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Author Topic: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project  (Read 57633 times)

jemacedo9

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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #200 on: January 15, 2022, 04:58:32 PM »

When the freeway is complete; if one were to drive the full freeway from south to north without taking any exits, it will have the following designations:

US 11 / US 15
US 15 (US 11 exits off)
US 15 / PA 147 (PA 147 joins)
PA 147 (US 15 exits off)
I-180 (PA 147 ends at I-80)
I-180 / US 220 (US 220 joins)
I-180 / US 15 / US 220  (US 15 joins, again)
US 220 (US 15 exits off and I-180 ends at same place)
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Crown Victoria

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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #201 on: January 15, 2022, 09:41:23 PM »

Hmm. Here's the sentence:

Quote
The thruway is expected to reduce the amount of through traffic on Route 15 in the Lewisburg area because Route 147 — which will become Interstate 180 — will be a four-lane limited access highway north to Williamsport.


Given that you could replace "will become" with "becomes" and it would be correct, I would lean towards this being a typo/grammatical error, rather than a harbinger of an I-180 extension.

 

There is no indication of an I-180 extension happening.  The signage plans on the CSVT Website have indicated that for years.  This truly sounds like a typo at worst.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time a last-minute designation change like this has happened, though I'm certainly not aware of PennDOT ever doing anything like that, and making the entire road from Selinsgrove to Williamsport I-180 would make far too much sense for PennDOT to consider.

Indeed, an extension of I-180 would make sense for the CSVT. However, I have to agree that this was probably just a typo. I haven't read anything else official suggesting this will become I-180, and if 74/171FAN hasn't either, then there isn't any there to find. Nonetheless, it is food for thought...
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Gnutella

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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #202 on: February 01, 2022, 04:49:21 AM »

It certainly wouldn't be the first time a last-minute designation change like this has happened, though I'm certainly not aware of PennDOT ever doing anything like that, and making the entire road from Selinsgrove to Williamsport I-180 would make far too much sense for PennDOT to consider.

I-376/I-279/U.S. 22/U.S. 30/PA 60 all became I-376 in 2009, so PennDOT has done it before.
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Crown Victoria

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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #203 on: February 01, 2022, 09:35:34 AM »

It certainly wouldn't be the first time a last-minute designation change like this has happened, though I'm certainly not aware of PennDOT ever doing anything like that, and making the entire road from Selinsgrove to Williamsport I-180 would make far too much sense for PennDOT to consider.

I-376/I-279/U.S. 22/U.S. 30/PA 60 all became I-376 in 2009, so PennDOT has done it before.

As far as extending a route designation to cover/replace multiple others, yes, as in the I-376 example.

The difference here is that the I-376 extension was included in the 2005 surface transportation bill, and took several years to actually implement. There's no such planning for an I-180 extension; indeed, the article posted here is the only (possible) mention of such. Granted, it's not a bad idea, extending I-180 to Selinsgrove...
« Last Edit: February 01, 2022, 09:39:21 AM by Crown Victoria »
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vdeane

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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #204 on: February 01, 2022, 12:51:23 PM »

I could see a case for renumbering north of the Selinsgrove bypass (where US 11 splits off at what's now a stub would seem to be the most logical terminus).  US 15 could stay where it is, PA 147 could stay east (truncated to US 11, with the PA 405 extension north of US 11), and the connection to the bridge to Sunbury could be PA 61 alone.  That would simplify the numbering a lot.  I could see a case for renumbering this and I-180 as I-199, if I-99 ever happens in the Williamsport area.
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vdeane

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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #205 on: March 01, 2022, 08:54:32 PM »

So a few days ago I went and emailed PennDOT to ask about the possibility of designating the CSVT, PA 147 freeway, and I-180 as I-199.

Quote from: vdeane
I've been following the CSVT project and I was wondering if you had considered making the new freeway (along with the existing PA 147 freeway) an interstate when the whole project is completed. Looking at the designation map, it would seem that the overall corridor will change numbers several times - heading north, it would start as US 11/15, then be US 15 alone, then US 15/PA 147, then PA 147 along, then I-180, before traffic resumes on US 15 (at this point, future I-99). It would seem to me that designating the freeway from US 11/15 and US 522 to the north end of I-180 at future I-99 (US 15 and US 220) would greatly simplify the designations for the traveling public. There would be no need for US 15 Business as US 15 could remain where it is, and the bridge to Sunbury could be PA 61 alone rather than having an overlap with PA 147 (to minimize the disruption from interim designations, I'd suggest truncating PA 147 to PA 61 rather than placing it back on its current route/future PA 405). As for what interstate number to use, I would suggest I-199, at least if the I-99 upgrade is still in progress; it seems odd that the portion from Williamsport to the NY border hasn't been designated yet, even though it's already signed on the NY side (and unfortunately it seems that future work in PA has stalled, aside from the I-80 interchange near State College). Of course, simply extending I-180 is also an option. In any case, I'm excited to finally see the CSVT built.

I got a response back a few hours ago.  In short, I don't think this is going to be an interstate any time soon.  I wonder if maybe there would have been more of a chance at getting a designation if it had been asked earlier in the project, and the activities for designation could have been rolled into the design work instead of done separatly.

Quote from: PennDOT
Thank you for your recent inquiry (included below) regarding the CSVT Project, and we share your excitement that the long-awaited project is approaching its completion.

 

While the suggestions included in your inquiry could somewhat simplify route designations for the traveling public, pursuing the changes would involve substantial study, coordination, and costs.  Based on the US Code and the Code of Federal Regulations, additions to the Interstate System require approval by the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA).  Prior to requesting such approval, we would first need to complete a detailed engineering study to determine whether the proposed Interstate corridor, including the roughly 7-mile-long, 4-lane, limited-access portion of existing PA 147, was designed/constructed to current Interstate standards.  Any components of the highway not meeting those current standards would need to be upgraded unless a design exception could be justified.  In addition, the proposed route designations would need to be coordinated with the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials and with interested local stakeholders throughout the region.  The changes would also require additional environmental documentation under the National Environmental Policy Act.

 

Considering the necessary study/coordination, potential highway upgrades required to meet current standards, and the actual signing changes, the cost would likely be significant to implement route designation changes similar to those you suggested.  A separate project to pursue such changes could be considered for future inclusion on PennDOT’s Statewide Transportation Improvement Program, on which the public has an opportunity to provide input when it is updated every two years.  However, the need for and cost of the route designation changes would have to be weighed against other potential transportation improvements in the region.

 

As a brief update on existing US 15 between Williamsport and the New York border, we have completed the engineering study necessary to redesignate the corridor as I-99.  To address the components of the highway identified as not meeting current Interstate standards, we are now developing plans for improvements and, where appropriate, preparing design exception requests.  We currently anticipate obtaining FHWA approval of this redesignation and starting to install I-99 signing by 2026, shortly after the completion of the I-80/I-99 interchange near State College.

 

Thank you again for your interest in the CSVT Project.  If you have any additional questions, please let me know.
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SkyPesos

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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #206 on: March 01, 2022, 10:01:08 PM »

^ Sounds a bit like the dilemma for the Columbus-Toledo corridor we have here in Ohio (heavily discussed in its respective thread(s)), where there's at least 3 route number designations (depending on how you approach the Columbus area in the south), with no plans to reduce it to less numbers.
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74/171FAN

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webny99

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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #208 on: April 01, 2022, 03:36:53 PM »

PennDOT - District 3 News: Wolf Administration Announces Bids Opened for First Contract for Southern Section of CSVT

Nice! Thanks for sharing. Part of me is still hoping this will go quicker than expected and open sooner... 2027 is still a long ways away.

But at least the new bridge will be open this year, which will significantly improve things in Northumberland at least.
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J N Winkler

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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #209 on: April 06, 2022, 01:30:27 AM »

PennDOT - District 3 News: Wolf Administration Announces Bids Opened for First Contract for Southern Section of CSVT

I have downloaded the plans and proposal attachments for this project, which is ECMS 76401.  At 4.15 GB, the documentation package is quite large for a contract that is mainly grading and culverts with one road bridge and a modest amount of secondary road paving.
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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #210 on: April 09, 2022, 07:36:10 PM »

The more I think about it, the more I think that the improved Selinsgrove interchange at the southern end of the CSVT project (where US 15 currently exits onto Susquehanna Trail) is an underrated part of the CSVT project. The NB US 15 to SB US 522 and NB US 522 to SB US 15 movements that are currently missing are HUGE for traffic connecting to/from PA 204, Kratzerville, and points north/northwest. Right now they have to either exit at Selinsgrove and deal with city streets, or exit to Susq. Trail NB and use Roosevelt Ave/Mill Rd. to get to PA 204. The improved US 522 interchange and new Mill Rd/Airport Rd roundabout will make that movement a lot better and instantly become the fastest route to/from US 15, so I wouldn't be surprised if traffic on Airport Rd increases significantly, and that shift should have a positive impact on traffic in Selinsgrove.


Also, a random thought... could this be the future entrance to Colonial Dr when it's realigned as part of CSVT? I would imagine the road realignments would have to be done first and both Colonial Dr and Park Rd will see significant changes in this area.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2022, 10:20:06 PM by webny99 »
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Bitmapped

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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #211 on: April 10, 2022, 01:03:50 PM »

The more I think about it, the more I think that the improved Selinsgrove interchange at the southern end of the CSVT project (where US 15 currently exits onto Susquehanna Trail) is an underrated part of the CSVT project. The NB US 15 to SB US 522 and NB US 522 to SB US 15 movements that are currently missing are HUGE for traffic connecting to/from PA 204, Kratzerville, and points north/northwest. Right now they have to either exit at Selinsgrove and deal with city streets, or exit to Susq. Trail NB and use Roosevelt Ave/Mill Rd. to get to PA 204. The improved US 522 interchange and new Mill Rd/Airport Rd roundabout will make that movement a lot better and instantly become the fastest route to/from US 15, so I wouldn't be surprised if traffic on Airport Rd increases significantly, and that shift should have a positive impact on traffic in Selinsgrove.

I agree that completing the missing movements at the Selinsgrove interchange will be a big improvement. I've always been baffled why they were missing in the first place. From the existing grading at the site, it doesn't seem like they were ever contemplated. Was there to be another interchange further south that was not built or was the thinking everyone would get off at PA 35 and crawl through town?
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webny99

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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #212 on: April 10, 2022, 09:03:52 PM »

The more I think about it, the more I think that the improved Selinsgrove interchange at the southern end of the CSVT project (where US 15 currently exits onto Susquehanna Trail) is an underrated part of the CSVT project. The NB US 15 to SB US 522 and NB US 522 to SB US 15 movements that are currently missing are HUGE for traffic connecting to/from PA 204, Kratzerville, and points north/northwest. Right now they have to either exit at Selinsgrove and deal with city streets, or exit to Susq. Trail NB and use Roosevelt Ave/Mill Rd. to get to PA 204. The improved US 522 interchange and new Mill Rd/Airport Rd roundabout will make that movement a lot better and instantly become the fastest route to/from US 15, so I wouldn't be surprised if traffic on Airport Rd increases significantly, and that shift should have a positive impact on traffic in Selinsgrove.

I agree that completing the missing movements at the Selinsgrove interchange will be a big improvement. I've always been baffled why they were missing in the first place. From the existing grading at the site, it doesn't seem like they were ever contemplated. Was there to be another interchange further south that was not built or was the thinking everyone would get off at PA 35 and crawl through town?

It is odd that those were not built originally; leaving them out forces all traffic coming off the freeway portion of US 11/15 to go northbound which certainly doesn't help the traffic situation in Hummels Wharf/Shamokin Dam. I'm not sure the answer to your question but I have to think those movements would have been built if the interchange had been completed as planned.
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webny99

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Re: Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project
« Reply #213 on: April 19, 2022, 08:58:05 PM »

With the CSVT northern section on track to be completed this year, here's the link to what the interim route designations will look like until the southern section is complete: http://www.csvt.com/maps/pdfs/proposed-roadway-route-designations-2018-07-18.pdf

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