This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom

[ethanhopkin14]

I just read it as the most northern part of Arkansas is still south of the most northern part of Texas.

As I said before, they're in line. Both are 36°30'.

Right or wrong, that's what I read.  It had northing to do with the data, but the fact still remains that Arkansas is not further north than Texas.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Pittsburgh is closer to Detroit than it is to Philadelphia.

This doesn't really surprise me given culturally being more like Detroit/Cleveland/Buffalo than Phuladelphia.

[MikieTimT]

I just read it as the most northern part of Arkansas is still south of the most northern part of Texas.

As I said before, they're in line. Both are 36°30'.

Right or wrong, that's what I read.  It had northing to do with the data, but the fact still remains that Arkansas is not further north than Texas.

You can pull up Google Earth, turn on Grid in the View menu (or Ctrl-L for those who'd rather avoid clicking menu options) and confirm quite easily that both northern borders are 36°30'.  Regardless of what someone may have written on the Internet.

I'd wager that Arkansas has a significantly larger population than Texas north of 34°, however.  Start dropping to 33°, and the DFW metro quickly overcomes little ole Arkansas' piddly population.

[GaryV]

You can pull up Google Earth, turn on Grid in the View menu (or Ctrl-L for those who'd rather avoid clicking menu options) and confirm quite easily that both northern borders are 36°30'. 

And that is not a coincidence. The Missouri Compromise defined that no new state north of 36°30' could be a slave state.

This resulted in the OK panhandle, aka Cimarron Strip. It had belonged to Texas, but had to be excluded so that Texas could have slavery. For several decades it was not part of any territory.

[Scott5114]

Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

[ethanhopkin14]

You can pull up Google Earth, turn on Grid in the View menu (or Ctrl-L for those who'd rather avoid clicking menu options) and confirm quite easily that both northern borders are 36°30'. 

And that is not a coincidence. The Missouri Compromise defined that no new state north of 36°30' could be a slave state.

This resulted in the OK panhandle, aka Cimarron Strip. It had belonged to Texas, but had to be excluded so that Texas could have slavery. For several decades it was not part of any territory.

Texas had to give up lands now in Oklahoma, Kansas Colorado New Mexico and Wyoming due to the Missouri Compromise.  Mostly because it wanted to be admitted as a slave state, but also because Texas was in sever debt at the time of annexation so selling that land to the US government helped pay some of the notes.  Yes, the US government had to buy land from Texas because Texas was the only state that was allowed to keep it's lands instead of them be in the public domain.  This is also because Texas had so much debt the US said, "I don't want your debt, but you get to keep your land as a good compromise".

True about the Oklahoma panhandle.  It was also called Beaver.  The Cimmaron Territory.  That's why culturally the panhandle is a bit detached from the rest of Oklahoma. 

The Missouri Compromise did say that no slave state can be north of 36°30' (Missouri's southern border excluding the bootheel), but that doesn't mean it could be further south than that.  For the record, when I read the post, I looked at my map I have on the wall and said, "that statement seems about true".  I didn't go to google maps and turn on the grid so I could nitpick the crap out of it.  I found it interesting because I, like most non-panhandle residing Texans, tend to forget about the panhandle and how far north it reaches.  That's it. 

[ethanhopkin14]

Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

I didn't really get it either, but realize the sentence was worded poorly, extrapolated the correct meaning (mainly being Arkansas feels further north than Texas, but it isn't), and then felt entertained by the fact.

[MikieTimT]

Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

I didn't really get it either, but realize the sentence was worded poorly, extrapolated the correct meaning (mainly being Arkansas feels further north than Texas, but it isn't), and then felt entertained by the fact.

It feels further north because of the population density of the panhandle of TX.  Other than Amarillo and Lubbock, if you count Lubbock as panhandle even, there isn't much in the way of city there.  Arkansas' western border is somewhat of a hot mess due to the fact that at the times the border was defined, it was an international border with Mexico creating the border with Texas and an "international" border with treaties with the Choctaw and Cherokee nations defining the two lines drawn "north" and "south" from Fort Smith.

[ethanhopkin14]

Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

I didn't really get it either, but realize the sentence was worded poorly, extrapolated the correct meaning (mainly being Arkansas feels further north than Texas, but it isn't), and then felt entertained by the fact.

It feels further north because of the population density of the panhandle of TX.  Other than Amarillo and Lubbock, if you count Lubbock as panhandle even, there isn't much in the way of city there.  Arkansas' western border is somewhat of a hot mess due to the fact that at the times the border was defined, it was an international border with Mexico creating the border with Texas and an "international" border with treaties with the Choctaw and Cherokee nations defining the two lines drawn "north" and "south" from Fort Smith.

It feels north because you actually travel north from Texarkana to get into Arkansas.  If you continue north on US-71/I-49, Texas is such a long afterthought you could swear it was a distant memory way down south of you, but the reality is, you can drive the entire length of Arkansas at that point and never be further north than the furthest north point of Texas. 

Which brings me to my next fun fact:

Roughly from about Mullberry, Arkansas on I-40 traveling west, you will drive through the rest of Arkansas, across Oklahoma, across Texas and halfway across New Mexico to the east side of Albuquerque while between the same points on I-10 you are just inside Texas. This is a rough eyeball on a map, please don't come at me with exact coordinates.  The concept still remains the same. 

[Rothman]

Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

I didn't really get it either, but realize the sentence was worded poorly, extrapolated the correct meaning (mainly being Arkansas feels further north than Texas, but it isn't), and then felt entertained by the fact.

It feels further north because of the population density of the panhandle of TX.  Other than Amarillo and Lubbock, if you count Lubbock as panhandle even, there isn't much in the way of city there.  Arkansas' western border is somewhat of a hot mess due to the fact that at the times the border was defined, it was an international border with Mexico creating the border with Texas and an "international" border with treaties with the Choctaw and Cherokee nations defining the two lines drawn "north" and "south" from Fort Smith.

It feels north because you actually travel north from Texarkana to get into Arkansas. 

Oh boy.

[KCRoadFan]

The western tip of Virginia is west of Toledo, Ohio, and not that far east of Dayton and Cincinnati.

The western tip of Michigan's Upper Peninsula is west of St. Louis, Memphis, and New Orleans.

[ethanhopkin14]

Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

I didn't really get it either, but realize the sentence was worded poorly, extrapolated the correct meaning (mainly being Arkansas feels further north than Texas, but it isn't), and then felt entertained by the fact.

It feels further north because of the population density of the panhandle of TX.  Other than Amarillo and Lubbock, if you count Lubbock as panhandle even, there isn't much in the way of city there.  Arkansas' western border is somewhat of a hot mess due to the fact that at the times the border was defined, it was an international border with Mexico creating the border with Texas and an "international" border with treaties with the Choctaw and Cherokee nations defining the two lines drawn "north" and "south" from Fort Smith.

It feels north because you actually travel north from Texarkana to get into Arkansas. 

Oh boy.

What is wrong with that statement?  Dive on US-59 to US 71 and you will cross (fully) into Arkansas north of Texarkana.  When I was a kid , my family would take that route several times leaving Marshall, TX to go to Mena, AR and we were heading north.  Yes I-30 crosses into Arkansas heading east-west.  I know that.  Not every person in the state of Texas is leaving from Dallas or on I-30.  There are other towns in Texas besides DFW and Houston. 

[ethanhopkin14]

The headwaters of the Mississippi River are at Lake Itasca in Minnesota.  About a 1/4 of a mile to a 1/2 mile north of there, the Mississippi River crosses under 210th Street through a culvert at its most western spot, which is about as far west as Katy, TX.  I don't find it particularly mind blowing, but interesting to think of it from a media standpoint since the Mississippi has been the traditional line of demarcation for W vs. K for the first letter in radio and television call letters.  I also find it humorous that the Mississippi River has a road crossing that's a culvert. 

[Rothman]

The headwaters of the Mississippi River are at Lake Itasca in Minnesota.  About a 1/4 of a mile to a 1/2 mile north of there, the Mississippi River crosses under 210th Street through a culvert at its most western spot, which is about as far west as Katy, TX.  I don't find it particularly mind blowing, but interesting to think of it from a media standpoint since the Mississippi has been the traditional line of demarcation for W vs. K for the first letter in radio and television call letters.  I also find it humorous that the Mississippi River has a road crossing that's a culvert.

Saw a TikTok of a guy who tried kayaking it all the way from the beginning to end.  There were areas in MN where it looked more like a swamp than river.

[Rothman]

And speaking of kayaking, I was dabbling with the idea of kayaking along the Mississippi around Kentucky Bend.  Couldn't be that far, right?

It's about 18 miles from one side of the land's narrowest point to the other.  At the generally considered kayak speed of 2 mph, that's a 9 hour trip (probably at the very most).

[kkt]

You can pull up Google Earth, turn on Grid in the View menu (or Ctrl-L for those who'd rather avoid clicking menu options) and confirm quite easily that both northern borders are 36°30'. 

And that is not a coincidence. The Missouri Compromise defined that no new state north of 36°30' could be a slave state.

This resulted in the OK panhandle, aka Cimarron Strip. It had belonged to Texas, but had to be excluded so that Texas could have slavery. For several decades it was not part of any territory.

Oh, thank you for this!  I knew about the Missouri Compromise line but I hadn't connected it to the Oklahoma panhandle before.

[Big John]

The headwaters of the Mississippi River are at Lake Itasca in Minnesota.  About a 1/4 of a mile to a 1/2 mile north of there, the Mississippi River crosses under 210th Street through a culvert at its most western spot, which is about as far west as Katy, TX.  I don't find it particularly mind blowing, but interesting to think of it from a media standpoint since the Mississippi has been the traditional line of demarcation for W vs. K for the first letter in radio and television call letters.  I also find it humorous that the Mississippi River has a road crossing that's a culvert. 

That is the current demarcation line.  The original demarcation line was the eastern borders of Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and New Mexico.

[Chris]

Indonesia east-to-west is the same distance as Canada coast-to-coast (to St. John's): 5,100 kilometers.

The island of Sumatra along its axis is only slightly shorter than from San Diego to Canada.

[Road Hog]

There is a small hunk of Kansas that exists east of the common land-based border between Missouri and Kansas. That border extends to the confluence of the Missouri and Kansas Rivers, from which point northward, the Missouri River forms the border.

Because the river follows a path above that confluence that bends farther east, a good bit of Wyandotte County lies to the east of that southern straight-line portion of the border. So is Kansas east of Arkansas?

[US 89]

Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

I didn't really get it either, but realize the sentence was worded poorly, extrapolated the correct meaning (mainly being Arkansas feels further north than Texas, but it isn't), and then felt entertained by the fact.

It feels further north because of the population density of the panhandle of TX.  Other than Amarillo and Lubbock, if you count Lubbock as panhandle even, there isn't much in the way of city there.  Arkansas' western border is somewhat of a hot mess due to the fact that at the times the border was defined, it was an international border with Mexico creating the border with Texas and an "international" border with treaties with the Choctaw and Cherokee nations defining the two lines drawn "north" and "south" from Fort Smith.

Plus the Choctaw line itself was the subject of a long history of disputes over how to define it and then where it actually was after a definition was finally settled on. The original surveyor was probably bribed or otherwise threatened into drawing a line to advantage white Arkansas settlers at the expense of the Choctaws, for which the Choctaws were compensated by the federal government over 40 years later.

[index]

Every Murfreesboro in the US is less than a 100-mile drive from a Nashville.

[Scott5114]

There is a small hunk of Kansas that exists east of the common land-based border between Missouri and Kansas. That border extends to the confluence of the Missouri and Kansas Rivers, from which point northward, the Missouri River forms the border.

Because the river follows a path above that confluence that bends farther east, a good bit of Wyandotte County lies to the east of that southern straight-line portion of the border. So is Kansas east of Arkansas?

The portion that you have in mind isn't really as big as your post implies it to be–it basically is the General Motors Fairfax Assembly Plant and that's it. So a big piece of land in on a human scale, but only a fraction of Wyandotte County's area (and an even smaller fraction of the state of Kansas).

[Road Hog]

Didn't intend to imply any size at all. I said "a small hunk of Kansas" and "a good bit of Wyandotte County," which is all relative.

[Poiponen13]

I found this out some days ago:


The northernmost point of New Zealand is further north than the southernmost point of South Africa, meaning that there is a part of New Zealand further north than a part of South Africa.

[hotdogPi]

I found this out some days ago:


The northernmost point of New Zealand is further north than the southernmost point of South Africa, meaning that there is a part of New Zealand further north than a part of South Africa.

Expected. I've always imagined them to be about equal in latitude.