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Author Topic: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019  (Read 2504 times)

westerninterloper

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2022, 03:38:37 PM »

Among the main reasons for population growth in much of the South is a combination of the ubiquitousness of air conditioning and lower taxes in many of the states. Texas, Florida, and Tennessee have no state income tax. Sixty years ago air conditioning was a rarity in many homes even in the South; now it's common in homes in Wisconsin and Minnesota.

Reasons for growth are dependent on local businesses, including many that have moved to the area. Charlotte was always a financial center and growth in that business has fueled much of that part of the Carolinas' population growth. Orlando and much of Florida has been a combination of tourist businesses and lots of old people. BMW and Volvo both make cars in South Carolina while Nissan and VW build cars in Tennessee (much of Nashville's growth is thanks to the Nissan plant in suburban Smyrna). Tech industries are a major reason for growth in Austin and the Raleigh-Durham area.

One last factor is the US military is bigger than it was 50 years ago and many of the major bases are in the South including Fort Bragg (the largest army base on Earth), Fort Campbell, Fort Hood, and Fort Benning. Tidewater is dominated by the Navy but still has Fort Eustas and Langley AFB. San Antonio sometimes feels like a giant air force base. Not surprisingly, a lot of former military take up residence near these bases for employment and, for retirees, access to services.

Add to that the South was and still largely is un-unionized, "right to work" as they like to say, which helped attract those major manufacturing plants in the first place.
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Scott5114

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2022, 04:31:29 PM »

There was a lot of debate around here a few years ago regarding state income tax, since eliminating it was a goal of our last governor. I remain unconvinced that state income tax is a major determining factor for where people choose to live. Things like quality of life and available employment in the desired line of work take much higher precedence over that. The only place it may be a factor is in metro areas near state lines, where one can choose between several different tax jurisdictions while quality of life and access to employment is more or less the same.

Even if you do choose a place to live based on the income tax rate, you may find that you're chasing a mirage. States with low income tax often more than make up for it in other ways, such as property taxes, sales taxes, various nickel-and-dime fees for doing business with the state government. (Oklahoma turned to a mandatory license plate reissue, with an attached fee, as a means of shoring up the budget one year. We also have an 4% state sales tax, which applies to groceries, un) So even if you pay no income tax, you may well end up actually paying more in taxes altogether.
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skluth

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2022, 05:23:58 PM »

^
I agree many people don't factor in which states have income tax. I obviously didn't, moving from Missouri to California to retire. But there are also many who do. I knew several people at my agency who retired specifically to Tennessee and Florida because of the lack of state income tax. It was certainly a factor for many I knew in the Navy years ago and especially for career military to would change their home state if they were stationed in a state with no income tax. I worked with several military over my civilian career and it seemed even more common in recent years than when I was enlisted.

I agree it's silly. I thought the overall taxes in Missouri weren't much different than what I paid in my original home state of Wisconsin despite the latter's high tax reputation in the 80's. My own experience was Wisconsin got you upfront while Missouri nickeled-and-dimed you with taxes. I've noticed much the same in California.
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Scott5114

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2022, 05:32:33 PM »

...And of course, there's the fact that some (not all) low tax states use that as a selling point only because they don't really have a lot else going for them. Sure, if you move to South Dakota, you don't have to pay taxes, but you also have to live in South Dakota...
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golden eagle

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2022, 08:25:50 AM »

Define "Southeast."

If you're talking about the region generally south of the 36th parallel and east of the Mississippi, then you have to include Baton Rouge, which has boomed as New Orleans has struggled post-Katrina.

If you include cities in the footprint of the Southeastern Conference in college athletics, the multitide of cities in the two northwesternmost counties of Arkansas are unrecognizable.

If you're using the SEC footprint, then much of the south's growth had been taking place in the SEC East states. However, Texas A&M joining the conference ten years ago does balance out the East's growth. Texas' four biggest urban areas are growing as fast, if not faster, than the East metros plus North Carolina. 
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Sctvhound

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2022, 01:53:09 AM »

The entire metro Charleston area (Charleston, Berkeley, Dorchester Counties) in 1979 was 425,000 or so people. In 2020 we are now 820,000 people and still growing. So itís basically doubled in just over 40 years. And the infrastructure hasnít really grown that fast.
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KCRoadFan

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2022, 02:03:50 AM »

Orlando has nowhere near an ideal climate. It regularly gets into the 90s with humidity, and the coast isn't even there to cool you down.

A bunch of waterparks are, though!
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Stephane Dumas

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2022, 09:59:59 AM »

The entire metro Charleston area (Charleston, Berkeley, Dorchester Counties) in 1979 was 425,000 or so people. In 2020 we are now 820,000 people and still growing. So itís basically doubled in just over 40 years. And the infrastructure hasnít really grown that fast.

Yeah and with no upgrades in infrastructure, Charleston would be more vulnerable if it was hit by an hurricane as strong as Katrina and if an other earthquake hit Charleston like the 1886 one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1886_Charleston_earthquake
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2022, 03:49:07 PM »

Orlando has nowhere near an ideal climate. It regularly gets into the 90s with humidity, and the coast isn't even there to cool you down.

A bunch of waterparks are, though!

My experience is that people would rather be too warm than too cold. Also, the heat becomes more manageable at night, and cold does not.
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Scott5114

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2022, 03:57:47 PM »

Orlando has nowhere near an ideal climate. It regularly gets into the 90s with humidity, and the coast isn't even there to cool you down.

A bunch of waterparks are, though!

My experience is that people would rather be too warm than too cold. Also, the heat becomes more manageable at night, and cold does not.

I mean...unless it doesn't. During the summer, it's not uncommon to remain in the 80s at night here. There's not really much you can do to manage the heat at that point other than strip naked and crank up the AC.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2022, 08:30:17 PM »

Orlando has nowhere near an ideal climate. It regularly gets into the 90s with humidity, and the coast isn't even there to cool you down.

A bunch of waterparks are, though!

My experience is that people would rather be too warm than too cold. Also, the heat becomes more manageable at night, and cold does not.

I mean...unless it doesn't. During the summer, it's not uncommon to remain in the 80s at night here. There's not really much you can do to manage the heat at that point other than strip naked and crank up the AC.

Yeah, you're right. That's my inexperience with that sort of climate. I knew better.
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tolbs17

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2022, 09:26:14 PM »

The Raleigh and the Myrtle Beach Metros are the fastest growing in the Southeast.

This is only going to put turbo speed on The Raleigh metro's growth given that Wake County is the most populous county in North Carolina now.

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f

Charlotte just has taller skyscrapers and a bigger airport, but it ain't no different when comparing it to Raleigh.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 09:29:04 PM by tolbs17 »
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chrisdiaz

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2022, 11:28:09 PM »

The Raleigh and the Myrtle Beach Metros are the fastest growing in the Southeast.

This is only going to put turbo speed on The Raleigh metro's growth given that Wake County is the most populous county in North Carolina now.

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f

Charlotte just has taller skyscrapers and a bigger airport, but it ain't no different when comparing it to Raleigh.

I can 100% agree with the Myrtle Beach fact. I have been coming and staying with family in MB for school breaks since I was a kid in 2010, and I live in the area now. The growth that has occurred even since then is crazy. We have a bypass for a bypass (SC 31 is a bypass of US 17, which is a bypass of Business US 17). The amount of home building here is crazy and so are the rate of increase in real estate prices.

I am looking forward to when Interstate 73 is built from I-95 down to the coast as it will provide an additional evacuation route for a booming population.

tolbs17

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2022, 11:44:14 PM »

I am looking forward to when Interstate 73 is built from I-95 down to the coast as it will provide an additional evacuation route for a booming population.
Hopefully when the infrastructure bill's money is distributed. Also they planned to add tolls on it which I don't like. That only means less traffic will use it.

The Carolina Bays Parkway too.

Also I-95 is another one that needs to be fixed.
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chrisdiaz

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2022, 11:58:21 PM »

I am looking forward to when Interstate 73 is built from I-95 down to the coast as it will provide an additional evacuation route for a booming population.
The Carolina Bays Parkway too.

What's annoying about 31 (the carolina bays parkway) is that it ends kind of abruptly at Highway 9. This is actually really close to where I live, so any time I go to the light at Highway 9 and Highway 57, there's always TONS of cars turning left from Highway 57 onto Highway 9 South, looking to get onto 31. This is the route that Google Maps tells 99% of drivers coming from anywhere near Wilmington, NC to take to get to Myrtle Beach.

Hopefully, when 31 is extended into North Carolina and has a proper intersection with US 17, it will alleviate traffic on Highways 57 and 9.

vdeane

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2022, 08:14:18 PM »

I am looking forward to when Interstate 73 is built from I-95 down to the coast as it will provide an additional evacuation route for a booming population.
Hopefully when the infrastructure bill's money is distributed. Also they planned to add tolls on it which I don't like. That only means less traffic will use it.

The Carolina Bays Parkway too.

Also I-95 is another one that needs to be fixed.
Hopefully if they do that they would finally get around to making PalmettoPass interoperable with E-ZPass and SunPass.
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TXtoNJ

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2022, 11:04:42 AM »

Among the main reasons for population growth in much of the South is a combination of the ubiquitousness of air conditioning and lower taxes in many of the states. Texas, Florida, and Tennessee have no state income tax. Sixty years ago air conditioning was a rarity in many homes even in the South; now it's common in homes in Wisconsin and Minnesota.

Reasons for growth are dependent on local businesses, including many that have moved to the area. Charlotte was always a financial center and growth in that business has fueled much of that part of the Carolinas' population growth. Orlando and much of Florida has been a combination of tourist businesses and lots of old people. BMW and Volvo both make cars in South Carolina while Nissan and VW build cars in Tennessee (much of Nashville's growth is thanks to the Nissan plant in suburban Smyrna). Tech industries are a major reason for growth in Austin and the Raleigh-Durham area.

One last factor is the US military is bigger than it was 50 years ago and many of the major bases are in the South including Fort Bragg (the largest army base on Earth), Fort Campbell, Fort Hood, and Fort Benning. Tidewater is dominated by the Navy but still has Fort Eustas and Langley AFB. San Antonio sometimes feels like a giant air force base. Not surprisingly, a lot of former military take up residence near these bases for employment and, for retirees, access to services.

Add to that the South was and still largely is un-unionized, "right to work" as they like to say, which helped attract those major manufacturing plants in the first place.

Yup. Air travel, telecom, and air conditioning made it possible to extract profit from cheaper labor in the South, while still living in a comfortable climate.
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jgb191

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2022, 02:38:23 PM »

So even if you pay no income tax, you may well end up actually paying more in taxes altogether.

I agree with you there, I know several people from California who moved here to Texas because of no state income taxes, but they either forgotten or never expected trade-offs:  And I was told from them that the savings from not paying income taxes went right into higher property taxes, sales taxes, state ID fees, vehicle registration taxes, etc.  Combine those with lower incomes salaries and wages here in Texas than in California, a couple of them ended up moving back to California, and a couple more kind of regretting leaving California.


I don't believe there is any coincidence that the words 'TEXAS' and 'TAXES' are spelled and sound similarly; there might be a reason for that.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2022, 08:42:08 PM »

So even if you pay no income tax, you may well end up actually paying more in taxes altogether.

I agree with you there, I know several people from California who moved here to Texas because of no state income taxes, but they either forgotten or never expected trade-offs:  And I was told from them that the savings from not paying income taxes went right into higher property taxes, sales taxes, state ID fees, vehicle registration taxes, etc.  Combine those with lower incomes salaries and wages here in Texas than in California, a couple of them ended up moving back to California, and a couple more kind of regretting leaving California.


I don't believe there is any coincidence that the words 'TEXAS' and 'TAXES' are spelled and sound similarly; there might be a reason for that.

I've heard more than a few stories like that, as Minnesota has no sales tax on food or clothing, which people who left found out the money they thought they were saving in a "lower tax" state washed out in those little extra expenses adding up.
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bing101

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2022, 12:29:17 AM »

The Raleigh and the Myrtle Beach Metros are the fastest growing in the Southeast.

This is only going to put turbo speed on The Raleigh metro's growth given that Wake County is the most populous county in North Carolina now.

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f

Charlotte just has taller skyscrapers and a bigger airport, but it ain't no different when comparing it to Raleigh.


Raleigh and the Research Triangle area has been hyped up as the Next Austin and the Southeast version of Silicon Valley because of hype surrounding the biotech industry and their VC's debating this area as an alternative to the San Francisco area. Interestingly the current population stats on Wake County, NC has a population similar to San Jose, CA at 1 million people.
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golden eagle

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2022, 04:13:27 PM »

The Raleigh and the Myrtle Beach Metros are the fastest growing in the Southeast.

This is only going to put turbo speed on The Raleigh metro's growth given that Wake County is the most populous county in North Carolina now.

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f

Charlotte just has taller skyscrapers and a bigger airport, but it ain't no different when comparing it to Raleigh.


Raleigh and the Research Triangle area has been hyped up as the Next Austin and the Southeast version of Silicon Valley because of hype surrounding the biotech industry and their VC's debating this area as an alternative to the San Francisco area. Interestingly the current population stats on Wake County, NC has a population similar to San Jose, CA at 1 million people.

Not only the next Austin, but I see Raleigh-Durham being the Dallas-Fort Worth of the east.
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bing101

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Re: Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2022, 12:14:17 PM »

The Raleigh and the Myrtle Beach Metros are the fastest growing in the Southeast.

This is only going to put turbo speed on The Raleigh metro's growth given that Wake County is the most populous county in North Carolina now.

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/money/business/apple-campus-raleigh-north-carolina/83-0286a052-dbf6-435f-9a28-9b0b04eb095f

Charlotte just has taller skyscrapers and a bigger airport, but it ain't no different when comparing it to Raleigh.


Raleigh and the Research Triangle area has been hyped up as the Next Austin and the Southeast version of Silicon Valley because of hype surrounding the biotech industry and their VC's debating this area as an alternative to the San Francisco area. Interestingly the current population stats on Wake County, NC has a population similar to San Jose, CA at 1 million people.

Not only the next Austin, but I see Raleigh-Durham being the Dallas-Fort Worth of the east.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_in_the_Dallas%E2%80%93Fort_Worth_metroplex
Good point too.
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