New York State Thruway

[Rothman]

vdeane, are you working with the new "Drakewell" or however it's spelled/called?

[vdeane]

vdeane, are you working with the new "Drakewell" or however it's spelled/called?

I'm not familiar with it.  My bookmark is for the web viewer they came out with a few years ago; is that link out of date?

[webny99]

So, pursuant to this discussion, I did some Google searching and fairly extensive browsing on the Thruway's site to see if I could find anything for current AADT volumes. With no success, I decided FOIL was worth a shot, so I emailed them to request 2022 traffic count data for segments 39 (I-690) to 50 (I-290). I received a response back a week later, and what do you know? the table included in the reply cited "2022 Estimated AADT" and the source for each data point was NYSDOT TDS/TDV, just the same old data rebranded as an estimate.

Given that TDV is still using 2019 estimates and is missing huge chunks of the Thruway, that's probably still better than what's publicly available (incidentally, most counts in TDV are estimates because NYSDOT doesn't count every site every year; the aim is once every three years*, but it can go longer since we live in an imperfect world).

*Some sections of roads are on even longer cycles.  Most notably, ramps are every six years.  Low volume local roads that are only getting counted due to bridges or RR crossings also had longer cycles last I heard.

To be clear, the AADT's I received in response to my first FOIL request were the exact same counts currently in TDV (or in the 2019 TDR, for those missing from TDV). It wasn't any new data at all, just 2019 or older counts labeled as "2022 estimates".

This happened around the same time I'd started to dive into NYSDOT's continuous count data, which inspired my second inquiry about the gantries.

[Rothman]

vdeane, are you working with the new "Drakewell" or however it's spelled/called?

I'm not familiar with it.  My bookmark is for the web viewer they came out with a few years ago; is that link out of date?

Nope.  This "Drakewell" software seems to be the new and upcoming way HDS will be analyzing count and other traffic data...but the bugs are still being worked out.

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/ZpY3e1xKjsBFnFtFA
Is there a reason why the center jersey barrier divider is not used on Thruway underpasses or river bridges?

I noticed that the wall stops at the bridges and resumes on the other side. My guess is expansion issues of the bridge deck, but is that the reason?

[vdeane]

vdeane, are you working with the new "Drakewell" or however it's spelled/called?

I'm not familiar with it.  My bookmark is for the web viewer they came out with a few years ago; is that link out of date?

Nope.  This "Drakewell" software seems to be the new and upcoming way HDS will be analyzing count and other traffic data...but the bugs are still being worked out.

Ah, the TRADIS replacement.

[jmacswimmer]

Seneca looks ready to open.  The barriers around the parking area are gone and the tenants are moved in.

Incidentally, I was reading that the four service areas to close soon are all renovations rather than reconstructions.  That's interesting, given that Guilderland is still standing, and it's due to reopen on a fairly short timetable.  I could have sworn that they were only going to renovate four, not five, unless maybe Sloatsburg was to be a reconstruction but then they found that it only needed renovations.  Could explain why that one temporarily reopened after a week to little fanfare.

I think I saw the same article - if accurate, it'd be interesting that all 4 areas are in the same direction of travel, and that 3 of the 4 areas are relatively close together and would "alternate" with reconstructed areas throughout that stretch.

NYSTA's homepage updated this afternoon noting that Sloatsburg, Malden & Pattersonville are now closed - but not Ontario as of yet, likely because it is waiting for Seneca for reopen as you noted.

[SignBridge]

https://goo.gl/maps/ZpY3e1xKjsBFnFtFA
Is there a reason why the center jersey barrier divider is not used on Thruway underpasses or river bridges?

I noticed that the wall stops at the bridges and resumes on the other side. My guess is expansion issues of the bridge deck, but is that the reason?

Possibly a weight issue? The concrete wall may exceed the bridge's design load?

[Alps]

https://goo.gl/maps/ZpY3e1xKjsBFnFtFA
Is there a reason why the center jersey barrier divider is not used on Thruway underpasses or river bridges?

I noticed that the wall stops at the bridges and resumes on the other side. My guess is expansion issues of the bridge deck, but is that the reason?

Possibly a weight issue? The concrete wall may exceed the bridge's design load?

The one shown is an original bridge. The original median was guide rail. Adding concrete median barrier not only adds dead load, but because it is fixed and poured onto the bridge, it changes the reactions of the bridge under live loading and how the bridge wears over time. Once this one is replaced it'll get continuous barrier, I'm sure.

[Plutonic Panda]

I know social media usually has a lot of negativity but I mean these new rest stops seem to be universally hated by almost every comment I've read on them. Are they really that bad?

Lots of of complaints of small restrooms and little seating areas.

[Jim]

They're really that bad. At least the small ones on the CNY I-90 stretch I've been to.

[vdeane]

I know social media usually has a lot of negativity but I mean these new rest stops seem to be universally hated by almost every comment I've read on them. Are they really that bad?

Lots of of complaints of small restrooms and little seating areas.

The smaller ones (level 2 according to the size chart on the project page) that are all over I-90 are TINY.  The women's room only has six stalls, and that's split between two areas to boot.  Only one restaurant plus a Starbucks or Dunkin and the convenience store (one of them even has their one restaurant as Chick-fil-A, so that one doesn't have a restaurant at all on Sundays).  The only seating at these is one row along the wall, especially now that they had to remove the second row to provide a place to walk (apparently they didn't realize that food lines where something they'd need to accommodate until after they built these things).  And these are technically medium-sized for the Thruway; there are two even smaller ones (level 1 - one under construction, one yet to begin) that won't have a restaurant and might not have seating (not sure about the bathrooms).

The larger ones (levels 2A, 2B, 3, and 3B) aren't as bad.  These have normal-sized restrooms and a proper seating area, but they still feel smaller than the old service areas did.

[Roadgeek Adam]

I liked the Clarence one when I was in it.....I have no beef, or expectations. It's a service area, I'm not expecting to be given hors d'oeuvres and butler service. It's a place to park, use the restroom, get a snack.

[LilianaUwU]

I'm used to Québec's dreadful rest areas with barely anything, so in comparison the service areas on the Thruway seem godlike.

[SignBridge]

I'm old enough to remember when the Thruway service areas had Howard Johnsons style restaurants in the 1960's. They were run by other companies. I remember the one at Modena was a Hot Shoppes. The service areas on the Turnpikes in the adjacent states had similar facilities. Back then you would stop there for a sit-down lunch or dinner.

[kalvado]

I'm used to Québec's dreadful rest areas with barely anything, so in comparison the service areas on the Thruway seem godlike.

most interstates in US have rest areas with little more than a restroom and a vending machine.
Thruway had pretty luxurious arrangement - and now there is a noticeable cutback. Which is still much much better than, say I-88 running nearby - but we do remember how things worked 5-10 years ago. I hope there will be a Pilot or two coming soon by the Thruway, looks like  they created a market for them...

[SignBridge]

Virtually all the toll roads in the Northeast were originally designed for a very high level of customer service. This was in an era (1950's) where I guess you couldn't find many off highway services in rural areas. And the authorities that ran these roads wanted to encourage drivers to use these new roads and pay lots of toll revenue. It's a shame that the customer-service philosophy has been lost to some extent in the 21st Century.

[Roadgeek Adam]

My father drove from Ardsley to RIT in Henrietta for 4 years for college. He talks about the old style ones all the time. Things change in society. We shouldn't be basing our expectations on 1950s and 1960s designs of customer service. There are 70-something exits on the mainline Thruway if you want better service.

[SignBridge]

You are correct that things change and expectations change over time. But it seems to me that if the T'way Authority is going to continue to collect tolls, they should maintain a high level of customer service. But I guess it all depends on how we currently define a high level of service. Most of the posters on here seem to feel that the level of service is deteriorating with the current rebuilding of many of the Thruway service areas.

[Rothman]

I stopped at the last service plaza on the Indiana Toll Road today (eastbound). 

They closed the restrooms for cleaning...at noon.  The Popeye's had two people working -- a cook and a person at the register.

Toll roads are now all about maximizing profit and minimizing the service given.

[Alps]

My father drove from Ardsley to RIT in Henrietta for 4 years for college. He talks about the old style ones all the time. Things change in society. We shouldn't be basing our expectations on 1950s and 1960s designs of customer service. There are 70-something exits on the mainline Thruway if you want better service.

Toll roads then: the only high speed roads you'd find, much higher design standards, stop to pay the toll, friendly conversations as you go. Toll roads now - charges are automatic, other roads are freeways also, no one worth talking to.

[kalvado]

My father drove from Ardsley to RIT in Henrietta for 4 years for college. He talks about the old style ones all the time. Things change in society. We shouldn't be basing our expectations on 1950s and 1960s designs of customer service. There are 70-something exits on the mainline Thruway if you want better service.

Think about it in such a way: a lot of service providers ended up near regular highway exits to take advantage of that traffic. Nothing like that happened along Thruway as service plazas are very competitive in terms of convenience. There are no off-Thruway facilities to handle that traffic by the exit, and finding something may end up pretty time consuming. No automatic assumption for a gas station or two and something like a McD right next to the exit.
Of course, that will change eventually.... AET makes things easier as well.  I wonder if Thruway would be willing to post services signs, those may help...

[Rothman]

My father drove from Ardsley to RIT in Henrietta for 4 years for college. He talks about the old style ones all the time. Things change in society. We shouldn't be basing our expectations on 1950s and 1960s designs of customer service. There are 70-something exits on the mainline Thruway if you want better service.

Think about it in such a way: a lot of service providers ended up near regular highway exits to take advantage of that traffic. Nothing like that happened along Thruway as service plazas are very competitive in terms of convenience. There are no off-Thruway facilities to handle that traffic by the exit, and finding something may end up pretty time consuming. No automatic assumption for a gas station or two and something like a McD right next to the exit.
Of course, that will change eventually.... AET makes things easier as well.  I wonder if Thruway would be willing to post services signs, those may help...

Wonder if that would violate agreements made with the service plaza vendors...

[kalvado]

My father drove from Ardsley to RIT in Henrietta for 4 years for college. He talks about the old style ones all the time. Things change in society. We shouldn't be basing our expectations on 1950s and 1960s designs of customer service. There are 70-something exits on the mainline Thruway if you want better service.

Think about it in such a way: a lot of service providers ended up near regular highway exits to take advantage of that traffic. Nothing like that happened along Thruway as service plazas are very competitive in terms of convenience. There are no off-Thruway facilities to handle that traffic by the exit, and finding something may end up pretty time consuming. No automatic assumption for a gas station or two and something like a McD right next to the exit.
Of course, that will change eventually.... AET makes things easier as well.  I wonder if Thruway would be willing to post services signs, those may help...

Wonder if that would violate agreements made with the service plaza vendors...

Posting signs? Likely yes. Construction of alternative services? NYSTA has limited jurisdiction.
As a matter of fact, there are Pilots in Batavia and in Duanesburg. Ads on high elevation points way outside of ROW seem a fair game as well

[Roadgeek Adam]

Thruway Authority is gonna collect tolls no matter what level of service. I accept that. All I ask is the roads be maintained with them. I take the Thruway east often from exit 49. I more commonly use off exit facilities such as the Flying J at 48A or the Fastrac at 40.