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Author Topic: Concrete lanes  (Read 7475 times)

abqtraveler

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2021, 03:43:16 PM »

Generally makes sense.  Flexible (asphalt) pavement in frost belt states, and use of rigid (PCCP) concrete in southern states.   Not sure why states with extreme winter temperatures and conditions (Pennsylvania as a leading example) were so fixed on concrete for initial Interstate construction.  Much of it was toast by the early eighties.   Leading to perennial dowel and joint repairs.   
Did find the concrete pavement in Connecticut fascinating as a kid though, in the seventies.  Along with the flyovers, left exits, and stubs, both going into the woods, or extending into mid-air.

In a general sense it would be logical to use concrete in the southern states and asphalt up north. However, there are some northern states, notably Indiana, Illinois, Nebraska and Wyoming that are paving a lot of their freeways with concrete. Conversely, New Mexico and Arizona almost exclusively use asphalt to pave their roads.
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2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 37, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

DJStephens

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2021, 04:51:21 PM »

Generally makes sense.  Flexible (asphalt) pavement in frost belt states, and use of rigid (PCCP) concrete in southern states.   Not sure why states with extreme winter temperatures and conditions (Pennsylvania as a leading example) were so fixed on concrete for initial Interstate construction.  Much of it was toast by the early eighties.   Leading to perennial dowel and joint repairs.   
Did find the concrete pavement in Connecticut fascinating as a kid though, in the seventies.  Along with the flyovers, left exits, and stubs, both going into the woods, or extending into mid-air.

In a general sense it would be logical to use concrete in the southern states and asphalt up north. However, there are some northern states, notably Indiana, Illinois, Nebraska and Wyoming that are paving a lot of their freeways with concrete. Conversely, New Mexico and Arizona almost exclusively use asphalt to pave their roads.

Most of the newer loops in Phoenix were done originally with concrete.  (101, 202, etc) They were later covered with an "asphalt friction course" that believe was done for noise reduction.   This friction course has not held up well in many areas.  It split and fractured at the diagonal saw cuts.  High summer temperatures also caused it to rut and move.  In West Tucson, on I-10, they ground it off and re-striped the underlying concrete.   The new six lane section of I-10 in Picacho / Eloy is built with concrete. 
Much of New Mexicos's I-10 and I-40 were initinally constructed with concrete pavement.  Bad mix design, and alkali silica reactions doomed much of it to early overlay.  Uneven settlement plagued other sections.    The last ORIGINAL sections remember existing were:
I-25 - south of Albuquerque - between Broadway and Rio Bravo.  Most of the remainder of 25 never had original concrete pavement.   
I-10 in las Cruces immediate environs.  Was extension/ or part of earlier concrete that extended W - towards Deming, and S - towards Anthony.  The las Cruces concrete on 10 survived until the very late 00's when it was rubbilized, not just overlaid, and replaced with asphalt.   
I-40 reconstruction in Albuquerque (almost constant since mid 80s) has featured new concrete in some areas.   
There is a short 10-12 mile stretch of concrete pavement on US 62/180 WB between Carlsbad and Hobbs.  It is in fair to poor condition and is likely being monitored as some sort of experiment.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 04:58:03 PM by DJStephens »
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abqtraveler

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2021, 10:11:56 AM »

Generally makes sense.  Flexible (asphalt) pavement in frost belt states, and use of rigid (PCCP) concrete in southern states.   Not sure why states with extreme winter temperatures and conditions (Pennsylvania as a leading example) were so fixed on concrete for initial Interstate construction.  Much of it was toast by the early eighties.   Leading to perennial dowel and joint repairs.   
Did find the concrete pavement in Connecticut fascinating as a kid though, in the seventies.  Along with the flyovers, left exits, and stubs, both going into the woods, or extending into mid-air.

In a general sense it would be logical to use concrete in the southern states and asphalt up north. However, there are some northern states, notably Indiana, Illinois, Nebraska and Wyoming that are paving a lot of their freeways with concrete. Conversely, New Mexico and Arizona almost exclusively use asphalt to pave their roads.

Most of the newer loops in Phoenix were done originally with concrete.  (101, 202, etc) They were later covered with an "asphalt friction course" that believe was done for noise reduction.   This friction course has not held up well in many areas.  It split and fractured at the diagonal saw cuts.  High summer temperatures also caused it to rut and move.  In West Tucson, on I-10, they ground it off and re-striped the underlying concrete.   The new six lane section of I-10 in Picacho / Eloy is built with concrete. 
Much of New Mexicos's I-10 and I-40 were initinally constructed with concrete pavement.  Bad mix design, and alkali silica reactions doomed much of it to early overlay.  Uneven settlement plagued other sections.    The last ORIGINAL sections remember existing were:
I-25 - south of Albuquerque - between Broadway and Rio Bravo.  Most of the remainder of 25 never had original concrete pavement.   
I-10 in las Cruces immediate environs.  Was extension/ or part of earlier concrete that extended W - towards Deming, and S - towards Anthony.  The las Cruces concrete on 10 survived until the very late 00's when it was rubbilized, not just overlaid, and replaced with asphalt.   
I-40 reconstruction in Albuquerque (almost constant since mid 80s) has featured new concrete in some areas.   
There is a short 10-12 mile stretch of concrete pavement on US 62/180 WB between Carlsbad and Hobbs.  It is in fair to poor condition and is likely being monitored as some sort of experiment.
There are four sections of I-40 that I know of that were fairly recently (within the last 20 years or so) paved in concrete:  1) around Gallup; 2) in Albuquerque from the Coors Boulevard interchange to the Big I (I-25); 3) from Louisiana Boulevard in Albuquerque to east of the Carnuel interchange (MP 163 to 172); and 4) around Sedillo Hill between MP 180 and 183.

If there were other sections of I-40 that were previously paved in concrete, that concrete must have been removed or rubblized and replaced with asphalt, as I have seen them completely reconstruct sections of I-40 all the way down to the roadbed and have not noticed any underlying concrete when they removed the asphalt surface. One project in particular I recall they milled one layer or asphalt after the next until they got down to the roadbed, and then they regraded the roadbed, laid down crushed aggregate, and placed about 5 layers of asphalt totaling about 20 inches in thickness, and called it good.
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2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 37, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

Mergingtraffic

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2021, 04:43:33 PM »

US-40/I-170 in Baltimore
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webny99

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2021, 05:15:39 PM »

The NYS Thruway between Weedsport and Warners is another example.
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DJStephens

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2021, 10:02:19 PM »

Generally makes sense.  Flexible (asphalt) pavement in frost belt states, and use of rigid (PCCP) concrete in southern states.   Not sure why states with extreme winter temperatures and conditions (Pennsylvania as a leading example) were so fixed on concrete for initial Interstate construction.  Much of it was toast by the early eighties.   Leading to perennial dowel and joint repairs.   
Did find the concrete pavement in Connecticut fascinating as a kid though, in the seventies.  Along with the flyovers, left exits, and stubs, both going into the woods, or extending into mid-air.

In a general sense it would be logical to use concrete in the southern states and asphalt up north. However, there are some northern states, notably Indiana, Illinois, Nebraska and Wyoming that are paving a lot of their freeways with concrete. Conversely, New Mexico and Arizona almost exclusively use asphalt to pave their roads.

Most of the newer loops in Phoenix were done originally with concrete.  (101, 202, etc) They were later covered with an "asphalt friction course" that believe was done for noise reduction.   This friction course has not held up well in many areas.  It split and fractured at the diagonal saw cuts.  High summer temperatures also caused it to rut and move.  In West Tucson, on I-10, they ground it off and re-striped the underlying concrete.   The new six lane section of I-10 in Picacho / Eloy is built with concrete. 
Much of New Mexicos's I-10 and I-40 were initinally constructed with concrete pavement.  Bad mix design, and alkali silica reactions doomed much of it to early overlay.  Uneven settlement plagued other sections.    The last ORIGINAL sections remember existing were:
I-25 - south of Albuquerque - between Broadway and Rio Bravo.  Most of the remainder of 25 never had original concrete pavement.   
I-10 in las Cruces immediate environs.  Was extension/ or part of earlier concrete that extended W - towards Deming, and S - towards Anthony.  The las Cruces concrete on 10 survived until the very late 00's when it was rubbilized, not just overlaid, and replaced with asphalt.   
I-40 reconstruction in Albuquerque (almost constant since mid 80s) has featured new concrete in some areas.   
There is a short 10-12 mile stretch of concrete pavement on US 62/180 WB between Carlsbad and Hobbs.  It is in fair to poor condition and is likely being monitored as some sort of experiment.
There are four sections of I-40 that I know of that were fairly recently (within the last 20 years or so) paved in concrete:  1) around Gallup; 2) in Albuquerque from the Coors Boulevard interchange to the Big I (I-25); 3) from Louisiana Boulevard in Albuquerque to east of the Carnuel interchange (MP 163 to 172); and 4) around Sedillo Hill between MP 180 and 183.

If there were other sections of I-40 that were previously paved in concrete, that concrete must have been removed or rubblized and replaced with asphalt, as I have seen them completely reconstruct sections of I-40 all the way down to the roadbed and have not noticed any underlying concrete when they removed the asphalt surface. One project in particular I recall they milled one layer or asphalt after the next until they got down to the roadbed, and then they regraded the roadbed, laid down crushed aggregate, and placed about 5 layers of asphalt totaling about 20 inches in thickness, and called it good.

Yes you are likely correct.  Most of 40 in New mexico was probably originally asphalt.  Am not terribly familiar with the entire corridor, do not travel it very often.   Do recall full depth reconstructions E of Albuquerque - way east and there was no underlying concrete slabs.   
Most likely, it was 10 that was mostly concrete, originally.   
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mariethefoxy

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2021, 03:11:36 AM »

Long Island still has a few areas with some concrete sections

I-495 after the HOV lane ends in eastern suffolk
NY 25A in the vicinity of East Norwich
NY 27 Freeway section except for the oakdale merge area and the far east end near the hamptons.
Sunken Meadow and Sagtikos Parkways, it even got diamond cut to preserve it.
NY 231 the expressway part and some of Deer Park Avenue in North Babylon if I remeber right
Wantagh Parkway from Southern State to NY 27 Exit
Ocean Parkway has some concrete sections way past Tobay Beach and such.
Bay Parkway is still concrete from Wantagh to West End Beach
Meadowbrook Parkway from Exit M5 to M6
Merrick Road in the vicinity of Seaford and Wantagh

parts of NY112 might still be concrete, but I think they repaved it.
there were segments of NY114 in Shelter Island and Sag Harbor that had concrete last time I was there which was 2017
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abqtraveler

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2021, 09:27:12 AM »

Long Island still has a few areas with some concrete sections

I-495 after the HOV lane ends in eastern suffolk
NY 25A in the vicinity of East Norwich
NY 27 Freeway section except for the oakdale merge area and the far east end near the hamptons.
Sunken Meadow and Sagtikos Parkways, it even got diamond cut to preserve it.
NY 231 the expressway part and some of Deer Park Avenue in North Babylon if I remeber right
Wantagh Parkway from Southern State to NY 27 Exit
Ocean Parkway has some concrete sections way past Tobay Beach and such.
Bay Parkway is still concrete from Wantagh to West End Beach
Meadowbrook Parkway from Exit M5 to M6
Merrick Road in the vicinity of Seaford and Wantagh

parts of NY112 might still be concrete, but I think they repaved it.
there were segments of NY114 in Shelter Island and Sag Harbor that had concrete last time I was there which was 2017
About 10 years ago I drove I-684 from Brewster to White Plains, and at the time almost all of it was still concrete...in really bad shape, might I add. Anyone happen to know if 684 is still its original concrete or has it been resurfaced since I last drove it?
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2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 37, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

NoGoodNamesAvailable

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2021, 09:37:30 PM »

About 10 years ago I drove I-684 from Brewster to White Plains, and at the time almost all of it was still concrete...in really bad shape, might I add. Anyone happen to know if 684 is still its original concrete or has it been resurfaced since I last drove it?

Concrete's all gone. The last section of it near the Saw Mill interchange got replaced with asphalt recently.
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TheDon102

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2021, 04:24:58 PM »

Long Island still has a few areas with some concrete sections

I-495 after the HOV lane ends in eastern suffolk
NY 25A in the vicinity of East Norwich
NY 27 Freeway section except for the oakdale merge area and the far east end near the hamptons.
Sunken Meadow and Sagtikos Parkways, it even got diamond cut to preserve it.
NY 231 the expressway part and some of Deer Park Avenue in North Babylon if I remeber right
Wantagh Parkway from Southern State to NY 27 Exit
Ocean Parkway has some concrete sections way past Tobay Beach and such.
Bay Parkway is still concrete from Wantagh to West End Beach
Meadowbrook Parkway from Exit M5 to M6
Merrick Road in the vicinity of Seaford and Wantagh

parts of NY112 might still be concrete, but I think they repaved it.
there were segments of NY114 in Shelter Island and Sag Harbor that had concrete last time I was there which was 2017
About 10 years ago I drove I-684 from Brewster to White Plains, and at the time almost all of it was still concrete...in really bad shape, might I add. Anyone happen to know if 684 is still its original concrete or has it been resurfaced since I last drove it?

Much of it has been repaved, including the horrible section in Katonah which was done last year.
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abqtraveler

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2021, 06:14:53 PM »

Generally makes sense.  Flexible (asphalt) pavement in frost belt states, and use of rigid (PCCP) concrete in southern states.   Not sure why states with extreme winter temperatures and conditions (Pennsylvania as a leading example) were so fixed on concrete for initial Interstate construction.  Much of it was toast by the early eighties.   Leading to perennial dowel and joint repairs.   
Did find the concrete pavement in Connecticut fascinating as a kid though, in the seventies.  Along with the flyovers, left exits, and stubs, both going into the woods, or extending into mid-air.

In a general sense it would be logical to use concrete in the southern states and asphalt up north. However, there are some northern states, notably Indiana, Illinois, Nebraska and Wyoming that are paving a lot of their freeways with concrete. Conversely, New Mexico and Arizona almost exclusively use asphalt to pave their roads.

Most of the newer loops in Phoenix were done originally with concrete.  (101, 202, etc) They were later covered with an "asphalt friction course" that believe was done for noise reduction.   This friction course has not held up well in many areas.  It split and fractured at the diagonal saw cuts.  High summer temperatures also caused it to rut and move.  In West Tucson, on I-10, they ground it off and re-striped the underlying concrete.   The new six lane section of I-10 in Picacho / Eloy is built with concrete. 
Much of New Mexicos's I-10 and I-40 were initinally constructed with concrete pavement.  Bad mix design, and alkali silica reactions doomed much of it to early overlay.  Uneven settlement plagued other sections.    The last ORIGINAL sections remember existing were:
I-25 - south of Albuquerque - between Broadway and Rio Bravo.  Most of the remainder of 25 never had original concrete pavement.   
I-10 in las Cruces immediate environs.  Was extension/ or part of earlier concrete that extended W - towards Deming, and S - towards Anthony.  The las Cruces concrete on 10 survived until the very late 00's when it was rubbilized, not just overlaid, and replaced with asphalt.   
I-40 reconstruction in Albuquerque (almost constant since mid 80s) has featured new concrete in some areas.   
There is a short 10-12 mile stretch of concrete pavement on US 62/180 WB between Carlsbad and Hobbs.  It is in fair to poor condition and is likely being monitored as some sort of experiment.
There are four sections of I-40 that I know of that were fairly recently (within the last 20 years or so) paved in concrete:  1) around Gallup; 2) in Albuquerque from the Coors Boulevard interchange to the Big I (I-25); 3) from Louisiana Boulevard in Albuquerque to east of the Carnuel interchange (MP 163 to 172); and 4) around Sedillo Hill between MP 180 and 183.

If there were other sections of I-40 that were previously paved in concrete, that concrete must have been removed or rubblized and replaced with asphalt, as I have seen them completely reconstruct sections of I-40 all the way down to the roadbed and have not noticed any underlying concrete when they removed the asphalt surface. One project in particular I recall they milled one layer or asphalt after the next until they got down to the roadbed, and then they regraded the roadbed, laid down crushed aggregate, and placed about 5 layers of asphalt totaling about 20 inches in thickness, and called it good.

Yes you are likely correct.  Most of 40 in New mexico was probably originally asphalt.  Am not terribly familiar with the entire corridor, do not travel it very often.   Do recall full depth reconstructions E of Albuquerque - way east and there was no underlying concrete slabs.   
Most likely, it was 10 that was mostly concrete, originally.   
Might I caveat that in Albuquerque, a lot of major intersections and their approaches are paved in concrete. The problem here is during the summer, the asphalt softens in the heat. Idling traffic near intersections causes the asphalt pavement to develop ruts. There are some stretches of road near a few major intersections that are still paved with asphalt. A few of those were resurfaced within the past couple of years and are completely rutted.  Thus the city got smart and started paving its major intersections with concrete, but there are a lot of intersections and a finite amount of money in the budget.
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storm2k

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2021, 10:41:46 PM »

The stretch of the Henry Hudson Parkway from Dyckman Street up to the Henry Hudson Bridge is all concrete. I think part of it is on a viaduct, but even the parts that aren't are concrete.
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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2021, 03:18:25 PM »

I hate to say this, but concrete is better and lasts longer than asphalt. Maybe they weren't thinking straight when they first built the highway as concrete.
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Rothman

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2021, 05:28:16 PM »

I hate to say this, but concrete is better and lasts longer than asphalt. Maybe they weren't thinking straight when they first built the highway as concrete.
Read that slowly again.
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abqtraveler

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2021, 01:24:58 PM »

I did find a photo of the original I-40/I-25 interchange--known as the Big-I--in Albuquerque from when it opened in 1967, which provides some truth that at least some portions of New Mexico's freeways were originally paved in concrete. Most of the concrete-paved freeway sections in New Mexico are long gone, save for a few stretches of I-40 through Albuquerque, and around Gallup.

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DJStephens

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2021, 10:04:06 PM »

Am guessing the photograph shows a vantage point towards the E, with the Sandia Mtns in the background.   The stub in lower R of photo may validate this, believe final connection to open I-40 was made in 1969.   
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abqtraveler

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2021, 06:09:29 PM »

Am guessing the photograph shows a vantage point towards the E, with the Sandia Mtns in the background.   The stub in lower R of photo may validate this, believe final connection to open I-40 was made in 1969.

Yes, the photo is the Big-I facing east. They hadn't yet finished the I-40 bridge across the Rio Grande, thus the freeway stub at the lower right of the photo.
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2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 37, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

Interstatefan78

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Re: Concrete lanes
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2021, 06:10:29 PM »

NY Thruway
I-87 Exits 23-24 done in 2013 & 3 years before that Woodbury Exit 16 toll plaza EZ-Pass Express
I-90 I-490 to RT-332 followed by Exits 39-40 done in 2009-2010 which replaced the older liquid asphalt pavement 1950s design.
US-22 Allentown Area MP 317,325-328 and the last one being PA MP 337 to NJ MP 2 via the 1938 Easton-Phillipsburg Toll Bridge. Another Allentown Area concrete lanes are I-78 West exits 75-51 on the Eastbound side it's exit 51 to mp 63 Lehigh Northampton County Line then Exits 67-75 followed by PA-33 from I-78 exit 711 to US-22 East Exit.
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