🛣 Headlines About California Highways – December 2023

[cahwyguy]

As the month and the year come to a close, its time for the last headline post of 2023. There's loads of interesting stuff in here, including some pontificating from Streetsblog LA that you would expect, a rejection of an allocation by the CTC that you wouldn't expect (but that Streetsblog was happy about), the death of Gary Richards, bridges being replaced, corridors being improved, the Draft EIR for the Last Chance Grade, the release of the draft 2024 SHOPP for comments, and much more.

So, ready, set, ....

Oh, and you can expect updates to the California Highways pages sometime Sat 12/30. The next podcast episode is pending Tom being available for a recording session.

Now, here's the link: https://cahighways.org/wordpress/?p=16644

And, this time... ready, set, discuss.

[Plutonic Panda]

Stop including streetsblog. They're fucking full of shit. "I know you won't"

[cahwyguy]

Stop including streetsblog. They're fucking full of shit. "I know you won't"

I include what comes up from my Google search on California Highways. They talk about highways, and occasionally have useful information (for example, they had the information on the CTC rejection of an allocation, which I might not have discovered without looking at the minutes in January. They do have a specific point of view, as other outlets do. They are correct in that California's approach to highways is changing, and those changes won't fit will with the older highway mindset (which is common on this forum). But that's not a reason to censure them; rather, we should be able to see the other points of view. Very little of what they post makes it into my pages, but I still find it of interest.

[Max Rockatansky]

One year for Warlow Rest Area to open seems way excessive. 

I'll likely be heading out to Big Sur whenever is fully reopened.  I kind of got a hankering to drive it again after recording episode 2.04 of the CAroutexroute podcast.

I did try to convince my wife to visit Solvang this weekend.  I was hoping to incorporate the recently reopened 33 as a soft transition to get some photos of Hudson Ranch Road.  Alas, she wasn't interested in an overnight trip I'm not feeling 8 hours plus in the car with winter daylight.

That extra northbound lane on 41 is badly needed in Fresno.  The transition of 41 north 180 between the McKinley and Shields exits can be hellacious during morning rush hours.  The McKinley exit is way too close to the 180 interchange but likely will never be closed due to the access it provides to Fresno City College.

[Plutonic Panda]

Stop including streetsblog. They're fucking full of shit. "I know you won't"

I include what comes up from my Google search on California Highways. They talk about highways, and occasionally have useful information (for example, they had the information on the CTC rejection of an allocation, which I might not have discovered without looking at the minutes in January. They do have a specific point of view, as other outlets do. They are correct in that California's approach to highways is changing, and those changes won't fit will with the older highway mindset (which is common on this forum). But that's not a reason to censure them; rather, we should be able to see the other points of view. Very little of what they post makes it into my pages, but I still find it of interest.

I know I'm somewhat joking. Even though I disagree with a lot of their stances, sometimes they have articles of note where I find information I didn't know before about things happening.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'll likely be heading out to Big Sur whenever is fully reopened.  I kind of got a hankering to drive it again after recording episode 2.04 of the CAroutexroute podcast.

You better because it won't be too long until it's closed again lol

[Max Rockatansky]

I'll likely be heading out to Big Sur whenever is fully reopened.  I kind of got a hankering to drive it again after recording episode 2.04 of the CAroutexroute podcast.

You better because it won't be too long until it's closed again lol

If the Nacimiento Road was open like it was in 2017 I would have been out there several times this year.

[SeriesE]

Speaking of rest areas, the one on I-5 south of CA-165 is still closed. Last I checked on the lane closures site it was supposed to reopen by 9/30/2023.

[pderocco]

"Officials said this will allow signals to be controlled remotely by Caltrans to lower speeds and reduce congestion."

Isn't "lower speed" more or less the definition of "congestion"?

[pderocco]

"California State Transportation Agency Secretary Toks Omishakin and the San Diego Association of Governments Saturday joined state and local officials on the Siempre Viva Road Interchange to commemorate the completion of the roadway network connecting to the future Otay Mesa East Port of Entry."

I don't get it. What are they commemorating? I was down there last weekend, a couple weeks after this article was published, and neither the Siempre Viva interchange nor the stretch of CA-11 that extends to it are open, or look like they'll be opening any time soon. The bit of Siempre Viva Road east of the interchange is open, because several new industrial buildings are being constructed in that neighborhood, but the interchange is fenced off.

[cahwyguy]

"Officials said this will allow signals to be controlled remotely by Caltrans to lower speeds and reduce congestion."

Isn't "lower speed" more or less the definition of "congestion"?

Depends on how many cars are on the road. I've seen uncongested 15mph segments of road.

But their goal there is safety, not getting people through faster. If that leads to congestion, they are probably happy with it because congested traffic doesn't lead to deaths of the people on the side of the road, or in other vehicles.

[For reference, as the context wasn't included: This relates to the stretch of Route 1 Malibu near Pepperdine.]

[Plutonic Panda]

Whatever came out of that story? Last I heard there was an altercation at a bar and one guy(the who crashed and killed those people) left and then another guy followed him so he started driving erratically.

Also if there's congestion what is the point of reducing the speed limit by a number on a sign? I rarely see CHP enforcing speed limits anyways and I'm on this stretch every other week sometimes once a week. Furthermore if there's congestion traffic is already going slow anyways. Always tons of tourist who follow the speed limit to a tee because they want any problems with foreign police.

[cahwyguy]

Whatever came out of that story? Last I heard there was an altercation at a bar and one guy(the who crashed and killed those people) left and then another guy followed him so he started driving erratically.

Also if there's congestion what is the point of reducing the speed limit by a number on a sign? I rarely see CHP enforcing speed limits anyways and I'm on this stretch every other week sometimes once a week. Furthermore if there's congestion traffic is already going slow anyways. Always tons of tourist who follow the speed limit to a tee because they want any problems with foreign police.

There were two articles on plans for that segment:

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/major-traffic-safety-project-begins-along-pacific-coast-highway/

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-12-20/malibus-21-mile-stretch-of-pch-is-seeing-improvements-months-after-fatal-crash

A $4.2-million contract approved last week will allow Caltrans to move forward on a draft list of 30 upgrades, California Transportation Secretary Toks Omishakin said — including enhanced striping in curves, optical speed bars (stripes spaced at gradually decreasing distances to make drivers aware of their speed), speed feedback signs, speed limit markings on the pavement and replacement of safety corridor signs.

Long-sought improvements at the local level are also underway. During the first week of December, crews began installing communication lines that will allow Caltrans to remotely control traffic signals on the highway, synchronize their timing and adjust them to lower traffic speeds and reduce congestion.

The new equipment will capture real-time traffic data and send it to controllers who can adjust signal timing so that vehicles going over the speed limit will encounter red lights, while those going the speed limit will encounter green lights — ultimately reducing the flow of speeding traffic.

The $34.6-million yearlong project will also include new closed-circuit TV cameras at each intersection, street improvements and accessibility upgrades and changeable message signs. It was fully funded by Measure R funds administered by the Los Angeles Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

The project was approved seven years ago, but because the highway is under California Department of Transportation jurisdiction, it had to be reviewed by the state.

[Plutonic Panda]

First off, I don't think most of the proposed improvements are going to do much. I'm not happy about speed cameras that have been mentioned that I will just do nothing but generate revenue for the city and make people aware of where they are to slow down and then speed up again above the speed limit creating more emissions.

The visibility crap might help a bit but the timing of the lights to automatically turn red. If a car is going over the speed limit is ridiculous. I'm not going to admit on here what I do when I realize I become familiar with traffic lights like that but I'm pretty sure a lot of other people and I have witnessed this are going to start disregarding them entirely.

This whole mess is because Caltrans won't widen roads like the one01 or building an under seat tunnel to alleviate traffic that is going to Ventura or the hills. a lot of the traffic on this road outside of beach traffic days are people trying to bypass 101 traffic and getting to Agoura Hills other areas like that.

Then you have your ultra rich, super speeders that have hyper cars and young kids with a lot of money where this road is popular to race down and post on YouTube. This just seems to me like another jab at making it harder to drive, and not really about what happened which was the genesis of my original response.

What caused this kid to go as fast as he did and lose control? Because the narrative seems to imply, he was just speeding because of the road design encourages people to speed. But there's other stories that say he was being chased by somebody. I can't find anything else about it.

[Occidental Tourist]

The ultimate problem is that highway 1 is designed to achieve contradictory aims.  It is at times a regional thru route, a commuter corridor, a beach parking lot, a residential street, and a business district.  Sometimes it wears multiple hats, e.g., the portion between Topanga Canyon and Malibu Pier, where it's a four lane highway with driveways sometimes on both sides of the road but also has roadside beach parking and access.

I'm not a big fan of road diets, but I would seriously consider some form of lane reduction-based traffic calming for that section. Or at least consider traffic calming by channelizing lanes and installing more signalized pedestrian crosswalks just to slow traffic.

[cahwyguy]

This whole mess is because Caltrans won't widen roads like the one01 or building an under seat tunnel to alleviate traffic that is going to Ventura or the hills. a lot of the traffic on this road outside of beach traffic days are people trying to bypass 101 traffic and getting to Agoura Hills other areas like that.

One doesn't take the coast route to bypass US 101. One takes 118 to the 23, or the 126. Nor are tunnels the answer.

A road diet might be the answer, as would increased HAWK lights and parking that is safe. But I grew up in the Palisades, driving Sunset and PCH. I know the traffic there, and it has been a problem since the road opened.

Heavy enforcement zones would also help, but that takes staffing that the agencies just don't have. In the end, the answer boils down to the Four Es. We're trying to focus on Engineering, but Education and Enforcement as key to keeping roads safe, and having emergency services available quickly, with open trauma centers, saves lives.

[Plutonic Panda]

Many take PCH to bypass 101 traffic. A road diet on the PCH through Malibu just might be one the dumbest things I've ever heard. Even worse than canceling the 710 tunnel.

[RZF]

I take CA 1 into LA because it's the faster route from where I'm at (for the most part). Even now, the stretch between Cross Creek Rd and the I-10 merger allows for traffic to flow at about 40-50 mph regardless of the time of day. The road is too narrow and windy to go faster, especially with all of the houses basically brushing up on the shoulder. So, the new Caltrans safety procedures won't hurt commute times or how traffic typically flows.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ I thought no one did that lol

But seriously what they're proposing might help but a road diet here is absolutely moronic. It'll cause road rage and increased emissions. Slowing down traffic isn't always the answer. Slower doesn't mean better.

[cahwyguy]

But seriously what they're proposing might help but a road diet here is absolutely moronic. It'll cause road rage and increased emissions. Slowing down traffic isn't always the answer. Slower doesn't mean better.

Slower doesn't mean better (but "better" is dependent on a particular point of view, and can't be reliably measured)... but on certain roads, slower traffic does mean safer (and that can be measured). It can certainly be measured in the lives and injuries of pedestrians and those on bicycles. Road rage is illegal, and therefore enforcement will help. As for increased emissions, driving faster doesn't always reduce emissions. It may also move the traffic that wants to go faster to roads where it is safer to go faster.

Climbs on soapbox.

Our mapping apps have instilled the notion that it is better to go faster to save an extra 3-5 minutes. With paper maps, you chose the route based on distance and the nature of the route for where you wanted to travel. Folks wanting to save those extra minutes are the ones that weave in and out (at least from what I've seen), and tend to endanger traffic. We need to learn that it is OK to go slower, and to read the postmiles and bridge signage along the way.

Climbs down from soapbox.

[Plutonic Panda]

5 to 10 minutes each way adds up pretty quickly. Just because something illegal doesn't mean people won't do it. On certain roads, I don't believe this road is that certain road. There's not many other alternatives. Reopen the segment of Mulholland Drive that's been closed. Build an under sea tunnel from the I 10 terminus in Santa Monica to Oxnard. Remove the parking lanes and build massive parking garages alongside the mountains and where possible, and at either a streetcar, or a bus lane on the shoulder along with a pedestrian path.

Do some of those things and I could get behind a road diet and advocate for slower speeds on PCH. Speed limits really aren't that unreasonable on PCH as are.

[cahwyguy]

5 to 10 minutes each way adds up pretty quickly.

Actually, in a single trip, it adds up to ... 5 to 10 minutes each way. Pretty small in the scheme of things, especially if you leave a little earlier.

Reopen the segment of Mulholland Drive that's been closed.

That's on a path to reopening soon; see https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-08-12/the-snake-is-moving-closer-to-reopening-but-can-it-shed-its-dangerous-reputation . But it won't buy you anything, because a main aim of the county is to slow traffic down on that segment. Further, Mulholland is not a major traffic route across the mountains.

Build an under sea tunnel from the I 10 terminus in Santa Monica to Oxnard.

There you are into fantasy highwayland. You're talking a 40+ mile undersea tunnel. It would never pass CCC muster; it would never pass the EIR; it would never get the funding; and with gas-powered vehicles, it would never be safe (imagine a fire in the middle of the tunnel). Further, it wouldn't work. People want to be able to exit and visit beaches and other locations in Malibu. They want to see the beaches, see the coastline. They don't want to drive in an artificially lit tunnel for 40+ miles, with no exits.

You would have better luck resurrecting the Causeway in the Ocean proposals from the mid-1960s, but those would not fly for the reasons they failed then, plus the environmental stuff that came after.

Remove the parking lanes and build massive parking garages alongside the mountains and where possible, and at either a streetcar, or a bus lane on the shoulder along with a pedestrian path.

Building additional parking garages would solve some (but not all) of the problems, but there needs to be safe crossing paths. It doesn't help with the bicycle problem. There's also the question of where the land for those garages comes from, and whether those garages, being in the coastal zone, would pass CCC muster. Adding bus lanes has a similar problem -- where does the land come from?

Do some of those things and I could get behind a road diet and advocate for slower speeds on PCH. Speed limits really aren't that unreasonable on PCH as are.

The answer is in the four "E"s. We need to engineer the road to encourage slower driving. But more importantly, we need to teach people that if you are trying to make time, PCH is not the road for you. PCH is for scenic leisurely drives up the coast, and US 101, Route 118, and Route 126 are for making time. Put improvements into those three routes. Enforce speed policies along PCH in Malibu.

However, none of this will happen fast, just because of the nature of the highway improvement process, the CTC, and the CCC.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm aware the undersea tunnel won't happen here but Norway seems to have no problems building them. The USA used to be able to build bigger and better infrastructure. Widen the 101 then. Of course none of those things will happen.

Regarding Mulholland I wasn't referring to the snake I was referring to the dirt road section where people hike. Again something they also won't happen.

5-10 minutes each way could be 10-20 minutes a day added which over the course of time absolutely adds up even if we don't notice it that much. I've seen transit projects that cost an arm and a leg that only reduce travel times by 10-20 minutes. So yes it is a big deal.

Back to to the tunnel if built right you could minimize impacts to aesthetics of Mother Natures beauty. I'm sure people don't like the oil rigs either. Plenty of coastline to the north if seeing major infrastructure in a major metro bothers you. I'd bet tons of people would take a 40 mile undersea tunnel if meant their commutes were cut in half. Build an undersea interchange like Norway to connect with Malibu Canyon and Kanan as well. Toll the tunnel and I bet it's a huge success no matter how much opposition it gets. Create artificial coral reefs along it etc.

Yes I'm aware it's fantasyland but the reason I bring it up is because if we're suggesting lane reductions on PCH through Malibu which you obviously never drive if you suggest something like that. It can already take well over an hour to get from the pier to sunset if you hit during a beach day or at the wrong time.

Where would the bus lanes go? There's shoulders on the eastern side. There's shoulders on the western side except where homes have their driveways which busses can simply merge onto GP lanes around those. Some excavation work and retaining walls will be needed but make the busses free and build tourist like trolley busses to run special busses during beach days.

There's land that can redeveloped. You can build into the side of mountains. There's room for parking garages. That won't happen because of NIMBYs. The most realistic attempt at that could be done at the Vons at Sunset and PCH. Redevelop it into a transit hub and housing with retail and a grocer at the bottom.

Yes I'm aware of the moronic Coastal Commission which can take half a decade at least to even vote yes for a private home design to be built along the sea. That commission needs to be disbanded but that's another conversation for another day.

I understand what you're saying and I'm not acting like anything I'm proposing will actually happen but it's due to the politics and mentality not engineering limitations. So given that I would be against anything that would slow down traffic on PCH. At this point if we can't find any other alternative, traffic needs to be faster flowing on PCH.

And I still wanna know what the real cause of the accident and what was behind it. Because it wasn't the speed limit there seems to be more to the story than just some kid doing fast because of the way the road was designed. People tried making that same argument about Los Feliz BLVD when a person or two were killed a few years back. No changes were made to that road. They shut down a very nice park road to drive because a cyclists was killed in Griffith Park. All vehicles supposedly speeding too fast for conditions and road design.

I also won't support increasing the presence of road pirates there simply to get more money under the guys of wanting to protect the public from "dangerous" speeders. Just seems like these people are being out to be made martyr to make driving harder in southern California. The sad fact is people are going to keep dying on the roadways it happened for as long as roads have existed. So are we just gonna keep closing off lanes? Slowing down traffic? Shutting down roads entirely? Have cops on every corner, ready to write speeders tickets so the city could make money off of it? Take peoples licenses that they require to go to work with? Then they'll drive anyways like I did for years. I mean all of that is just bullshit.

The answer is more infrastructure. We have outgrown our infrastructure. There are more cars on the road. There are more people on our buses and trains. it is taking longer to get to and from peoples homes and work. It's costing more and more to live closer to Work. People are getting more frustrated. I work for DoorDash and Uber eats. I drive 100+ miles around the LA area every single day when I'm not in school or working and acting/music gig. I see how aggressive drivers are getting. You can't hire enough police to fix this.


The only reason hiring enough police officers might even remotely work in Malibu is because of the NimbyS that live there that don't want anyone else to live there. So you either have open roads where you can go as fast as you want where you can get caught. Or the road so congested it takes you damn near hour to go a mile.

You are also completely wrong about commuters, not using PCH to bypass the 101 and then taking either Topanga Canyon, Malibu Canyon/Las Virgenes, and sometimes even Kanan or continuing to Oxnard just for a more relaxing drive even if it takes a bit longer.

[cahwyguy]

I'm well aware of folks using PCH for commuting. Remember, pre-pandemic, I was driving a vanpool every day from Northridge to El Segundo. I knew folks that were commuting from Westlake or T.O. to El Segundo, daily. Hell, I drove to El Segundo today, and would be there now if the network had been working right.

The answer to commuters is not, as you suggest, to keep increasing capacity and widening roads. That's a solution with no end; it has increases carbon output (at least with current technology). The solution is to get those commuters out of their cars. There are many ways to do that: Remote work is one of them; moving the jobs closer to where people live is another; and a third is to get more people in each vehicle. So rail solutions to centers where people can then fan out to employers would be viable, and then people just need to drive short local distances. How do we do this? The answer is short-term pain. If those commuting alternatives become more painful -- via such things as road diets -- the commuters will move elsewhere. It's certainly a reason why I went to a vanpool (and I still miss it), and why people want hybrid work. Fixing housing prices is another solution -- there is less commuting when people can afford to live where they work.

But the ideas you suggest are fantasyland. They aren't going to be happening, realistically.

As for why this is happening: It's not just this one case -- although that was a catalyst. There has been a series of incidents over the years. PCH has always been a deathtrap thanks to speeders, certainly going back to when I was in high school in the Palisades in the 1970s, and long before. Now there's a push to do more about it.

Taking it back to the headlines: See https://www.change.org/p/21-miles-petition-for-safety-improvements-and-educational-initiatives-on-the-pacific-coast . There is an increasing push to address the safety issues on PCH. Perhaps something will happen this time. But it will take much longer than these folks realize.

[Plutonic Panda]

The answer is to keep widening roads and adding capacity. there will be an endpoint at some time. Humanity is not gonna last forever. Things are gonna change so society and our concept of life as a whole is going to change but that gets into an entirely different conversation about human philosophy. At this point we'll just keep going in circles, so I'll agree to disagree.

The problem here is the way the state builds, its infrastructure, or lack there of. That's the issue. That's the root cause of the issue.