AARoads Forum

According to the TollRoadsNews blog, the "go live" date for AET on the MassPike has been postponed from October 2016 to "the end of the year."

MassDOT also acknowledged that they did not effectively communicate to the public the fact that Tobin Bridge tolls will soon be collected in both directions, at half the existing rate for inbound traffic only.  ISTR a similar plan for the Sumner/Callahan and Ted Williams tunnels exists as well.

Quote from: SidS1045 on June 13, 2016, 11:42:47 AM
According to the TollRoadsNews blog, the "go live" date for AET on the MassPike has been postponed from October 2016 to "the end of the year."

MassDOT also acknowledged that they did not effectively communicate to the public the fact that Tobin Bridge tolls will soon be collected in both directions, at half the existing rate for inbound traffic only.  ISTR a similar plan for the Sumner/Callahan and Ted Williams tunnels exists as well.

I heard mention of that a couple of years ago, and then nothing until very recently. So I would agree with MassDOT on that one.

Another MassDOT initiative, another postponement. The theme of 2016 it appears. Three major initiatives this year (travel time signs, mileage based exit numbers, and AET tolling), only travel time signs actually are happening this year it appears.

Your excise taxes at work.

Quote from: AMLNet49 on June 13, 2016, 12:18:05 PM
Another MassDOT initiative, another postponement. The theme of 2016 it appears. Three major initiatives this year (travel time signs, mileage based exit numbers, and AET tolling), only travel time signs actually are happening this year it appears.

Is two months really that big a deal?  It's the second implementation of this technology in the state, and the first on a large scale.  I would much prefer that they take two more months and get it right than half-ass their way to meeting an arbitrary deadline.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 13, 2016, 03:25:41 PM

Quote from: AMLNet49 on June 13, 2016, 12:18:05 PM
Another MassDOT initiative, another postponement. The theme of 2016 it appears. Three major initiatives this year (travel time signs, mileage based exit numbers, and AET tolling), only travel time signs actually are happening this year it appears.

Is two months really that big a deal?  It's the second implementation of this technology in the state, and the first on a large scale.  I would much prefer that they take two more months and get it right than half-ass their way to meeting an arbitrary deadline.

Third (flashing yellow arrows).

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 13, 2016, 03:25:41 PM

Quote from: AMLNet49 on June 13, 2016, 12:18:05 PM
Another MassDOT initiative, another postponement. The theme of 2016 it appears. Three major initiatives this year (travel time signs, mileage based exit numbers, and AET tolling), only travel time signs actually are happening this year it appears.

Is two months really that big a deal?  It's the second implementation of this technology in the state, and the first on a large scale.  I would much prefer that they take two more months and get it right than half-ass their way to meeting an arbitrary deadline.

The only big deal I see is that none of this is first-in-the-country ideas.  Sounds like too-aggressive scheduling more than anything.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 13, 2016, 03:49:48 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 13, 2016, 03:25:41 PM

Quote from: AMLNet49 on June 13, 2016, 12:18:05 PM
Another MassDOT initiative, another postponement. The theme of 2016 it appears. Three major initiatives this year (travel time signs, mileage based exit numbers, and AET tolling), only travel time signs actually are happening this year it appears.

Is two months really that big a deal?  It's the second implementation of this technology in the state, and the first on a large scale.  I would much prefer that they take two more months and get it right than half-ass their way to meeting an arbitrary deadline.

The only big deal I see is that none of this is first-in-the-country ideas.  Sounds like too-aggressive scheduling more than anything.

I agree. Granted, I'd rather they get it right than have issues once it goes live.

Quote from: 1 on June 13, 2016, 03:29:35 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 13, 2016, 03:25:41 PM

Quote from: AMLNet49 on June 13, 2016, 12:18:05 PM
Another MassDOT initiative, another postponement. The theme of 2016 it appears. Three major initiatives this year (travel time signs, mileage based exit numbers, and AET tolling), only travel time signs actually are happening this year it appears.

Is two months really that big a deal?  It's the second implementation of this technology in the state, and the first on a large scale.  I would much prefer that they take two more months and get it right than half-ass their way to meeting an arbitrary deadline.

Third (flashing yellow arrows).

Flashing yellow arrows involve all-electronic tolling?

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 13, 2016, 11:21:05 PM

Quote from: 1 on June 13, 2016, 03:29:35 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 13, 2016, 03:25:41 PM

Quote from: AMLNet49 on June 13, 2016, 12:18:05 PM
Another MassDOT initiative, another postponement. The theme of 2016 it appears. Three major initiatives this year (travel time signs, mileage based exit numbers, and AET tolling), only travel time signs actually are happening this year it appears.

Is two months really that big a deal?  It's the second implementation of this technology in the state, and the first on a large scale.  I would much prefer that they take two more months and get it right than half-ass their way to meeting an arbitrary deadline.

Third (flashing yellow arrows).

Flashing yellow arrows involve all-electronic tolling?

I was puzzled by that too.

Quote from: spooky on June 14, 2016, 08:23:00 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 13, 2016, 11:21:05 PM

Quote from: 1 on June 13, 2016, 03:29:35 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 13, 2016, 03:25:41 PM

Quote from: AMLNet49 on June 13, 2016, 12:18:05 PM
Another MassDOT initiative, another postponement. The theme of 2016 it appears. Three major initiatives this year (travel time signs, mileage based exit numbers, and AET tolling), only travel time signs actually are happening this year it appears.

Is two months really that big a deal?  It's the second implementation of this technology in the state, and the first on a large scale.  I would much prefer that they take two more months and get it right than half-ass their way to meeting an arbitrary deadline.

Third (flashing yellow arrows).

Flashing yellow arrows involve all-electronic tolling?

I was puzzled by that too.

I missed the word "this", and thought it was referring to any road-related technology.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 13, 2016, 03:49:48 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 13, 2016, 03:25:41 PM

Quote from: AMLNet49 on June 13, 2016, 12:18:05 PM
Another MassDOT initiative, another postponement. The theme of 2016 it appears. Three major initiatives this year (travel time signs, mileage based exit numbers, and AET tolling), only travel time signs actually are happening this year it appears.

Is two months really that big a deal?  It's the second implementation of this technology in the state, and the first on a large scale.  I would much prefer that they take two more months and get it right than half-ass their way to meeting an arbitrary deadline.

The only big deal I see is that none of this is first-in-the-country ideas.  Sounds like too-aggressive scheduling more than anything.

And implementation may be later than the end of the year, based on comments the MassDOT secretary made Sunday (see link under this post: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16734.msg2151333#msg2151333 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16734.msg2151333#msg2151333)),

indicating winter weather may postpone the implementation until the spring.

Related to the installation of AET is the demolition and re-working of the Mass Pike interchanges. As part of an upcoming public hearing to discuss the plans to change the I-95/128 interchanges 14 and 15, MassDOT posted a handout they will distribute at the meeting on 6/22. Here's the likely design for the re-worked interchange:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fexit1415aftertolls.jpg&hash=ff7aedfc49a906b86e4ff2bd588247beb3b809bd)

It shows the creation of two separate ramps westbound for I-95 and MA 30, as indicated in the I-90 sign replacement project plans (Ramp K) I posted a few months ago.

The handout is available at:
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/8/docs/hearings/ho_weston062216.pdf (http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/8/docs/hearings/ho_weston062216.pdf)

Quote from: bob7374 on June 16, 2016, 11:09:45 AMHere's the likely design for the re-worked interchange:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fexit1415aftertolls.jpg&hash=ff7aedfc49a906b86e4ff2bd588247beb3b809bd)

It shows the creation of two separate ramps westbound for I-95 and MA 30, as indicated in the I-90 sign replacement project plans (Ramp K) I posted a few months ago.

I'm hoping that the depicted 4-through lanes on the mainline/through I-90 aren't accurate; such should be 6 lanes.

More news regarding AET. This MassDOT blog entry indicates all turnpike gantries are up, the only ones remaining to construct are those at the Boston side of the harbor tunnels for future 2-way tolling. http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/all-electronic-tolling-installation-continues/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/all-electronic-tolling-installation-continues/)

Quote from: PHLBOS on June 16, 2016, 12:47:16 PMI'm hoping that the depicted 4-through lanes on the mainline/through I-90 aren't accurate; such should be 6 lanes.

Traffic volumes? That would decide which way it should be.

Quote from: Alps on June 16, 2016, 11:50:23 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on June 16, 2016, 12:47:16 PMI'm hoping that the depicted 4-through lanes on the mainline/through I-90 aren't accurate; such should be 6 lanes.

Traffic volumes? That would decide which way it should be.

MassDOT's TDM system is showing AADTs upwards of 60K and that was back in 2010. I don't need to see PHVs to know that 6 lanes should be provided.

Thank god they are going to eliminate that horrible tight weaving on the ramps heading towards 95/128.

Quote from: cl94 on June 16, 2016, 11:57:06 PM

Quote from: Alps on June 16, 2016, 11:50:23 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on June 16, 2016, 12:47:16 PMI'm hoping that the depicted 4-through lanes on the mainline/through I-90 aren't accurate; such should be 6 lanes.

Traffic volumes? That would decide which way it should be.

MassDOT's TDM system is showing AADTs upwards of 60K and that was back in 2010. I don't need to see PHVs to know that 6 lanes should be provided.

Not to mention the fact that presently, I-90 on both ends of the existing mainline toll plaza is at least 6 lanes wide (excluding the toll plaza bulge).

I agree. Taking time to do it right would make sense in the long run. That way they don't have a half-assed system that has toll collection errors.

Quote from: PHLBOS on June 17, 2016, 08:13:11 AM

Quote from: cl94 on June 16, 2016, 11:57:06 PM

Quote from: Alps on June 16, 2016, 11:50:23 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on June 16, 2016, 12:47:16 PMI'm hoping that the depicted 4-through lanes on the mainline/through I-90 aren't accurate; such should be 6 lanes.

Traffic volumes? That would decide which way it should be.

MassDOT's TDM system is showing AADTs upwards of 60K and that was back in 2010. I don't need to see PHVs to know that 6 lanes should be provided.

Not to mention the fact that presently, I-90 on both ends of the existing mainline toll plaza is at least 6 lanes wide (excluding the toll plaza bulge).

The way they've striped it is that the third lane comes in as the ramp from 95 north/south. It's at the edge of the image, but it is there as the third lane. If you had it as three lanes of through traffic, you'd have to do a merge instead since the eastbound carriageway doesn't get a fourth lane for miles, and there isn't room to widen the mainline there over the bridge that carries the turnpike over 95 and the Charles. There is no room to add a merge without reconstructing the bridge to add more width.

For I-90 westbound, the third lane turns into an Exit Only lane (look at the striping) to head for 95 after the Forest Drive off-ramp. This leaves two lanes for the mainline, and since there will be two lanes coming from I-95 from the former westboudn toll barrier, those two lanes will need to merge into the mainline's two lanes and eventually go down to three lanes for the westbound carriageway.

The TL:DR is that this lane configuration is the best they can do given the ramp and bridge geometry. Keep in mind that a lot of that AADT is heading for 95 North and South, not just through traffic on the turnpike as well, and this design balances the needs of that traffic along with that of mainline through traffic.

Gantry installation at harbor tunnels to begin:  http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/new-tunnels-gantry-infrastructure-to-be-installed/

Quote from: roadman on June 23, 2016, 09:53:27 AM
Gantry installation at harbor tunnels to begin:  http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/new-tunnels-gantry-infrastructure-to-be-installed/

Note that the blog piece says, if the AET testing goes as expected, the electronic tolling will begin in October, back to where MassDOT said it would start when first announced. Is this correct, or did the writer not get the message from last week that it would be pushed back to the end of the year?

Quote from: PHLBOS on June 17, 2016, 08:13:11 AMNot to mention the fact that presently, I-90 on both ends of the existing mainline toll plaza is at least 6 lanes wide (excluding the toll plaza bulge).

About a quarter-mile west of the toll plaza on the westbound side there is a lane drop (three lanes -> two lanes) a few hundred feet before the two lanes coming from I-95 join the two on the Pike.  I'd have to guess that lane drop will be converted to the ramp to I-95 under the plan posted by bob7374.

Quote from: bob7374 on June 23, 2016, 10:50:27 AM

Quote from: roadman on June 23, 2016, 09:53:27 AM
Gantry installation at harbor tunnels to begin:  http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/new-tunnels-gantry-infrastructure-to-be-installed/

Note that the blog piece says, if the AET testing goes as expected, the electronic tolling will begin in October, back to where MassDOT said it would start when first announced. Is this correct, or did the writer not get the message from last week that it would be pushed back to the end of the year?

In response to the question I posted about what date is right on the MassDOT FB page, the October date is correct. Apparently the Secretary and Toll Road News got some wrong information (or it was right last week but wrong now).

Article about toll plaza demolition plans:

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/08/mass_turnpike_electronic_tolli_1.html

Gives an outline of the process, along with a lot of generalizations about the overall changes.

In other MassPike news, MassDOT has hired a 'Tollpayer Advocate' to help with the transition to AET (they still plan an October start of AET if the software tests correctly):
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-announces-appointment-of-leonard-fournier-as-tollpayer-advocate/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-announces-appointment-of-leonard-fournier-as-tollpayer-advocate/)

MassDOT announces proposed AET toll rates this morning. AET goes live on October 28. Will hold public hearings in September.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/08/22/transportation-officials-electronic-toll-collection-will-begin-pike-oct/9Txk8T2ijt0HzNxFuaQnuO/story.html?p1=Article_Trending_Most_Viewed (http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/08/22/transportation-officials-electronic-toll-collection-will-begin-pike-oct/9Txk8T2ijt0HzNxFuaQnuO/story.html?p1=Article_Trending_Most_Viewed)

Looking at the toll schedule (note the two E-ZPass rates for the Weston gantry are reversed); here's a sample comparision for a Mass Pike trip I normally do on holiday weekends.

Exit 9 (I-84) to Exit 14 (I-95/Rte. 128):

Current toll $1.75

AET E-ZPass (MA):$1.75
AET E-ZPass (Other):$2.10
Toll-By-Plate:$3.45

Upshoot: There will now be E-ZPass-type discrimination, tolls for out-of-state E-ZPass users will go up a tad AND Non-E-ZPass users WILL get financially hosed.

This was something that my older brother warned me about; the implementation of AET being used as an excuse to hike the tolls.

Quote from: bob7374 on August 22, 2016, 11:48:11 AM
In other MassPike news, MassDOT has hired a 'Tollpayer Advocate' to help with the transition to AET (they still plan an October start of AET if the software tests correctly):
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-announces-appointment-of-leonard-fournier-as-tollpayer-advocate/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-announces-appointment-of-leonard-fournier-as-tollpayer-advocate/)

It was disclosed separately that this individual was appointed four months earlier, and is a donor in the amount of $1125 to the Baker election fund.

There also seems to be no contact info through which the public may funnel their concerns through him. Perhaps the idea is that because he uses his E-ZPass 10 to 15 times per month, he is already aware of toll payers' needs.

Boo on the transponder discrimination.  Didn't someone say in another thread that E-ZPass regulations banned transponder discrimination and that the places that do were merely grandfathered in?  How are they getting away with this?  Transponder discrimination should be ILLEGAL.

Plus who wants to have 10 lines in their E-ZPass statement where there's only one now?  IMO they should have just done a virtual "ticket" system and kept the existing tolls.

Here's the official MassDOT blog entry regarding the proposed AET toll rates, toll plaza demolition, and public hearings regarding tolls:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-moves-forward-on-all-electronic-tolling/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-moves-forward-on-all-electronic-tolling/)

While I don't like the transponder discrimination, the penalty is pretty minimal compared to other agencies.

It's exploitive of the reality that the Northeast has many small jurisdictions. Unless there's a demonstrable equivalent cost associated with out-of-state transactions, this should be eliminated.  Not only does it penalize use of a technology whose adoption is collectively beneficial, it ignores the reality of commerce in 2016 where untold instantaneous electronic transactions happen constantly without arbitrary 20% fees.

One comparison of proposed AET tolls with the present system:

http://m.wcvb.com/blob/view/-/41317668/data/1/-/1447emtz/-/Comparison-of-Mass-Pike-tolls.pdf

Quote from: SidS1045 on August 22, 2016, 09:45:16 PM

I know that you only posted the information but some of those listed gantry rates appear different from the earlier-posted MassDOT listings.

The former (see Reply #27) for a Sturbridge to Weston trip indicated no toll increase for an MA E-ZPass user; assuming the listed Weston rates for the 2 E-ZPass users were mistakenly transposed.

Either way, this could turn into a PR nightmare for MassDOT (like they really need another one) because they have been touting that this AET conversion would be revenue neutral for most users since such was first proposed.

While a higher Toll-By-Plate rate was to be expected; if the rate is pushed too high, there will be a blowback from motorists.  Sections of US 20 could see an increase of traffic as a result as well if more people shunpike.

Although such has been around, in one shape or form, for about 2 decades; contrary to popular belief, not everybody has signed up for one.  Those that don't use toll facilities that often or at all typically don't have E-ZPass accounts.  To many, such is just another thing to carry; plus, many agencies (Mass IIRC used to back in its Fast-Lane days) charge an annual fee (up to $12/year) to carry an E-ZPass account.  One has to do the math to determine if their discounted tolls (if any) will offset the annual fee.   In the old days, when the E-ZPass vs. cash toll rates didn't vary as much; the annual fee was indeed the decision-maker (or deal-breaker) for whether or not to get an E-ZPass account.

However, I am told that MassDOT now does not charge an annual fee for E-ZPass accounts so that might be more of an incentive to get an MA E-ZPass account.

Even so, if those are indeed the rates, it might be enough to push me over to VT/NH 9 and NH 101 for trips east. Looking at the big picture, the rate hike is insane for out-of-state and cash users.

Quote from: PHLBOS on August 23, 2016, 10:38:43 AM

Although such has been around, in one shape or form, for about 2 decades; contrary to popular belief, not everybody has signed up for one.  Those that don't use toll facilities that often or at all typically don't have E-ZPass accounts.  To many, such is just another thing to carry; plus, many agencies (Mass IIRC used to back in its Fast-Lane days) charge an annual fee (up to $12/year) to carry an E-ZPass account.  One has to do the math to determine if their discounted tolls (if any) will offset the annual fee.   In the old days, when the E-ZPass vs. cash toll rates didn't vary as much; the annual fee was indeed the decision-maker (or deal-breaker) for whether or not to get an E-ZPass account.

However, I am told that MassDOT now does not charge an annual fee for E-ZPass accounts so that might be more of an incentive to get an MA E-ZPass account.

I lived in MA when I first got an E-Z Pass account, and they didn't charge an annual fee, ever.  My first E-Z Pass tag, in fact, said "Bank of Boston Fast Lane."  When I moved to VA and then MD, I never switched to those state's E-Z Pass systems simply because they charged an annual fee and I didn't use toll facilities that much anyway.  The discount on the Mass Pike and Logan tunnels were no longer of use to me, but to me, the monthly fee didn't offset the $1 or $2 extra on the $8 I-95 bridge the one or two times a year I used it.  In fact, I only closed my MA Fast Lane account, switching it to a Maryland E-Z Pass, last July when Gov. Hogan got rid of the monthly fee.  If I'm going to get a toll discount, I may as well get it on the $8 bridge the one or two times a year I use it, rather than on the Mass Pike the 0 times I year I use that now that I don't live in Mass anymore.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on August 22, 2016, 09:17:09 PM
It's exploitive of the reality that the Northeast has many small jurisdictions. Unless there's a demonstrable equivalent cost associated with out-of-state transactions, this should be eliminated.  Not only does it penalize use of a technology whose adoption is collectively beneficial, it ignores the reality of commerce in 2016 where untold instantaneous electronic transactions happen constantly without arbitrary 20% fees.

My understanding was that transponder discrimination was ruled legal on the grounds that anybody can get an E-Z Pass from any state regardless of the state of residence, and you could conceivably carry a bunch of different transponders in your car.  Realistically, though, no one is going to do that, and E-Z Pass websites even ask your state and direct you to that state.

Quote from: tckma on August 23, 2016, 03:07:23 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on August 22, 2016, 09:17:09 PM
It's exploitive of the reality that the Northeast has many small jurisdictions. Unless there's a demonstrable equivalent cost associated with out-of-state transactions, this should be eliminated.  Not only does it penalize use of a technology whose adoption is collectively beneficial, it ignores the reality of commerce in 2016 where untold instantaneous electronic transactions happen constantly without arbitrary 20% fees.

My understanding was that transponder discrimination was ruled legal on the grounds that anybody can get an E-Z Pass from any state regardless of the state of residence, and you could conceivably carry a bunch of different transponders in your car.  Realistically, though, no one is going to do that, and E-Z Pass websites even ask your state and direct you to that state.

Or you have something like New York, who will issue a NY E-ZPass to someone out of state, but will send them a Port Authority one with a service fee unless they buy one from NYSTA or the MTA in person. Normally, downstate gets MTA and Upstate/Ontario gets NYSTA, Ontario because the Niagara Falls bridges issue NYSTA ones.

Mass, as far as I know, never charged an annual fee. However, you did have to shell out for the transponder (which was something like ten dollars). You spent $20, which covered the cost of the transponder and opened up your account for a $10 balance. I'm still running on my 2004-era transponder that I paid ten dollars for.

Nowadays, transponders from MassDOT are free. IMO the rate between in-state and out-of-state transponders is fair, but those pay-by-plate rates are stiff, especially for the state line to Boston rate. Most people might not squawk about paying an extra dollar for going from 84 to 128, but people in Western Mass who don't have transponders WILL be griping about this.

QuoteBeginning after Labor Day, MassDOT is planning to hold seven public hearings about AET. Comments made during these public meetings, or submitted in writing, will help inform deliberations by the MassDOT Board, which plans to vote on the new AET charges in October

Better get to those public hearings...

Quote from: kefkafloyd on August 23, 2016, 04:03:16 PM
Mass, as far as I know, never charged an annual fee. However, you did have to shell out for the transponder (which was something like ten dollars). You spent $20, which covered the cost of the transponder and opened up your account for a $10 balance. I'm still running on my 2004-era transponder.

Nowadays, transponders from MassDOT are free. IMO the rate between in-state and out-of-state transponders is fair, but those pay-by-plate rates are stiff, especially for the state line to Boston rate. Most people might not squawk about paying an extra dollar for going from 84 to 128, but people in Western Mass who don't have transponders WILL be griping about this.

QuoteBeginning after Labor Day, MassDOT is planning to hold seven public hearings about AET. Comments made during these public meetings, or submitted in writing, will help inform deliberations by the MassDOT Board, which plans to vote on the new AET charges in October

Better get to those public hearings...

If they have one in Springfield or west and it's not on a Monday/Thursday night, I could probably get to one and report back

Quote from: cl94 on August 23, 2016, 04:05:21 PM

Quote from: kefkafloyd on August 23, 2016, 04:03:16 PM
Mass, as far as I know, never charged an annual fee. However, you did have to shell out for the transponder (which was something like ten dollars). You spent $20, which covered the cost of the transponder and opened up your account for a $10 balance. I'm still running on my 2004-era transponder.

Nowadays, transponders from MassDOT are free. IMO the rate between in-state and out-of-state transponders is fair, but those pay-by-plate rates are stiff, especially for the state line to Boston rate. Most people might not squawk about paying an extra dollar for going from 84 to 128, but people in Western Mass who don't have transponders WILL be griping about this.

QuoteBeginning after Labor Day, MassDOT is planning to hold seven public hearings about AET. Comments made during these public meetings, or submitted in writing, will help inform deliberations by the MassDOT Board, which plans to vote on the new AET charges in October

Better get to those public hearings...

If they have one in Springfield or west and it's not on a Monday/Thursday night, I could probably get to one and report back

Meeting in Springfield on Wed. Sept. 14. Rest of the public meeting dates are here:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/all-electronic-tolling-fare-structure-public-meetings-set/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/all-electronic-tolling-fare-structure-public-meetings-set/)

Quote from: bob7374 on August 23, 2016, 06:28:05 PM

Quote from: cl94 on August 23, 2016, 04:05:21 PM

Quote from: kefkafloyd on August 23, 2016, 04:03:16 PM
Mass, as far as I know, never charged an annual fee. However, you did have to shell out for the transponder (which was something like ten dollars). You spent $20, which covered the cost of the transponder and opened up your account for a $10 balance. I'm still running on my 2004-era transponder.

Nowadays, transponders from MassDOT are free. IMO the rate between in-state and out-of-state transponders is fair, but those pay-by-plate rates are stiff, especially for the state line to Boston rate. Most people might not squawk about paying an extra dollar for going from 84 to 128, but people in Western Mass who don't have transponders WILL be griping about this.

QuoteBeginning after Labor Day, MassDOT is planning to hold seven public hearings about AET. Comments made during these public meetings, or submitted in writing, will help inform deliberations by the MassDOT Board, which plans to vote on the new AET charges in October

Better get to those public hearings...

If they have one in Springfield or west and it's not on a Monday/Thursday night, I could probably get to one and report back

Meeting in Springfield on Wed. Sept. 14. Rest of the public meeting dates are here:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/all-electronic-tolling-fare-structure-public-meetings-set/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/all-electronic-tolling-fare-structure-public-meetings-set/)

Perfect. I have Wednesdays off. First class on Thursday isn't until 10, so I expect to be there. I'll provide a summary on this thread later that evening or the next day.

Also, with regards to the potential take rate on pay-by-plate, MassDOT has 75% EZPass transactions on the Turnpike west of Weston, and 81% east of Weston, with 75% on harbor crossings. While I don't know how that compares to similar jurisdictions (I would love to know NH and NY's EZPass usage rates), that's still a pretty good percentage of toll transactions. (see: http://www.massdotinnovation.com/Pdfs/Session1D-AllElectronicTolling.pdf )

Given that, the statement of revenue neutral for most users is pretty much true, as the vast majority of turnpike/toll payers are using EZPass.

The real question is how much leakage the turnpike will get from people who won't pay their tolls from pay-by-plate. There's ways to discourage that for in-state registrations (refuse license/registration renewals for people with outstanding toll bills) but out of state is basically playing roulette. I'm guessing the state is banking on the fact that eliminating toll booths and simplifying interchanges will outweigh the lost revenue (as well as the rate hike for PBP).

I will be curious to see how many current cash users will switch to EZPass. Cash users fall either into rare/occasional pike users or those who have ideological objections to EZPass. Not much can be done about the latter, except maybe their concerns about their wallets will finally overcome those objections. The occasional users out west will be loud and I'm guessing that PBP toll rate will be reduced before go-live. No way will people accept the nearly doubling of a toll for a non-EZPass user who goes from Stockbridge to Boston.

NYSTA gets that south of Newburgh, as do the TBTA crossings. NYSTA gets ~50% in the Buffalo area.

What I'd like to know here is the percentage of E-ZPass users from out of state. As the NY discount is huge compared to the current discount in just about any state other than Maine, most people in CT with E-ZPass as well as many in western Massachusetts have one from NYSTA or the MTA. A lot of the traffic past Worcester is out-of-state and, if these rates go through, a lot of them will bleed off to I-84, US 6, MA 2, US 20 and/or VT/NH 9. I know I'd seriously consider dealing with 2, 9, or 20 if I'm not in a rush.

I read somewhere that something like 90% of EZP transactions on MTA facilities are with in-state transponders, 8% NJ, and 2% all other states. Since the MTA bridges aren't on long haul interstate routes, and since many users from out of state are NYC/LI expats with NY accounts or visitors that got NY accounts in the 1990s when it was the only place to get one, that breakdown makes sense.

Keep in mind that MTA is the only NYS agency that discriminates.

The MassPike toll rates are fair, IMO, even if I'm not a fan of transponder discrimination. Leakage from out of state users is a problem if the person doesn't mind having their credit report jacked up with collection agency notes. Otherwise they can only suspend issuance of new registrations in MA, and NH/ME by reciprocal agreement.

I don't have a problem with every gantry pass showing up on my statement if it means they can post immediately. On facilities that combine multiple gantry passes into a "trip", the process takes too long, because they have to wait for all the non-reads to have the images processed, just in case your tag didn't read at one gantry. That usually results in a 5-10 dag delay in posting the trip. It's a major issue on the ICC and Virginia's express lanes.

Quote from: cl94 on August 23, 2016, 09:00:08 PM
NYSTA gets that south of Newburgh, as do the TBTA crossings. NYSTA gets ~50% in the Buffalo area.

What I'd like to know here is the percentage of E-ZPass users from out of state. As the NY discount is huge compared to the current discount in just about any state other than Maine, most people in CT with E-ZPass as well as many in western Massachusetts have one from NYSTA or the MTA. A lot of the traffic past Worcester is out-of-state and, if these rates go through, a lot of them will bleed off to I-84, US 6, MA 2, US 20 and/or VT/NH 9. I know I'd seriously consider dealing with 2, 9, or 20 if I'm not in a rush.

I doubt the level of shunpiking for non-enthusiasts will be that high. Unfortunately there's no real way to track out-of-state cash transactions at the moment unless they get a violation at an EZPass booth. I'm sure they've done tracking studies where they could get a statistical sample, but I cannot find any of those statistics. That could be something to ask about at the public meetings. But is someone who isn't an enthusiast going from Springfield really going to drive all the way through Route 20 to Boston to avoid a toll? Maybe if they don't value their time. The only real viable alternative route is route 2 and people who live in the northern part of the state (or have destinations north of 495) are already using it.

I'm betting the vast majority of out of state transactions happens on the 84-Boston area segment. The amount of traffic that goes through that dwarfs the mainline even east of Springfield.

Quote from: kefkafloyd on August 24, 2016, 08:33:30 AMBut is someone who isn't an enthusiast going from Springfield really going to drive all the way through Route 20 to Boston to avoid a toll? Maybe if they don't value their time. The only real viable alternative route is route 2 and people who live in the northern part of the state (or have destinations north of 495) are already using it.

While they won't use US 20 all the way through to Boston (or to I-95 in Waltham) unless word gets out about a horrific accident along the Pike (which can happen regardless of AET); they will likely use 20 up to either I-290/395 or MA 146 near the Blackstone Mall.

Quote from: kefkafloyd on August 24, 2016, 08:33:30 AM
I'm betting the vast majority of out of state transactions happens on the 84-Boston area segment. The amount of traffic that goes through that dwarfs the mainline even east of Springfield.

My guess would be that the highest concentration of out-of-state transactions happen between I-84 (Sturbridge) & I-290/395 (Auburn); which is one reason why that 12-mile stretch of the Pike tends to be a bottleneck at the toll plazas.  AET will (hopefully) reduce or eliminate that bottleneck.

Quote from: PHLBOS on August 24, 2016, 08:58:12 AMWhile they won't use US 20 all the way through to Boston (or to I-95 in Waltham) unless word gets out about a horrific accident along the Pike (which can happen regardless of AET); they will likely use 20 up to either I-290/395 or MA 146 near the Blackstone Mall.

Yes, I have done this before, and sometimes to avoid holiday traffic on that segment of the turnpike.

Quote from: PHLBOS on August 24, 2016, 08:58:12 AMMy guess would be that the highest concentration of out-of-state transactions happen between I-84 (Sturbridge) & I-290/395 (Auburn); which is one reason why that 12-mile stretch of the Pike tends to be a bottleneck at the toll plazas.  AET will (hopefully) reduce or eliminate that bottleneck.

Yes, this segment will improve considerably with AET. It won't completely eliminate slowdowns, but removal of tollbooths at exit 9 will help considerably since its geometry is pretty good and won't need much improvements to run at higher speed.

Exit 10 will be more difficult. While eliminating the tollbooths will help, the narrow and curvy ramps for both MA 12 and the interstates there will be a problem. I will be interested in seeing what MassDOT will propose for a reconfigured interchange. There's no room without considerable land takings and environmental impact. I'm pretty sure they'll punt on it.

495/90 is at least getting a look at complete reconstruction, as is the Allston/Brighton section (for a variety of reasons). The Weston 128/30/90 interchange's proposed reconstruction diagrams posted in the other thread looks sensible with what they have at hand.

Quote from: kefkafloyd on August 24, 2016, 09:21:03 AMExit 10 will be more difficult. While eliminating the tollbooths will help, the narrow and curvy ramps for both MA 12 and the interstates there will be a problem. I will be interested in seeing what MassDOT will propose for a reconfigured interchange. There's no room without considerable land takings and environmental impact. I'm pretty sure they'll punt on it.

Aside from removing the tollbooths; I don't believe that MassDOT presently has any plans to overhaul/redesign this interchange.

Quote from: PHLBOS on August 24, 2016, 11:01:35 AM

Quote from: kefkafloyd on August 24, 2016, 09:21:03 AMExit 10 will be more difficult. While eliminating the tollbooths will help, the narrow and curvy ramps for both MA 12 and the interstates there will be a problem. I will be interested in seeing what MassDOT will propose for a reconfigured interchange. There's no room without considerable land takings and environmental impact. I'm pretty sure they'll punt on it.

Aside from removing the tollbooths; I don't believe that MassDOT presently has any plans to overhaul/redesign this interchange.

That is correct.  The only work at the Interchange 10 location will be to demo the tollbooths and narrow/straighten the ramps through the old tollbooth area.  No work will be done to the ramps leading to I-290 and Route 12 themselves.

MassDOT has created an online toll calculator to let people figure out how much they'll pay under the new system (or in my case, how much more I'll pay, for all the entry and exit points I entered):
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highway/TollCalculator.aspx (http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highway/TollCalculator.aspx)

According to the calculator, out of state rates will stay the same in the ticket system. Good.

Bit of a jump for the Ted Williams Tunnel.

Looks like they are putting down the initial spray paint markings on the pavement (which are faint) for when the toll booth demolition starts.

Quote from: cl94 on August 23, 2016, 09:00:08 PM
NYSTA gets that south of Newburgh, as do the TBTA crossings. NYSTA gets ~50% in the Buffalo area.

What I'd like to know here is the percentage of E-ZPass users from out of state. As the NY discount is huge compared to the current discount in just about any state other than Maine, most people in CT with E-ZPass as well as many in western Massachusetts have one from NYSTA or the MTA. A lot of the traffic past Worcester is out-of-state and, if these rates go through, a lot of them will bleed off to I-84, US 6, MA 2, US 20 and/or VT/NH 9. I know I'd seriously consider dealing with 2, 9, or 20 if I'm not in a rush.

I doubt it.  E-ZPass discourages price awareness–almost kills it entirely.   I don't think toll road demand is price elastic at this level anyway.

I went to one of the hearings tonight. They are absolutely maintaining the price increase for out-of-state drivers coupled with a price decrease for most in-state drivers.  These terms are not used, of course–no mention of a price increase of any kind comes up, just "revenue neutrality."

I asked what the justification for the shift was. I was told that it was the feeling of the presenter that people living in Massachusetts deserve a discount over other states' users.  I asked what "deserve" means given that the impact of a vehicle from Massachusetts versus that from another state is identical, but I did not get a satisfactory explanation.

I said E-ZPass works better with consistent regional standards rather than parochialism.  I probably should not have said that taking the opportunity to save ourselves a few pennies at the expense of others is juvenile, but that's how it feels to me.

Something else that was interesting was when I asked the folks signing up new Massachusetts E-ZPass members why the electronic transaction clearinghouse system wouldn't flag and reconcile simultaneous transactions by the same vehicle if I mounted two transponders.  Total deer-in-the-headlights reaction.  They suggested I take one of the static bags.  With two state troopers there, I said, "Wouldn't fiddling with the transponder on the road amount to illegally using a handheld electronic device?"  Everyone was sick of me at that point so I left.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 14, 2016, 08:29:41 PMSomething else that was interesting was when I asked the folks signing up new Massachusetts E-ZPass members why the electronic transaction clearinghouse system wouldn't flag and reconcile simultaneous transactions by the same vehicle if I mounted two transponders.  Total deer-in-the-headlights reaction.  They suggested I take one of the static bags.  With two state troopers there, I said, "Wouldn't fiddling with the transponder on the road amount to illegally using a handheld electronic device?"  Everyone was sick of me at that point so I left.

If memory serves, current Massachusetts law still allows drivers to use their cell phones (even hand-held ones) while in motion but texting while driving-while-driving is prohibited; I know, grey area and another topic for another thread.

Another question that would've certainly IMHO either caused another deer-in-the-headlight situation or formulate some double-talk from MassDOT would've been how long would it be until MassDOT started imposing an annual fee of its own for its E-ZPass accounts?  In the early years of E-ZPass, many agencies (DRPA & the NJ Consortium come to mind) didn't initially charge an annual or monthly fee either but such all changed when it was discovered (at least in the NJ Consortium's case) that agencies were actually losing revenue due to a surge in users taking advantage of the discounted E-ZPass rates vs. the higher cash rates (E-ZPass had just come to the NJ Turnpike around the same time a toll increase for initially cash users took effect).

Long story short, we could see history repeat itself in that regard and the current preaching of fee-less MassDOT E-ZPass accounts & transponders will ultimately turn out to be one great big lie long-term.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 09, 2016, 12:24:23 PM

Quote from: cl94 on August 23, 2016, 09:00:08 PM
NYSTA gets that south of Newburgh, as do the TBTA crossings. NYSTA gets ~50% in the Buffalo area.

What I'd like to know here is the percentage of E-ZPass users from out of state. As the NY discount is huge compared to the current discount in just about any state other than Maine, most people in CT with E-ZPass as well as many in western Massachusetts have one from NYSTA or the MTA. A lot of the traffic past Worcester is out-of-state and, if these rates go through, a lot of them will bleed off to I-84, US 6, MA 2, US 20 and/or VT/NH 9. I know I'd seriously consider dealing with 2, 9, or 20 if I'm not in a rush.

I doubt it.  E-ZPass discourages price awareness–almost kills it entirely.   I don't think toll road demand is price elastic at this level anyway.

Price awareness is still very much around with electronic tolling here.  People with I-Passes known they're half the price of cash tolls, and they the toll rates are posted prior to the plaza (for cash) and after the plaza (cash and I-Pass).  There's a reason over 87% of ISTHA users have an I-Pass (or E-Z Pass).

Quote from: Brandon on September 15, 2016, 10:54:17 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 09, 2016, 12:24:23 PM

Quote from: cl94 on August 23, 2016, 09:00:08 PM
NYSTA gets that south of Newburgh, as do the TBTA crossings. NYSTA gets ~50% in the Buffalo area.

What I'd like to know here is the percentage of E-ZPass users from out of state. As the NY discount is huge compared to the current discount in just about any state other than Maine, most people in CT with E-ZPass as well as many in western Massachusetts have one from NYSTA or the MTA. A lot of the traffic past Worcester is out-of-state and, if these rates go through, a lot of them will bleed off to I-84, US 6, MA 2, US 20 and/or VT/NH 9. I know I'd seriously consider dealing with 2, 9, or 20 if I'm not in a rush.

I doubt it.  E-ZPass discourages price awareness–almost kills it entirely.   I don't think toll road demand is price elastic at this level anyway.

Price awareness is still very much around with electronic tolling here.  People with I-Passes known they're half the price of cash tolls, and they the toll rates are posted prior to the plaza (for cash) and after the plaza (cash and I-Pass).  There's a reason over 87% of ISTHA users have an I-Pass (or E-Z Pass).

I would be very surprised if many people that are not daily users can tell you what their tolls are under all electronic tolling

Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 15, 2016, 11:11:50 AM

Quote from: Brandon on September 15, 2016, 10:54:17 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 09, 2016, 12:24:23 PM

Quote from: cl94 on August 23, 2016, 09:00:08 PM
NYSTA gets that south of Newburgh, as do the TBTA crossings. NYSTA gets ~50% in the Buffalo area.

What I'd like to know here is the percentage of E-ZPass users from out of state. As the NY discount is huge compared to the current discount in just about any state other than Maine, most people in CT with E-ZPass as well as many in western Massachusetts have one from NYSTA or the MTA. A lot of the traffic past Worcester is out-of-state and, if these rates go through, a lot of them will bleed off to I-84, US 6, MA 2, US 20 and/or VT/NH 9. I know I'd seriously consider dealing with 2, 9, or 20 if I'm not in a rush.

I doubt it.  E-ZPass discourages price awareness–almost kills it entirely.   I don't think toll road demand is price elastic at this level anyway.

Price awareness is still very much around with electronic tolling here.  People with I-Passes known they're half the price of cash tolls, and they the toll rates are posted prior to the plaza (for cash) and after the plaza (cash and I-Pass).  There's a reason over 87% of ISTHA users have an I-Pass (or E-Z Pass).

I would be very surprised if many people that are not daily users can tell you what their tolls are under all electronic tolling

Depends on where you are. Many people, even those with E-ZPass, know that, on the Thruway, going to I-88 from Exits 24-26 is free.

Quote from: PHLBOS on September 15, 2016, 09:57:41 AM
Another question that would've certainly IMHO either caused another deer-in-the-headlight situation or formulate some double-talk from MassDOT would've been how long would it be until MassDOT started imposing an annual fee of its own for its E-ZPass accounts?  In the early years of E-ZPass, many agencies (DRPA & the NJ Consortium come to mind) didn't initially charge an annual or monthly fee either but such all changed when it was discovered (at least in the NJ Consortium's case) that agencies were actually losing revenue due to a surge in users taking advantage of the discounted E-ZPass rates vs. the higher cash rates (E-ZPass had just come to the NJ Turnpike around the same time a toll increase for initially cash users took effect).

They tried several years ago. When the price of transponders was reduced to "free" in 2009, the state was going to charge a 50 cent/month (or $6/year) annual fee on all account holders, even if they "paid for" their transponder (anyone before January 2009). The reaction was swift and negative, and the Turnpike Authority backed off very quickly a few months later in April after the disastrous easter backups that year. The fee never went into practice, as this was a few months before the July start date.

I do not expect them to repeat that public relations disaster with the impending implementation of AET.

Looks like they are targeting Oct 28th to go live - a VMS on the ramp from I-95 NB to the Pike seen this weekend stated something to the effect of "no cash after Oct 28" and advertised the EZPass MA website.

Quote from: spooky on September 19, 2016, 08:06:01 AM
Looks like they are targeting Oct 28th to go live - a VMS on the ramp from I-95 NB to the Pike seen this weekend stated something to the effect of "no cash after Oct 28" and advertised the EZPass MA website.

And you can see that at least some gantries are life - something is blinking as cars are passing underneath, probably license plates photos are taken.

I am a bit surprised to see a single set at each location - as far as I remember, IL tollway has a pair of structures, and I am not sure if Woodbury barrier on NYS Thruway has 2 or 3..

Quote from: kalvado on September 19, 2016, 08:34:42 AM

Quote from: spooky on September 19, 2016, 08:06:01 AM
Looks like they are targeting Oct 28th to go live - a VMS on the ramp from I-95 NB to the Pike seen this weekend stated something to the effect of "no cash after Oct 28" and advertised the EZPass MA website.

And you can see that at least some gantries are life - something is blinking as cars are passing underneath, probably license plates photos are taken.

I am a bit surprised to see a single set at each location - as far as I remember, IL tollway has a pair of structures, and I am not sure if Woodbury barrier on NYS Thruway has 2 or 3..

That's usually the quick camera flash, or maybe a small LED light.  The AC Expressway keeps a light on all the time aimed at the license plate area, but at highway speeds it appears to be a flash, so it could be that as well.

And all of that is just a testing phase most likely at this point.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 19, 2016, 08:40:34 AM

Quote from: kalvado on September 19, 2016, 08:34:42 AM

Quote from: spooky on September 19, 2016, 08:06:01 AM
Looks like they are targeting Oct 28th to go live - a VMS on the ramp from I-95 NB to the Pike seen this weekend stated something to the effect of "no cash after Oct 28" and advertised the EZPass MA website.

And you can see that at least some gantries are life - something is blinking as cars are passing underneath, probably license plates photos are taken.

I am a bit surprised to see a single set at each location - as far as I remember, IL tollway has a pair of structures, and I am not sure if Woodbury barrier on NYS Thruway has 2 or 3..

That's usually the quick camera flash, or maybe a small LED light.  The AC Expressway keeps a light on all the time aimed at the license plate area, but at highway speeds it appears to be a flash, so it could be that as well.

And all of that is just a testing phase most likely at this point.

I would expect IR cameras and IR flash - a visible flash in the eyes at highway speed is not quite nice, especially at night. And some of IR illuminators are slightly visible - and that is OK as long as they don't blind the driver. Actually I can see some remotes as slight red lights (you need complete darkness for that)
A bit strange that they are taking front picture - rear probably makes more sense (id EZpass didn't register,  then..  and some states still OK with one plate only). Maybe for tractor-trailers, where rear plate can belong to trailer? 

Quote from: kefkafloyd on September 18, 2016, 07:29:37 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on September 15, 2016, 09:57:41 AM
Another question that would've certainly IMHO either caused another deer-in-the-headlight situation or formulate some double-talk from MassDOT would've been how long would it be until MassDOT started imposing an annual fee of its own for its E-ZPass accounts?  In the early years of E-ZPass, many agencies (DRPA & the NJ Consortium come to mind) didn't initially charge an annual or monthly fee either but such all changed when it was discovered (at least in the NJ Consortium's case) that agencies were actually losing revenue due to a surge in users taking advantage of the discounted E-ZPass rates vs. the higher cash rates (E-ZPass had just come to the NJ Turnpike around the same time a toll increase for initially cash users took effect).

They tried several years ago. When the price of transponders was reduced to "free" in 2009, the state was going to charge a 50 cent/month (or $6/year) annual fee on all account holders, even if they "paid for" their transponder (anyone before January 2009). The reaction was swift and negative, and the Turnpike Authority backed off very quickly a few months later in April after the disastrous easter backups that year. The fee never went into practice, as this was a few months before the July start date.

I do not expect them to repeat that public relations disaster with the impending implementation of AET.

Those backups that happened back then because the cash toll booths were still present.  A year or two from now, such won't be.  I'm not a betting man; but I'm willing that MassDOT (the Turnpike Authority has since merged into or become a division of MassDOT) will try to implement an annual fee about 2 years from now... mark my words.

Quote from: PHLBOS on September 19, 2016, 09:31:16 AM

Quote from: kefkafloyd on September 18, 2016, 07:29:37 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on September 15, 2016, 09:57:41 AM
Another question that would've certainly IMHO either caused another deer-in-the-headlight situation or formulate some double-talk from MassDOT would've been how long would it be until MassDOT started imposing an annual fee of its own for its E-ZPass accounts?  In the early years of E-ZPass, many agencies (DRPA & the NJ Consortium come to mind) didn't initially charge an annual or monthly fee either but such all changed when it was discovered (at least in the NJ Consortium's case) that agencies were actually losing revenue due to a surge in users taking advantage of the discounted E-ZPass rates vs. the higher cash rates (E-ZPass had just come to the NJ Turnpike around the same time a toll increase for initially cash users took effect).

They tried several years ago. When the price of transponders was reduced to "free" in 2009, the state was going to charge a 50 cent/month (or $6/year) annual fee on all account holders, even if they "paid for" their transponder (anyone before January 2009). The reaction was swift and negative, and the Turnpike Authority backed off very quickly a few months later in April after the disastrous easter backups that year. The fee never went into practice, as this was a few months before the July start date.

I do not expect them to repeat that public relations disaster with the impending implementation of AET.

Those backups that happened back then because the cash toll booths were still present.  A year or two from now, such won't be.  I'm not a betting man; but I'm willing that MassDOT (the Turnpike Authority has since merged into or become a division of MassDOT) will try to implement an annual fee about 2 years from now... mark my words.

I wouldn't doubt it. Of course, they could be like New York and just charge the fee to people who request one from out of state.

Quote from: PHLBOS on September 19, 2016, 09:31:16 AM
Those backups that happened back then because the cash toll booths were still present.  A year or two from now, such won't be.  I'm not a betting man; but I'm willing that MassDOT (the Turnpike Authority has since merged into or become a division of MassDOT) will try to implement an annual fee about 2 years from now... mark my words.

The backups were simply the straw; everyone I know who had a transponder was extremely annoyed about the fee and there had been a long and public backlash against the fee before that.

It's still too soon even two years from now. Maybe five or ten years will be different. I wouldn't say never, but they would get less backlash raising the tolls versus charging a monthly fee.

Quote from: kefkafloyd on September 19, 2016, 01:13:56 PM
I wouldn't say never, but they would get less backlash raising the tolls versus charging a monthly fee.

I agree with that. A bunch of people who have E-ZPass will go a couple months without using it, then use it quite often in a short period. Raising tolls (especially on trucks) would raise as much money if not more without pissing off the infrequent users.

Those who did or didn't attend any of the public meetings about the proposed AET toll structure have until the end of this week to send comments. Questions or comments may be directed by e-mail to: AETinfo@dot.state.ma.us

Since I was traveling through the West Stockbridge toll barrier at the western end of the Pike on Saturday, I took this photo of the toll plaza before its scheduled demolition with the adoption of AET on October 28:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90signs916m.JPG&hash=12cfe379e0fb091f259059d5171cbe0ebb159620)

I've noticed new striping at the toll plazas that I assume is intended to channelize vehicles for the period in between when the booths go unmanned and the plazas are demolished.

According to local media outlets, this system has been in the testing phase since sometime this summer.

Some other tidbits from the hearing: the center toll booths on wider toll plazas will be demolished, the tunnel below filled and paved over, then traffic routed through there so the same can proceed on the outer lanes. This phase will take 30 days.  The remainder of the removal will be six months to a year, I believe.

MassDOT has scheduled a new round of public meetings regarding the demolition of toll plazas after AET activation on 10/28. Press release:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/toll-plaza-demolition-reconstruction-public-meetings-set/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/toll-plaza-demolition-reconstruction-public-meetings-set/)

Observation this week: all signs relating to tolls have rolled-up tarps tied atop them, ready to drop in four weeks.

Saw a sign somewhere around Worcester saying unspecified road work will begin 10/3.

The MassDOT Board approved the new AET toll rates this afternoon to go into effect the evening of 10/28. There were some adjustments due to public comments. The official blog entry has a link to the revised toll calculator page:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-board-approves-all-electronic-tolling-gantry-rates/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-board-approves-all-electronic-tolling-gantry-rates/)

Quote from: bob7374 on October 06, 2016, 11:31:41 PM
The MassDOT Board approved the new AET toll rates this afternoon to go into effect the evening of 10/28. There were some adjustments due to public comments. The official blog entry has a link to the revised toll calculator page:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-board-approves-all-electronic-tolling-gantry-rates/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-board-approves-all-electronic-tolling-gantry-rates/)

I really wonder how the switching would be organized. If things can be  relatively simple for ezpass - just overlap and remove duplicate charges - things may be interesting with last paper tickets...

Quote from: bob7374 on October 06, 2016, 11:31:41 PM
The MassDOT Board approved the new AET toll rates this afternoon to go into effect the evening of 10/28. There were some adjustments due to public comments. The official blog entry has a link to the revised toll calculator page:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-board-approves-all-electronic-tolling-gantry-rates/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-board-approves-all-electronic-tolling-gantry-rates/)

The Boston Globe ran a story about the revised rates this morning.  The new rates mentioned in the story:

Weston (near the maintenance center and State Police barracks):  was 45 cents, now 20 cents
Allston (just west of interchange 18):  was 50 cents, now 35 cents
Newton (just east of interchange 16):  was 20 cents, now 35 cents

The toll rates announced initially would have resulted in half of all trips on the toll roads paying higher tolls than before.  The new rates will mean that about 64 percent will pay the same or lower rates.

Also announced yesterday was a grace period for drivers who sign up for E-ZPass after October 28th.  For six months after 10/28, drivers who get an E-ZPass tag will be credited the difference between the bill-by-mail and E-ZPass rates.

Quote from: bob7374 on October 06, 2016, 11:31:41 PM
The MassDOT Board approved the new AET toll rates this afternoon to go into effect the evening of 10/28. There were some adjustments due to public comments. The official blog entry has a link to the revised toll calculator page:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-board-approves-all-electronic-tolling-gantry-rates/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-board-approves-all-electronic-tolling-gantry-rates/)

When using the provided toll calculator (http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highway/TollCalculator.aspx) in the above-link to calculate a Sturbridge (I-84) to Weston (I-95/MA 128) toll (a jaunt I frequently make); the following rates (one-way) were listed:

Current toll: $1.75

AET w/MA E-ZPass: $1.70
AET w/other E-ZPass: $1.70
Cash-By-Plate: $1.70

Either there's in error in the toll calculator or there appears to be a discounted grace period toll for all users regardless of payment method.  Personally, I tend to believe that the former is true (error) unless otherwise officially noted.

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 07, 2016, 09:29:06 AM

Quote from: bob7374 on October 06, 2016, 11:31:41 PM
The MassDOT Board approved the new AET toll rates this afternoon to go into effect the evening of 10/28. There were some adjustments due to public comments. The official blog entry has a link to the revised toll calculator page:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-board-approves-all-electronic-tolling-gantry-rates/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-board-approves-all-electronic-tolling-gantry-rates/)

When using the provided toll calculator (http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highway/TollCalculator.aspx) in the above-link to calculate a Sturbridge (I-84) to Weston (I-95/MA 128) toll (a jaunt I frequently make); the following rates (one-way) were listed:

Current toll: $1.75

AET w/MA E-ZPass: $1.70
AET w/other E-ZPass: $1.70
Cash-By-Plate: $1.70

Either there's in error in the toll calculator or there appears to be a discounted grace period toll for all users regardless of payment method.  Personally, I tend to believe that the former is true (error) unless otherwise officially noted.

There's an error in how the display works. When you enter a new classification from the list the toll rates appear to refresh, but they actually don't. You need to press the submit button again to get the actual new rate.

Thus for I-84 to I-95/128 the rates listed are:
Current          -   $1.75
E-ZPassMA     -   $1.70
OtherE-ZPass  -  $2.00
No E-ZPass     -  $3.50

For the length of the Turnpike from West Stockbridge to Logan Airport
Current            -  $7.10
E-ZPassMA       -   $7.45
E-ZPass Other   -  $9.35
No E-ZPass       - $13.55

Quote from: bob7374 on October 07, 2016, 12:28:39 PMThere's an error in how the display works. When you enter a new classification from the list the toll rates appear to refresh, but they actually don't. You need to press the submit button again to get the actual new rate.

Thus for I-84 to I-95/128 the rates listed are:
Current          -   $1.75
E-ZPassMA     -   $1.70
OtherE-ZPass  -  $2.00
No E-ZPass     -  $3.50

Got it. 

What's interesting is when one looks at the Current Toll heading when one checks the out-of-state E-ZPass rate; the toll is listed at $2.20.  :confused:  Something's still not working quite right in that calculator.

Berkshire Eagle article discussing in detail how the Mass Pike toll plazas at Exits 1 and 2 will be demolished with the start of the AET system 10/28:
http://www.berkshireeagle.com/news/ci_30462484/razing-tolls-at-exit-1 (http://www.berkshireeagle.com/news/ci_30462484/razing-tolls-at-exit-1)

MassDOT has posted the presentation from the first of those meetings, focused on the demolition of the plazas at Exits 1 and 2.    Looks like they plan to construct an EB weigh station at the site of the West Stockbridge plaza.   Which is good, considering how frequently Mass operates its stations and how well the one between Sturbridge and Auburn worked out.

http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/8/docs/aet/presentation_101116.pdf

Nice to see that they're going to try and have it all done pretty quickly. Compare that to how long it took New York to remove the EB booths at the Verrazano.

Or the Henry Hudson.  AET became permanent there a couple years ago, the work on the new gantry and toll plaza demolition has already begun, and it's not supposed to be completed until 2020.  And that's before Cuomo's AET announcement (which makes one wonder if any work at the Henry Hudson will need to be redone).  Something tells me the other MTA AET conversions won't happen any faster.

I took what were likely my last rides on the Mass Pike before the AET conversion through the Berkshires and back this afternoon and tonight.  Great day for it with a lot of sun and near peak foliage.  There are a lot of VMS messages about the conversion, and at least one billboard in Westfield.  All of the signs that won't be relevant in 2 weeks have blue tarps ready to be pulled down over them.  It is going to be strange going past what will soon be the former site of the Stockbridge toll booth and not having to slow down.

Quote from: Jim on October 15, 2016, 12:25:40 AM
I took what were likely my last rides on the Mass Pike before the AET conversion through the Berkshires and back this afternoon and tonight.  Great day for it with a lot of sun and near peak foliage.  There are a lot of VMS messages about the conversion, and at least one billboard in Westfield.  All of the signs that won't be relevant in 2 weeks have blue tarps ready to be pulled down over them.  It is going to be strange going past what will soon be the former site of the Stockbridge toll booth and not having to slow down.

Here's a photo of one of the covered gantry signs I took yesterday after the I-84 Sturbridge in Charlton heading east:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016k.JPG&hash=981a2e5826c808c6661040ba6a601831cace5490)

Here's a photo from my last time west through the Weston tolls:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016f.JPG&hash=353f44ee3b4e07b7c35903a5a044576f2a563a07)

And of the 1-Mile warning sign that will no longer be needed in 2 weeks:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016d.JPG&hash=8f6bdc89bbaddbd20cd47255612e330dc9054636)

Looks like Charlton heading east, not long before the westbound rest stop, between exits 9 and 10.

Quote from: bob7374 on October 15, 2016, 12:51:10 PM
Here's a photo of one of the covered gantry signs I took yesterday after the I-84 Sturbridge heading east:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016k.JPG&hash=981a2e5826c808c6661040ba6a601831cace5490)

13'11"?  Given that half of a country uses 14', isn't that a bit low for a new structure? Especially on a major highway with limited bypass options..

Quote from: kalvado on October 16, 2016, 11:33:19 AM

Quote from: bob7374 on October 15, 2016, 12:51:10 PM
Here's a photo of one of the covered gantry signs I took yesterday after the I-84 Sturbridge heading east:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016k.JPG&hash=981a2e5826c808c6661040ba6a601831cace5490)

13'11"?  Given that half of a country uses 14', isn't that a bit low for a new structure? Especially on a major highway with limited bypass options..

In most cases, actual clearance is 2.5" higher than what the sign says.

Quote from: kalvado on October 16, 2016, 11:33:19 AM

Quote from: bob7374 on October 15, 2016, 12:51:10 PM
Here's a photo of one of the covered gantry signs I took yesterday after the I-84 Sturbridge heading east:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016k.JPG&hash=981a2e5826c808c6661040ba6a601831cace5490)

13'11"?  Given that half of a country uses 14', isn't that a bit low for a new structure? Especially on a major highway with limited bypass options..

That's one inch difference.

The 13' 11" is actually referring to the overpass you see in the far background of the photo, not the toll gantry.   That sign has been there for years.

Quote from: Beeper1 on October 16, 2016, 10:28:11 PM
The 13' 11" is actually referring to the overpass you see in the far background of the photo, not the toll gantry.   That sign has been there for years.

Beat me to it. The gantries are standard height.

Quote from: Beeper1 on October 16, 2016, 10:28:11 PM
The 13' 11" is actually referring to the overpass you see in the far background of the photo, not the toll gantry.   That sign has been there for years.

Ah, NOW that makes sense!

Traveled the Pike yesterday between I-84 and 128 yesterday (with a road full of leaf peepers).  Small directional signs have been placed before the two toll booths I went through...for example, WEST I-90 with a left arrow and EAST I-90 with a right arrow, before the Sturbridge toll booths.  Also, above the SPEED LIMIT 15 signs at the booths are small (and currently covered) signs:  DO NOT STOP.

Quote from: SidS1045 on October 22, 2016, 03:20:09 PM
Traveled the Pike yesterday between I-84 and 128 yesterday (with a road full of leaf peepers).  Small directional signs have been placed before the two toll booths I went through...for example, WEST I-90 with a left arrow and EAST I-90 with a right arrow, before the Sturbridge toll booths.  Also, above the SPEED LIMIT 15 signs at the booths are small (and currently covered) signs:  DO NOT STOP.

The presentation slides showing the toll plaza layouts during and after the demolition project are available for all exits east of the Weston tolls  at:
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highway/TollInformation/AllElectronicTolling.aspx (http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highway/TollInformation/AllElectronicTolling.aspx)

Current timeline for Friday night (10/28) transition to AET:

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/mass_turnpike_electronic_tolli_3.html

Friday is the big day. MassDOT has been doing a huge PR blast, with all news agencies in or near Massachusetts providing information on the change. I'll probably check out the work at Stockbridge and Lee at some point next week and report back.

Quote from: cl94 on October 25, 2016, 12:36:33 PM
Friday is the big day. MassDOT has been doing a huge PR blast, with all news agencies in or near Massachusetts providing information on the change. I'll probably check out the work at Stockbridge and Lee at some point next week and report back.

More like big night.
http://www.westernmassnews.com/story/33464828/states-all-electronic-tolling-to-launch-friday

Quote
Manual toll collection and E-ZPass transactions at the toll plazas will end at 9:45 p.m. Friday.
The state's new all-electronic tolling system will then go live at 10 p.m. Friday.

So... how do they plan to make the toll conversion seamless?  If you enter at 9:46 and exit at 9:59, is the trip free?  If you enter at 9:44 and pass under a gantry at 10:01, are you double tolled?

Quote from: vdeane on October 25, 2016, 01:11:41 PM
So... how do they plan to make the toll conversion seamless?  If you enter at 9:46 and exit at 9:59, is the trip free?  If you enter at 9:44 and pass under a gantry at 10:01, are you double tolled?

If it was up to me, I would rather give out free travel than double-charge anyone; for PR reasons if nothing else.
I would charge anyone EXITING before 9.45 a both rate, and bill any gantry passing starting 10.00. Someone going from Boston airport to NY and exiting highway at 9.50 would be the winner.. But how much would Masspike loose in grand scheme of things, especially late Friday night? Probably enough to pay for two steel rods in one gantry...

I would expect that someone who enters before 9:45 but exits after would not be charged under the old system, since there would be no end point. They would be tolled under the new system if they remain on the highway and pass under a gantry after 10 PM.

Quote from: kalvado on October 25, 2016, 01:26:47 PM

Quote from: vdeane on October 25, 2016, 01:11:41 PM
So... how do they plan to make the toll conversion seamless?  If you enter at 9:46 and exit at 9:59, is the trip free?  If you enter at 9:44 and pass under a gantry at 10:01, are you double tolled?

If it was up to me, I would rather give out free travel than double-charge anyone; for PR reasons if nothing else.
I would charge anyone EXITING before 9.45 a both rate, and bill any gantry passing starting 10.00. Someone going from Boston airport to NY and exiting highway at 9.50 would be the winner.. But how much would Masspike loose in grand scheme of things, especially late Friday night? Probably enough to pay for two steel rods in one gantry...

Weston to Stockbridge. There are 2 barrier tolls east of Weston.

Quote from: spooky on October 25, 2016, 01:29:40 PM
I would expect that someone who enters before 9:45 but exits after would not be charged under the old system, since there would be no end point. They would be tolled under the new system if they remain on the highway and pass under a gantry after 10 PM.

I expect this is the case. They're shutting down the old system at 9:45 and it is only recorded on your account after you exit.

Real bummed that I'm going to be out of town on the 28th, I would have driven down to snag a final ticket for a souvenir before go-live.

Looking at the other presentations for the redesigned ramps, the proposed redesign for the Sumner tunnel provides just one through travel lane for 1A traffic with a new controlled intersection for the East Boston streets. The new intersection seems much more equitable to East Boston traffic than the current free-for-all at the tollbooth.

Quote from: cl94 on October 25, 2016, 01:51:52 PM

Quote from: kalvado on October 25, 2016, 01:26:47 PM

Quote from: vdeane on October 25, 2016, 01:11:41 PM
So... how do they plan to make the toll conversion seamless?  If you enter at 9:46 and exit at 9:59, is the trip free?  If you enter at 9:44 and pass under a gantry at 10:01, are you double tolled?

If it was up to me, I would rather give out free travel than double-charge anyone; for PR reasons if nothing else.
I would charge anyone EXITING before 9.45 a both rate, and bill any gantry passing starting 10.00. Someone going from Boston airport to NY and exiting highway at 9.50 would be the winner.. But how much would Masspike loose in grand scheme of things, especially late Friday night? Probably enough to pay for two steel rods in one gantry...

Weston to Stockbridge. There are 2 barrier tolls east of Weston.

Quote from: spooky on October 25, 2016, 01:29:40 PM
I would expect that someone who enters before 9:45 but exits after would not be charged under the old system, since there would be no end point. They would be tolled under the new system if they remain on the highway and pass under a gantry after 10 PM.

I expect this is the case. They're shutting down the old system at 9:45 and it is only recorded on your account after you exit.

For that matter, the new gantries are technically live now - they have to be "burned in" with live traffic for calibration. So they probably actually turn on the gantries somewhat earlier than 10 PM, but only capture tolling data via exit points after 9:45.

Quote from: Alps on October 25, 2016, 06:01:00 PM

Quote from: cl94 on October 25, 2016, 01:51:52 PM

Quote from: kalvado on October 25, 2016, 01:26:47 PM

Quote from: vdeane on October 25, 2016, 01:11:41 PM
So... how do they plan to make the toll conversion seamless?  If you enter at 9:46 and exit at 9:59, is the trip free?  If you enter at 9:44 and pass under a gantry at 10:01, are you double tolled?

If it was up to me, I would rather give out free travel than double-charge anyone; for PR reasons if nothing else.
I would charge anyone EXITING before 9.45 a both rate, and bill any gantry passing starting 10.00. Someone going from Boston airport to NY and exiting highway at 9.50 would be the winner.. But how much would Masspike loose in grand scheme of things, especially late Friday night? Probably enough to pay for two steel rods in one gantry...

Weston to Stockbridge. There are 2 barrier tolls east of Weston.

Quote from: spooky on October 25, 2016, 01:29:40 PM
I would expect that someone who enters before 9:45 but exits after would not be charged under the old system, since there would be no end point. They would be tolled under the new system if they remain on the highway and pass under a gantry after 10 PM.

I expect this is the case. They're shutting down the old system at 9:45 and it is only recorded on your account after you exit.

For that matter, the new gantries are technically live now - they have to be "burned in" with live traffic for calibration. So they probably actually turn on the gantries somewhat earlier than 10 PM, but only capture tolling data via exit points after 9:45.

The gantries have been live since at least August for calibration.

Quote from: kalvado on October 25, 2016, 01:26:47 PM

Quote from: vdeane on October 25, 2016, 01:11:41 PM
So... how do they plan to make the toll conversion seamless?  If you enter at 9:46 and exit at 9:59, is the trip free?  If you enter at 9:44 and pass under a gantry at 10:01, are you double tolled?

If it was up to me, I would rather give out free travel than double-charge anyone; for PR reasons if nothing else.
I would charge anyone EXITING before 9.45 a both rate, and bill any gantry passing starting 10.00. Someone going from Boston airport to NY and exiting highway at 9.50 would be the winner.. But how much would Masspike loose in grand scheme of things, especially late Friday night? Probably enough to pay for two steel rods in one gantry...

15 minutes of free travel won't kill them; they have been liberal in the past with waiving tolls when there is extreme traffic (especially at Sturbridge on holiday weekends) and waiving tolls on 9/11 due to the sudden stoppage of air and rail travel out of Boston and most of the region.  The only ones who get off totally free will be the few who got on before the old system shuts down and exit by 9:59 without passing under a new system reader.  Otherwise people will pay something, even if it is less than full price.

I am surprised that the only email I have gotten as a Mass E-ZPass accountholder (going all the way back to BankBoston FastLane) about the cutover was just today (Tuesday) about the cutover--maybe something went to junk or clutter, but I didn't see anything in there.  (I always get the statement emails, etc.)  Maybe they figure any further in advance would be forgotten and also in reality, few people will change any travel plans due to the cutover.

Quote from: PurdueBill on October 26, 2016, 01:12:29 AM
I am surprised that the only email I have gotten as a Mass E-ZPass accountholder (going all the way back to BankBoston FastLane) about the cutover was just today (Tuesday) about the cutover--maybe something went to junk or clutter, but I didn't see anything in there.  (I always get the statement emails, etc.)  Maybe they figure any further in advance would be forgotten and also in reality, few people will change any travel plans due to the cutover.

I'm a Massachusetts account holder (switched from NH when my transponder quit working), and I haven't received any e-mails about the changeover as of this morning (10/26).

Update - Got my notification e-mail this morning (10/28).  Nothing like waiting to the last minute to send it out

MassDOT has posted an animated video about the process of demolishing the toll plaza at the Auburn interchange:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/uncategorized/video-toll-plaza-demolition-reconstruction-shown-step-by-step/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/uncategorized/video-toll-plaza-demolition-reconstruction-shown-step-by-step/)

Quote from: PurdueBill on October 26, 2016, 01:12:29 AM
The only ones who get off totally free will be the few who got on before the old system shuts down and exit by 9:59 without passing under a new system reader.

Don't need to exit by 9:59.  Just pass under the last gantry; the time difference could theoretically be a large amount.  For example, you get on from NY and are heading east; you pass under the Blandford gantry at 9:59 and then stop in the service area for 15 minutes and exit at Westfield at 10:30.  That trip would be free.

More fun scenario: enter at I-95.  Travel west and reach the Blandford service area.  Sit in service area for a while, ensuring that you exit the Pike after 9:45 but do not pass under either the Blandford or Lee gantries after 10:00.  How many will do this?  Don't know, but I bet it's at least one!

Quote from: vdeane on October 26, 2016, 01:10:33 PM

Quote from: PurdueBill on October 26, 2016, 01:12:29 AM
The only ones who get off totally free will be the few who got on before the old system shuts down and exit by 9:59 without passing under a new system reader.

Don't need to exit by 9:59.  Just pass under the last gantry; the time difference could theoretically be a large amount.  For example, you get on from NY and are heading east; you pass under the Blandford gantry at 9:59 and then stop in the service area for 15 minutes and exit at Westfield at 10:30.  That trip would be free.

More fun scenario: enter at I-95.  Travel west and reach the Blandford service area.  Sit in service area for a while, ensuring that you exit the Pike after 9:45 but do not pass under either the Blandford or Lee gantries after 10:00.  How many will do this?  Don't know, but I bet it's at least one!

I may join as well..

Some observations from the field:

Lots of barrels and heavy barriers stacked up on the sides of the road at the toll plazas. 

Saw a truck with removed Mass Pike entrance signs, which have been replaced with new ones warning motorists of the toll system.  The toll information on the new signs is tarped over.  I am happy to see the goofy single-word "MASSPIKE" on those signs go.

Tarp blew off one sign west of Auburn, sign read:

   Electronic toll

   No transponder
   No problem

   We will bill you.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 27, 2016, 03:27:49 PM
Tarp blew off one sign west of Auburn, sign read

   Electronic Toll Ahead

   No transponder?
   No problem.

   We will bill you.

FIFY

Quote from: roadman on October 27, 2016, 03:55:24 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 27, 2016, 03:27:49 PM
Tarp blew off one sign west of Auburn, sign read

   Electronic Toll Ahead

   No transponder?
   No problem.

   We will bill you.

FIFY

Thanks.  The tarp was still over a corner of the sign.

Quote from: roadman on October 27, 2016, 03:55:24 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 27, 2016, 03:27:49 PM
Tarp blew off one sign west of Auburn, sign read

   Electronic Toll Ahead

   No transponder?
   No problem.

   We will bill you.

FIFY

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fnv3TqEb.jpg&hash=32f6f34713c629e835cd5825f76f4df2d04d5eb4)

Pro tip:  Enter where there is a "Tickets or E-ZPass" lane, then exit normally for no additional charge for your souvenir ticket.

Otherwise, just take the ticket and try to leave as close to the middle of the turnpike as possible because you will be charged the maximum toll for the exit.

Quote from: Mr. Matté on October 27, 2016, 06:49:14 PM

Quote from: roadman on October 27, 2016, 03:55:24 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 27, 2016, 03:27:49 PM
Tarp blew off one sign west of Auburn, sign read

   Electronic Toll Ahead

   No transponder?
   No problem.

   We will bill you.

FIFY

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fnv3TqEb.jpg&hash=32f6f34713c629e835cd5825f76f4df2d04d5eb4)

MassDOT will be offering a 'grace period' for drivers without an E-ZPass:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-announces-grace-period-as-electronic-tolling-is-activated/
(http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-announces-grace-period-as-electronic-tolling-is-activated/)

Quote from: bob7374 on October 28, 2016, 10:50:52 AM
MassDOT will be offering a 'grace period' for drivers without an E-ZPass:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-announces-grace-period-as-electronic-tolling-is-activated/
(http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-announces-grace-period-as-electronic-tolling-is-activated/)

You are correct to put 'grace period' in quotes - because it's NOT a grace period.  It's actually a credit of the pay-by-plate fee if a person gets a transponder within the six month period after AET is activated.  Wonder how many people won't even bother with that and just pay the extra fee?

I was surprised to read recently that after a lot of downward adjustment, the savings from this will only be $5 million a year.  While I still support this project, that seems like a real screwup. 

Something else I thought about yesterday while getting a last look is that I hope there is pricing information posted at the gantries.  One thing that has happened with electronic tolling is that people get a lot less info on what they are paying than was the case before. If this were the private sector, I would expect this would not be tolerated. 

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 28, 2016, 12:17:34 PM
I was surprised to read recently that after a lot of downward adjustment, the savings from this will only be $5 million a year.  While I still support this project, that seems like a real screwup. 

Something else I thought about yesterday while getting a last look is that I hope there is pricing information posted at the gantries.  One thing that has happened with electronic tolling is that people get a lot less info on what they are paying than was the case before. If this were the private sector, I would expect this would not be tolerated.

My feeling is that not knowing travel cost is actually a desired element of all this. I don't think EZpass displays the charge at the booth as well (maybe it is not yet calculated at that point, but still)

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 28, 2016, 12:17:34 PM
I was surprised to read recently that after a lot of downward adjustment, the savings from this will only be $5 million a year.  While I still support this project, that seems like a real screwup. 

Something else I thought about yesterday while getting a last look is that I hope there is pricing information posted at the gantries.

Signs indicating the 2 axle toll rates (MA E-Z Pass, Other E-Z Pass, Pay By Plate) will be posted in the vicinity of each gantry.

QuoteOne thing that has happened with electronic tolling is that people get a lot less info on what they are paying than was the case before. If this were the private sector, I would expect this would not be tolerated.

Really?  Supermarkets and convenience stores no longer put price tags on individual items - Massachusetts was the last state to drop that requirement, because the lobby representing the supermarkets and convenience stores asked for it.

Quote from: roadman on October 28, 2016, 12:32:53 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 28, 2016, 12:17:34 PM
I was surprised to read recently that after a lot of downward adjustment, the savings from this will only be $5 million a year.  While I still support this project, that seems like a real screwup. 

Something else I thought about yesterday while getting a last look is that I hope there is pricing information posted at the gantries.  One thing that has happened with electronic tolling is that people get a lot less info on what they are paying than was the case before. If this were the private sector, I would expect this would not be tolerated. 

Signs indicating the 2 axle toll rates (MA E-Z Pass, Other E-Z Pass, Pay By Plate) will be posted in the vicinity of each gantry.

I'm glad to hear that.

Quote from: roadman on October 28, 2016, 12:32:53 PM

QuoteOne thing that has happened with electronic tolling is that people get a lot less info on what they are paying than was the case before. If this were the private sector, I would expect this would not be tolerated.

Really?  Supermarkets and convenience stores no longer put price tags on individual items - Massachusetts was the last state to drop that requirement, because the lobby representing the supermarkets and convenience stores asked for it.

Well, I can see putting a sticker on each package as an issue, but 99% chance that there is a pricing sticker on the shelf nearby, you only need to look around. Usually price of individual item is also displayed as it gets scanned at the register. And you get a check with individual prices printed - right after you check out.

That is highly unlike EZpass experience, where you need to login into account to get any information.

Quote from: roadman on October 28, 2016, 12:32:53 PMReally?  Supermarkets and convenience stores no longer put price tags on individual items - Massachusetts was the last state to drop that requirement, because the lobby representing the supermarkets and convenience stores asked for it.

Really.  Supermarkets label the shelf.  The price is not invisible like it is to E-ZPass users at many toll facilities. 

And the toll road scenario is much more akin to having no price and no display on the register, only a card swipe with a cashier saying "Oh, just go online, there's a series of drop-down menus there with prices, or you can just check your statement."

Many bars and restaurants don't list beer and drink prices on their menus.

It's virtually impossible to list electronic toll pricing. Most non-regular motorists on a turnpike toll ticket highway didn't understand toll ticket pricing anyway, and when they exit they just hand the ticket to the toll worker to find out how much they have to pay.

I'll defer to your experience about consumer interest/understanding, but as for "virtually impossible," this is the kind of language that was used regarding AET in Mass. 7 or 8 years ago.  It's all a matter of where technology, economics, and political will come together.

When transponders become embedded in cars–if the technology doesn't leapfrog that step–there is no reason it couldn't be made a requirement that the toll be displayed on screen. 

What it comes down to for me is that toll increases can go from one hard-to-conceive high price to a hard-to-conceive higher price without much notice. 

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 29, 2016, 01:09:48 AM
I'll defer to your experience about consumer interest/understanding, but as for "virtually impossible," this is the kind of language that was used regarding AET in Mass. 7 or 8 years ago.  It's all a matter of where technology, economics, and political will come together.

When transponders become embedded in cars–if the technology doesn't leapfrog that step–there is no reason it couldn't be made a requirement that the toll be displayed on screen. 

What it comes down to for me is that toll increases can go from one hard-to-conceive high price to a hard-to-conceive higher price without much notice. 

Unless the vehicle knows in advance where you're going to exit, it will only give you the price after-the-fact anyway.

And if driverless cars become the norm, the next complaint will be cars are driving the long way on toll roads just to rack up higher payments.  Again, based on experience, human drivers tend to do that themselves without even realizing it.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 29, 2016, 08:22:58 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 29, 2016, 01:09:48 AM
I'll defer to your experience about consumer interest/understanding, but as for "virtually impossible," this is the kind of language that was used regarding AET in Mass. 7 or 8 years ago.  It's all a matter of where technology, economics, and political will come together.

When transponders become embedded in cars–if the technology doesn't leapfrog that step–there is no reason it couldn't be made a requirement that the toll be displayed on screen. 

What it comes down to for me is that toll increases can go from one hard-to-conceive high price to a hard-to-conceive higher price without much notice. 

Unless the vehicle knows in advance where you're going to exit, it will only give you the price after-the-fact anyway.

And if driverless cars become the norm, the next complaint will be cars are driving the long way on toll roads just to rack up higher payments.  Again, based on experience, human drivers tend to do that themselves without even realizing it.

If we're talking about fixed-price gantries like those installed on MassPike, then type of passing vehicle is the only unknown.
I can think of next-gen ezpass being interactive and displaying some information. Would require a bit more battery, though. In a world of cell phones requiring daily recharge that wouldn't be a super-issue.. However, stickers are the new norm, and making them interactive is more difficult.

http://fox61.com/2016/10/27/big-changes-on-the-mass-pike-everything-you-need-to-know/

There was this piece aired on Saturday morning via WTIC-TV (FOX) channel 61 of Hartford. The reporter alluded to Sturbridge, but the toll plaza shown in the piece is clearly Exit 8 (MA Route 32) in Palmer.

The Pennsylvania Turnpike doesn't list their prices any more on their tickets.  They got tired of printing new ones with each annual toll increase.  The Thruway also no longer prints out separate tickets for each vehicle class, so all the tickets have the prices for class 2L and not for trucks/busses/trailers.

There's certainly no reason why any toll system that is based solely on per-gantry tolling (i.e. without tracking entrances and exits with a virtual "ticket") can't post toll rates on a sign by or before the gantry. TxDOT posts the applicable rates for several vehicle classes on TX 45 Southeast (https://www.google.com/maps/@30.096267,-97.7678233,3a,75y,132.24h,101.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s6Xt4Ie-micefhlhJvFVsTg!2e0!5s20130901T000000!7i13312!8i6656), for example.

Quote from: lordsutch on October 29, 2016, 11:33:52 PM
There's certainly no reason why any toll system that is based solely on per-gantry tolling (i.e. without tracking entrances and exits with a virtual "ticket") can't post toll rates on a sign by or before the gantry. TxDOT posts the applicable rates for several vehicle classes on TX 45 Southeast (https://www.google.com/maps/@30.096267,-97.7678233,3a,75y,132.24h,101.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s6Xt4Ie-micefhlhJvFVsTg!2e0!5s20130901T000000!7i13312!8i6656), for example.

I was going to mention Texas. Really not that hard to post signs before each gantry unless the fare structure is really convoluted and even then most vehicles fall in one of three categories (passenger, 3 axle box truck/bus, 5 axle semi).

Pretty much all of the tolled express lane setups I have come across feature pricing on signs. I am aware that those rates can sometimes change due to congestion or other factors, but it doesn't seem like that would be too hard to implement in this case.

Well, at 5:00 this morning the center of the Weston tolls was already demolished.  All signage on the booths had black covering over them.  The BYSes saying "TOLL PLAZA AHEAD" have been edited to read "PLAZA AHEAD."  "Pay by plate" signs are all unfurled. 

Brave new world!

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 30, 2016, 08:16:12 PM
Well, at 5:00 this morning the center of the Weston tolls was already demolished.

That was fast.

Quote from: cl94 on October 30, 2016, 08:38:00 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 30, 2016, 08:16:12 PM
Well, at 5:00 this morning the center of the Weston tolls was already demolished.

That was fast.

Right?  This and Allston are the big bottlenecks so they must be getting the immediate attention.  I saw lights and trucks at other toll plazas but none were in such accelerated progress.

MassDOT on social media shows large portion of Sturbridge down Sunday night, and some (or all) of West Stockbridge.

Quote from: cl94 on October 30, 2016, 08:38:00 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 30, 2016, 08:16:12 PM
Well, at 5:00 this morning the center of the Weston tolls was already demolished.

That was fast.

That was fast. I went through Saturday evening around 7 PM and they had barrier in place, but the booths were still standing and no work was actively going on.

The VSWS (very small white sign) posted at the gantry on the Pike WB between the former Weston tolls and the MA 30 exit says 25 cents for MA EZ-Pass, 35 cents for other EZ-Pass, and 60 cents for pay by plate.

Taking down the canopies / booths themselves is probably the easy part, it's the demoltion/refilling of the underground tunnels that will take a little bit since there's probably some hazardous materials down there.

Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 31, 2016, 11:02:04 AM
Taking down the canopies / booths themselves is probably the easy part, it's the demoltion/refilling of the underground tunnels that will take a little bit since there's probably some hazardous materials down there.

True. I was also thinking they are almost certainly using concrete in some capacity and it takes time to cure before live traffic goes over it.

There's almost definitely asbestos in there, but most of the filling is probably backfill.

MassDOT flyover of Allston.  Mainline booths seem to be gone.

https://instagram.com/p/BMO33THlwfF/

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 31, 2016, 12:19:23 PM
MassDOT flyover of Allston.  Mainline booths seem to be gone.

https://instagram.com/p/BMO33THlwfF/

The middle booths and canopies are gone, but the dividers are still in place.

Quote from: roadman on October 31, 2016, 12:27:09 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 31, 2016, 12:19:23 PM
MassDOT flyover of Allston.  Mainline booths seem to be gone.

https://instagram.com/p/BMO33THlwfF/

The middle booths and canopies are gone, but the dividers are still in place.

The center booths for the ramps to and from I-95/128 were gone by noon yesterday. Here's a view passing through about that time from I-90 East:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016nn.JPG&hash=a1364ee8d77648000aa650a9fca5b0e6f3dadf57)

In addition to the toll plaza demolition, new signage has gone up at entrance ramps indicating payment is either by E-ZPass or Pay by Plate, here's the sign if accessing the Pike Eastbound from MA 30:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016bb.JPG&hash=e42d1bb1b4abce087a03a1385b74c398d5940541)

Other images of demolition progress and new signage can be found on my I-90 in Mass. Photo Page:
http://www.gribblenation.net/mass21/i90photos.html#aet (http://www.gribblenation.net/mass21/i90photos.html#aet)

The booths and canopies at West Stockbridge and Millbury (Exit 11) are totally gone.   As are the ones at Natick and Framingham.

Here's the latest from MassDOT regarding the demolition project and number of transactions since electronic tolling was activated on Friday:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/toll-demolition-proceeding-as-scheduled/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/toll-demolition-proceeding-as-scheduled/)

It includes a paragraph explaining why stopping at a toll booth now is 'strongly discouraged.'

I passed through earlier this morning and Sturbridge is completely gone above ground except for the concrete lane dividers on the outer six lanes. The tunnel in the center section has been excavated back to bare earth.

At the Weston to/from 128 plaza, the outer booths remain, but the center section is already both demoed and repaved!  I get the feeling there was not a lot of remediation necessary in those tunnels after all.

Traffic at the Weston toll plaza has been shifted onto the newly repaved center section as of 6:30 AM today.

Quote from: bob7374 on October 31, 2016, 03:00:51 PM
In addition to the toll plaza demolition, new signage has gone up at entrance ramps indicating payment is either by E-ZPass or Pay by Plate, here's the sign if accessing the Pike Eastbound from MA 30:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016bb.JPG&hash=e42d1bb1b4abce087a03a1385b74c398d5940541)

What's up with the ugly font for "Boston"?

Quote from: southshore720 on November 01, 2016, 10:49:18 AM

Quote from: bob7374 on October 31, 2016, 03:00:51 PM
In addition to the toll plaza demolition, new signage has gone up at entrance ramps indicating payment is either by E-ZPass or Pay by Plate, here's the sign if accessing the Pike Eastbound from MA 30:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016bb.JPG&hash=e42d1bb1b4abce087a03a1385b74c398d5940541)

What's up with the ugly font for "Boston"?

Series 'D' mixed case

On I-93 southbound in Wilmington the other night, I noted the 'permanent portable' VMS at Route 62 was reading

NEW             TOLL
TRAFFIC        BOOTH
PATTERN       DEMO

Very odd message for that location, if you ask me.

Booths at Stockbridge and Lee are both completely down with no evidence other than outbuildings visible from a car at either. An AET info sign was placed west of Exit B3 as well as a supplemental "last exit before toll". New signage appears to be up at all of the entrance ramps.

That being said, MassDOT posted an update on Facebook this morning (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/toll-demolition-milestones-to-be-reached/). The first phase of demolition at Lee, Millbury 11 and Ted Williams will be done by the end of today. Westfield will be done tomorrow. These 4 sites will move right to Phase 2 and traffic will likely shift within the next week. Stockbridge, West Springfield, Palmer, Sturbridge, Auburn and Millbury 10A should be done within the next few days. Overall, almost every location is well ahead of schedule.

You gotta wonder whether the planners at MassDOT overestimated the Phase 1 time frame on purpose...otherwise known as managing expectations.   :)

Quote from: SidS1045 on November 04, 2016, 09:48:59 PM
You gotta wonder whether the planners at MassDOT overestimated the Phase 1 time frame on purpose...otherwise known as managing expectations.   :)

I prefer the TNG version myself.  :spin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xRqXYsksFg

As do I, but I couldn't find it at the time.

More signage

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5721/30978819601_ed62ff562d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PcuxMk)New I-90 Mass Pike sign off Exit 2. Note: the new EZ-PASS electronic tolling banner. October 2016, was the end of toll booths along the Mass Pike. (https://flic.kr/p/PcuxMk) by mergingtraffic (https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/), on Flickr

and the temp end of the Mass Pike, is now all dirt piles and other construction debris, just beyond reach of this photo.
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5766/30982569581_753a56a383_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PcPLwa)

During the Thanksgiving week; I had an opportunity to use the Pike w/the new AET set-up.  I have a couple comments regarding signage:

1.  The signs listing the tolls rates should be placed before the AET gantries and not after.  While the posted rates aren't going to cause one to turn around; it's a matter of principle and decency to post the toll rates prior to passing through them.  IIRC, the southbound Tobin Bridge AET erected earlier has the toll information signs erected prior to the gantry.

2.  The signs displaying the above are too small for high-speed traffic to read (remember, people aren't stopping nor slowing down to 15 mph anymore to pass through these gantries).  Such should be at least twice the size of what's out in the field.  Again, the southbound Tobin Bridge toll signage was large enough to read at normal speeds.

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 28, 2016, 12:18:44 PM
During the Thanksgiving week; I had an opportunity to use the Pike w/the new AET set-up.  I have a couple comments regarding signage:

1.  The signs listing the tolls rates should be placed before the AET gantries and not after.  While the posted rates aren't going to cause one to turn around; it's a matter of principle and decency to post the toll rates prior to passing through them.  IIRC, the southbound Tobin Bridge AET erected earlier has the toll information signs erected prior to the gantry.

2.  The signs displaying the above are too small for high-speed traffic to read (remember, people aren't stopping nor slowing down to 15 mph anymore to pass through these gantries).  Such should be at least twice the size of what's out in the field.  Again, the southbound Tobin Bridge toll signage was large enough to read at normal speeds.

Here's a photo of one of the gantry signs taken earlier in late October:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016oo.JPG&hash=fff7111bb9562e81dd17c27d17802a891a0f2b04)

Quote from: bob7374 on November 28, 2016, 06:21:40 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 28, 2016, 12:18:44 PM
During the Thanksgiving week; I had an opportunity to use the Pike w/the new AET set-up.  I have a couple comments regarding signage:

1.  The signs listing the tolls rates should be placed before the AET gantries and not after.  While the posted rates aren't going to cause one to turn around; it's a matter of principle and decency to post the toll rates prior to passing through them.  IIRC, the southbound Tobin Bridge AET erected earlier has the toll information signs erected prior to the gantry.

2.  The signs displaying the above are too small for high-speed traffic to read (remember, people aren't stopping nor slowing down to 15 mph anymore to pass through these gantries).  Such should be at least twice the size of what's out in the field.  Again, the southbound Tobin Bridge toll signage was large enough to read at normal speeds.

Here's a photo of one of the gantry signs taken earlier in late October:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016oo.JPG&hash=fff7111bb9562e81dd17c27d17802a891a0f2b04)

Which gantry location is that?  The ones between Sturbridge and Weston in both directions had those signs posted beyond the gantry.  If that photo is of one of those; the sign has since been (unwisely) moved.

Either way, the sign is still too small given the average speed of the traffic.  One can't really read the sign until just before one passes it.

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 29, 2016, 08:28:54 AM

Quote from: bob7374 on November 28, 2016, 06:21:40 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 28, 2016, 12:18:44 PM
During the Thanksgiving week; I had an opportunity to use the Pike w/the new AET set-up.  I have a couple comments regarding signage:

1.  The signs listing the tolls rates should be placed before the AET gantries and not after.  While the posted rates aren't going to cause one to turn around; it's a matter of principle and decency to post the toll rates prior to passing through them.  IIRC, the southbound Tobin Bridge AET erected earlier has the toll information signs erected prior to the gantry.

2.  The signs displaying the above are too small for high-speed traffic to read (remember, people aren't stopping nor slowing down to 15 mph anymore to pass through these gantries).  Such should be at least twice the size of what's out in the field.  Again, the southbound Tobin Bridge toll signage was large enough to read at normal speeds.

Here's a photo of one of the gantry signs taken earlier in late October:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.net%2Fmass21%2Fi90toll1016oo.JPG&hash=fff7111bb9562e81dd17c27d17802a891a0f2b04)

Which gantry location is that?  The ones between Sturbridge and Weston in both directions had those signs posted beyond the gantry.  If that photo is of one of those; the sign has since been (unwisely) moved.

Either way, the sign is still too small given the average speed of the traffic.  One can't really read the sign until just before one passes it.

This was the Weston gantry heading east toward I-95/128. Is interesting if they did move it, perhaps they thought the sign location before the gantries was only encouraging more people to incorrectly slow down, which I noticed when I passed by the location. That was though only a couple days after they activated the AET system.

Quote from: bob7374 on November 29, 2016, 10:37:27 AMThis was the Weston gantry heading east toward I-95/128. Is interesting if they did move it, perhaps they thought the sign location before the gantries was only encouraging more people to incorrectly slow down, which I noticed when I passed by the location. That was though only a couple days after they activated the AET system.

The sign at that location was indeed moved.  I was on that eastbound stretch twice last week (Sunday night /Nov. 20 & Thanksgiving evening/Nov. 24).

While your stated reason could be a reason for the signs to be moved; such would be an over-reaction IMHO for a short-term (getting accustomed to) transition.  Another reason for motorists slowing down could be due to the small size of those signs (one only can read them at a blink-of-an-eye while moving at highway speeds).  Larger sized signs, like the ones recently posted for the southbound Tobin Bridge & the Tappan Zee Bridge would solve that problem.

Why even post the signs? You're getting billed by mail. "TOLL" is all you need there.

Quote from: Alps on November 29, 2016, 08:49:34 PM
Why even post the signs? You're getting billed by mail. "TOLL" is all you need there.

Perhaps it has something to do with the huge stink the media made when the final toll rates were first announced - and the fact that the overall "per mile" toll you pay varies depending on which section of the Pike you drive.  Of course, nobody has bothered to question why MassDOT chose to set the current system up as a group of independent barrier tolls instead of mimicking the previous ticket system - which IMO would have made far more sense.

Quote from: roadman on November 30, 2016, 09:32:24 AM

Quote from: Alps on November 29, 2016, 08:49:34 PM
Why even post the signs? You're getting billed by mail. "TOLL" is all you need there.

Perhaps it has something to do with the huge stink the media made when the final toll rates were first announced - and the fact that the overall "per mile" toll you pay varies depending on which section of the Pike you drive.  Of course, nobody has bothered to question why MassDOT chose to set the current system up as a group of independent barrier tolls instead of mimicking the previous ticket system - which IMO would have made far more sense.

To supplement Roadman's response & as observed on other mainline-located AET facilities (Tobin Bridge, Tappan Zee Bridge, PA Turnpike just prior to the Delaware River), the toll rates are at a set price(s) and one should have the right to know what they're being charged prior to the gantry regardless of whether they're billed by mail or E-Z Pass.  As I stated earlier; it's a matter of principle & common decency (not to mention good business practice).

Roadman, IIRC, one reason for the current AET setup was to allow local users in the Worcester & Springfield areas to use short stretches of the Pike at no charge.  Such may have been used as a marketing tool to gain support for the changeover.

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 30, 2016, 09:36:33 AM
Roadman, IIRC, one reason for the current AET setup was to allow local users in the Worcester & Springfield areas to use short stretches of the Pike at no charge.  Such may have been used as a marketing tool to gain support for the changeover.

That is correct.  However, it seems to me that a "pseudo-ticket" system based on "Enter at Interchange X, Exit at Interchange Y, toll charge $0.00" would have been easy enough to implement.

It would have been.  That's what the Thruway does when going to/from exit 25A to/from exits 24, 25, or 26 due to the decision not to extend I-88 to Troy as originally planned (note that there IS a toll between exits 24 and 25 as well as between exits 25 and 26).

Not having the AET equipment at every exit in the Springfield and Worcester areas made installation cheaper. A lot cheaper.

This reminds me of the way MD-200 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Route_200) is set up.  Except MD-200 has a gantry on the mainline between every exit, which from what I'm reading the Mass Pike does not have?  I don't live in Mass anymore so I haven't had a chance to look at the Pike since the transition to AET.

Quote from: tckma on November 30, 2016, 02:41:17 PM
This reminds me of the way MD-200 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Route_200) is set up.  Except MD-200 has a gantry on the mainline between every exit, which from what I'm reading the Mass Pike does not have?  I don't live in Mass anymore so I haven't had a chance to look at the Pike since the transition to AET.

It's between most exits, but exits 4-7 are free.

Quote from: 1 on November 30, 2016, 02:43:45 PM

Quote from: tckma on November 30, 2016, 02:41:17 PM
This reminds me of the way MD-200 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Route_200) is set up.  Except MD-200 has a gantry on the mainline between every exit, which from what I'm reading the Mass Pike does not have?  I don't live in Mass anymore so I haven't had a chance to look at the Pike since the transition to AET.

It's between most exits, but exits 4-7 are free.

4-7 and one stretch near Worcester is free. Not enough trips at the low rate to justify installation and they're trying to reduce traffic on local roads. Conversely, a formerly free section inside 128 is now tolled because they want to stop people for hopping on the Pike for one exit.

Quote from: cl94 on November 30, 2016, 02:45:27 PM4-7 and one stretch near Worcester is free.

The free stretch in the Worcester area is between Exits 10 & 11 (with Exit 10A located in between).

Quote from: 1 on November 30, 2016, 02:43:45 PM

Quote from: tckma on November 30, 2016, 02:41:17 PM
This reminds me of the way MD-200 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Route_200) is set up.  Except MD-200 has a gantry on the mainline between every exit, which from what I'm reading the Mass Pike does not have?  I don't live in Mass anymore so I haven't had a chance to look at the Pike since the transition to AET.

It's between most exits, but exits 4-7 are free.

You mean exists 1-6, don't you?

Quote from: tckma on November 30, 2016, 03:54:32 PM

Quote from: 1 on November 30, 2016, 02:43:45 PM

Quote from: tckma on November 30, 2016, 02:41:17 PM
This reminds me of the way MD-200 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Route_200) is set up.  Except MD-200 has a gantry on the mainline between every exit, which from what I'm reading the Mass Pike does not have?  I don't live in Mass anymore so I haven't had a chance to look at the Pike since the transition to AET.

It's between most exits, but exits 4-7 are free.

You mean exists 1-6, don't you?

Nope.  Tolls were re-established along that stretch about 3 years ago.

Between exits 10 and 11 is also free.

Quote from: Beeper1 on November 30, 2016, 04:41:24 PM
Between exits 10 and 11 is also free.

Already mentioned.  See Reply #173 on the previous page (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18134.150) of this thread.

I can't confirm this, because I have only been west of Lee since the changeover, but how the toll is shown on my statement makes it appear that they're just going to say the first gantry and the last gantry you pass in a single line (looks like a ticket system entry) instead of an individual line for each barrier.

Quote from: cl94 on November 30, 2016, 06:01:22 PM
I can't confirm this, because I have only been west of Lee since the changeover, but how the toll is shown on my statement makes it appear that they're just going to say the first gantry and the last gantry you pass in a single line (looks like a ticket system entry) instead of an individual line for each barrier.

I just checked my E-Z Pass transaction record for my Thanksgiving week trips (I drove from Sturbridge to Weston) and noticed similar.

To add, the gantry listings on my statement are listed as Massachusetts DOT - XXX under the Entry and Exit headings. 

My eastbound Sturbridge to Weston trip list 083 and 120 for the respective first (Entry) and final (Exit) gantries I passed through.  I'm assuming that those numbers correspond to the mile markers.

My westbound Weston to Sturbridge trip list 620 and 583 for the respective first (Entry) and final (Exit) gantries I passed through.  As a means of distinguishing the eastbound gantries from the westbound gantries; the numbers for the latter correspond to the mile markers +500.

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 30, 2016, 09:36:33 AM

Quote from: roadman on November 30, 2016, 09:32:24 AM

Quote from: Alps on November 29, 2016, 08:49:34 PM
Why even post the signs? You're getting billed by mail. "TOLL" is all you need there.

Perhaps it has something to do with the huge stink the media made when the final toll rates were first announced - and the fact that the overall "per mile" toll you pay varies depending on which section of the Pike you drive.  Of course, nobody has bothered to question why MassDOT chose to set the current system up as a group of independent barrier tolls instead of mimicking the previous ticket system - which IMO would have made far more sense.

To supplement Roadman's response & as observed on other mainline-located AET facilities (Tobin Bridge, Tappan Zee Bridge, PA Turnpike just prior to the Delaware River), the toll rates are at a set price(s) and one should have the right to know what they're being charged prior to the gantry regardless of whether they're billed by mail or E-Z Pass.  As I stated earlier; it's a matter of principle & common decency (not to mention good business practice).

Conversely, I look at it as a relic of the system when you needed to know how much money to take out, and now people are coming up with reasons to back-justify keeping the rate around. If toll highways were invented with automatic toll collection/billing capabilities, it's plausible they never would have posted rates.

Quote from: Alps on November 30, 2016, 06:54:28 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 30, 2016, 09:36:33 AM

Quote from: roadman on November 30, 2016, 09:32:24 AM

Quote from: Alps on November 29, 2016, 08:49:34 PM
Why even post the signs? You're getting billed by mail. "TOLL" is all you need there.

Perhaps it has something to do with the huge stink the media made when the final toll rates were first announced - and the fact that the overall "per mile" toll you pay varies depending on which section of the Pike you drive.  Of course, nobody has bothered to question why MassDOT chose to set the current system up as a group of independent barrier tolls instead of mimicking the previous ticket system - which IMO would have made far more sense.

To supplement Roadman's response & as observed on other mainline-located AET facilities (Tobin Bridge, Tappan Zee Bridge, PA Turnpike just prior to the Delaware River), the toll rates are at a set price(s) and one should have the right to know what they're being charged prior to the gantry regardless of whether they're billed by mail or E-Z Pass.  As I stated earlier; it's a matter of principle & common decency (not to mention good business practice).

Conversely, I look at it as a relic of the system when you needed to know how much money to take out, and now people are coming up with reasons to back-justify keeping the rate around. If toll highways were invented with automatic toll collection/billing capabilities, it's plausible they never would have posted rates.

And given that most people pay with some sort of card, grocery stores may stop posting prices... Gas stations should also be allowed not to post any rates... Right?

The tolls should be posted, but unless you remember what each barrier was while driving, it's probably going to be hard to know exactly what it is. I believe those signs should be larger and better posted.

For EZpass users, it's about the same, but for cash users it will definitely be a change.

Quote from: kalvado on November 30, 2016, 07:55:16 PM

Quote from: Alps on November 30, 2016, 06:54:28 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 30, 2016, 09:36:33 AM

Quote from: roadman on November 30, 2016, 09:32:24 AM

Quote from: Alps on November 29, 2016, 08:49:34 PM
Why even post the signs? You're getting billed by mail. "TOLL" is all you need there.

Perhaps it has something to do with the huge stink the media made when the final toll rates were first announced - and the fact that the overall "per mile" toll you pay varies depending on which section of the Pike you drive.  Of course, nobody has bothered to question why MassDOT chose to set the current system up as a group of independent barrier tolls instead of mimicking the previous ticket system - which IMO would have made far more sense.

To supplement Roadman's response & as observed on other mainline-located AET facilities (Tobin Bridge, Tappan Zee Bridge, PA Turnpike just prior to the Delaware River), the toll rates are at a set price(s) and one should have the right to know what they're being charged prior to the gantry regardless of whether they're billed by mail or E-Z Pass.  As I stated earlier; it's a matter of principle & common decency (not to mention good business practice).

Conversely, I look at it as a relic of the system when you needed to know how much money to take out, and now people are coming up with reasons to back-justify keeping the rate around. If toll highways were invented with automatic toll collection/billing capabilities, it's plausible they never would have posted rates.

And given that most people pay with some sort of card, grocery stores may stop posting prices... Gas stations should also be allowed not to post any rates... Right?

Those are choices you make based on the posted rate. The toll road, you're already on it. You could post a series of signs at entrances or at intervals along the road with an approximate rate.

Quote from: Alps on December 01, 2016, 12:07:00 AM

Quote from: kalvado on November 30, 2016, 07:55:16 PM
And given that most people pay with some sort of card, grocery stores may stop posting prices... Gas stations should also be allowed not to post any rates... Right?

Those are choices you make based on the posted rate. The toll road, you're already on it. You could post a series of signs at entrances or at intervals along the road with an approximate rate.

I would say that the fact I am on the road doesn't mean I cannot take the next exit and shunpike. Or that I will be driving same toll road on return. Or that I wouldn't be hit with a nasty surprise at the end of the month when the bill comes in.

I believe providing price - or estimate - upfront is a matter of business ethics when dealing with regular consumer, and doing otherwise is a sign of fraud. And I am always irritated with Thruway approach to EZpass billing, when toll is not known for several days after the fact - even as I know approximate toll way beforehand.

Quote from: Alps on December 01, 2016, 12:07:00 AM

Quote from: kalvado on November 30, 2016, 07:55:16 PM

Quote from: Alps on November 30, 2016, 06:54:28 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 30, 2016, 09:36:33 AM

Quote from: roadman on November 30, 2016, 09:32:24 AM

Quote from: Alps on November 29, 2016, 08:49:34 PM
Why even post the signs? You're getting billed by mail. "TOLL" is all you need there.

Perhaps it has something to do with the huge stink the media made when the final toll rates were first announced - and the fact that the overall "per mile" toll you pay varies depending on which section of the Pike you drive.  Of course, nobody has bothered to question why MassDOT chose to set the current system up as a group of independent barrier tolls instead of mimicking the previous ticket system - which IMO would have made far more sense.

To supplement Roadman's response & as observed on other mainline-located AET facilities (Tobin Bridge, Tappan Zee Bridge, PA Turnpike just prior to the Delaware River), the toll rates are at a set price(s) and one should have the right to know what they're being charged prior to the gantry regardless of whether they're billed by mail or E-Z Pass.  As I stated earlier; it's a matter of principle & common decency (not to mention good business practice).

Conversely, I look at it as a relic of the system when you needed to know how much money to take out, and now people are coming up with reasons to back-justify keeping the rate around. If toll highways were invented with automatic toll collection/billing capabilities, it's plausible they never would have posted rates.

And given that most people pay with some sort of card, grocery stores may stop posting prices... Gas stations should also be allowed not to post any rates... Right?

Those are choices you make based on the posted rate. The toll road, you're already on it. You could post a series of signs at entrances or at intervals along the road with an approximate rate.

You could post that before the option to enter, which is the reasonable thing to do (few transactions I can think of involve announcing the price after the purchase had been committed to). 

If we're tossing that idea, there are fewer gantries than entrances.  It's cheaper to post the rate at the gantry.

Given the general newness of this method of tolling in the US, I figure adjustments in approach will be made.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 01, 2016, 12:53:17 AM
Given the general newness of this method of tolling in the US, I figure adjustments in approach will be made.

General newness...In Mass.

It's been used for years elsewhere within the United States.

And EZ Pass tolling itself has been used for 15 - 20 years within the states where one doesn't know their exact toll. 

Quote from: cl94 on November 30, 2016, 06:01:22 PM
I can't confirm this, because I have only been west of Lee since the changeover, but how the toll is shown on my statement makes it appear that they're just going to say the first gantry and the last gantry you pass in a single line (looks like a ticket system entry) instead of an individual line for each barrier.

Similar to what I've seen on my whopping two trips along MD-200 since it opened (it really IS a useless road).  My E-Z Pass statement shows a single line listing the first and last gantries crossed.

Quote from: Alps on November 30, 2016, 06:54:28 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 30, 2016, 09:36:33 AM

Quote from: roadman on November 30, 2016, 09:32:24 AM

Quote from: Alps on November 29, 2016, 08:49:34 PM
Why even post the signs? You're getting billed by mail. "TOLL" is all you need there.

Perhaps it has something to do with the huge stink the media made when the final toll rates were first announced - and the fact that the overall "per mile" toll you pay varies depending on which section of the Pike you drive.  Of course, nobody has bothered to question why MassDOT chose to set the current system up as a group of independent barrier tolls instead of mimicking the previous ticket system - which IMO would have made far more sense.

To supplement Roadman's response & as observed on other mainline-located AET facilities (Tobin Bridge, Tappan Zee Bridge, PA Turnpike just prior to the Delaware River), the toll rates are at a set price(s) and one should have the right to know what they're being charged prior to the gantry regardless of whether they're billed by mail or E-Z Pass.  As I stated earlier; it's a matter of principle & common decency (not to mention good business practice).

Conversely, I look at it as a relic of the system when you needed to know how much money to take out, and now people are coming up with reasons to back-justify keeping the rate around. If toll highways were invented with automatic toll collection/billing capabilities, it's plausible they never would have posted rates.

No.  Regardless of whether I'm paying for ANYthing by cash, credit card, debit card, E-ZPass, or wampum... I have a right to know how much I will be charged BEFORE I spend the money.  That's how a free market economy works.  If a consumer isn't willing to pay, they'll get the service elsewhere (shunpike).  Most toll roads' websites these days have a toll calculator you can use based on entry and exit points to show how much you will be charged before your trip, if not even explicitly publishing things like "the toll rate is x cents per mile per axle."  On systems with variable toll rates, such as MD-200, or the Lexus Lanes on the I-495 Capital Beltway, I-95 in Northern Virginia, and the pointless new HOT lanes on I-95 north of Baltimore, there are signs displaying the toll rate BEFORE you drive into the tolled section and have to make a choice whether it's worth it to pay the toll or not -- and those rates are guaranteed to you at the time of entry.  Additionally, these areas have signage on the road showing tolls to upcoming sections near where there's a choice to exit the tolled section or not.

Similarly, when I recently took a business trip to California, I used posted toll rates on websites such as http://www.thetollroads.com to inform my decision whether to open a Fast Track account before my trip, buy a Fast Track tag once in CA, or screw it and pay by plate with the rental car.  I chose to open a Fast Track account before I left for CA and mail back the transponder and close my account after I came back, as this was the lowest cost option in case my company decided to be cheap and not reimburse me for tolls incurred during my trip.  (They did reimburse me, but it was a worry of mine, as they still haven't fully paid my AMEX bill two months later even with an approved expense report.)

Posting the toll rates right before or right after the gantry, when you've already committed, is kind of stupid if they are not also posted at decision points along the road.  I'm fine with the signs being there as reminders in case you've forgotten the rates, but as the only signage?  No.

I don't see why it matters if it is signed after the gantry. You were warned before you got on with the yellow toll banner so you committed to paying the toll already. Signing prices before toll plazas I think is mainly to tell you how much cash to get out while you are waiting or digging in your seat cushions and looking through the sticky coins in your cup holder when attempting to swerve into whatever toll lane you think is fastest. However, by the time they have posted the actual price, you are committed to the toll plaza. Prior to that point, all you see are toll banners and such but no prices.

Plus for the pike you can still go online to the toll calculator prior to the trip. Not sure how it worked for the Mass Pike, but for the NJ Turnpike once you got the ticket with the prices, you were going to pay. A U-turn at the same plaza was going to cost you the maximum price for that exit, so it would be more than going just one exit up the road.

Well, if you're on a ticket system, and find the price higher than expected, you can get off sooner than planned and shunpike the rest of the way.  On an AET road without prices listed, you can't do that since you won't know the price until several weeks after the trip is concluded.  You might even make more trips in the meantime before you even get a bill for the first one!

Imagine if you went to the grocery store, there were no prices listed.  At the checkout, they scan your items, but there is no amount owed, and instead of paying, you give them your driver's licence to scan.  Several weeks later, they mail you the bill.  Sounds crazy, but that's how we're doing toll roads now.

Quote from: vdeane on December 04, 2016, 05:02:35 PM
Well, if you're on a ticket system, and find the price higher than expected, you can get off sooner than planned and shunpike the rest of the way.  On an AET road without prices listed, you can't do that since you won't know the price until several weeks after the trip is concluded.  You might even make more trips in the meantime before you even get a bill for the first one!

Imagine if you went to the grocery store, there were no prices listed.  At the checkout, they scan your items, but there is no amount owed, and instead of paying, you give them your driver's licence to scan.  Several weeks later, they mail you the bill.  Sounds crazy, but that's how we're doing toll roads now.

I assume the only argument towards not showing prices is the fact that in most cases it costs less than cost of gas, and is very likely not a show stopper for driver. Now with $10-15 tolls for NYC bridges that becomes shaky argument.

But for me its a matter of ethics more than any practical argument.

Quote from: kalvado on December 04, 2016, 06:21:27 PM

Quote from: vdeane on December 04, 2016, 05:02:35 PM
Well, if you're on a ticket system, and find the price higher than expected, you can get off sooner than planned and shunpike the rest of the way.  On an AET road without prices listed, you can't do that since you won't know the price until several weeks after the trip is concluded.  You might even make more trips in the meantime before you even get a bill for the first one!

Imagine if you went to the grocery store, there were no prices listed.  At the checkout, they scan your items, but there is no amount owed, and instead of paying, you give them your driver's licence to scan.  Several weeks later, they mail you the bill.  Sounds crazy, but that's how we're doing toll roads now.

I assume the only argument towards not showing prices is the fact that in most cases it costs less than cost of gas, and is very likely not a show stopper for driver. Now with $10-15 tolls for NYC bridges that becomes shaky argument.

But for me its a matter of ethics more than any practical argument.

The New York bridges are the red flags that make we want openness about stating the price.  The last Port Authority toll increases were railroaded through, something that only gets easier when the public gets desensitized to what they are paying.

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 30, 2016, 06:21:53 PM

Quote from: cl94 on November 30, 2016, 06:01:22 PM
I can't confirm this, because I have only been west of Lee since the changeover, but how the toll is shown on my statement makes it appear that they're just going to say the first gantry and the last gantry you pass in a single line (looks like a ticket system entry) instead of an individual line for each barrier.

I just checked my E-Z Pass transaction record for my Thanksgiving week trips (I drove from Sturbridge to Weston) and noticed similar.

To add, the gantry listings on my statement are listed as Massachusetts DOT - XXX under the Entry and Exit headings. 

My eastbound Sturbridge to Weston trip list 083 and 120 for the respective first (Entry) and final (Exit) gantries I passed through.  I'm assuming that those numbers correspond to the mile markers.

My westbound Weston to Sturbridge trip list 620 and 583 for the respective first (Entry) and final (Exit) gantries I passed through.  As a means of distinguishing the eastbound gantries from the westbound gantries; the numbers for the latter correspond to the mile markers +500.

My travels on the Turnpike take me on both the Metropolitan Highway System portion of the Turnpike (between I-95/MA 128 and the eastern end of the Turnpike in East Boston) and the so-called "western" Turnpike (between 128 and the NY border).  MHS tolls appear on my statement as one line for each tolling point passed.  Tolls on the western Turnpike appear as yours did, with one line showing the total between entry and exit points.

I also note that MassDOT is having some issues posting tolls to E-ZPass accounts in a timely manner.  My November statement shows postings of transactions from the last few days in October, both before and after the implementation date of AET, and the latest transaction to be posted on that statement took place on 11/23.  While in the past my credit card was used to replenish the balance on the account once a month, in November that occurred nine times, sometimes on balances as low as 35 cents.  Looks like they're still working out a few kinks.

I agree that they should show the toll prices, but you're pretty much committed to the turnpike once you get in either in the ticket or AET system. There's no way to broadcast all the potential AET toll combinations (unlike a ticket), so posting the tolls at the gantries (even if the signs are bigger) seem like a formality to me. Still, they should be posted.

Quote from: SidS1045 on December 04, 2016, 11:11:45 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 30, 2016, 06:21:53 PM

Quote from: cl94 on November 30, 2016, 06:01:22 PM
I can't confirm this, because I have only been west of Lee since the changeover, but how the toll is shown on my statement makes it appear that they're just going to say the first gantry and the last gantry you pass in a single line (looks like a ticket system entry) instead of an individual line for each barrier.

I just checked my E-Z Pass transaction record for my Thanksgiving week trips (I drove from Sturbridge to Weston) and noticed similar.

To add, the gantry listings on my statement are listed as Massachusetts DOT - XXX under the Entry and Exit headings. 

My eastbound Sturbridge to Weston trip list 083 and 120 for the respective first (Entry) and final (Exit) gantries I passed through.  I'm assuming that those numbers correspond to the mile markers.

My westbound Weston to Sturbridge trip list 620 and 583 for the respective first (Entry) and final (Exit) gantries I passed through.  As a means of distinguishing the eastbound gantries from the westbound gantries; the numbers for the latter correspond to the mile markers +500.

My travels on the Turnpike take me on both the Metropolitan Highway System portion of the Turnpike (between I-95/MA 128 and the eastern end of the Turnpike in East Boston) and the so-called "western" Turnpike (between 128 and the NY border).  MHS tolls appear on my statement as one line for each tolling point passed.  Tolls on the western Turnpike appear as yours did, with one line showing the total between entry and exit points.

I also note that MassDOT is having some issues posting tolls to E-ZPass accounts in a timely manner.  My November statement shows postings of transactions from the last few days in October, both before and after the implementation date of AET, and the latest transaction to be posted on that statement took place on 11/23.  While in the past my credit card was used to replenish the balance on the account once a month, in November that occurred nine times, sometimes on balances as low as 35 cents.  Looks like they're still working out a few kinks.

MassDOT always took longer than other agencies to post tolls to the account. Even before the switch, it sometimes took a week for stuff to show up. Most states post it that day or the following day.

Quote from: kefkafloyd on December 05, 2016, 09:52:43 AM
I agree that they should show the toll prices, but you're pretty much committed to the turnpike once you get in either in the ticket or AET system. There's no way to broadcast all the potential AET toll combinations (unlike a ticket), so posting the tolls at the gantries (even if the signs are bigger) seem like a formality to me. Still, they should be posted.

My only comment, that triggered this whole discussion, was that the signs showing the toll prices should be placed prior to the gantry (they were initially) and should be bigger (easier to read at highway speeds). 

Every other agency that I'm aware of (including MassDOT at the southbound Tobin Bridge not too long ago) that does AET along the mainline corridor has done such.  I'm not suggesting a reinvention of the wheel here.

I noticed today that signs have been removed announcing a toll for the Allston "slingshot" turnoff, though the gantry is still there.

Someone should change the title of this thread to "MassPike AET Discussion".

Quote from: spooky on December 12, 2016, 07:32:17 AM
Someone should change the title of this thread to "MassPike AET Discussion".

FTFY

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 12, 2016, 11:14:31 AM

Quote from: spooky on December 12, 2016, 07:32:17 AM
Someone should change the title of this thread to "MassPike AET Discussion".

FTFY

They're the same.  I don't get it.

Mass Pike is back to being rendered as two words, no?

Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 12, 2016, 10:35:12 PM

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 12, 2016, 11:14:31 AM

Quote from: spooky on December 12, 2016, 07:32:17 AM
Someone should change the title of this thread to "MassPike AET Discussion".

FTFY

They're the same.  I don't get it.

Mass Pike is back to being rendered as two words, no?

Looks like he changed the title of his post. I think only the OP or a mod/admin can change the actual thread title.

Now that all the toll booths are gone, is there any plan to split the bridge and tunnel tolls between both directions of traffic?  I seem to recall this being discussed. There may be a small additional infrastructure cost, but for equity I think it's worth it.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 31, 2016, 10:41:01 AM
Now that all the tall boots are gone, is there any plan to split the bridge and tunnel tolls between both directions of traffic?  I seem to recall this being discussed. There may be a small additional infrastructure cost, but for equity I think it's worth it.

1. The tunnels in Boston (US 1, MA 1A) are already tolled 2-way, with the toll in between half the original toll and the full amount of the original toll. I'm not sure if I'm interpreting you correctly, though.

2. Autocorrect?

Quote from: 1 on December 31, 2016, 10:45:26 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 31, 2016, 10:41:01 AM
Now that all the tall boots are gone, is there any plan to split the bridge and tunnel tolls between both directions of traffic?  I seem to recall this being discussed. There may be a small additional infrastructure cost, but for equity I think it's worth it.

2. Autocorrect?

Why, you never saw toll boots before? Here is how it looks..
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.mlive.com%2Fcitpat%2Fnews_impact%2Fphoto%2F11724354-large.jpg&hash=4e64bcb259c5d815b521b7b94ea12bfe793b6dfe)

Quote from: 1 on December 31, 2016, 10:45:26 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 31, 2016, 10:41:01 AM
Now that all the tall boots are gone, is there any plan to split the bridge and tunnel tolls between both directions of traffic?  I seem to recall this being discussed. There may be a small additional infrastructure cost, but for equity I think it's worth it.

1. The tunnels in Boston (US 1, MA 1A) are already tolled 2-way, with the toll in between half the original toll and the full amount of the original toll. I'm not sure if I'm interpreting you correctly, though.

2. Autocorrect?

I did not realize that had already happened, and yes, lazy proofreading on my part.

Tobin also?

Although I know the free portion of the Pike was meant to be temporary, the new tolls still seem steep to me.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 31, 2016, 01:40:13 PM

Quote from: 1 on December 31, 2016, 10:45:26 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 31, 2016, 10:41:01 AM
Now that all the tall boots are gone, is there any plan to split the bridge and tunnel tolls between both directions of traffic?  I seem to recall this being discussed. There may be a small additional infrastructure cost, but for equity I think it's worth it.

1. The tunnels in Boston (US 1, MA 1A) are already tolled 2-way, with the toll in between half the original toll and the full amount of the original toll. I'm not sure if I'm interpreting you correctly, though.

2. Autocorrect?

I did not realize that had already happened, and yes, lazy proofreading on my part.

Tobin also?

Yes, the Tobin, the Sumner/Callahan, and Ted Williams are all tolled both ways now, with the one-way toll rate being exactly half the old rate.

Here's what remains of the former toll plaza for I-90/Mass Pike traffic exiting in Weston for I-95/MA 128 looked like yesterday (1/1/17):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.malmeroads.net%2Fmass21c%2Fi90toll117f.JPG&hash=23a845c643d996f8a03b8a949c118694ef62410d)

More photos of the Weston site can be found in the AET section of my I-90 in Mass. Photo Gallery, now located at my new roads site, MalmeRoads.Net:
http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/i90photos.html#aet (http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/i90photos.html#aet)

Please redirect your browsers as I will be no longer updating my sites on Gribblenation, due to it impending closure.

MassDOT has posted the presentation slides it did for a public meeting about the toll demolition project status for Exits 9 to 13. Includes photos of the current (Stage 2) conditions and the planned final appearance of each former toll plaza:
https://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/8/docs/aet/presentation_011117.pdf (https://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/8/docs/aet/presentation_011117.pdf)

Looks like they intend to keep the toll plaza admin building at the I-495 interchange.  I wonder what it will be used for?

There's still staff needed for the Turnpike, 495 is probably a good a place as any to do administrative work.

Hasn't been much visible work done at Lee or West Stockbridge since the initial demolition was finished. I drove through this afternoon and it all still looks pretty similar. Building still up at Lee, E-ZPass lanes still up in Stockbridge. There's an asinine speed limit reduction through both work zones.

Just went through there yesterday myself.  Wondering why they're making that cut into the hill beyond the old plaza site EB.  Seems unnecessary.  Never had a problem getting around slow traffic on the incline if adding a climbing lane is the idea.

The plan is to put a weigh station on the EB side at the former toll plaza site and the blasting is to provide room for the acceleration lane coming out of that.

What a waste of money.

Quote from: cl94 on January 16, 2017, 07:44:20 PM
Hasn't been much visible work done at Lee or West Stockbridge since the initial demolition was finished. I drove through this afternoon and it all still looks pretty similar. Building still up at Lee, E-ZPass lanes still up in Stockbridge. There's an asinine speed limit reduction through both work zones.

The Lee toll building is now gone as of last weekend. It was still up in late February, so it was a recent elimination.

Quote from: spooky on December 13, 2016, 09:39:45 AMLooks like he changed the title of his post. I think only the OP or a mod/admin can change the actual thread title.

I changed the subject line on my initial post, but it hasn't changed throughout the thread...yet.

Quote from: kefkafloyd on March 07, 2017, 11:24:20 AM

Quote from: cl94 on January 16, 2017, 07:44:20 PM
Hasn't been much visible work done at Lee or West Stockbridge since the initial demolition was finished. I drove through this afternoon and it all still looks pretty similar. Building still up at Lee, E-ZPass lanes still up in Stockbridge. There's an asinine speed limit reduction through both work zones.

The Lee toll building is now gone as of last weekend. It was still up in late February, so it was a recent elimination.

Here's the recently posted MassDOT presentation slides that show the progress in removing the toll plazas at Exits 1 and 2:http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/8/docs/aet/presentationD1_022317.pdf (http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/8/docs/aet/presentationD1_022317.pdf)

What's that parking area thing near exit 1?

Quote from: vdeane on March 10, 2017, 01:20:01 PM
What's that parking area thing near exit 1?

Truck inspection.

Quote from: vdeane on March 10, 2017, 01:20:01 PM
What's that parking area thing near exit 1?

You mean the truck pull-off area or the lot for the Turnpike employees?

Something that may be interesting only to me is whether or not they take down the Big Red Sign at Lee. With the new barrier up it'd be impossible to cross over after the tollbooth. It's also, AFAIK, the only Big Red Sign in all of Massachusetts.

Quote from: kefkafloyd on March 10, 2017, 03:56:48 PM
Something that may be interesting only to me is whether or not they take down the Big Red Sign at Lee. With the new barrier up it'd be impossible to cross over after the tollbooth. It's also, AFAIK, the only Big Red Sign in all of Massachusetts.

The Big Red Sign in Lee is scheduled to come down when the sign structure is removed as part of the West Stockbridge to Auburn sign replacement project presently under construction.  It will not be replaced with a new sign.

Which sign is this?

Quote from: Rothman on March 13, 2017, 09:24:44 AM
Which sign is this?

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2972465,-73.2361619,3a,75y,98.84h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbht6wFHkYP-5yASzhvSpGg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Had to bump this thread because my neighbor brought up an interesting point. This morning before dawn he had to drive the Pike from West Springfield to NY State, and he does not have EZ Pass.  I told him about toll by plate, and he mentioned that it was so foggy that he couldn't see 20 feet in front of him.  Because it was so foggy, will he get a freebie or do the transponders read plates through pea soup fog?

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on June 01, 2017, 04:44:03 PM
Had to bump this thread because my neighbor brought up an interesting point. This morning before dawn he had to drive the Pike from West Springfield to NY State, and he does not have EZ Pass.  I told him about toll by plate, and he mentioned that it was so foggy that he couldn't see 20 feet in front of him.  Because it was so foggy, will he get a freebie or do the transponders read plates through pea soup fog?

Yes. 20 feet was an exaggeration; if it was that thick, he'd have had to pull over for awhile. So the cameras will be able to see.

Quote from: Alps on June 01, 2017, 08:26:04 PM

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on June 01, 2017, 04:44:03 PM
Had to bump this thread because my neighbor brought up an interesting point. This morning before dawn he had to drive the Pike from West Springfield to NY State, and he does not have EZ Pass.  I told him about toll by plate, and he mentioned that it was so foggy that he couldn't see 20 feet in front of him.  Because it was so foggy, will he get a freebie or do the transponders read plates through pea soup fog?

Yes. 20 feet was an exaggeration; if it was that thick, he'd have had to pull over for awhile. So the cameras will be able to see.

Given the most dense fog can typically get is about 200 feet, that should be enough for those cameras to get a clear shot. Keeping in mind fog that dense is incredibly rare.

I could see the potential for either torrential rain, hail, or heavy snow from possibly interfering with it.

The cameras have some infrared sensitivity and the LED "flashes" they use take advantage of that, which helps in low-viz conditions.

In other AET news, the Sumner Tunnel plaza demolition progress has been quite fast. The plaza was torn down quite quickly in early May and they're making some good progress on the local intersection reconfiguration.

MassDOT update on AET and the toll plaza demolition project one year after AET implementation:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-one-year-anniversary-of-the-end-of-manual-toll-collections/ (http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-one-year-anniversary-of-the-end-of-manual-toll-collections/)

Yeah, I drove through the plazas at 1, 3, and 4 yesterday and it's hard to tell there was even a toll plaza at 1 and 3. 4 still has the parking lot.

What does Full Beneficial Use Milestone mean? I've never heard of that whatsoever.

I am tired of the work zone speed limit where the western MA mainline plaza was.  Last time I was through there, there was no reason for the slowdown.  Work looked totally completed.

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on October 27, 2017, 10:34:41 PM
What does Full Beneficial Use Milestone mean? I've never heard of that whatsoever.

My guess would be lanes in their final width and configuration.  Basically, everything done except punch list items, or items not directly related to the pavement itself, such as landscaping, lighting, etc.