Interstate 15 north of Barstow to the State Line

[cahwyguy]

"Mindless impulse to add more lanes."  that about sums you up. The constant backups. The mayor of Vegas pleading to add a third lane. But adding lanes here would be a mindless impulse.

I didn't say that. That is how Jeanie Ward-Waller characterized it. Read what I wrote.  But Caltrans right now is on a quest not to reduce congestion times or improve level of service; they are (in accordance with the state's environmental goals) engineering many projects to reduce VMT, meaning having less cars on the road. Their stated goals. Not mine. I rarely if ever state my personal opinion here -- rather, I try to explain what I see Caltrans doing.

Her points in this area were interesting -- how Caltrans often will split projects in such a way as to escape environmental review -- in this case, they were simply resurfacing that section of I-80, oh, and resurfacing the median as well. No widening here. But a future project is then talking about restriping the lanes to give an extra lane, without taking any land. Her point was that the two should be viewed together. She also talked about how Caltrans will do one small area of widening, without thinking about the impact of that change further down the freeway. I-15 is a great example of that: they add the temporary lines, but they don't think about the impact when those lanes go away. She talked about the conflicts going on in Caltrans right now between the old Engineers focused on highways who were running the show, doing battle with the newer folks (such as those on the CTC) who are taking the larger holistic picture, and how that impacts what is proposed and what gets done. So it was an interesting interview to listen to... while commuting on the 405.

Do *I* think that segment of I-15 should be widened? I look at it as an engineer, as someone familiar with government budgets and government projects, and with the color of money. I think there are many other projects that will reduce more regular congestion than the I-15 project, which will reduce congestion, but congestion that occurs only in limited windows. I'm also aware of the projects that will be likely to get through.  I'm also aware that Caltrans has limited funds for widening, and much more funds for road REPAIR that can't be used on new widening. I also know that new projects must consider Active Transportation Elements (that's in the law), and this project would get very low scores in that area -- not a great area for pedestrians and buses.

I also believe in induced demand, because I've seen and lived it. I commuted across I-405 during the construction of the HOV lanes. Horrid during construction, Great for about a year after they opened. Now -- even post pandemic, when more people are working from home -- the traffic is worse or as bad as it was before. 60 minutes Northridge to El Segundo in the morning. 90 minutes or more El Segundo to Northridge in the late afternoon. The lanes didn't really help.

Do I think express lanes are the answer? No. They give benefit to the wealthy or those who can afford the transponders, not to the people who drive because they have to work far away from where they live and can't afford a lot of extras.

What I do believe is the answer is to take an ENTERPRISE or HOLISTIC view of our transit networks. Get off the slower, long distance trucks. Use trains to move containers between hubs, off the freeway separated from traffic, and then use trucks locally for the last mile. If you get a lot of the trucks off the highways, you'll reduce congestion AND improve air quality and help the state meet its carbon goals.

I do suggest you listen to that interview -- listen to the entire podcast on the San Diego Freeways. You may not agree with it, but it will be interesting and give you a different point of view. I also suggest the podcast on the Big Dig in Boston, which ended up being a success story -- but also had some good lessons learned.

[Plutonic Panda]

Thanks for the podcasts recommendations I'll listen to them. I however think widening I-15 should be one of Caltrans number one priority regarding road works.

[Scott5114]

What I do believe is the answer is to take an ENTERPRISE or HOLISTIC view of our transit networks. Get off the slower, long distance trucks. Use trains to move containers between hubs, off the freeway separated from traffic, and then use trucks locally for the last mile. If you get a lot of the trucks off the highways, you'll reduce congestion AND improve air quality and help the state meet its carbon goals.

This really sums up my thinking in a way I haven't adequately done. When I was on the way back from my first trip to Las Vegas in 2022, I was frustrated enough with the truck traffic on I-40 that I found myself shouting at random trucks that got in the way "YOU SHOULD BE A TRAIN."

Likewise, if there are people able and willing to use a train to commute, they should have the option to do so. That frees up capacity for those of us who prefer driving.

[ozarkman417]

What I do believe is the answer is to take an ENTERPRISE or HOLISTIC view of our transit networks. Get off the slower, long distance trucks. Use trains to move containers between hubs, off the freeway separated from traffic, and then use trucks locally for the last mile. If you get a lot of the trucks off the highways, you'll reduce congestion AND improve air quality and help the state meet its carbon goals.

If there's one way that trucks cause congestion, it is when one truck is very slowly passing another. Let's say we upgrade this part of I-15 to six lanes: One truck passes another in the center lane, and I pass both on the left lane. As far as taking trucks off the roadway, Missouri had an interesting proposal when considering its own six-lane upgrade (I-70) which could be considered as well: create a parallel carriageway that's dedicated to trucks, and leave the original to passenger vehicles.

[Max Rockatansky]

Freight rail becoming more efficient and/or states investing into freight rail?  Perish the thought...

That said, the decline of private freight rail since the beginning of the 20th century (especially in California) is staggering.  There are so many abandoned lines and siding facilities that makes for quite the Easter Egg hunt for people like me.

[Plutonic Panda]

So why is rail not being utilized more then? I still don't think this would fix traffic issues from passenger cars especially during peak hours.

[cahwyguy]

I however think widening I-15 should be one of Caltrans number one priority regarding road works.

Number one? Over *EVERYTHING* else?

I-15 widening is Number 1 over fixing PCH?
I-15 widening is Number 1 over completing the 710?
I-15 widening is Number 1 over fixing Route 1 in Big Sur?
I-15 widening is Number 1 over widening I-80 in the Bay Area near Sacramento?
I-15 widneing is Number 1 over completing Route 58 and the Centennial Corridor?
I-15 widening is Number 1 over widening Route 99 in the Central Valley?
I-15 widening is Number 1 over widening US 101 in the San Fernando Valley?

You get the idea. California is a big big state, and there are lots and lots of Road projects that need to be done. Road projects that impact continuing and continuous congestion every day. But a project that addresses congestion that only occurs on some weekends and for limited hours in those weekends has priority over all of those.

I don't think this proposal is even in the top 10. It may be needed, but given the other projects clamoring for limited dollars....

[cahwyguy]

My point about priorities is this: If you want to get this done, it needs to be SMART.

FUNDING

You need to get the state senate and assembly folk in these districts behind this. Problem: Knowing this part of the state, these are likely strong R areas, so their representatives have little juice in the state. Further, there aren't a lot of constituents in this area, and those constituents (i.e., the folks who vote for these folks) don't care all that much about this. Hurdle number one to jump over, because if the local reps won't support this, you're not going to get others in the State Senate or Assembly to push Caltrans to do it.

Next, you need to get other state senators and assembly critters behind this. The problem is that it impacts only a small number of voters, so they don't have a lot of pull. Hurdle #2

You might have better luck at the Federal level. Get it written into an infrastructure bill as an earmark. Oh, right, earmarks are out of favor, and won't get through a Republican house -- and this would likely be proposed by a Republican congresscritter.

What about Regional funds? Those are likely sucked up by the metro areas that have continuing problems, not weekend problems?

OK, so we get Nevada to pay for it.

COMPLETE PICTURE

You need to recognize that a goal of Caltrans is to reduce greenhouse gases, and decrease VMT. So you have to engineer this as a complete project to do that. Bundle the project with support for Brightline, to get people off the road (perhaps Caltrans can fund and build some bridges, as this will be in the middle of the I-15 ROW). Consider adding HOV lanes, to encourage people to rideshare to Vegas. Consider making the lane additions more truck lanes, which would get the trucks into dedicated lanes, which will make the passenger lanes go faster. Plus, that will get the trucking unions behind this.

ENVIRONMENTAL

A killer for this project would be environmental, which is why you want to avoid portraying this as a widening. Those require full environmental reviews. Emphasize making the lanes limited hours, only open during the most congested periods. Consider promoting the lanes as AUX lanes -- additional lanes only between exits (make those truck lanes as well). Aux lanes don't have the same environmental review.

COST/BENEFIT

You need to build the story about why the state needs this -- and reducing congestion for people spending their money out of state is not the way to do that. After all, we'd rather them go to the native american casinos IN the state. At least then, there's a chance of ancillary state revenue. So this needs to be all about the trucking, and reducing truck congestion. Truck congestion increases idling, which works against greenhouse goals.

My point is: Far too often, the "yungguns" in this group don't understand the full picture, as you and I do. Nothing is as simple as it seems, especially when working with government processes. There are completing priorities that are not always public, political power comes into play, impacted constituents and their power comes into play. Who benefits comes into play. ENvironmental factors come into play. How the project looks to the public comes into play.

It is never simple.

[sprjus4]

I think another problem is trying to make this one big project... break it up into phases. 5 to 10 miles at a time. It's better than stalling out a 50+ mile widening and twiddling thumbs over funding for 30 years.

[sprjus4]

My point about priorities is this: If you want to get this done, it needs to be SMART.

FUNDING

COMPLETE PICTURE

You need to recognize that a goal of Caltrans is to reduce greenhouse gases, and decrease VMT. So you have to engineer this as a complete project to do that. Bundle the project with support for Brightline,

COST/BENEFIT

It is never simple.

California has had great success with all of these, as evident by that high speed rail project between Los Angeles and San Francisco. Completed 5 years ago, that project was delivered under budget and ahead of schedule, and has moved millions off of I-5 and CA-99. Congestion has been reduced significantly to the point major widenings on CA-99 have been canceled due to no more need. /s

[cahwyguy]

Congestion has been reduced significantly to the point major widenings on CA-99 have been canceled due to no more need. /s

Well, that's certainly true: There is only one remaining segment that has a widening in the works left, as I recall.

But that project -- which is quite separate from Caltrans and run by a different authority, funded by NON-highway funds, is much much more ambitious, going through more populated areas, and through much more difficult terrain. I think it is a wait-and-see as to how successful it will be, and we may not be able to judge that success until the project is completed.

As for the delays and costs there: I refer folks again to the excellent podcast on the Big Dig https://www.wgbh.org/podcasts/the-big-dig . That project was well over budget (by multiple billions), well over schedule, and had numerous legal battles -- but in the end, was a success for Boston. So I don't think we can judge California's HSR project by where it is now. It is like judging the Big Dig in the early days of construction.

[nexus73]

Since truck and passenger vehicle traffic can surge so high, I would go with 4 lanes in each direction.  Trucks stay in the right two lane.  The far left lane is meant for passing.  Now you can have 80 MPH as a speed limit with a 10 MPH margin given by CHP.

At the border, eliminate the ag station.  Have a truck-only inspection area with certain companies carrying certain loads given a pass through.  At that station place a group of emergency responders (police, fire, ambulance, tow trucks) to keep I-15 safe.  On order to allow coverage by ER units going both ways, build into the median "Official Use Only" U-turn setups with no more than 1 mile between them. 

Add in another large ER setup or two between Barstow and the border along with rest areas and services capable of handling commercial vehicles.  This will make 1-15 through the desert as safe and well serviced as possible. 

[Plutonic Panda]

I however think widening I-15 should be one of Caltrans number one priority regarding road works.

Number one? Over *EVERYTHING* else?

I-15 widening is Number 1 over fixing PCH?
I-15 widening is Number 1 over completing the 710?
I-15 widening is Number 1 over fixing Route 1 in Big Sur?
I-15 widening is Number 1 over widening I-80 in the Bay Area near Sacramento?
I-15 widneing is Number 1 over completing Route 58 and the Centennial Corridor?
I-15 widening is Number 1 over widening Route 99 in the Central Valley?
I-15 widening is Number 1 over widening US 101 in the San Fernando Valley?

You get the idea. California is a big big state, and there are lots and lots of Road projects that need to be done. Road projects that impact continuing and continuous congestion every day. But a project that addresses congestion that only occurs on some weekends and for limited hours in those weekends has priority over all of those.

I don't think this proposal is even in the top 10. It may be needed, but given the other projects clamoring for limited dollars....

Well, you make very good points. I worded my post wrong. I should've just said it should be a high priority for Caltrans. All the projects you listed are very much in need just as much as I-15 is.

I don't wanna sit here and compare each one because then I have to come up with specific reasons to do so and I just don't feel like doing that even if I could. But this project is very much needed.

[kphoger]

If there's one way that trucks cause congestion, it is when one truck is very slowly passing another. Let's say we upgrade this part of I-15 to six lanes: One truck passes another in the center lane, and I pass both on the left lane.

But how much does that actually affect LOS or throughput, I wonder?

[cahwyguy]

At the border, eliminate the ag station.  Have a truck-only inspection area with certain companies carrying certain loads given a pass through.  At that station place a group of emergency responders (police, fire, ambulance, tow trucks) to keep I-15 safe.  On order to allow coverage by ER units going both ways, build into the median "Official Use Only" U-turn setups with no more than 1 mile between them. 

Add in another large ER setup or two between Barstow and the border along with rest areas and services capable of handling commercial vehicles.  This will make 1-15 through the desert as safe and well serviced as possible. 

The AG station does serve a purpose -- even if it is just to make people think twice about bringing stuff into the state. Again, I'll refer to you a podcast that explains it better than I can:

Gastropod: Chocpocalypse Now! Quarantine and the Future of Food https://gastropod.com/chocpocalypse-now-quarantine-and-the-future-of-food/

GRABER: In the part of your book that focuses on food and crop quarantine, you visit a quarantine station on the California border with Arizona, it's called the Needles Inspection Station.

VEHICLE SOUND

MITCH VEGA: How you doing, bud? Good. This is his bills and all this is on here. They usually just have basic stuff. Auto parts. Yeah, nothing that concerns us. Have a good day, bud.

TWILLEY: This is Mitch Vega—he's getting the documents that say what the 18-wheeler in front of us is carrying. Needles is on the I-40, which is one of the big cross-country freeways coming into California. Every truck that comes into California on I-40, Mitch or one of his colleagues stops it.

VEGA: How you doing sir? Hazardous materials. Loads. Scotch tissue. Supply solutions. He's good. Mars Chocolate.

TWILLEY: We should hijack that one.

VEGA: We got a lot of chocolate that comes through here.

GRABER: The site is is out in the desert, there isn't much around, and it's called Needles because that's the name of a nearby city.

MANAUGH: It's basically a kind of a checkpoint that you would drive through on your way from Arizona into California. It's four lanes. There's generally about six people working there.

TWILLEY: Basically, it's a border control station run by the California Department of Agriculture. And they have one mission and one mission only, which is to intercept any plant diseases or pests that might be kind of hitchhiking their way into California from anywhere else and that might pose a threat to the California agricultural industry.

GRABER: Michele Jacobsen is in charge of the Needles Inspection Station.

MICHELE JACOBSEN: We have a lot of produce comes through. Anything. Citrus, your winter greens, kiwis coming in right now out of Italy. Sometimes South African oranges. Chile, a lot of stuff comes in through here from Chile, too. What they're doing is the inspectors are checking the bills of lading. So when the drivers pull up, they know that they have to give us our paperwork and we see what's going on.

TWILLEY: Depending on what's in the truck, Mitch and his colleagues might just wave the driver onward—like the Mars chocolate, or the auto parts. But if they're carrying produce, then it may well be subject to a quarantine order.

JACOBSEN: What's not under quarantine is easier to tell you than what's under quarantine. What's not under quarantine is a lot of your lettuces, your tomatoes are not under quarantine, your melons are not really under quarantine. Bananas, there's no quarantine on bananas. Onions and stuff don't have quarantines. But there's a lot of quarantines. It's easier to tell you what's not under quarantine.

TWILLEY: We were at the Needles checkpoint on one of the busiest days of their entire year—it was the peak of bee season, when trucks full of bees from all over the U.S. are flowing into California to pollinate all the almond trees. 75 billion bees to be precise. Every single truckload gets inspected. The ones that are pest-free get waved on. Geoff and I suited up in bee suits and Michele took us out to see some of the rejected bee trucks.

JACOBSEN: What we're doing over here is all these loads have been rejected for having pests on them. And it could be anything from a small hive beetle to any kind of an ant, it could be a fire ant. It could be a carpenter ant. And or anything that would be considered as a Q rating, which is something that is not determined to be established in California.

GRABER: Michele and her team are scouring the trucks they stop. They're searching for all kinds of tiny pests that haven't yet gotten into California, these Q-rated ones—and those are different kinds of beetles, ants, moths, flies. Because California is really concerned about what these creatures might do if they penetrate its borders.

TWILLEY: Well California is, as my garden is evidence, the fruit and vegetable capital of America. I mean, the agricultural industry here is massive. I think the latest estimate was that it's worth fifty billion dollars a year. Two thirds of America's fruits and nuts are produced in California was the stat that blew me away. And of that, it's 100 percent of all the almonds—all the almonds! All the almonds that are eaten in America and 80 percent of all the almonds that are eaten in all the world.

MANAUGH: You know, California is sort of two things at once. It's very, very geographically isolated in the sense that it is surrounded by mountains, deserts and the Pacific Ocean. And so it's kind of its own little unusual ecosystem. You know, species that have been here have been here for a very long time and species that have not been here have been, you know, separated by these natural barriers that exist. And so when newly introduced species do come here, they often find they have no natural predators.

GRABER: Michele and her team become the predators—they look to see if there are any bugs—and then they have to figure out if the bug is anything to be worried about.

TWILLEY: What's going on here?

JACOBSEN: He's checking under the microscope for a pest. He probably—did you find those on the bees, Matthew?

MATTHEW: Yeah.

JACOBSEN: So he found something on the bees and he's checking it. That's our digital imaging microscope. So he is taking a digital image and he's sending it down to our pest diagnostics lab. And they will send us back an email telling us what the insect is rated. And then we go from there.

TWILLEY: The pest diagnostics lab folks were actually on their lunch break, but as soon Michele and her team were able to confirm the bug's ID, then they would know whether they could let the truck full of bees through, or whether it had to be turned back to be disinfested—usually by pressure washing—and then reinspected. Sometimes the entire load has to be destroyed—not bees, they would just get turned away, but if it's a load of infested oranges, that's likely going straight in the incinerator.

GRABER: Infested oranges—that's a huge problem. In our citrus episode, we talked about how the Asian citrus psyllid is a massive issue because the little bug carries a bacterial disease that can completely destroy citrus crops. And California's citrus industry is valued at billions of dollars.

MANAUGH: Oh, yeah. I mean, that's part of the stress. And, you know, kind of the existential stakes actually, of the problem here is that you're dealing with unbelievably tiny little offenders, you know, things that are the size of a grain of rice or just an egg that might be the size of like a mustard seed.

TWILLEY: Michele told us that one of her proudest moments was stopping this tiny citrus psyllid at the border.

MANAUGH: Someone was moving across the country. They looked into their moving van and they had an entire tree back there. The tree itself did not look very healthy. You know, that was obviously a warning flag for them. They inspected that tree and that's when they found the citrus psyllid. And that, of course, is not something they want to let into California. It's found very fertile ground in Florida already. And it's actually wiped out an estimated five out of every seven Florida growers. It's a huge threat. And it's people like Michele Jacobson that are keeping it out of California.

GRABER: But like we said, the psyllid is the size of a grain of rice. How did they even think to look to find it in a moving van—I mean, that's not a truck carrying one of the crops of particular concern!

TWILLEY: I know! In a way it was just lucky—they also do random inspections, especially of cars and RVs with out-of-state plates and they happened to find it. But they do also have a logic to what they decide to inspect beyond just those trucks carrying crops that are on the quarantine list.

MANAUGH: The way Michele, who runs the station, described it to us, was basically "thinking like a pest." Trying to imagine where, if you're a pest, if you're a bug, if you're a little insect, where you would be in a container, in a truck bed, or maybe even just like a set of somebody's backyard patio furniture that they're bringing across the country to their new home in California. And so then that's where they'll look. So they'll think to themselves, OK, here's a nice little crack that this bug might lay some eggs here or here's a dark little corner where we might find something. And so that's where they look. And that's actually, it turns out, how they have found a lot of things.

GRABER: Do people try to sneak through things that they would want to inspect, like trees from their house or their moving pods or anything, are they trying to get things through the border?

TWILLEY: Yeah, all the time. And a lot of times people don't necessarily know. So one of the things Michele said was that people who live in their RVs and just kind of tool around, oftentimes they'll have a little like potted plant that they like to put out when they're actually kind of stationary somewhere and those can carry pests. She said, actually, one of the things she's seen is there's a huge rise in chainsaw art.

GRABER: Huh.

TWILLEY: Yeah, not a thing that I've dabbled in myself.

GRABER: I'm not sure what that is.

TWILLEY: I guess people take chainsaws and carve tree trunks and oftentimes, you know, they'll be like a little hole in the tree trunk. She's like, Oh, it's so beautiful. And then I look and there's a hole and there'll be a bug inside that hole.

GRABER: Oh my god.

TWILLEY: So she has a huge problem there. Some people lie. She pulled over a guy who had a bag of pecans, which are a Q-rated nut, and she said she was going to have to confiscate them and he said no and turned around and went back into Arizona, came back an hour later. The pecans were in his suitcase. Apparently he forgot.

GRABER: LAUGHS. Forgot in quotes.

TWILLEY: Exactly. And then the other thing that's really funny is like so many people are afraid of being caught with something that the entire freeway just before the checkpoint is just littered with people's fruit and vegetables. So people throw out their baby carrots, which they could totally bring through. Baby carrots aren't Q-rated. You know, people throw out their bananas. Not a problem. Again, there are, you know, no bananas to kill in California. So some people are so worried about being caught with something, which, of course, nothing happens. They either just take it away or clean it, but people see a checkpoint and panic. So.

GRABER: Of course Michele and her team can't check everything that comes through. They just can't. They do check all the trucks that are carrying crops that are known to harbor pests, but even there, they can't go over every inch. Traffic would be backed up for miles. So sometimes things do get through.

TWILLEY: An amazing example is the bee example. There's this incredibly disastrous bee mite that has been responsible for a lot of the colony collapse stuff you see. We talked about it in our honey episode. And this mite used to be a Q-rated pest. They used to inspect for it. Back in the 80s and 90s, they were inspecting for it. Eventually it got through. Now it's established. But that bought the time for them to start working on which chemicals can you spray your hive with to kill this mite. Those chemicals also have problems. So at the same time, they've been working on breeding something called a hygienic bee, which is resistant to the mite. So quarantine like: yes, kind of it failed in the sense of like now this mite is established in California, but it didn't fail in the sense that it bought more than a decade for people to figure out how to mitigate the consequences of the mite arriving, as it were.

MANAUGH: And I think that that's one of the things that happens, that even though things get through, you know, even though the quarantine is not total and it's not universally successful, what it does do is it gives us time to get ready for this thing to show up. And so what I mean by that is developing things like responses, treatments, even new pesticides. You know, getting people ready, maybe they have to plant new crops. Maybe they actually do need to physically design something into their existing farms or greenhouse operations to help filter out this thing that's coming. But quarantine is really vital then in the sense that even though it's not perfect, it allows us to get ready.

TWILLEY: Quarantine for plants does this, and so does quarantine for humans. You heard the expression flatten the curve everywhere in spring 2020—that was coined by the head of quarantine at the CDC, which is a story we tell in the book. He analyzed the 1918 flu and he realized the cities that did best used quarantine to buy themselves time—quarantine flattened that curve so doctors and hospitals could prepare to handle the disease. Same with the social distancing and so on of COVID. The point was to give us time to get ready and to come up with treatments and even vaccines.

GRABER: But one thing that did occur to me as I was reading about Needles Station is that it's not actually a real quarantine.

TWILLEY: Yeah, you're totally right. You called it, Cynthia. LAUGHS. The Needles border inspection station is not true quarantine, even by our own definition. But there is—you know, honestly, mostly for plants, there isn't such a thing as true quarantine because, you know, unlike people, plants are sort of not that valuable individually. And if you put it in the incinerator, you know, it's okay.

GRABER: Imagine an orange—whether it's the fruit or the tree, it's just not worth putting in quarantine to see if it gets sick. If you notice a problem, a bug of concern in the truck, or a sick plant, you might dump the whole truckload of crops or plants in the incinerator, frankly. It's cheaper to replace oranges than have a special quarantine facility to hold them. But some individual plants are indeed worth saving.

TWILLEY: And cacao is one of those plants. So we actually went and visited the International Cocoa Quarantine Center. It is in a small commuter town outside of London, bizarrely enough. Just a greenhouse. I mean, it's a big greenhouse, it's the size of an Olympic swimming pool, like a 20 minute-train ride from London.

GRABER: This one greenhouse is tasked with saving the world's chocolate. Coming up after this break.

[ClassicHasClass]

Congestion has been reduced significantly to the point major widenings on CA-99 have been canceled due to no more need. /s

Not to go further OT, but man, that Merced project is such a pain. I know it will make things better but it's hell getting through there, especially southbound.

[Max Rockatansky]

Congestion has been reduced significantly to the point major widenings on CA-99 have been canceled due to no more need. /s

Not to go further OT, but man, that Merced project is such a pain. I know it will make things better but it's hell getting through there, especially southbound.

Atwater was even worse if you can believe that.  That project found me detouring to County Route J7 many times. 

[Scott5114]

You might have better luck at the Federal level. Get it written into an infrastructure bill as an earmark. Oh, right, earmarks are out of favor, and won't get through a Republican house -- and this would likely be proposed by a Republican congresscritter.

Earmarks are actually coming back into fashion, as it's been recognized that, despite their negative popular perception, they're a necessary grease that keeps the wheels turning in Congress. There were a number of earmarks attached to various bills last Congress.

However, you're likely correct that this won't get through the current Republican House, although that's much more to do with the fact that nothing is getting through the House; if I remember correctly less than 100 bills have passed this Congress. There's a lot of infighting and friction between the various power centers in the House that make actually passing legislation way down the priorities list.

That being said, the obvious point person on this in the House, besides the Republicans who actually represent the area, would be Rep. Dina Titus (D-The Strip).

OK, so we get Nevada to pay for it.

Unfortunately, yeah, that might be the way it ends up going. Or more likely, /* borderline fictional content begins here */ Clark County pays for it, since Northern Nevada would probably balk at funding a road outside the state and with no obvious benefit to their region. (They're already pretty cheesed off about paying for the Athletics' stadium in Las Vegas.) Clark County is no stranger to building its own freeways, either.

However, getting them involved introduces its own complexities. If Clark County is footing the bill, it would make sense for them to want more oversight of the project than their actual (lack of) jurisdiction would grant. (This would mean you might end up with a bunch of Nevada-standard freeway in California, which would admittedly be pretty awesome from a roadgeek perspective due to how unusual it would be.)

[Bobby5280]

But Caltrans right now is on a quest not to reduce congestion times or improve level of service; they are (in accordance with the state's environmental goals) engineering many projects to reduce VMT, meaning having less cars on the road. Their stated goals. Not mine. I rarely if ever state my personal opinion here -- rather, I try to explain what I see Caltrans doing.

The California state government is succeeding in reducing the number of vehicles on the roads in one manner -by way of convincing people to move out of the state. Rich people are fleeing to places like Texas and Florida (where their tax bill is vastly lower). People without money are trying to escape due to absolutely crushing living costs. I don't even know how something like a fast food restaurant can staff up in a place like Los Angeles. I don't think they're paying fry cooks $50 per hour.

I also believe in induced demand, because I've seen and lived it. I commuted across I-405 during the construction of the HOV lanes. Horrid during construction, Great for about a year after they opened. Now -- even post pandemic, when more people are working from home -- the traffic is worse or as bad as it was before. 60 minutes Northridge to El Segundo in the morning. 90 minutes or more El Segundo to Northridge in the late afternoon. The lanes didn't really help.

Adding lanes to a freeway can work, but only if the design of the surface street grid is up to modern standards (which it isn't in most cases).

Houston is a good example of this. Some of the highways there are enormous; Katy Freeway is so wide that driving on it feels like driving on an airport taxi-way. But the surface street grid interfacing with it is badly outdated. There are no access controls. Driveways are everywhere. And there is lots of traffic signals. People exiting the freeway can't exit fast enough due to all the hold-ups on the surface level. Traffic backs up on the exit ramps and then it backs up into the freeway main lanes.

Cities not only need freeways, but they need surface arterial streets with limited numbers of intersections and little if any driveways connecting to them. Shopping centers, housing additions, etc need to be more self-contained and have limited outlets to the main arterials.

What I do believe is the answer is to take an ENTERPRISE or HOLISTIC view of our transit networks. Get off the slower, long distance trucks. Use trains to move containers between hubs, off the freeway separated from traffic, and then use trucks locally for the last mile.

I would agree with this, but America's rail industry is even more of a shit-show than the trucking industry. We have freight trains up to 3 miles long with only two human beings on board to operate and be on the lookout for any mechanical problems. But that's not good enough. The executives want only one employee on board. Eventually we're going to have a "bomb train" derail and wipe out a small town.

So why is rail not being utilized more then? I still don't think this would fix traffic issues from passenger cars especially during peak hours.

Passenger rail works only in dense population centers. It costs far too much for train service to adequately cover suburbs, small cities and towns. Even bus service has to be government-subsidized in small cities like the one where I live (and the service does not run 24/7 either). I'll also repeat the fact that standing at a bus stop exposed to the weather sucks ass. Right now it's really bad (currently 10°F and windy). Being able to drive from point A to point B inside a warm, personal vehicle can be pretty nice.

America's freight rail industry seems only interested in cutting costs. They're "decommissioning" far more miles of existing track than they're building new. They're reducing manpower, but demanding the remaining employees work marathon schedules and be on-call 24/7 always. Don't take vacations. Got a relative in the hospital? Kiss our ass. Work anyway or get fired. That's how our freight rail industry rolls these days.

Earmarks are actually coming back into fashion, as it's been recognized that, despite their negative popular perception, they're a necessary grease that keeps the wheels turning in Congress.

I think the effort of eliminating earmarks did just as much to help polarize politics as the cable news industry has done. If earmarks were allowed to become popular again you would see more lawmakers working across the aisle to make deals. The environment would grow more moderate and sane. Without those "sleazy" earmarks the politicians have no motivation to make deals. Instead they become performative jack-asses trying to media-whore their way onto cable TV.

[Scott5114]

Even bus service has to be government-subsidized in small cities like the one where I live (and the service does not run 24/7 either).

Pretty much every road (except for some turnpikes) is government-subsidized, so I don't really see why that would be a problem with a bus or a train.

[Bobby5280]

Passenger rail lines cost an absolutely profane amount of money to build, even slow-speed ones.

Bus lines in anything but big cities bleed red ink like mad. Ridership numbers are crap. It's Sunday afternoon now as I'm writing this and the temperature still hasn't got above 10°F. Windy too. Lots of fun waiting at a bus top exposed to that. Even in good weather a passenger still can't carry more than a bag or two of groceries onto a bus. Here in Lawton the city is spread out enough the limited number of bus routes require most passengers to walk at least a few blocks to reach the nearest bus stop. Now the bus system has to compete with services like Uber which, unlike our bus service, is available late in the evening. If someone partied too hard and needs a ride home he (or one of his friends) will can call an Uber rather than put him on a bus. Riding the bus is not fun or convenient.

While most streets and highways are government funded (the gasoline taxes we pay at the pump provide a healthy chunk) that pavement serves more purposes than just helping people commute to work.

[sprjus4]

^ I guess everyone has convenient access to a car, and screw everyone who doesn't / can't afford it?

[Max Rockatansky]

I always found it a little odd when people can afford and are physically able to drive but yet don't.  My uncle is like that, he makes a bunch of money and even collects cars.  The man is super hesitant to drive on high speed roads for whatever reason and goes way out of his way to find transit alternates.  The fact that he is fine with flying but not driving moderate-long distances makes it all the more vexing as an observer.

None of that is to say that there shouldn't be public transit options available those who need them.

[SSR_317]

...

This really sums up my thinking in a way I haven't adequately done. When I was on the way back from my first trip to Las Vegas in 2022, I was frustrated enough with the truck traffic on I-40 that I found myself shouting at random trucks that got in the way "YOU SHOULD BE A TRAIN."

Likewise, if there are people able and willing to use a train to commute, they should have the option to do so. That frees up capacity for those of us who prefer driving.

Every time I see a double-trailer truck (or heaven forbid, the TRIPLE-trailer ones you sometimes see out west), I scream, "Trains belong on the RAILROAD, not on the HIGHWAY!"

And don't even get me stated on the topic of so-called "autonomous vehicles" being allowed on our streets and highways.

[Max Rockatansky]

...

This really sums up my thinking in a way I haven't adequately done. When I was on the way back from my first trip to Las Vegas in 2022, I was frustrated enough with the truck traffic on I-40 that I found myself shouting at random trucks that got in the way "YOU SHOULD BE A TRAIN."

Likewise, if there are people able and willing to use a train to commute, they should have the option to do so. That frees up capacity for those of us who prefer driving.

Every time I see a double-trailer truck (or heaven forbid, the TRIPLE-trailer ones you sometimes see out west), I scream, "Trains belong on the RAILROAD, not on the HIGHWAY!"

And don't even get me stated on the topic of so-called "autonomous vehicles" being allowed on our streets and highways.

The land trains (three trailers) are mostly a Nevada special.  It isn't hard to pass them on the likes of two lane roads like US 95 north of Las Vegas (thinking of the I-11 to Reno fans in the crowd).