Central Susquehanna Valley Transportation Project

[Alps]

I have been doing a bit of research recently to find out what impacts CSVT will have on other area roadways. In particular, PennDOT seems to be downplaying the potential for increased traffic on Ridge Road. Linked fact sheet doesn't contain anything outright false, but (IMO) the framing is a little off. Decreased traffic through Northumberland and Shamokin Dam isn't going to encourage long distance traffic to pass through said areas -- not with a new freeway bypass available! Ridge Road to CSVT will almost certainly become the de-facto route from Danville to Selinsgrove, and I could easily see volumes on Ridge Road doubling or tripling.

What? The Ridge Road I'm seeing isn't a through road.

This Ridge Road?

The former western end has been renamed Greenhouse Road and turned into a dead end, while the new western end also connects to PA 147 (which will become PA 405) and will have an interchange with CSVT. I recall reading that PennDOT is also going to take over maintenance.

Oh, they'll use it to get to the CSVT interchange. Gotcha.

[webny99]

PennDOT seems to be downplaying the potential for increased traffic on Ridge Road.
...

What? The Ridge Road I'm seeing isn't a through road.

This Ridge Road?
...

Oh, they'll use it to get to the CSVT interchange. Gotcha.

Presumably, yes, although to what extent is an open question.
My guess would be all - or almost all - US 11 southbound traffic with destinations beyond Northumberland will use Ridge Road to access the new river bridge. On the other hand, one of the CSVT reports mentioned 50%.

[webny99]

In other news, the new river bridge piers have made it to the east (PA 147) side of the river!
From csvt.com:

[briantroutman]

My guess would be all - or almost all - US 11 southbound traffic with destinations beyond Northumberland will use Ridge Road to access the new river bridge. On the other hand, one of the CSVT reports mentioned 50%.

I'm inclined to think that 50% is a fairly reasonable estimate–for a few reasons.

The first is that since US 11 is essentially a deprecated route between Berwick and Harrisburg (having been bypassed by I-81), an even greater than usual proportion of US 11 traffic at Shamokin Dam is local to the Central Susquehanna Valley. And among these local motorists, a significant percentage are headed to or coming from destinations in the Shamokin Dam/Northumberland/Sunbury area, and those people wouldn't be interested in bypassing the entire area anyway.

But even among the relatively few motorists trying to get, say, from Danville to Harrisburg, keep in mind we're talking about an area where the population is generally older, more native, and less tech savvy than average. That translates to fewer people relying on GPS for local navigation and instead trusting their experience. To a local–not looking at a map–the Ridge Road bypass probably seems convoluted and circuitous. I predict many of these same locals will exit the CSVT at Winfield and take US 15 through Lewisburg on trips to Williamsport and points north because "...why would I want to go way out and around Muncy like that?" , even if the route actually saves time.

That said, traffic on Ridge Road will almost surely increase somewhat, and it will probably cause consternation locally when GPS units start to direct significant numbers of heavy trucks down the narrow rural road.

[Beltway]

In other news, the new river bridge piers have made it to the east (PA 147) side of the river!
From csvt.com:

The east abutment and the three piers near PA-147 were complete when I saw the project at the end of March.

[webny99]

My guess would be all - or almost all - US 11 southbound traffic with destinations beyond Northumberland will use Ridge Road to access the new river bridge. On the other hand, one of the CSVT reports mentioned 50%.

I'm inclined to think that 50% is a fairly reasonable estimate–for a few reasons.

The first is that since US 11 is essentially a deprecated route between Berwick and Harrisburg (having been bypassed by I-81), an even greater than usual proportion of US 11 traffic at Shamokin Dam is local to the Central Susquehanna Valley. And among these local motorists, a significant percentage are headed to or coming from destinations in the Shamokin Dam/Northumberland/Sunbury area, and those people wouldn't be interested in bypassing the entire area anyway.

You make good points. I tend to forget that US 11 carries but a fraction of the long-haul traffic of US 15. I am not sure what truck volumes are like, but I assume the vast majority of trucks using the Blue Hill Bridge are destined for PA 147.

Also, I wouldn't consider traffic with a Shamokin Dam, Sunbury or Northumberland destination to be included. I think PennDOT's 50% figure was in reference to Danville > Selinsgrove traffic. At that point we are talking about little enough volume that getting down to the exact percentage is perhaps a bit nitpicky. 

However, the larger point remains; the new river bridge and Ridge Rd will provide a very handy bypass of Northumberland, and it will be unsurprising if truck volumes on US 11 drop to a quarter or less of what they are currently.

[TheOneKEA]

One minor curiosity I have about the proposed route designations for the project has to do with US 522. Currently, it ends at the incomplete interchange where US 11/15 transitions to the surface boulevard at Shamokin Dam. Once the southern portion of the Bypass is open, will US 522 continue to end at that interchange? Could/should it end somewhere else?

Another minor curiosity will be how the signal phasing is altered on the surface boulevard in Shamokin Dam or if it the phasing is left as-is.

[Roadsguy]

One minor curiosity I have about the proposed route designations for the project has to do with US 522. Currently, it ends at the incomplete interchange where US 11/15 transitions to the surface boulevard at Shamokin Dam. Once the southern portion of the Bypass is open, will US 522 continue to end at that interchange? Could/should it end somewhere else?

I don't believe US 522 will be touched at all beyond adding the missing movements to the interchange where the bypass currently ends.

[74/171FAN]

One minor curiosity I have about the proposed route designations for the project has to do with US 522. Currently, it ends at the incomplete interchange where US 11/15 transitions to the surface boulevard at Shamokin Dam. Once the southern portion of the Bypass is open, will US 522 continue to end at that interchange? Could/should it end somewhere else?

I don't believe US 522 will be touched at all beyond adding the missing movements to the interchange where the bypass currently ends.

The Route Designation Map  proposes no changes to US 522.

[briantroutman]

Once the southern portion of the Bypass is open, will US 522 continue to end at that interchange? Could/should it end somewhere else?

As to your second question, It think that PennDOT's plan to leave US 522 as it is makes the most sense.

From an interregional standpoint: US 522 will end at its intersection with US 15 (which will follow the CSVT) and US 11 (which will be on the old 11-15 alignment through Shamokin Dam). This terminus gives 522 corridor traffic easy connections to all points north and northeast, so an extension wouldn't be necessary. My guess is that the majority of long-distance US 522 traffic (of which there is relatively little), will take the ramp onto the CSVT, and a smaller number will stay on US 11.

From a local standpoint: Susquehanna Trail through Shamokin Dam and Hummels Wharf (the "Golden Strip"  among natives) has been "11-15"  for nearly 80 years, and I expect it will retain that name in common usage. So PennDOT's planned designation of the strip as US 11 / Business 15 is fitting.

But on the topic of extensions, it's noteworthy that PA 405 will become approximately seven miles longer, absorbing all of PA 147's old route through Northumberland and into Sunbury.

[Alps]

But on the topic of extensions, it's noteworthy that PA 405 will become approximately seven miles longer, absorbing all of PA 147's old route through Northumberland and into Sunbury.

That is interesting. I would have expected at least some of the old route to go secondary.

[kevinb1994]

But on the topic of extensions, it's noteworthy that PA 405 will become approximately seven miles longer, absorbing all of PA 147's old route through Northumberland and into Sunbury.

That is interesting. I would have expected at least some of the old route to go secondary.

Seconded.

[briantroutman]

That is interesting. I would have expected at least some of the old route to go secondary.

After the CSVT project is complete, the existing "elbow"  where PA 405 currently terminates at PA 147 will be made continuous–essentially returning Susquehanna Trail to its pre-1971 alignment (before the PA 147 freeway was built). So if PA 405 needs to terminate at another numbered route, it would either need to be truncated to PA 45 or extended to at least US 11 (or, possibly, re-routed via Ridge Road to terminate at the new PA 147 interchange) .

But in a sense, I can see the value of extending PA 405 beyond US 11 to PA 147 in Sunbury. As it stands, PA 405 acts as sort of a local/regional connector for the towns along the eastern shore of the Susquehanna. Currently, PA 147 fills that role south of Chillisquaque, but once it's rerouted on the CSVT, PA 405 will serve that purpose from Chillisquaque to Sunbury, where PA 147 again becomes the east shore route all the way down to US 22-322.

- - -

Separately, I wonder whether the CSVT's new Ridge Road interchange will be signed "To PA 405 - Northumberland" .

[webny99]

Separately, I wonder whether the CSVT's new Ridge Road interchange will be signed "To PA 405 - Northumberland" .

I have wondered that, too. Northumberland works well as a southbound destination but doesn't make as much sense northbound. (Although it is actually possible that CSVT to Ridge Rd may be the fastest route to Northumberland from points south, despite the additional mileage and S-shaped routing!).

Apparently, there will be no signage that encourages Ridge Rd as a bypass of US 11, so I guess Danville won't be used as a destination.

[Roadsguy]

According to the signing plans for the paving contract (see page 25), the exit will in fact be signed "To PA 405 / Northumberland." Danville won't be signed at all, including from the ends of the ramps.

[Alps]

I would have made old 147 a secondary from 61 up to Ridge Road. Just my own thought. Also, they're not truncating 61 to 147 either. Why... (typed in the land of OH 16 ending on US 40)

[webny99]

Here are some aerial photos of the progress!

[Beltway]

My photos from 9-17-2019

New Susquehanna River bridge under construction. All piers have been completed.


New Susquehanna River bridge under construction. All piers have been completed.


Jointed Plain Concrete Pavement (JPCP) under construction.


Direct links --
http://www.capital-beltway.com/CSVT-20190917-1.jpg
http://www.capital-beltway.com/CSVT-20190917-2.jpg
http://www.capital-beltway.com/CSVT-20190917-3.jpg

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^^^
Question:  Is there any reason PennDOT is specifying jointed concrete construction instead of continuously laid pavement, the more accepted practice since the '60s?  In an area that experiences temperature fluctuation, it would seem to be counterintuitive.  Could there possibly be an issue with the underpinning, ballast, or simple instability of the underlying ground that requires a series of smaller semi-independent loadings as opposed to the vastly longer singular load that continuous pavement entails?  If anyone can shed light on this, please do so.   

[ARMOURERERIC]

Which portion of the mainline is getting the pavement  in that pic?

[Beltway]

Question:  Is there any reason PennDOT is specifying jointed concrete construction instead of continuously laid pavement, the more accepted practice since the '60s?  In an area that experiences temperature fluctuation, it would seem to be counterintuitive.  Could there possibly be an issue with the underpinning, ballast, or simple instability of the underlying ground that requires a series of smaller semi-independent loadings as opposed to the vastly longer singular load that continuous pavement entails?  If anyone can shed light on this, please do so.   

I've seen some articles that say that Jointed Plain Concrete Pavement (JPCP) is a recent design that has improved performance over the previous types including Continuously Reinforced Concrete Pavement (CRCP).

JPCP is not the old jointed pavement of the 1960s and before, as that type had reinforcing steel rods (rebar) in it.  JPCP uses contraction joints to control cracking and does not use any reinforcing steel.  Two or three inches thicker slab as well.

I see that PennDOT used what appears to be JPCP on US-11/US-15 north of US-322, which was built about 15 years ago.  MSHA used JPCP on the US-50 Salisbury Bypass which was completed in 2003.

We will have to see in the future how these pavements perform, but it appears that there may be a trend away from use of rebar.  Steel is expensive.

[seicer]

Thanks for the update Scott.

What was the pavement type used on I-99 north of State College? A significant portion of it between Exit 81 and I-80 is failing, but it is also 22 years old at this point, too. The segment south of Exit 81 towards US 322 is only a few years newer but is in excellent shape.

[Beltway]

Thanks for the update Scott.
What was the pavement type used on I-99 north of State College? A significant portion of it between Exit 81 and I-80 is failing, but it is also 22 years old at this point, too. The segment south of Exit 81 towards US 322 is only a few years newer but is in excellent shape.

Not sure exactly but it does appear jointed --
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.911552,-77.7410291,3a,75y,352.02h,86.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbQtCpi6VutbqzdvWTMDmnA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^^^^
Follow-up question:  If JCPC is indeed jointed pavement complete with contraction joints (lack of rebar notwithstanding), is the quality of the ride similar to other jointed installations or more in line with what has been expected/common with continuously cast concrete pavement (which for the most part ameliorated the "bumps" associated with the presence of joints.  If any posters have had field experience with driving on JCPC, it would be useful to relate such. 

[Beltway]

Follow-up question:  If JCPC is indeed jointed pavement complete with contraction joints (lack of rebar notwithstanding), is the quality of the ride similar to other jointed installations or more in line with what has been expected/common with continuously cast concrete pavement (which for the most part ameliorated the "bumps" associated with the presence of joints.  If any posters have had field experience with driving on JCPC, it would be useful to relate such. 

For clarity, I know from MDOT news releases that the US-50 Salisbury Bypass was paved with JCPC.

I am pretty sure about the segment of US-11/US-15 in central PA that was built about 15 years ago, but don't know officially.

The joints look smaller than the old jointed pavements of before about 1970, to where you really need to be stopped to notice them.  I have driven both.  They are not completely noiseless, but the sound is barely perceptible.  So far the ride quality is fine.