This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom

[kurumi]

Arkansas always seemed (to me) like it would fit inside Ohio with a little room to spare.

Nope.

AR (53K square miles) is larger than OH (44K), PA (46K), and even NC (52.6K). If you exclude water area, AR is also larger than NY state.

Reason for this "illusion": probably older atlases that gave AR one page and gave OH a 2-page spread; OH having more than twice as many 2-digit interstates; and AR being next to TX, OK and MO. (Its other neighbors -- MO, LA, and TN -- well, Arkansas is bigger than those too.)

[inkyatari]

Arkansas always seemed (to me) like it would fit inside Ohio with a little room to spare.

Nope.

AR (53K square miles) is larger than OH (44K), PA (46K), and even NC (52.6K). If you exclude water area, AR is also larger than NY state.

(snip)

(Its other neighbors -- MO, LA, and TN -- well, Arkansas is bigger than those too.)

According to the list I saw, MO is bigger than Arkansas

[kurumi]

Arkansas always seemed (to me) like it would fit inside Ohio with a little room to spare.

Nope.

AR (53K square miles) is larger than OH (44K), PA (46K), and even NC (52.6K). If you exclude water area, AR is also larger than NY state.

(snip)

(Its other neighbors -- MO, LA, and TN -- well, Arkansas is bigger than those too.)

According to the list I saw, MO is bigger than Arkansas

My mistake. MO is larger, MS (instead of MO) is smaller.

[US 89]

Reason for this "illusion": probably older atlases that gave AR one page and gave OH a 2-page spread.

Not just older ones; my 2017 Rand McNally atlas does something similar. Arkansas gets one 2-page spread, but Ohio has two 2-page spreads: an "Ohio/Northern" and "Ohio/Southern".

[cpzilliacus]

Most of the westernmost county of Maryland (Garrett  County) lies west of the Eastern Continental Divide, and thus in the watershed of the Mississippi River (as per the signs on I-68 near Green Lantern Road like this and this). 

Many of the East Coast states have territory that extends into the Mississippi watershed, including Maryland as per above, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia.

[jwolfer]

Arkansas always seemed (to me) like it would fit inside Ohio with a little room to spare.

Nope.

AR (53K square miles) is larger than OH (44K), PA (46K), and even NC (52.6K). If you exclude water area, AR is also larger than NY state.

Reason for this "illusion": probably older atlases that gave AR one page and gave OH a 2-page spread; OH having more than twice as many 2-digit interstates; and AR being next to TX, OK and MO. (Its other neighbors -- MO, LA, and TN -- well, Arkansas is bigger than those too.)

I think of the "1 page states" as being smaller than they are..

NJ gets 2 pages. WY gets one. And Wyoming is gigantic in comparison.

LGMS428

[inkyatari]

Some things that physically make Arkansas seem smaller than it is are being a smaller population, and when you drive through, Little Rock is smack in the middle, making it seem like a shorter distance.  That and it's almost square shape...

[jeffandnicole]

Arkansas always seemed (to me) like it would fit inside Ohio with a little room to spare.

Nope.

AR (53K square miles) is larger than OH (44K), PA (46K), and even NC (52.6K). If you exclude water area, AR is also larger than NY state.

Reason for this "illusion": probably older atlases that gave AR one page and gave OH a 2-page spread; OH having more than twice as many 2-digit interstates; and AR being next to TX, OK and MO. (Its other neighbors -- MO, LA, and TN -- well, Arkansas is bigger than those too.)

I think of the "1 page states" as being smaller than they are..

NJ gets 2 pages. WY gets one. And Wyoming is gigantic in comparison.

LGMS428

But NJ has a lot more 'stuff'.  It has way more towns than WY.  Trying to fit NJ on a single page ends up leaving out a lot of the various small towns that are fairly essential to such an atlas map.

Heck, Wyoming's two largest counties are both larger than the entire state of New Jersey!  Yet...the populations for both counties would only be considered a medium size *town* in NJ!

[jwolfer]

Arkansas always seemed (to me) like it would fit inside Ohio with a little room to spare.

Nope.

AR (53K square miles) is larger than OH (44K), PA (46K), and even NC (52.6K). If you exclude water area, AR is also larger than NY state.

Reason for this "illusion": probably older atlases that gave AR one page and gave OH a 2-page spread; OH having more than twice as many 2-digit interstates; and AR being next to TX, OK and MO. (Its other neighbors -- MO, LA, and TN -- well, Arkansas is bigger than those too.)

I think of the "1 page states" as being smaller than they are..

NJ gets 2 pages. WY gets one. And Wyoming is gigantic in comparison.

LGMS428

But NJ has a lot more 'stuff'.  It has way more towns than WY.  Trying to fit NJ on a single page ends up leaving out a lot of the various small towns that are fairly essential to such an atlas map.

Heck, Wyoming's two largest counties are both larger than the entire state of New Jersey!  Yet...the populations for both counties would only be considered a medium size *town* in NJ!

Yeah NJ has a lot more stuff. Its funny even though i know the size of states, because of the way they are laid out in atlases i think of cetrain states as much smaller than they are..The western states and Canadian provinces.. Even as knowlegeable as i am about geography i am sometimes surprised ehen i see a true scale mapa of North America..

Is Delaware really that tiny? And my God Nevada is huge!

LGMS428

[bing101]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drawbridge,_California. There's a ghost town near San Jose and its called Drawbridge, CA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttGi9F2MeWA

[bing101]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norristown,_California.

Well there's a ghost town called Hoboken, CA except this ghost town has been erased apparently by modern sprawl of Sacramento county.

[bing101]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ghost_towns_in_California.


California has lots of Ghost Towns on the list. Some of the Ghost towns in Sacramento County became part of Folsom and the Folsom dam.

Some of the Ghost town listed in Los Angeles County later became parts of Santa Clarita.

[Max Rockatansky]

Hell there are hundreds of ghost towns and former rail sidings all over California that aren't even on those lists.  What will throw most for a loop is that there several hundred ghost towns in Florida of all places.  Most had something to do with; rails, lumber, citrus, or even phosphate mining. 

[The Nature Boy]

The size of Maine throws people for a loop. Most people assume that it's a "small New England state" but it's almost the size of Indiana.

[dvferyance]

That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that? Also Milwaukee is closer to Indianapolis about 280 miles then to Minneapolis about 330 miles. Yet I will see some Vikings stuff sold around here but never any Colts stuff.

[cl94]

The size of Maine throws people for a loop. Most people assume that it's a "small New England state" but it's almost the size of Indiana.

Yep. Maine is as large as the rest of New England combined. It takes a loooooong time to travel I-95 through the state, even with the 70-75 mph speed limits.

Many of the East Coast states have territory that extends into the Mississippi watershed, including Maryland as per above, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia.

Yup. The Southern Tier of NY west of Allegany County (correct spelling) drains into the Ohio River. Chautauqua Lake, less than 8 miles from Lake Erie, drains into the Allegheny/Ohio/Mississippi. The watershed line is that close to Lake Erie. Similarly, most of the Southern Tier east of Allegany County drains into the Susquehanna, as does most of Central New York (Allegany County generally drains into Lake Ontario via the Genesee River). Further east in the state, the Hudson River in Glens Falls (far from the river's beginning) is about a mile from the St. Lawrence watershed. The summit of the Champlain Canal is actually in Hudson Falls, very close to where it leaves the Hudson. As far as Pennsylvania (a Great Lakes state), the only areas draining into the lakes themselves are the I-90 corridor and near the Genesee River.

New York actually has a shocking amount of ghost towns as well. Several mining towns in the Adirondacks (Tahawus being one of the most famous and definitely worth a visit) are abandoned and several towns in the Catskills were condemned for construction of New York City's reservoirs.

That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

[The Nature Boy]

That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

[cl94]

That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Eh, Buffalo is weird. Not a lot of baseball fans in general and a surprising amount root for Boston because they hate NYC.

[The Nature Boy]

That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Eh, Buffalo is weird. Not a lot of baseball fans in general and a surprising amount root for Boston because they hate NYC.

Eh I'd buy it. It's kind of hard for me to associate the Yankees with the North Country, Central and Western New York. The Yankees ARE NYC (and maybe the Hudson Valley up to Albany) to me. I wonder if people outside of New England feel the same about the Sox and northern New England though.

How many baseball cities is Buffalo closer to than New York City? I'm guessing Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Toronto.

[cl94]

That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Eh, Buffalo is weird. Not a lot of baseball fans in general and a surprising amount root for Boston because they hate NYC.

Eh I'd buy it. It's kind of hard for me to associate the Yankees with the North Country, Central and Western New York. The Yankees ARE NYC (and maybe the Hudson Valley up to Albany) to me. I wonder if people outside of New England feel the same about the Sox and northern New England though.

How many baseball cities is Buffalo closer to than New York City? I'm guessing Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Toronto.

Correct. North Country generally roots Yankees excluding the Champlain Valley. Albany is mixed, but mostly Yankees. Central NY is Yankees territory as well. It's really only Western NY that has the crazy hatred of NYC (while people elsewhere hate them, they understand that NYC provides all the money). As far as football, on the other hand, Upstate outside the Hudson Valley and Albany metro is Bills country.

[jp the roadgeek]

That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Eh, Buffalo is weird. Not a lot of baseball fans in general and a surprising amount root for Boston because they hate NYC.

Eh I'd buy it. It's kind of hard for me to associate the Yankees with the North Country, Central and Western New York. The Yankees ARE NYC (and maybe the Hudson Valley up to Albany) to me. I wonder if people outside of New England feel the same about the Sox and northern New England though.

How many baseball cities is Buffalo closer to than New York City? I'm guessing Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Toronto.

I really wouldn't say Berkshire County, MA is Yankee territory.  The NY/MA  border is a pretty hard line between The Nation and The Empire, as is the NY/VT border, except that there seems to be more of a gradual shift as you get closer to the Canadian border, as there even used to be somewhat of an Expos fan base mixed in that area because it's closer to Montreal.  There are a couple of Yankee fan pockets in New England outside of CT: Federal Hill in Providence, The North End in Boston, and the area around Fort Kent, ME.  On the other hand, the forks of Long Island have almost as many Red Sox fans as there are Yankees (and Mets) fans.  The real debate is:  Where does the proverbial "Munson/Nixon Line" fall in CT?  Personally, I see it this way:  Anywhere west of the Housatonic River is Yankee Territory.  Anywhere east of the Connecticut River valley is Red Sox, and the area in between is "The Gray Zone" where all bets are off and allegiance divide neighbors and families.  New Haven area leans NY, while the Hartford area north leans Red Sox.  I am southwest of Hartford, and I truly have to say my town is 50/50 (although if you told my cable company that before 2005, they would have laughed at you because they picked up YES on day one but refused to add NESN until The Curse was reversed).   

[The Nature Boy]

That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Eh, Buffalo is weird. Not a lot of baseball fans in general and a surprising amount root for Boston because they hate NYC.

Eh I'd buy it. It's kind of hard for me to associate the Yankees with the North Country, Central and Western New York. The Yankees ARE NYC (and maybe the Hudson Valley up to Albany) to me. I wonder if people outside of New England feel the same about the Sox and northern New England though.

How many baseball cities is Buffalo closer to than New York City? I'm guessing Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Toronto.

I really wouldn't say Berkshire County, MA is Yankee territory.  The NY/MA  border is a pretty hard line between The Nation and The Empire, as is the NY/VT border, except that there seems to be more of a gradual shift as you get closer to the Canadian border, as there even used to be somewhat of an Expos fan base mixed in that area because it's closer to Montreal.  There are a couple of Yankee fan pockets in New England outside of CT: Federal Hill in Providence, The North End in Boston, and the area around Fort Kent, ME.  On the other hand, the forks of Long Island have almost as many Red Sox fans as there are Yankees (and Mets) fans.  The real debate is:  Where does the proverbial "Munson/Nixon Line" fall in CT?  Personally, I see it this way:  Anywhere west of the Housatonic River is Yankee Territory.  Anywhere east of the Connecticut River valley is Red Sox, and the area in between is "The Gray Zone" where all bets are off and allegiance divide neighbors and families.  New Haven area leans NY, while the Hartford area north leans Red Sox.  I am southwest of Hartford, and I truly have to say my town is 50/50 (although if you told my cable company that before 2005, they would have laughed at you because they picked up YES on day one but refused to add NESN until The Curse was reversed).

The Expos reach into New England and Northern New York has always been a question of mine. I assume that the Francophone communities along the border supported Montreal with maybe a slight boost in the Burlington, Vermont market because of the presence of the minor league team there. I assume that the Expos got a fair amount of coverage in the Burlington, VT market anyway because of the reach of local stations into Quebec (When I lived in NH, I was in that market and they claimed Montreal).

[amroad17]

The zip code in which I live is 83% Cincinnati Reds--some are as high as 85-86% in nearby zip codes.  I must be one of the 3% whose favorite team is the New York Yankees (a fan since 1975).

[jp the roadgeek]

I question the validity of this poll for my ZIP Code, since it is a poll done by a New York paper.  There is NO WAY that there are 12% more Yankee fans in my ZIP code than Red Sox fans.  Most readers of the Times are New York centric.  If this poll were performed by the Boston Globe, it would be the opposite.

[The Nature Boy]

I question the validity of this poll for my ZIP Code, since it is a poll done by a New York paper.  There is NO WAY that there are 12% more Yankee fans in my ZIP code than Red Sox fans.  Most readers of the Times are New York centric.  If this poll were performed by the Boston Globe, it would be the opposite.

Their methodology was based off of Facebook users who like the team page. It's imperfect but probably the best that you can do to get that microlevel of data.