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Interstate 15 north of Barstow to the State Line

Started by Max Rockatansky, April 08, 2021, 03:26:59 PM

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Sub-Urbanite

Taking a look at the ATR data at Primm, Friday and Sunday are at about 120% of ADT, about 45,000 vehicles per day on those days, vs. 30,000 on the lowest day (Tuesday and Wednesday).

It's notable that about 4,600 people a day fly the route. To me, that gets back to the fundamental question: Is your infrastructure investment going to go further by improving non-vehicle transit options, whether it's more regular airport service or Brightline West, or by just ripping up some more of the Mojave and adding a lane or alternate route?


Plutonic Panda

I'm sure the 0.0000004 percent of the desert that will be taken by a new lane won't affect much.

Max Rockatansky

#77
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 11, 2022, 01:12:13 PM
I'm sure the 0.0000004 percent of the desert that will be taken by a new lane won't affect much.

The Sierra Club would try to still file a court injunction protesting 1 page out of 1,200 on an EIS about the habitat of the Arrowhead Trail Salamander.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 11, 2022, 01:17:41 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 11, 2022, 01:12:13 PM
I'm sure the 0.0000004 percent of the desert that will be taken by a new lane won't affect much.

The Sierra Club would try to still file a court injunction protesting 1 page out of 1,200 on an EIS about the habitat of the Arrowhead Trail Salamander.
That sounds about right. But I suspect this not happening has more to do with CalTrans lack of desire to address this more than anything.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: roadfro on December 05, 2021, 03:19:27 PM
Quote from: roadfro on November 02, 2021, 10:33:05 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on November 02, 2021, 06:40:46 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2021, 06:32:48 PM
Unlikely.  Nevada isn't the problem pertaining to expansion of I-15, it's just California.  The real issue is Barstow-Nevada State Line.
Exactly. And SW direction is the problem, in California, generally on Sundays or the end of long Holiday weekends. <...>
The problem is all because I-15 is 3 Lanes in Nevada, but the third lane drops at Primm right before the state line. I wonder if it would help if CalTrans widened I-15 southbound just to the agriculture checkpoint–that's a natural choke point anyway, and if they actually stopped passenger cars then it would act somewhat as a meter feeding back in to two lanes.

Ask and ye shall receive, I guess... In a joint press conference this morning, California Governor Newsom & Nevada Governor Sisolak announced that Caltrans is working on an "immediate relief" project to address the southbound congestion at the state line.

Sisolak, Newsom promise "˜immediate relief' for I-15 traffic at Nevada-California border, Las Vegas Review-Journal, 12/5/2021
Quote from: Las Vegas Review-Journal<...>
Newsom said they will take the shoulder about five miles south of the border and make it a third lane during peak hours. The project will cost about $12 million, but Newsom says existing money will be used to complete the project. He says it will be done by Summer 2022, but a more permanent solution is still needed.
<...>

If you watch the video included in the article (which starts during Q&A after the actual announcement), the impetus for this was apparently Governor Sisolak making a phone call to Governor Newsom to look into it, and in a subsequent call Sisolak also stating that the first response "wasn't good enough".

A quick measure on Google Maps indicates it's about 5.4 miles from the NV/CA state line to the point where the I-15 SB lanes start to widen out in approach to the agriculture checkpoint–so it looks like I was on to something! Peak period shoulder running isn't as good as a permanent third lane, but it should be a start.
Is there any update on this? No visible work has even started aside from what looks to be a bridge preservation project at Yates Well road. It was supposed to be complete by summer of 2022 and here we are going into fall and nothing.

roadfro

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 09, 2022, 02:44:11 AM
Is there any update on this? No visible work has even started aside from what looks to be a bridge preservation project at Yates Well road. It was supposed to be complete by summer of 2022 and here we are going into fall and nothing.

Yes. Work started recently and is supposed to be completed this fall.

Roadwork may provide holiday relief for motorists headed to S. California, Mick Ackers, Las Vegas Review-Journal, 9/4/2022
Quote
<...>
Over 40 million people visit Las Vegas annually, with about 25 percent of those traveling between Southern California and Nevada. The volume of motorists can severely extend travel times on I-15 southbound on Sundays and Mondays, making the usually 4½ hour drive between Las Vegas and Los Angeles take as long as 10 hours on the busiest holidays.

Help to alleviate some of the pain is already underway.

A $12 million project is underway to restripe and repave the shoulder, allowing traffic to utilize it as a third lane during times of high traffic like Labor Day.

Nevada Gov. Steve Sisolak and California Gov. Gavin Newsome announced the project last December at a joint press conference near the border of the two states.

The improvement project on both the Nevada and California sides of I-15 southbound began Aug. 22 and is slated to wrap up later this fall, according to Nevada Department of Transportation spokeswoman Rosa Mendez.
<...>
To further help with traffic flow, NDOT is also installing a ramp meter and directional signage at the Primm Boulevard onramp to I-15 southbound. The project, which includes adding flashing beacon signs and intelligent transportation system equipment, is expected to be completed by the end of the year.
<...>
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Plutonic Panda

^^^ good to know I did see them working on a bridge that seems like it would have to be reconstructed in order for any mainline widening to occur even though they're saying that it's just going to be peak shoulder usage the bridge peers are too close to the freeway.

FredAkbar

Quote from: roadfro on September 11, 2022, 05:56:03 PM
Roadwork may provide holiday relief for motorists headed to S. California, Mick Ackers, Las Vegas Review-Journal, 9/4/2022

Several minor mistakes in that article:

- The photo is captioned "Southbound Interstate-15 traffic builds at mile mark 5 north Primm" -- beyond the strange wording, it seems to be inaccurate, as the photo clearly shows mile marker 22 (which is much more "impressive")
- It mentions the frequent backups "near Jean or even further south" -- should be "even further north"
- It misspells Gavin Newsom's name

Nevertheless, I appreciate that there's reporting on this. I'm surprised Nevada/Sisolak aren't operating with more urgency given that the midterms are coming, but most of the work seems to be on the California side of the border so maybe their hands are tied.

The Ghostbuster

Yeah, they should have named the governor "Gavin Nuisance" !

skluth

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 12, 2022, 01:37:51 PM
Yeah, they should have named the governor "Gavin Nuisance" !

Let's keep the politics out of it. I don't complain about your politicians. Don't complain about mine.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: skluth on September 12, 2022, 05:14:25 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 12, 2022, 01:37:51 PM
Yeah, they should have named the governor "Gavin Nuisance" !

Let's keep the politics out of it. I don't complain about your politicians. Don't complain about mine.
Allow me then. The CA governor does suck and it isn't about politics it is his complete lack of care about this situation which could easily be resolved with the amount of money this state has. This isn't Mississippi where the DOT/state can't afford it. This is a situation of "I don't care."  

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 12, 2022, 05:37:06 PM
Quote from: skluth on September 12, 2022, 05:14:25 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 12, 2022, 01:37:51 PM
Yeah, they should have named the governor "Gavin Nuisance" !

Let's keep the politics out of it. I don't complain about your politicians. Don't complain about mine.
Allow me then. The CA governor does suck and it isn't about politics it is his complete lack of care about this situation which could easily be resolved with the amount of money this state has. This isn't Mississippi where the DOT/state can't afford it. This is a situation of "I don't care."

If I were to offer a semi-political opinion, the issues on I-15 traffic north of Barstow truly are the fault of California in three regards:

-  California failed to upgrade the corridor to six lanes as Nevada as done with their share I-15 from the State Line to Las Vegas.
-  The location of the new Agricultural Station basically is placed in a location which made an existing problem worse.
-  Holding onto the antiquated notion that passenger traffic needs to be stopped and/or slowed for agricultural inspection.

While I don't agree with the concept of bottlenecking all expansion highway projects amid a blanket theory that it will somehow promote other forms of transportation and carpooling that is State mentality at present moment, it isn't likely to change soon.  That said, I really don't understand to need to stop/slow passenger traffic in the middle of an active freeway grade like California does with the agriculture inspection stations.  Almost no other state stops/slows passenger traffic much less on an active road grade.  Florida (where I lived previously) was a heavily agricultural centric state too and had freight traffic pull off to inspection stations at grade separated facilities. 

To make matters worse, the Yermo Ag Station was located far enough inland that it wasn't typically causing monster backups and at least could be bypassed by those with knowledge of Yermo Road.  I've heard the argument by many that the backups at the state line aren't something California shouldn't be paying for, I beg to differ.  The above situation has been caused by California and they ought to be part of the solution in terms of being minimally cooperative with a neighboring state. 

For a while Governor Newsom stuck me being as being standoffish in terms of finding a solution to the state line backup.  Substantial pressure was applied by many interested parties and a solution was agreed upon, it just needs to be built.  Problem is that even small expansions don't get built overnight and rarely please anyone during the process of construction.

Plutonic Panda

^^^ I do agree the agricultural checkpoint stations are ridiculous and I've made how I feel about that know. I also will add a fair number of a mileage if I-15 between Barstow and NV state line technically has 3 lanes each way if you count climbing lanes.

DenverBrian

CA doesn't even need to go full six lanes from the state line to Barstow. Three or four truck lanes, each 2-3 miles long, would go a long way towards alleviating backups.

The ag station at the border affects southbound traffic only, not northbound.

Alps

You may all offer semi-political opinions ONLY AS IT RELATES TO ROADS. Nothing outside of that realm. So please, no opinions how you feel about any politician, only how you feel about their stances and policies that affect roads. Thanks.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Alps on September 12, 2022, 08:22:42 PM
You may all offer semi-political opinions ONLY AS IT RELATES TO ROADS. Nothing outside of that realm. So please, no opinions how you feel about any politician, only how you feel about their stances and policies that affect roads. Thanks.
I'm curious if my post is allowed then. Because my opinion of him is directly related to roads lol. I know to some that may be extreme but that's how much I care about road's especially this situation. At either rate at least he did SOMETHING about it. I know mayor Goodman of Las Vegas has been trying her best to stay on top of the situation. Maybe Newsom just did this to get her to shut up. Who knows.

Speaking of the agricultural station I left Vegas the other night and came through it at 3am. There wasn't even anyone there.

pderocco

In the days of manned toll plazas, it was de rigeur to fan the roads out to large numbers of lanes. Why couldn't they do that for the ag station? It's not like land is really expensive in Ivanpah...

skluth

^^^
My point is that no California administration, Dem or Rep, has bothered to fix a growing problem along I-15 for decades. To blame the current governor for the problem is basically saying this problem magically appeared in the last 2-3 years. The only change over the last few years is the moving of the ag inspection station closer to the border which was designed and implemented under Jerry Brown; it may even go back to Schwarzenegger, but in either case the planning and construction predates Newsom. That Newsom sees no need to prioritize something that previous administrations also chose to ignore is more a general California policy of not widening rural interstates to six lanes (see I-5 through San Juaquin Valley) than on Newsom.

I agree that I-15 should be widened between the ag station and Nevada, but that's not the only transportation problem facing California and it's mostly a severe bottleneck at the end of long weekends about a dozen times a year. But it's stupid to blame Newsom for a problem that's been around for decades even if it has gotten worse in the last couple years (which coincided with a pandemic which greatly reduced vacation travel if you hadn't noticed).

Road Hog

I just want to find the place where Hunter S. Thompson's drugs began to take hold.

All I got on I-15.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Road Hog on September 13, 2022, 04:09:41 PM
I just want to find the place where Hunter S. Thompson's drugs began to take hold.

All I got on I-15.

Probably accurate, it was built on the California side by the time book in question was written.

heynow415

Quote from: skluth on September 13, 2022, 12:36:16 PM
^^^
My point is that no California administration, Dem or Rep, has bothered to fix a growing problem along I-15 for decades. To blame the current governor for the problem is basically saying this problem magically appeared in the last 2-3 years. The only change over the last few years is the moving of the ag inspection station closer to the border which was designed and implemented under Jerry Brown; it may even go back to Schwarzenegger, but in either case the planning and construction predates Newsom. That Newsom sees no need to prioritize something that previous administrations also chose to ignore is more a general California policy of not widening rural interstates to six lanes (see I-5 through San Juaquin Valley) than on Newsom.

I agree that I-15 should be widened between the ag station and Nevada, but that's not the only transportation problem facing California and it's mostly a severe bottleneck at the end of long weekends about a dozen times a year. But it's stupid to blame Newsom for a problem that's been around for decades even if it has gotten worse in the last couple years (which coincided with a pandemic which greatly reduced vacation travel if you hadn't noticed).

Agree, and I'll add that in the grand scheme of things, politics (for either party) probably doesn't help in terms of setting priorities.  Truck/commercial traffic notwithstanding, why would this corridor rise to the top of the list when such a project would provide no real revenue benefits to the state?  Nevada and Las Vegas certainly benefit from the tourist/visitor dollars spent there so it certainly makes sense that Goodman and Sisolak are hammering on CA to make it easy for people to get there, but for CA government there are more than enough other corridors that need attention where making improvements does have a net positive fiscal impact.  As the old saying goes:  follow the money . . .

Sub-Urbanite

Quote from: heynow415 on September 14, 2022, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: skluth on September 13, 2022, 12:36:16 PM
^^^
My point is that no California administration, Dem or Rep, has bothered to fix a growing problem along I-15 for decades. To blame the current governor for the problem is basically saying this problem magically appeared in the last 2-3 years. The only change over the last few years is the moving of the ag inspection station closer to the border which was designed and implemented under Jerry Brown; it may even go back to Schwarzenegger, but in either case the planning and construction predates Newsom. That Newsom sees no need to prioritize something that previous administrations also chose to ignore is more a general California policy of not widening rural interstates to six lanes (see I-5 through San Juaquin Valley) than on Newsom.

I agree that I-15 should be widened between the ag station and Nevada, but that's not the only transportation problem facing California and it's mostly a severe bottleneck at the end of long weekends about a dozen times a year. But it's stupid to blame Newsom for a problem that's been around for decades even if it has gotten worse in the last couple years (which coincided with a pandemic which greatly reduced vacation travel if you hadn't noticed).

Agree, and I'll add that in the grand scheme of things, politics (for either party) probably doesn't help in terms of setting priorities.  Truck/commercial traffic notwithstanding, why would this corridor rise to the top of the list when such a project would provide no real revenue benefits to the state?  Nevada and Las Vegas certainly benefit from the tourist/visitor dollars spent there so it certainly makes sense that Goodman and Sisolak are hammering on CA to make it easy for people to get there, but for CA government there are more than enough other corridors that need attention where making improvements does have a net positive fiscal impact.  As the old saying goes:  follow the money . . .

I seem to recall that it was Nevada that paid directly for a big chunk of the turn-of-the-century improvements to I-15 in California, with other funding coming from earmarks spearheaded by Sen. Harry Reid, D-Not California.

roadfro

Quote from: Sub-Urbanite on September 14, 2022, 04:59:13 PM
Quote from: heynow415 on September 14, 2022, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: skluth on September 13, 2022, 12:36:16 PM
^^^
My point is that no California administration, Dem or Rep, has bothered to fix a growing problem along I-15 for decades. To blame the current governor for the problem is basically saying this problem magically appeared in the last 2-3 years. The only change over the last few years is the moving of the ag inspection station closer to the border which was designed and implemented under Jerry Brown; it may even go back to Schwarzenegger, but in either case the planning and construction predates Newsom. That Newsom sees no need to prioritize something that previous administrations also chose to ignore is more a general California policy of not widening rural interstates to six lanes (see I-5 through San Juaquin Valley) than on Newsom.

I agree that I-15 should be widened between the ag station and Nevada, but that's not the only transportation problem facing California and it's mostly a severe bottleneck at the end of long weekends about a dozen times a year. But it's stupid to blame Newsom for a problem that's been around for decades even if it has gotten worse in the last couple years (which coincided with a pandemic which greatly reduced vacation travel if you hadn't noticed).

Agree, and I'll add that in the grand scheme of things, politics (for either party) probably doesn't help in terms of setting priorities.  Truck/commercial traffic notwithstanding, why would this corridor rise to the top of the list when such a project would provide no real revenue benefits to the state?  Nevada and Las Vegas certainly benefit from the tourist/visitor dollars spent there so it certainly makes sense that Goodman and Sisolak are hammering on CA to make it easy for people to get there, but for CA government there are more than enough other corridors that need attention where making improvements does have a net positive fiscal impact.  As the old saying goes:  follow the money . . .

I seem to recall that it was Nevada that paid directly for a big chunk of the turn-of-the-century improvements to I-15 in California, with other funding coming from earmarks spearheaded by Sen. Harry Reid, D-Not California.

If I recall correctly, there was a contribution toward California I-15 improvements not from Nevada/NDOT, but some other entity like the Las Vegas Convention & Visitors Authority.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

jdbx

Quote from: roadfro on September 15, 2022, 12:08:25 PM
Quote from: Sub-Urbanite on September 14, 2022, 04:59:13 PM
Quote from: heynow415 on September 14, 2022, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: skluth on September 13, 2022, 12:36:16 PM
^^^
My point is that no California administration, Dem or Rep, has bothered to fix a growing problem along I-15 for decades. To blame the current governor for the problem is basically saying this problem magically appeared in the last 2-3 years. The only change over the last few years is the moving of the ag inspection station closer to the border which was designed and implemented under Jerry Brown; it may even go back to Schwarzenegger, but in either case the planning and construction predates Newsom. That Newsom sees no need to prioritize something that previous administrations also chose to ignore is more a general California policy of not widening rural interstates to six lanes (see I-5 through San Juaquin Valley) than on Newsom.

I agree that I-15 should be widened between the ag station and Nevada, but that's not the only transportation problem facing California and it's mostly a severe bottleneck at the end of long weekends about a dozen times a year. But it's stupid to blame Newsom for a problem that's been around for decades even if it has gotten worse in the last couple years (which coincided with a pandemic which greatly reduced vacation travel if you hadn't noticed).

Agree, and I'll add that in the grand scheme of things, politics (for either party) probably doesn't help in terms of setting priorities.  Truck/commercial traffic notwithstanding, why would this corridor rise to the top of the list when such a project would provide no real revenue benefits to the state?  Nevada and Las Vegas certainly benefit from the tourist/visitor dollars spent there so it certainly makes sense that Goodman and Sisolak are hammering on CA to make it easy for people to get there, but for CA government there are more than enough other corridors that need attention where making improvements does have a net positive fiscal impact.  As the old saying goes:  follow the money . . .

I seem to recall that it was Nevada that paid directly for a big chunk of the turn-of-the-century improvements to I-15 in California, with other funding coming from earmarks spearheaded by Sen. Harry Reid, D-Not California.

If I recall correctly, there was a contribution toward California I-15 improvements not from Nevada/NDOT, but some other entity like the Las Vegas Convention & Visitors Authority.

This seems like a case where building an extra lane (or 2) as a tolled express facility would accomplish the improvements, while ensuring that the people benefiting from it are the ones who are paying for it. I have suggested a similar option for I-5 in the central valley as an alternative to the HSR boondoggle.

MarkF

I went though there the day after Labor Day (have to take an extra day off to avoid horrendous traffic), not much work to see yet on the stretch from the border to the inspection station, other than some paving on the left side and work at the Yates Well Road overpass:

https://youtu.be/8-xSF9qgraQ




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