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I-73 updates?

Started by Buummu, April 27, 2011, 12:39:37 AM

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bulldog1979

Quote from: ftballfan on August 15, 2011, 10:10:16 PM
Realistically, the only way I-73 ever gets assigned north of Roanoke is if it gets appended on the existing US-23 freeway between Flint and Toledo as both Michigan and Ohio are running out of even I-x75s (only I-875 available in either state).

Realistically, I'd say it never makes it north of Virginia now that Sen Byrd is gone. West Virginia won't build it as a freeway without federal money. Unless or until it's on Ohio's doorstep, they won't consider building it, and Michigan's plans are dead waiting on I-73 to approach its borders.


hbelkins

Quote from: bulldog1979 on August 16, 2011, 07:16:28 PM

Realistically, I'd say it never makes it north of Virginia now that Sen Byrd is gone. West Virginia won't build it as a freeway without federal money. Unless or until it's on Ohio's doorstep, they won't consider building it, and Michigan's plans are dead waiting on I-73 to approach its borders.

West Virginia doesn't need to build it as a freeway. And that lawsuit the unions filed to stop the process whereby the coal miners were leaving their completed operations as a roadbed may kill much of the entire planned "I-73" King Coal Highway route of US 52.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

NE2

The September issue of Trains magazine has an article on Norfolk Southern's Heartland Corridor. With help from federal and state governments, the railroad improved clearances on an existing two-track main line that parallels I-73/74 through West Virginia to allow double-stacked containers. They now run once-a-day container trains between Chicago and Norfolk, making the run in two days, as well as similarly-scheduled Chicago-Charlotte trains. The entire clearance project, which modified 28 tunnels and 24 other overhead obstructions, cost $191 million. (By comparison, the King Coal Highway apparently costs over $20 million per mile.)
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Grzrd

#53
Quote from: bulldog1979 on August 16, 2011, 07:16:28 PM
Michigan's plans are dead waiting on I-73 to approach its borders.

This July 16 article indicates that property owners in Lenawee County, MI are not interested in having I-73 come through their county:
http://www.lenconnect.com/news/x121480165/Group-seeks-to-revive-I-73-interest-in-Michigan

Quote
The idea of an Interstate 73 freeway link through Lenawee County is getting renewed attention, if not traction ... A Michigan I-73 study was canceled in 2001. But an organization has continued working in other states to encourage completion of the proposed route from Myrtle Beach, S.C., through Michigan. Information packets were mailed last week to Lenawee County officials who the organization hopes will join an effort to revive the project in this state ... Lenawee Economic Development Corp. president and CEO James Gartin said he is responding to the corridor association to arrange a meeting and discuss its plans. Gartin said he is aware of public opposition in the past to an I-73 link through Lenawee County. But he said it is an interesting issue from the standpoint of economic development ... Lenawee County's lack of freeway access "has a huge, negative impact"  on attracting the interest of business prospects, Gartin said. "We're one of the few counties in the state of Michigan that don't have it."  ... There seems to be little chance of having an I-73 link between Toledo and Jackson built in the foreseeable future, she said ... The efforts reached the point of a feasibility study being started in 1999 with $3.9 million in federal funds obtained by former U.S. Rep. Nick Smith ... The study was canceled in June 2001 by the Michigan Department of Transportation. The MDOT director at the time, Gregory Rosine, said the project was being shelved "until we believe adequate funding exists to proceed into design, right-of-way acquisition and construction."  ... Nothing has changed since then, said MDOT spokeswoman Kari Arend ... Hughes said she believes loud public opposition in Lenawee County to a freeway was the reason the study was canceled after the feasibility phase ... "You cannot go through the Irish Hills with that thing. There are lakes everywhere,"  said board chairman Robert Emery. "I don't see I-73."  ... Assistant managing director/engineer Scott Merillat said acquiring right of way for a freeway may be nearly impossible if property owners are opposed ...

ftballfan

Quote from: Grzrd on September 05, 2011, 04:15:34 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on August 16, 2011, 07:16:28 PM
Michigan's plans are dead waiting on I-73 to approach its borders.
This July 16 article indicates that property owners in Lenawee County, MI are not interested in having I-73 come through their county:
http://www.lenconnect.com/news/x121480165/Group-seeks-to-revive-I-73-interest-in-Michigan

"The idea of an Interstate 73 freeway link through Lenawee County is getting renewed attention, if not traction ... A Michigan I-73 study was canceled in 2001. But an organization has continued working in other states to encourage completion of the proposed route from Myrtle Beach, S.C., through Michigan. Information packets were mailed last week to Lenawee County officials who the organization hopes will join an effort to revive the project in this state ... Lenawee Economic Development Corp. president and CEO James Gartin said he is responding to the corridor association to arrange a meeting and discuss its plans. Gartin said he is aware of public opposition in the past to an I-73 link through Lenawee County. But he said it is an interesting issue from the standpoint of economic development ... Lenawee County's lack of freeway access "has a huge, negative impact” on attracting the interest of business prospects, Gartin said. "We're one of the few counties in the state of Michigan that don't have it.” ... There seems to be little chance of having an I-73 link between Toledo and Jackson built in the foreseeable future, she said ... The efforts reached the point of a feasibility study being started in 1999 with $3.9 million in federal funds obtained by former U.S. Rep. Nick Smith ... The study was canceled in June 2001 by the Michigan Department of Transportation. The MDOT director at the time, Gregory Rosine, said the project was being shelved "until we believe adequate funding exists to proceed into design, right-of-way acquisition and construction.” ... Nothing has changed since then, said MDOT spokeswoman Kari Arend ... Hughes said she believes loud public opposition in Lenawee County to a freeway was the reason the study was canceled after the feasibility phase ... "You cannot go through the Irish Hills with that thing. There are lakes everywhere,” said board chairman Robert Emery. "I don't see I-73.” ... Assistant managing director/engineer Scott Merillat said acquiring right of way for a freeway may be nearly impossible if property owners are opposed ..."
Environmentalists always win :/

If I-73 ever gets into Michigan, I see it using US-23 up to I-75 near Flint. Or I could also see it use US-23 to I-96, a somewhat long concurrency with I-96, and then US-127 from I-96 to I-75 near Grayling.

vtk

I wouldn't be upset if there were a "southern" I-73 from Myrtle Beach to Roanoke, and a "northern" I-73 from Jackson to Grayling.  Still, ODOT really should be upgrading the entire Huntington—Toledo corridor to at least expressway grade, whether or not it ever becomes I-73.
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.

Alps

Quote from: vtk on September 13, 2011, 11:00:11 AM
I wouldn't be upset if there were a "southern" I-73 from Myrtle Beach to Roanoke
You mean I-99

vtk

Quote from: Steve on September 14, 2011, 07:26:44 PM
Quote from: vtk on September 13, 2011, 11:00:11 AM
I wouldn't be upset if there were a "southern" I-73 from Myrtle Beach to Roanoke
You mean I-99

That would make a little more sense, but I don't think it's going to happen.
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.

ftballfan

US-127 from Ithaca to St. Johns, even though not a freeway, has a 65 mph speed limit (one of the only, if not the only, non-freeway(s) in Michigan with a speed limit higher than 55) and an interchange at M-57.

bulldog1979

Quote from: ftballfan on September 15, 2011, 09:39:36 PM
US-127 from Ithaca to St. Johns, even though not a freeway, has a 65 mph speed limit (one of the only, if not the only, non-freeway(s) in Michigan with a speed limit higher than 55) and an interchange at M-57.

US 2 between Gladstone and Rapid River has a 65-mph speed limit as well.

roadman65

Quote from: ftballfan on September 15, 2011, 09:39:36 PM
US-127 from Ithaca to St. Johns, even though not a freeway, has a 65 mph speed limit (one of the only, if not the only, non-freeway(s) in Michigan with a speed limit higher than 55) and an interchange at M-57.
When I was there in 08, it was 55 mph. MIDOT must of done this recently.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

bulldog1979

Quote from: roadman65 on January 14, 2012, 08:02:18 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on September 15, 2011, 09:39:36 PM
US-127 from Ithaca to St. Johns, even though not a freeway, has a 65 mph speed limit (one of the only, if not the only, non-freeway(s) in Michigan with a speed limit higher than 55) and an interchange at M-57.
When I was there in 08, it was 55 mph. MIDOT must of done this recently.
MDOT and the Michigan State Police made both changes last year. The state has forced the cities and counties to correct their speed limits based on speed studies, and they've followed suit on various highways as well in the last several years.

JREwing78

Nothing will happen until and unless Michigan raises its fuel taxes to a realistic level. That is anaethema to current political dogma, so the underinvestment will continue.

Assuming funding wasn't an issue, MDOT would have a far easier time politically upgrading US-223 to an expressway (divided 4-lane, access limited only to cross-streets), since that doesn't cause the uproar that a freeway would. It would still need to be largely on new alignment - too many homes right up against it, and US-223 is not much straighter or more level than when it was originally built. But it would be more palatable to the locals without the Interstate brand on it.

The traffic load on US-127 and US-223 between Jackson & Toledo would've long ago prompted construction of at least expressway segments had this route been in another state - Wisconsin, for example. Ohio (with it's US-30 and US-24 upgrades), for another.

What may have to happen is for I-73 to be rerouted away from Toledo. I-73 could certainly continue west of Findlay along the OH-15 corridor to Defiance, then northward along the OH-66 and US-127 corridor into Michigan. Adrian can then be served by a east-west expressway roughly following M-34 and US-223, tying into US-127 and US-23, once the locals get sick of the congestion within Lenawee County.

Grzrd

#63
Here is a link to an interesting "construction progress" map of the Michigan I-73 Corridor that the National I-73/I-74/I-75 Corridor Association recently put on their website:
http://www.i73.com/docs/construction_map_michigan.pdf

Looking at this map, a casual observer might conclude that I-73 in Michigan is only a few upgrades away from being completed (no new terrain construction needed).  :meh:

The Ohio construction progress map shows lengthier needed upgrades to US 23, but still no new terrain construction:
http://www.i73.com/docs/i73_map_2011_main_with_construction_ohio.pdf

And the West Virginia construction progress map shows that US 52 needs to be upgraded, but no new terrain construction:
http://www.i73.com/docs/construction_map_westvirginia.pdf

JREwing78

Uh, yeah. Anyone who looks at a map of the US-223 corridor sees it for the joke that it is. You might get away with it east of Blissfield, but west of there to US-127 requires extensive and expensive rebuilding, and taking a large number of residences and businesses.

You could realistically upgrade US-127 in southern Jackson County, as it was built to be the NBD lanes of an eventual freeway, and there's sufficient ROW available.

hbelkins

Quote from: Grzrd on January 15, 2012, 11:52:29 AM
The Ohio construction progress map shows lengthier needed upgrades to US 23, but still no new terrain construction:
http://www.i73.com/docs/i73_map_2011_main_with_construction_ohio.pdf

And the West Virginia construction progress map shows that US 52 needs to be upgraded, but no new terrain construction:
http://www.i73.com/docs/construction_map_westvirginia.pdf


I can't speak to what Ohio will eventually do, but in my not humble at all opinion, an interstate upgrade of US 23 is totally unnecessary. I have driven the existing four-lane from Portsmouth to I-270 on the south side of Columbus, and from I-270 on the north side of Columbus up to OH 15 and then along OH 15 on to I-75, and that corridor is perfectly fine. It doesn't kill anyone to have a few traffic lights between Columbus and Delaware, or in the Piketon/Waverly area.

And West Virginia will never build "I-73." They are building US 52 as a surface route, which is all that is necessary.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

vtk

I agree that the corridor need not be Interstate standard in Ohio, but I don't think continuous expressway would be an unreasonable goal.

US 23 from I-270 to about Main Rd north of Delaware is a royal pain due to roadside development which should not have been permitted.  And I don't see why at least the inner lanes of the experimental section can't be classified as expressway with a 65 MPH speed limit.  I've seen Delaware County's master plan, and I cringe at the thought of slogging through 25 miles of built-out suburbia on a 45-MPH surface arterial with 1 to 4 traffic lights per mile.  I would hope for an expressway with at least a 60 MPH speed limit and a small number of traffic signals with long green-time.  If this is unrealistic on the current alignment, then a bypass of all of Delaware is called for.

Fortunately, planners are beginning to take access control seriously along the corridor.  MORPC's draft for their updated transportation plan includes "access management" along US 23 in Delaware County, albeit with no target "completion" date.  The website for the US 23 — Rickenbacker Connector actually says US 23 "is and should remain a freeway"; while misinformed, at least the intended result is good.
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

After 5 years, we have something to talk about concerning I-73 in Ohio. Basically that someone in Toledo is myopic enough to believe our current federal government would want this built.
http://www.toledoblade.com/State/2017/02/12/Toledo-corridor-to-capital-talk-revived-with-Trump.html
And they haven't updated their maps in 20 years.

Like I said, their maps haven't been updated in 20 years

Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

sandwalk

If anything, that corridor between Carey and I-280 should be scrapped. There's no need for a parallel interstate 10 to 15 miles east of current I-75. The corridor following OH-15 from Carey to I-75 at Findlay would make the most sense.

Henry

Quote from: sandwalk on February 14, 2017, 09:59:53 AM
If anything, that corridor between Carey and I-280 should be scrapped. There's no need for a parallel interstate 10 to 15 miles east of current I-75. The corridor following OH-15 from Carey to I-75 at Findlay would make the most sense.
Agreed on both counts! If one were to create a Toledo-Columbus Interstate, curving through Carey and towards Findlay would be the best way to go. And I'm surprised that they even brought it up years after it was supposedly dead.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Buck87

#70
Quote from: sandwalk on February 14, 2017, 09:59:53 AM
If anything, that corridor between Carey and I-280 should be scrapped. There's no need for a parallel interstate 10 to 15 miles east of current I-75. The corridor following OH-15 from Carey to I-75 at Findlay would make the most sense.

Yep, especially since 75 is currently being widened from Toledo to Findlay and there are plans to upgrade the I-75-OH 15 interchange

The focus of fixing the Toledo-Columbus corridor should be on Delaware County

frankenroad

Quote

The focus of fixing the Toledo-Columbus corridor should be on Delaware County

I agree 1000%
2di's clinched: 44, 66, 68, 71, 72, 74, 78, 83, 84(east), 86(east), 88(east), 96

Highways I've lived on M-43, M-185, US-127

Strider

Quote from: Buck87 on February 14, 2017, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: sandwalk on February 14, 2017, 09:59:53 AM
If anything, that corridor between Carey and I-280 should be scrapped. There's no need for a parallel interstate 10 to 15 miles east of current I-75. The corridor following OH-15 from Carey to I-75 at Findlay would make the most sense.

Yep, especially since 75 is currently being widened from Toledo to Findlay and there are plans to upgrade the I-75-OH 15 interchange

The focus of fixing the Toledo-Columbus corridor should be on Delaware County




I agree. There is no need for a parallel interstate. If and IF I-73 is ever built in Ohio, it should follow towards the I-75/OH 15 interchange and either end there or multiplex it with I-75 into Michigan... but will I-73 be built in Ohio? I doubt it, but you never know.

hbelkins

Quote from: Strider on February 14, 2017, 01:36:19 PM
I agree. There is no need for a parallel interstate. If and IF I-73 is ever built in Ohio, it should follow towards the I-75/OH 15 interchange and either end there or multiplex it with I-75 into Michigan... but will I-73 be built in Ohio? I doubt it, but you never know.

No and there is no need for it. All the whining about US 23 between Columbus and Delaware notwithstanding, there's an acceptable multi-lane corridor that runs all the way from Toledo to Columbus, and then south. It splits at Chillicothe, where there's another perfectly fine four-lane that runs south all the way to Portsmouth, Ashland, Pikeville, Norton, Kingsport, Johnson City and Asheville. The other branch (US 35) will eventually be completed in West Virginia and then there will be an acceptable four-lane all the way to I-64.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

The Ghostbuster

I think Interstate 73 will be lucky if it ever goes even a mile into Virginia or South Carolina. Never mind coming anywhere near West Virginia, Ohio, or Michigan.



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