes from the ground or surface.  Only different is how much treatment is required to clean it to potable standards.
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Bobby5280

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Here in Lawton we get most of our water supply from Lake Lawtonka to the North of Lawton and Fort Sill. We also pump some water up from Waurika Lake. Much of the Dallas-Fort Worth metro gets its water from various lakes in the region, including Lake Texoma. The DFW metro's water demands are so bad that they've taken to filing law suits against cities in Oklahoma trying to claim their water supply, using the rationale that if any source of water can empty into the Red River that water source belongs to them. So they're trying to get dibs on Waurika Lake. Crazy.
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bwana39

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Here in Lawton we get most of our water supply from Lake Lawtonka to the North of Lawton and Fort Sill. We also pump some water up from Waurika Lake. Much of the Dallas-Fort Worth metro gets its water from various lakes in the region, including Lake Texoma. The DFW metro's water demands are so bad that they've taken to filing law suits against cities in Oklahoma trying to claim their water supply, using the rationale that if any source of water can empty into the Red River that water source belongs to them. So they're trying to get dibs on Waurika Lake. Crazy.

I want to defend Texas. The suits were filed because the Oklahoma Attorney General voided agreements between NTMWD and cities in Oklahoma who were willing to lease water rights. These leases were just short term and conveyed no rights beyond year to year contracts. If you don't need it, can we have it? If you need it, you can get it and NTMWD would have no claim.

I most cases these water contracts were just to capture the water before it reached the Red River or Lake Texoma. It was water that was  in large part already available to them once it reached Texoma. The water in Texoma has a moderately high salinity content and the water in the Washita before it enters Texoma has negligible salinity.

This takes us back to Cross Lake. There is more than enough water in the Red River to fulfill the needs of Shreveport it is just of too low a quality to use.

Most of Texas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas use surface water. Some of it is really gross. But even if the quantity in the aquifers were to be sufficient, the taste and quality might be as bad or worse than surface (lake) water
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 06:05:58 PM by bwana39 »
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triplemultiplex

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I tend to associate surface water use as a drinking water supply with either arid regions or areas of extremely high population.  (Or also, areas of very shallow, granitic bedrock.)  I'm so used to the Great Lakes region where all municipal drinking water is ground water except for cities on the Great Lakes themselves.  I figured a place like Shreveport which sits on top of thousands of feet of sedimentary layers and in a wet climate would have plenty of groundwater at their finger tips.  But I guess not.  Must be too much oil. :P
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JayhawkCO

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Off topic, obviously, but most of Denver's comes from Lake Dillon.

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I'm so used to the Great Lakes region where all municipal drinking water is ground water except for cities on the Great Lakes themselves. 
Not hardly.  Inland cities have pipelines running to the Lakes, for example Grand Rapids and Wyoming both have pipes to Lake Michigan.  Flint was using water from the Detroit system and was going to change to a new pipeline from Lake Huron.  The Detroit system covers over 1000 square miles and supplies water to more than 40% of Michigan's population.

Where the Great Lakes watershed line is very close to the lakes themselves - like in Wisconsin and in the Cleveland area - the pipelines are shorter, because of the agreement between the states and Ontario that no water can be shipped out of the basin.
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bwana39

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This morning Texarkana had it's first frost of the year. (Very LIGHT). Shreveport is still a cold snap off probably.

The barrels to close I-49 (and I-220) were put out last week (The first of November.) Forget the first potential ice or snow.....

They will close it when the traffic between Texarkana and Mira Myrtis Road cruises to a 75 Mph stop and then gets to slog through a wet, narrow, but not icy US-71 between 30 and 55 mph
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MikieTimT

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This morning Texarkana had it's first frost of the year. (Very LIGHT). Shreveport is still a cold snap off probably.

The barrels to close I-49 (and I-220) were put out last week (The first of November.) Forget the first potential ice or snow.....

They will close it when the traffic between Texarkana and Mira Myrtis Road cruises to a 75 Mph stop and then gets to slog through a wet, narrow, but not icy US-71 between 30 and 55 mph

I guess that's one way to save doing any maintenance on 27 miles of freeway that's relatively straight and level.  Must be the bridges they're worried about.  Apparently they'll focus on taking care of local roads and US-71 instead.
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bwana39

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This morning Texarkana had it's first frost of the year. (Very LIGHT). Shreveport is still a cold snap off probably.

The barrels to close I-49 (and I-220) were put out last week (The first of November.) Forget the first potential ice or snow.....

They will close it when the traffic between Texarkana and Mira Myrtis Road cruises to a 75 Mph stop and then gets to slog through a wet, narrow, but not icy US-71 between 30 and 55 mph

I guess that's one way to save doing any maintenance on 27 miles of freeway that's relatively straight and level.  Must be the bridges they're worried about.  Apparently they'll focus on taking care of local roads and US-71 instead.

That is the basic idea. They really don't "maintain" US-71 either. The traffic volumes just keep the tracks beat open.

 My beef is not that they close I-49. It is they do it arbitrarily before the road becomes troublesome and undoes it long after the weather would dictate keeping it closed. Like I said above the Arkansas stretch will have traffic running 75 MPH or more then when you get to Louisiana, it is closed.

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r15-1

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I tend to associate surface water use as a drinking water supply with either arid regions or areas of extremely high population.  (Or also, areas of very shallow, granitic bedrock.)  I'm so used to the Great Lakes region where all municipal drinking water is ground water except for cities on the Great Lakes themselves.  I figured a place like Shreveport which sits on top of thousands of feet of sedimentary layers and in a wet climate would have plenty of groundwater at their finger tips.  But I guess not.  Must be too much oil. :P
The Sparta Aquifer supplies much of the drinking water for cities southeast and east of Shreveport but not for the Shreveport area.
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Plutonic Panda

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Am I reading this right, they actually shut the road down due to cold temperatures?
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triplemultiplex

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Yeah I am puzzled by that too. Over a frost/freeze warning?  Seriously?  Didn't someone know that kind of alert is for plants?
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Plutonic Panda

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I’m just having a hard time believing that I did a Google search on it and couldn’t find much. Fairbanks Alaska can somehow keep roads open when temperatures don’t even get above -20 but yet Louisiana shuts down by 49 when temperatures get below 40? Wat
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bwana39

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They close it if they PROJECT precipitation and sustained temperatures below freezing.

A dusting of snow will close it every time. They did do some better last year, but still kept it closed way too long once they closed it.

Condition of the roadway doesn't seem to be part of the equation.
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bassoon1986

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Here’s a couple. Although it was for actual freezing temps. Still doesn’t make sense to me. A couple of bridges on that stretch but Arkansas is further north and would have greater chance of freezing temps and precipitation yet I-49 stays open there.

https://www.ktbs.com/news/dotd-closes-i--due-to-winter-weather-conditions/article_955b8a02-f774-11e7-a31e-e7a0ac8ca6bd.html




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bwana39

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Here’s a couple. Although it was for actual freezing temps. Still doesn’t make sense to me. A couple of bridges on that stretch but Arkansas is further north and would have greater chance of freezing temps and precipitation yet I-49 stays open there.

https://www.ktbs.com/news/dotd-closes-i--due-to-winter-weather-conditions/article_955b8a02-f774-11e7-a31e-e7a0ac8ca6bd.html




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It was cold, but I think I drove to Shreveport on US-71 from Myra that day and on Friday. I-49 from Texarkana to Myra.  From Friday night onward, it should have been closed if there ever was a time. That was the beginning of the cold snap that brought the record cold and record snowfall.
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r15-1

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I think much of the trigger-happy I-49 closure mentality dates back to construction of I-220, especially when the loop was completed when the Cross Lake bridge opened.

I-220 has always been closed by the Shreveport district of LaDOTD at the first hint of winter precip. I understand closing the Cross Lake Bridge to eliminate accident risk over the water supply, but the whole loop is usually closed at one time. I-49 just became part of the closure list when the north section opened. At times even long stretches of I-49 south of Shreveport have also been closed.
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bwana39

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I think much of the trigger-happy I-49 closure mentality dates back to construction of I-220, especially when the loop was completed when the Cross Lake bridge opened.

I-220 has always been closed by the Shreveport district of LaDOTD at the first hint of winter precip. I understand closing the Cross Lake Bridge to eliminate accident risk over the water supply, but the whole loop is usually closed at one time. I-49 just became part of the closure list when the north section opened. At times even long stretches of I-49 south of Shreveport have also been closed.

LA-3132 is the continuing freeway south from I-220 @ I-20. It generally remains open even when I-220 & I-49 N close.  The barrels that are already in place to be deployed, force traffic on NB LA-3132 to exit at I-20.
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r15-1

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I think much of the trigger-happy I-49 closure mentality dates back to construction of I-220, especially when the loop was completed when the Cross Lake bridge opened.

I-220 has always been closed by the Shreveport district of LaDOTD at the first hint of winter precip. I understand closing the Cross Lake Bridge to eliminate accident risk over the water supply, but the whole loop is usually closed at one time. I-49 just became part of the closure list when the north section opened. At times even long stretches of I-49 south of Shreveport have also been closed.

LA-3132 is the continuing freeway south from I-220 @ I-20. It generally remains open even when I-220 & I-49 N close.  The barrels that are already in place to be deployed, force traffic on NB LA-3132 to exit at I-20.
Fewer long bridges on LA 3132 than on I-220. Red River bridge in addition to Cross Lake.
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bwana39

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I think much of the trigger-happy I-49 closure mentality dates back to construction of I-220, especially when the loop was completed when the Cross Lake bridge opened.

I-220 has always been closed by the Shreveport district of LaDOTD at the first hint of winter precip. I understand closing the Cross Lake Bridge to eliminate accident risk over the water supply, but the whole loop is usually closed at one time. I-49 just became part of the closure list when the north section opened. At times even long stretches of I-49 south of Shreveport have also been closed.



LA-3132 is the continuing freeway south from I-220 @ I-20. It generally remains open even when I-220 & I-49 N close.  The barrels that are already in place to be deployed, force traffic on NB LA-3132 to exit at I-20.
Fewer long bridges on LA 3132 than on I-220. Red River bridge in addition to Cross Lake.

As I-220 goes, I-49 does not have this issue.  The longest bridge on I-49 north of I-220 is the US-71 overpass just south of Hosston. While it is longer than the LA-3132 overpass over US-171 and UPRR, the curve and elevation change renders that moot.

I agree they close I-220 at the first hint of winter precipitation, they tend to close I-49 north of town even earlier. The word hint is quite literal. They have jumped the gun a time or two. The precipitation eventually came, but it would be closed for a commute cycle before it even started.
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bwana39

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Call me shocked. There is a little bit of sleet farther north and temps are projected below freezing (it is drizzling rain in SHreveport).

LADOTD was out treating I-49 between MLK and North Market.  So perhaps, the barrels don't come out tonight?
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