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Author Topic: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY  (Read 4275 times)

usends

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Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« on: March 13, 2021, 07:15:06 PM »

Trying to figure out what happened to the terminus of US 209 after the first half of the US 9W bypass was built.  Below I reference this Google map, which is based on the only historic maps I've been able to find (USGS topos and a 1940 census map of Kingston).

The original US 9W followed the routing I've marked with a purple line (Ulster Av - Albany Av - Broadway - McEntee - Wurts). 
The original US 209 followed the red line, terminating at the red dot (Albany and Broadway).
By the late 1930s, the north half of the US 9W bypass was built (green line).  At Flatbush Av, US 9W went straight through, becoming Chester St and reconnecting with its original route at Broadway.  So at that time, how did US 209 connect with US 9W?
 * Did the original US 9W become Business 9W, and US 209 still terminated at the same junction (red dot)?
 * Was US 209 extended east on Broadway, ending at the green dot?
 * Was US 209 extended north on Albany, ending at the purple dot?
 * Or did US 209 have a split terminus, ending at both locations?

(By the 1960s US 209 had been rerouted to its current terminus.  The southern half of the US 9W bypass (orange line) wasn't built until long after that, so that had no impact on US 209's route.)

Anyone have access to historic NYSDOT maps that might shed some light on these questions?
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Alps

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Re: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2021, 11:07:40 PM »

I would be shocked if it was Business 9W. That's not how NY rolls. 209 likely followed one of the two purple lines, and my money's on heading east through downtown.

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Re: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2021, 10:34:05 AM »

1936 Gen Draft shows it following former 9W north to new 9W...

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Re: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2021, 12:11:09 PM »

1936 Gen Draft shows it following former 9W north to new 9W...

http://www.vahighways.com/209_1936.jpg
Take my money, that makes sense.

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Re: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2021, 01:23:55 PM »

1936 Gen Draft shows it following former 9W north to new 9W...

Interesting... yet this 1940 RMN seems to suggest that 209 followed the former 9W south:
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Re: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2021, 07:51:14 PM »

Proof NY 28 was extended on the east/south former US 9W portion?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KINGSTON-NEW-YORK-GOV-CLINTON-MARKET-GROCERY-STORE-OLD-CARS-POSTCARD-COPY/372678755276?hash=item56c56283cc:g:srgAAOSwuIRc7C~8

Isn't that also a "NY 9W" marker visible there?

Yes...it says “to 9w south” and is what helps establish NY 28 was extended over the east/south half of former 9W.
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Re: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2021, 11:36:31 PM »

1936 Gen Draft shows it following former 9W north to new 9W...

Interesting... yet this 1940 RMN seems to suggest that 209 followed the former 9W south:

If 28 is red, then red isn't limited to US highways, so no guarantee 209 isn't blue.

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Re: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2021, 10:22:36 AM »

Proof NY 28 was extended on the east/south former US 9W portion?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KINGSTON-NEW-YORK-GOV-CLINTON-MARKET-GROCERY-STORE-OLD-CARS-POSTCARD-COPY/372678755276?hash=item56c56283cc:g:srgAAOSwuIRc7C~8

Isn't that also a "NY 9W" marker visible there?

Yes...it says “to 9w south” and is what helps establish NY 28 was extended over the east/south half of former 9W.

What was the location of that photo?
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Re: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2021, 02:33:08 PM »

per internet search of that business name, 777 Broadway:  https://goo.gl/maps/AWGP793HG8uYyQR46

Window styles have changed but their edges seem right...

The Albany Ave diagonal between Broadway at St James has been there a long time which might be why there is no US 209 shield on the post card.

Still trying to find other map sources...
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Re: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2021, 03:30:31 PM »

Here is a picture that unambiguously has Broadway well east of Albany Ave showing a NY 28 shield.  Zoom in and it is on the last column of the bus station building.

https://cdm16694.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/fhk/id/1132/rec/29

This is Broadway at Pine Grove/Prince (none of these buildings appear to be here now).
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Re: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2021, 06:06:21 PM »

Any reason why the limited access portion of 9W in Kingston ends at Flatbush Rd?
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Re: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2021, 02:34:33 PM »

1945 city map shows 9W on old and new, so isn't helpful (but note that 209 is marked on the north leg of the wye and 28 on the south leg): https://catalog.archives.gov/id/24737262
1940 NYSDPW county map shows the bypass as CR 57! https://catalog.archives.gov/id/24737266

Oh shit, here we go. 1949-50 official (from Application_NY_1947_9_US in the AASHO archive):


And from Correspondence_NY_1958__INTERSTATE (2):



Keep in mind that NY is a state that doesn't maintain many routes through cities. So they didn't need to assign a number to the south leg, but since the north leg left Kingston, it needed a number.
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Re: Original US 209 and US 9W in Kingston NY
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2021, 06:52:31 PM »

Nice, thanks!  That AASHO archive is a treasure trove, but I wish the documents were indexed more accurately.
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