Where exactly are they used, and how long have they been in use?
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on March 24, 2017, 12:04:15 PM
Where exactly are they used, and how long have they been in use?
They are very commonplace in the Phoenix area and are in use by most of the cities, although Mesa only installs them on a case-by-case basis. I think Phoenix itself though was a later adopter, since it's lighted street blades are in Clearview.
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on March 24, 2017, 12:04:15 PM
Where exactly are they used, and how long have they been in use?
Out in Philly, they are heavily used in the King of Prussia area, though there are a few others scattered throughout other suburbs.
Several cities here in Washington use backlit street blades. They're all relatively new installations. Some cities, like Puyallup, use fluorescent tubing (thanks for the pointer, Pink Jazz), with thicker blades. Others, like Lakewood, use LED backlighting, so the blades are thinner (photos posted respectively):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJS3Czva.png&hash=efe351f4d24e59ec07d49e58519a2e679a9dad21)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fegh1UaA.png&hash=ff91139ddc3c11f2bb61fcefe612c960cd4a8df8)
There's some in southern BC (Coquitlam):
https://goo.gl/maps/Q69cv47CNF12
https://goo.gl/maps/Tf3ARdejQTo
They're becoming more commonplace around Chicagoland as well.
https://goo.gl/maps/rE4X9PrsGUM2
https://goo.gl/maps/Pu1rRoaLE9H2
Baton Rouge has some, though they are very inconsistent on their use.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8885/28011751984_643306ac8f.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JFixX7)
Drusilla Ln at Jefferson Hwy (https://flic.kr/p/JFixX7) by Jay Bienvenu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bienvenunet/), on Flickr
Quote from: jbnv on March 25, 2017, 11:45:30 AM
Baton Rouge has some, though they are very inconsistent on their use.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8885/28011751984_643306ac8f.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JFixX7)
Drusilla Ln at Jefferson Hwy (https://flic.kr/p/JFixX7) by Jay Bienvenu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bienvenunet/), on Flickr
Hmmm... interesting yellow trim on those signals... Oh, sorry I got distracted ;-)
Most of the ones in the Dallas area have been bigger, like Jake's Fairview sign. Little by little as more LED backlights are available, I'm seeing more new and retrofit ones go the slim route a-la jbnv's pic on Drusilla.
Quote from: jakeroot on March 24, 2017, 11:54:38 PM
Several cities here in Washington use backlit street blades. They're all relatively new installations. Some cities, like Puyallup, use incandescent tubes (or something like that), with thicker blades. Others, like Lakewood, use LED backlighting, so the blades are thinner (photos posted respectively):
Fluorescent, not incandescent.
Quote from: US-175 on March 26, 2017, 03:54:24 AM
Quote from: jbnv on March 25, 2017, 11:45:30 AM
Baton Rouge has some, though they are very inconsistent on their use.
Drusilla Ln at Jefferson Hwy by Jay Bienvenu, on Flickr
Hmmm... interesting yellow trim on those signals... Oh, sorry I got distracted
Most of the ones in the Dallas area have been bigger, like Jake's Fairview sign. Little by little as more LED backlights are available, I'm seeing more new and retrofit ones go the slim route a-la jbnv's pic on Drusilla.
I have actually seen some LED retrofits maintaining the existing fluorescent housings. This saves money on not having to replace the entire sign, although the energy savings I don't think are as good as the slim LED signs.
Am I correct to assume that the fluorescent type signs are more common in warmer climates? They are ubiquitous in Southern California, the Phoenix/Tucson areas, Las Vegas, and Florida, although I have seen them in some more moderate climates such as Virginia Beach, Virginia and Rio Rancho, New Mexico (plus the Washington example given). I would think that cold temperatures could shorten the life of the fluorescent tubes.
I wonder if the Chicago examples posted are actually fluorescent. I have seen some LED signs that use the same style housings as fluorescent (some being new installs and some being retrofits of existing fluorescent signs).
Quote from: Pink Jazz on March 27, 2017, 09:30:20 PM
Am I correct to assume that the fluorescent type signs are more common in warmer climates? They are ubiquitous in Southern California, the Phoenix/Tucson areas, Las Vegas, and Florida, although I have seen them in some more moderate climates such as Virginia Beach, Virginia and Rio Rancho, New Mexico (plus the Washington example given). I would think that cold temperatures could shorten the life of the fluorescent tubes.
I wonder if the Chicago examples posted are actually fluorescent. I have seen some LED signs that use the same style housings as fluorescent (some being new installs and some being retrofits of existing fluorescent signs).
Backlit blades have been installed on the east and north sides of Bowling Green, Ohio in the last three years. Definitely not a warm weather city.
Richmond just started using them (the thin LED ones) about 5 years ago.
https://goo.gl/maps/ohaWWJGQdSQ2
Virginia Beach has been using the older fatter hanging ones for at least 25 years now
https://goo.gl/maps/JenXahchJvn
Though lately they've been installing the newer ones
https://goo.gl/maps/KhrWSzLhBfo
Quote from: plain on March 27, 2017, 10:01:40 PM
Virginia Beach has been using the older fatter hanging ones for at least 25 years now
https://goo.gl/maps/JenXahchJvn (https://goo.gl/maps/JenXahchJvn)
Though lately they've been installing the newer ones
https://goo.gl/maps/KhrWSzLhBfo (https://goo.gl/maps/KhrWSzLhBfo)
Yes, and last time I was there, some of the older ones have been retrofitted with LED strips while keeping the existing housings.
Here in the Phoenix area, most cities actually install them mounted to a side post:
https://goo.gl/maps/QQxQpPF6dKN2
Glendale mostly uses the hanging type, though:
https://goo.gl/maps/58mxCzxx4tM2
Tempe and Goodyear mostly have them integrated into the mast arms themselves:
https://goo.gl/maps/8dy1Adp9KRQ2
Manhattan has some backlit street blades that use a non standard font (looks like New Times Roman).
Lexington Ave. at E 47th St.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7545749,-73.9737507,3a,75y,145.79h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGcvYtaenH9h1cnEu6Kvh-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en
Quote from: Pink Jazz on March 27, 2017, 11:46:14 PM
Tempe and Goodyear mostly have them integrated into the mast arms themselves:
https://goo.gl/maps/8dy1Adp9KRQ2
As you know Virginia Beach also have these mast arms with the backlit street blades (on Atlantic Ave only of course). There's also these ground mounted white signs. I can't remember whether or not they were backlit, or maybe I was too lit myself to notice :-D
https://goo.gl/maps/YRtzkVsFXJ22
Quote from: plain on March 29, 2017, 11:30:04 PM
As you know Virginia Beach also have these mast arms with the backlit street blades (on Atlantic Ave only of course). There's also these ground mounted white signs. I can't remember whether or not they were backlit, or maybe I was too lit myself to notice :-D
https://goo.gl/maps/YRtzkVsFXJ22
Wow, those signals are fugly.
Quote from: plain on March 29, 2017, 11:30:04 PM
As you know Virginia Beach also have these mast arms with the backlit street blades (on Atlantic Ave only of course). There's also these ground mounted white signs. I can't remember whether or not they were backlit, or maybe I was too lit myself to notice :-D
https://goo.gl/maps/YRtzkVsFXJ22
These type of masts are known as modular signal poles, and are manufactured by a company known as CAID Industries in Tucson.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on March 27, 2017, 09:30:20 PM
Am I correct to assume that the fluorescent type signs are more common in warmer climates? They are ubiquitous in Southern California, the Phoenix/Tucson areas, Las Vegas, and Florida, although I have seen them in some more moderate climates such as Virginia Beach, Virginia and Rio Rancho, New Mexico (plus the Washington example given). I would think that cold temperatures could shorten the life of the fluorescent tubes.
The fluorescent style has been pretty standard throughout Nevada for years, but may be starting to give way to LED.
I'm certain the Vegas area was the earliest adopters, with every agency (except North Las Vegas, which still doesn't use backlit signs) using fluorescent backlit signs at all signals for about as long as I've been alive (I'm about to turn 34, and these are all I can remember since about age 5). I am not aware of any thin LED backlit signs in the Vegas area, but there may be some fluorescent housings that use LED retrofits.
Reno/Sparks, Carson City, and other Northern Nevada locales still have several older signal installations that use more traditional street blades. But the vast majority of signal installations have implemented fluorescent backlit signs. Reno, Carson City, and some other areas have started using the thin LED sign housings for new signals installed within the last 5 years or so.
As for the pros and cons of the thin LED type signs vs. the LED retrofit fluorescent style signs, here is what I know:
Pros for thin LED signs:
- Uses less energy than both fluorescent and LED retrofit fluorescent style signs.
- Lightweight and thin.
- Can generally be mounted directly onto a mast arm.
Cons for thin LED signs:
- LED light source is generally non-replaceable - entire sign must be replaced if LED light source fails.
- Wires are often visible externally.
Pros for LED retrofit fluorescent style signs:
- LED strips are replaceable if any fail.
- Wires are generally hidden.
- Lower upfront cost for cities that already have existing fluorescent signs (vs. replacing the existing signs).
Cons for LED retrofit fluorescent style signs:
- Somewhat less energy efficient than the thin LED signs.
- Big and bulky.
- Generally must be suspended or mounted to a side post.
^ Two questions:
1. How do we know the fluorescent-style LED retrofits are less energy efficient than thin-style LED signs?
2. What do you mean by wires being visible externally? Are you talking about the wire that attaches from the mast/mast arm to the sign housing, or wiring internal to the sign housing? I've never seen an thin LED sign where you could see internal wiring...
Quote from: roadfro on April 08, 2017, 01:16:48 PM
What do you mean by wires being visible externally? Are you talking about the wire that attaches from the mast/mast arm to the sign housing, or wiring internal to the sign housing? I've never seen an thin LED sign where you could see internal wiring...
The former. At least around here, the flourescent thick-style signs seem to have wires that are better hidden. Compare the two images that I linked in post #3. The "Fairview" street blade has a wire that is pulled completely straight (it's the farthest wire closest to the mast), whereas the "Bridgeport" street blade has a wire that's not
as straight. In terms of cleanliness, less visible wiring is probably preferred. I suppose thin-style LED street blades could have tidier wiring, but I've yet to see a good application of that.
Quote from: jakeroot on April 08, 2017, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: roadfro on April 08, 2017, 01:16:48 PM
What do you mean by wires being visible externally? Are you talking about the wire that attaches from the mast/mast arm to the sign housing, or wiring internal to the sign housing? I've never seen an thin LED sign where you could see internal wiring...
The former. At least around here, the flourescent thick-style signs seem to have wires that are better hidden. Compare the two images that I linked in post #3. The "Fairview" street blade has a wire that is pulled completely straight (it's the farthest wire closest to the mast), whereas the "Bridgeport" street blade has a wire that's not as straight. In terms of cleanliness, less visible wiring is probably preferred. I suppose thin-style LED street blades could have tidier wiring, but I've yet to see a good application of that.
But that's really related to the installation, and has nothing to do with the sign/sign housing itself.
Example: Take the I-80 & McCarran Blvd West interchange in Reno, in which backlit street name signs with fluorescent lighting are used at both ramp intersections. The older sign on the eastbound ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5233345,-119.8623058,3a,15y,77.73h,100.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV9MlCTSwWZQhI5qEXD2tgg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) has a wire that is pretty short, and comes from the mast arm. The newer sign on the westbound ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5250475,-119.862711,3a,24.9y,240.26h,100.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2Unp0EZ8e1xcTu7ngxd29A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (the signal was reconstructed several years ago) has a longer wire coming from the mast, and a junction box on the outside of the backlit sign housing. Compare the second sign with this LED backlit sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5404109,-119.8171656,3a,15y,324.94h,99.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDkOSfwyWUm0V5u1Vtbd-Jg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) at N. Virginia St & College Dr, and you can see the wire installation is virtually identical to the second McCarran example.
As an aside: I believe there are regional/NDOT standards for newer signal installations that now specify the placement of the street name sign, and the location/amount of wiring for said sign's housing. So for newer installs, there is more wire but the look is more consistent.
Quote from: roadfro on April 08, 2017, 01:16:48 PM
^ Two questions:
1. How do we know the fluorescent-style LED retrofits are less energy efficient than thin-style LED signs?
The thin LED signs are more energy efficient than the LED retrofit fluorescent-style signs since they use fewer LEDs. From what I read, the LED retrofit signs use 50% less energy than standard fluorescent, while the thin LED signs use 90% less energy. I think the thin signs are edge-lit, rather than backlit.
Sadly I think the backlit sign blades on signals are on their way out in King of Prussia, PA. Two lights I passed that had them before now have standard unlit signs on the signals. They are upgrading signals on that corridor and others so we'll see if more disappear.
They're slowly on the rise in Norman, Oklahoma, although it's hard to figure out what exactly their criteria are for where they go. The vast majority of new installs are regular aluminum, but two new ones showed up at 24th NW and Robinson as well as Lindsey and Ed Noble.
Mesa, Arizona has replaced some of their older backlit signs with regular signs, although backlit signs are still installed in some areas. I have noticed that a complete replacement of traffic masts after a construction project will usually include new backlit signs, as well as most newly added traffic masts.
I think either Columbia Heights or New Brighton, MN used to have them. I can't remember which nor can I remember if they still are.
FYI, Gilbert, AZ has recently switched to the thin LED signs, with the first intersection apparently being Ocotillo and Greenfield Roads over by Freeman Farms. Previously the town used the fluorescent-style signs, but with LED kits pre-installed on newer installations.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 21, 2017, 06:22:52 PM
FYI, Gilbert, AZ has recently switched to the thin LED signs, with the first intersection apparently being Ocotillo and Greenfield Roads over by Freeman Farms. Previously the town used the fluorescent-style signs, but with LED kits pre-installed on newer installations.
Do the new installations hang from the mast arm, or are they fitted directly onto the mast arm? From what I've seen, the thin-LED street blades seem to be installed directly onto the mast arms, whereas the fluorescent-style is hung from the mast arm (or a second arm sticking out of the mast just below the main arm).
Quote from: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 21, 2017, 06:22:52 PM
FYI, Gilbert, AZ has recently switched to the thin LED signs, with the first intersection apparently being Ocotillo and Greenfield Roads over by Freeman Farms. Previously the town used the fluorescent-style signs, but with LED kits pre-installed on newer installations.
Do the new installations hang from the mast arm, or are they fitted directly onto the mast arm? From what I've seen, the thin-LED street blades seem to be installed directly onto the mast arms, whereas the fluorescent-style is hung from the mast arm (or a second arm sticking out of the mast just below the main arm).
Both the old and new style are side-mounted to the mast above the main arm. This is a common installation style in Arizona, since the ADOT-standard mast also contains a lamp post at the top of the mast. However, these appeared to be much thinner than Gilbert's usual illuminated street blades.
Now it appears that four cities in the Phoenix area are using the thin-LED street blades - Phoenix, Mesa, Gilbert, and Scottsdale. Of those, Phoenix, Mesa, and Gilbert side-mount them to the mast arm, while Scottsdale fits them directly to the mast arm.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 21, 2017, 06:22:52 PM
FYI, Gilbert, AZ has recently switched to the thin LED signs, with the first intersection apparently being Ocotillo and Greenfield Roads over by Freeman Farms. Previously the town used the fluorescent-style signs, but with LED kits pre-installed on newer installations.
Do the new installations hang from the mast arm, or are they fitted directly onto the mast arm? From what I've seen, the thin-LED street blades seem to be installed directly onto the mast arms, whereas the fluorescent-style is hung from the mast arm (or a second arm sticking out of the mast just below the main arm).
I've seen both of them installed both ways. After the hurricanes in south florida 10+ years ago, they reinstalled the flourescent lights back onto the arms directly as 90%+ of them were destroyed by the wind, the signs blew straight through the fixtures. I assume they thought by them having a backing they'd fair better.
In Orlando, they install them in seemingly random ways.
Here's an example where they're actively converting from a 2011 installed fluorescent street blade on its own pole (with the orange county logo and a white border) to a thin dual sided LED blade hanging directly from the mast:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5653647,-81.1947118,3a,30.7y,131.88h,93.66t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1smvZ8DMqc05z_p700oOt05Q!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656
They seemingly still install them in Orange County both single and double sided, even if its hanging from the mast arm, and they also still hang them from its own pole fairly frequently, and sometimes directly on the arm, entirely at random. And they do frequently still put the logo on them and the border, not sure how they decide that part either, likely a random number generator. Sometimes you see both in the same intersection.
Quote from: UCFKnights on August 22, 2017, 10:10:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 21, 2017, 06:22:52 PM
FYI, Gilbert, AZ has recently switched to the thin LED signs, with the first intersection apparently being Ocotillo and Greenfield Roads over by Freeman Farms. Previously the town used the fluorescent-style signs, but with LED kits pre-installed on newer installations.
Do the new installations hang from the mast arm, or are they fitted directly onto the mast arm? From what I've seen, the thin-LED street blades seem to be installed directly onto the mast arms, whereas the fluorescent-style is hung from the mast arm (or a second arm sticking out of the mast just below the main arm).
I've seen both of them installed both ways. After the hurricanes in south florida 10+ years ago, they reinstalled the flourescent lights back onto the arms directly as 90%+ of them were destroyed by the wind, the signs blew straight through the fixtures. I assume they thought by them having a backing they'd fair better.
In Orlando, they install them in seemingly random ways.
Here's an example where they're actively converting from a 2011 installed fluorescent street blade on its own pole (with the orange county logo and a white border) to a thin dual sided LED blade hanging directly from the mast:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5653647,-81.1947118,3a,30.7y,131.88h,93.66t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1smvZ8DMqc05z_p700oOt05Q!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5653647,-81.1947118,3a,30.7y,131.88h,93.66t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1smvZ8DMqc05z_p700oOt05Q!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656)
They seemingly still install them in Orange County both single and double sided, even if its hanging from the mast arm, and they also still hang them from its own pole fairly frequently, and sometimes directly on the arm, entirely at random. And they do frequently still put the logo on them and the border, not sure how they decide that part either, likely a random number generator. Sometimes you see both in the same intersection.
Here in the Phoenix area I think the only cities that currently do hanging illuminated signs are Glendale and Scottsdale (I stand corrected about them being mounted directly to the mast arm). Most other cities do the side-mounted installation onto the mast, although some cities have installed hanging signs in the past.
It seems that Queen Creek for some reason is still sticking with fluorescent signs. They don't appear to be even using the LED retrofit kits.
As of last year Phoenix has approved a project to retrofit its illuminated street name signs with LED kits and replace their faces. I wonder if this means you will see significantly less Clearview in Phoenix soon. Not sure what is Phoenix's current status on Clearview - Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert, and Queen Creek have discontinued its use. Mesa, Gilbert, and Queen Creek are using FHWA for all street name signs. Chandler is using a thin-stroke Helvetica for its illuminated street blades and FHWA for its regular street blades.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 15, 2017, 04:38:01 AM
They're slowly on the rise in Norman, Oklahoma, although it's hard to figure out what exactly their criteria are for where they go. The vast majority of new installs are regular aluminum, but two new ones showed up at 24th NW and Robinson as well as Lindsey and Ed Noble.
The City of Edmond has installed them at each intersection for the Covell/I-35 widening project. They look really good and I'm excited they did this. Hopefully they do this with each construction project now. I'd even like for them to go back on recent projects and add them, though I don't see them doing that.
Quote from: roadfro on April 08, 2017, 05:33:54 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 08, 2017, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: roadfro on April 08, 2017, 01:16:48 PM
What do you mean by wires being visible externally? Are you talking about the wire that attaches from the mast/mast arm to the sign housing, or wiring internal to the sign housing? I've never seen an thin LED sign where you could see internal wiring...
The former. At least around here, the flourescent thick-style signs seem to have wires that are better hidden. Compare the two images that I linked in post #3. The "Fairview" street blade has a wire that is pulled completely straight (it's the farthest wire closest to the mast), whereas the "Bridgeport" street blade has a wire that's not as straight. In terms of cleanliness, less visible wiring is probably preferred. I suppose thin-style LED street blades could have tidier wiring, but I've yet to see a good application of that.
But that's really related to the installation, and has nothing to do with the sign/sign housing itself.
Example: Take the I-80 & McCarran Blvd West interchange in Reno, in which backlit street name signs with fluorescent lighting are used at both ramp intersections. The older sign on the eastbound ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5233345,-119.8623058,3a,15y,77.73h,100.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV9MlCTSwWZQhI5qEXD2tgg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) has a wire that is pretty short, and comes from the mast arm. The newer sign on the westbound ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5250475,-119.862711,3a,24.9y,240.26h,100.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2Unp0EZ8e1xcTu7ngxd29A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (the signal was reconstructed several years ago) has a longer wire coming from the mast, and a junction box on the outside of the backlit sign housing. Compare the second sign with this LED backlit sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5404109,-119.8171656,3a,15y,324.94h,99.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDkOSfwyWUm0V5u1Vtbd-Jg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) at N. Virginia St & College Dr, and you can see the wire installation is virtually identical to the second McCarran example.
As an aside: I believe there are regional/NDOT standards for newer signal installations that now specify the placement of the street name sign, and the location/amount of wiring for said sign's housing. So for newer installs, there is more wire but the look is more consistent.
Hello. Being a Southern California native, I've seen various installations, removals or replacement of backlit signs. In Victorville, where I'm from, MOST installations are still the classic large backlit blades, including new traffic signal installations. the wires, like most CA installations, are connected to the mast arm, unless, as of a few recent newer installations, the sign has its own mast arm between the luminaire and signal head arm, for example:
2016 installation, Amethyst Rd and Hook Blvd
https://goo.gl/maps/jej8fDcNjFR2
2012/2013 installation (standard mast arm sign placement), Amargosa Road and Nisqualli/La Mesa Road
https://goo.gl/maps/tziu5zxapNN2
Newer LED blades are found in the connected town of Apple Valley, however, are still installed similarly to the larger fluorescent backlit blades:
2015 installation, Bear Valley Rd and Mohawk/Multnomah Rd.
https://goo.gl/maps/1VHUzoUPG542
Apple Valley has begun using the new LED blade in their latest installations
From my many visits to NV, I've noticed that the wire is place in the mast arm or pole only depending on the relativity to its location on the arm. If its closer to the pole, the wire is connected to the pole. The further away, it is connected to the mast arm. Nevada has very similar practices with California as far as traffic signal installations, sign mounts and signal head placements, both states of which are VERY consistent overall design
Various municipalities in Will and Kane Counties are using them in Illinois, and they're being added to all new signal installs done by the Cook County Highway Department.
Here in Grand Junction, they originally used back-lit florescent (usually NuArts) then about 10-15 years ago they started using the thinner edge-lit LED signs to new assemblies while keeping the florescents untouched, save for the occasional tube replacement.
Now they are slowly converting the older NuArts with larger, hanging reflective signs -- in the same vein as overhead BGSs have been slowly replaced over the last couple of decades.
As much as I like backlit blades, the reflective metal replacements are easier to read and a bit larger than their replacements -- plus some intersections with numbered highways now include the route shield on their hanging street blades.
They're popping up all over the suburbs north of Dallas, especially in Frisco.
The new signals appearing in West Lafayette, Indiana have backlit street signs; the earliest ones were Clearview (yuck, clearly not INDOT work) but the later ones are FHWA (yay). I have at least one recent pic of a couple taken from upstairs at Harry's. :D
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26231365_10109501798606358_3682655691888772893_n.jpg?oh=8839ccdb002258cae17c3ed7baab9508&oe=5AE4B525)
It is still amazing to me that the city is willing to pony up so much to replace perfectly functional INDOT signal assemblies. They could have painted the masts black, installed new signals on the spanwires as desired, and saved a lot of work and money. But they want the stylish poles. I can forgive the fancy poles at new signal locations, but why bother replacing what worked and was yours to keep with INDOT's compliments?
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 22, 2017, 10:41:37 PM
Quote from: UCFKnights on August 22, 2017, 10:10:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 21, 2017, 06:22:52 PM
FYI, Gilbert, AZ has recently switched to the thin LED signs, with the first intersection apparently being Ocotillo and Greenfield Roads over by Freeman Farms. Previously the town used the fluorescent-style signs, but with LED kits pre-installed on newer installations.
Do the new installations hang from the mast arm, or are they fitted directly onto the mast arm? From what I've seen, the thin-LED street blades seem to be installed directly onto the mast arms, whereas the fluorescent-style is hung from the mast arm (or a second arm sticking out of the mast just below the main arm).
I've seen both of them installed both ways. After the hurricanes in south florida 10+ years ago, they reinstalled the flourescent lights back onto the arms directly as 90%+ of them were destroyed by the wind, the signs blew straight through the fixtures. I assume they thought by them having a backing they'd fair better.
In Orlando, they install them in seemingly random ways.
Here's an example where they're actively converting from a 2011 installed fluorescent street blade on its own pole (with the orange county logo and a white border) to a thin dual sided LED blade hanging directly from the mast:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5653647,-81.1947118,3a,30.7y,131.88h,93.66t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1smvZ8DMqc05z_p700oOt05Q!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5653647,-81.1947118,3a,30.7y,131.88h,93.66t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1smvZ8DMqc05z_p700oOt05Q!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656)
They seemingly still install them in Orange County both single and double sided, even if its hanging from the mast arm, and they also still hang them from its own pole fairly frequently, and sometimes directly on the arm, entirely at random. And they do frequently still put the logo on them and the border, not sure how they decide that part either, likely a random number generator. Sometimes you see both in the same intersection.
Here in the Phoenix area I think the only cities that currently do hanging illuminated signs are Glendale and Scottsdale (I stand corrected about them being mounted directly to the mast arm). Most other cities do the side-mounted installation onto the mast, although some cities have installed hanging signs in the past.
It seems that Queen Creek for some reason is still sticking with fluorescent signs. They don't appear to be even using the LED retrofit kits.
As of last year Phoenix has approved a project to retrofit its illuminated street name signs with LED kits and replace their faces. I wonder if this means you will see significantly less Clearview in Phoenix soon. Not sure what is Phoenix's current status on Clearview - Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert, and Queen Creek have discontinued its use. Mesa, Gilbert, and Queen Creek are using FHWA for all street name signs. Chandler is using a thin-stroke Helvetica for its illuminated street blades and FHWA for its regular street blades.
The city of Phoenix still uses Clearview on all of their illuminated street name signs.
In Salt Lake City, when TRAX was extended to the airport in 2013, all the signals along the route (North Temple) were replaced, and the new signals have straight mast arms and backlit street blades. Here's one example (https://goo.gl/maps/RSMxY5mbguy). I believe they are the only backlit street blades in Salt Lake City, except for some backlit one-way signs along 500 (https://goo.gl/maps/4MPWY7WcR792) and 600 South (https://goo.gl/maps/zix3ADJmns72).
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades! This is on a new signal just built in Crest Hill/Joliet
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4716/40176237752_9172d336b0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24deHLm)
2018-02-11_01-29-06 (https://flic.kr/p/24deHLm) by Paul Drives (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138603251@N02/), on Flickr
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades! This is on a new signal just built in Crest Hill/Joliet
I have seen different colors for illuminated blades before including blue. In Chandler, Arizona, they are brown. Both blue and brown are MUTCD-approved alternative background colors to the traditional green for street blades, as well as white.
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 10, 2018, 07:40:37 PM
The city of Phoenix still uses Clearview on all of their illuminated street name signs.
Interesting. What about Glendale and Peoria?
FYI, I can confirm that Scottsdale has also stopped using Clearview (I saw an illuminated LED sign in Scottsdale using mixed case FHWA).
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades!
Here's a blue backlit street blade in San Antonio:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4769/39849978322_6b713e6c07_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23HpycL)
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 11, 2018, 09:24:05 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades! This is on a new signal just built in Crest Hill/Joliet
I have seen different colors for illuminated blades before including blue. In Chandler, Arizona, they are brown. Both blue and brown are MUTCD-approved alternative background colors to the traditional green for street blades, as well as white.
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 10, 2018, 07:40:37 PM
The city of Phoenix still uses Clearview on all of their illuminated street name signs.
Interesting. What about Glendale and Peoria?
FYI, I can confirm that Scottsdale has also stopped using Clearview (I saw an illuminated LED sign in Scottsdale using mixed case FHWA).
They recently installed a white background LED street blade here (which in this area, white background indicates private roadways here), and its near impossible o read at night with the edge lit LEDs.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 11, 2018, 09:24:05 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades! This is on a new signal just built in Crest Hill/Joliet
I have seen different colors for illuminated blades before including blue. In Chandler, Arizona, they are brown. Both blue and brown are MUTCD-approved alternative background colors to the traditional green for street blades, as well as white.
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 10, 2018, 07:40:37 PM
The city of Phoenix still uses Clearview on all of their illuminated street name signs.
Interesting. What about Glendale and Peoria?
FYI, I can confirm that Scottsdale has also stopped using Clearview (I saw an illuminated LED sign in Scottsdale using mixed case FHWA).
Some of the traffic signals near the Westgate area in Glendale have illuminated street signs in Clearview. They all have the city of Glendale logo in the sign. Other than that, I think Glendale has cut back on new lighted street sign installs, except for the "crosswalk" signals within city limits. Similar to what I have seen in the city limits of Tucson.
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 12, 2018, 02:34:55 AM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 11, 2018, 09:24:05 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades! This is on a new signal just built in Crest Hill/Joliet
I have seen different colors for illuminated blades before including blue. In Chandler, Arizona, they are brown. Both blue and brown are MUTCD-approved alternative background colors to the traditional green for street blades, as well as white.
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 10, 2018, 07:40:37 PM
The city of Phoenix still uses Clearview on all of their illuminated street name signs.
Interesting. What about Glendale and Peoria?
FYI, I can confirm that Scottsdale has also stopped using Clearview (I saw an illuminated LED sign in Scottsdale using mixed case FHWA).
Some of the traffic signals near the Westgate area in Glendale have illuminated street signs in Clearview. They all have the city of Glendale logo in the sign. Other than that, I think Glendale has cut back on new lighted street sign installs, except for the "crosswalk" signals within city limits. Similar to what I have seen in the city limits of Tucson.
I have seen a similar trend in Mesa as well, with some lighted signs being removed. Mostly lighted signs are being installed in specific areas of interest, such as the Fiesta District, the Power Road Knowledge Corridor, Downtown, and Eastmark.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades! This is on a new signal just built in Crest Hill/Joliet
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4716/40176237752_9172d336b0_c.jpg
The same setup, with flourescent tubing and blue backgrounds, was widely utilised by the city of Coquitlam, BC (before they switched to the LED style) (partial credit to
SignGeek101 for mentioning them on the last page, though I am familiar with them IRL): https://goo.gl/NgGgrJ
I would love to see more of these lighted street signs at signalized freeway intersections:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4623953,-112.0694427,3a,75y,163.6h,103.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGABDJKihyPq1A0uq4b-f7Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
As of now, all the other traffic signals by the city of Phoenix at a freeway intersection have no route shield. The route is spelled out "I-10" "SR 51" or "SR 101". I don't know if the future Loop 202 (South Mountain Freeway) will use city of Phoenix signals or ADOT signals.
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 26, 2018, 05:38:32 PM
I would love to see more of these lighted street signs at signalized freeway intersections:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4623953,-112.0694427,3a,75y,163.6h,103.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGABDJKihyPq1A0uq4b-f7Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4623953,-112.0694427,3a,75y,163.6h,103.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGABDJKihyPq1A0uq4b-f7Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
As of now, all the other traffic signals by the city of Phoenix at a freeway intersection have no route shield. The route is spelled out "I-10" "SR 51" or "SR 101". I don't know if the future Loop 202 (South Mountain Freeway) will use city of Phoenix signals or ADOT signals.
Tempe also uses route shields for I-10 and US 60 in their lighted signs. However, in Tempe not all freeway interchanges use lighted signs; I think some in Tempe are ex-ADOT signals.
I-10 and Warner Rd, and US 60 at Mill Ave use older ADOT signals. Every other freeway interchange in Tempe uses "Tempe signals". I've only seen 3 intersections in Tempe with the route shield within a lighted sign.
I think those illuminated signs in FHWA at Alma School and Chandler Boulevard in Chandler might have been a contractor error, since I am still seeing new illuminated signs in Chandler in the thin-stroked Helvetica, and I did read a specification document from the City of Chandler that calls for Helvetica. Chandler went from a bolder Helvetica, to Clearview, to the thin-stroked Helvetica. The bolder Helvetica also was once used by Mesa and Gilbert before those cities switched to Clearview, but Mesa and Gilbert now both use FHWA for their illuminated signs (as well as Mesa on their non-illuminated signs at signalized intersections).
King of a Prussia uses backlit blades all the time
With LED technology, I would hope that cities like Tucson, Mesa, and Glendale would consider putting up more lighted signs in the future.
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 28, 2018, 08:23:46 PM
With LED technology, I would hope that cities like Tucson, Mesa, and Glendale would consider putting up more lighted signs in the future.
Mesa has installed the LED signs in a few areas, mostly specific areas of interest such as Downtown, Fiesta District, Power Road Knowledge Corridor, and Eastmark. They have cut down on lighted signs in other areas though.
Some new traffic signals are being installed at 22nd St and Thomas Rd in Phoenix. The new LED street sign for 22nd St looks like it's NOT a Clearview sign. Don't know if it's a one-off or the beginning of a new trend for the city of Phoenix.
The Town of Queen Creek is installing a traffic signal at the entrance to our neighborhood. I wonder if they will continue to use the fluorescent signs or will they switch to the thin LED type that Phoenix, Gilbert, and Mesa are now using (although the latter only installs them at specific areas of interest and has cut down on lighted signs in other areas).
I just noticed that the Town of Gilbert is now including the town's logo in the upper left corner of their illuminated street blades. Not sure if they will switch back to Clearview considering these signs were just installed and they are in FHWA. I know Chandler includes its insignia in its signs (plus the fact that their street blades are brown).
Also, the Town of Queen Creek has installed the signs on the new traffic signals on the entrance to our neighborhood. They still appear to be fluorescent fixtures, although I am not sure if they have LED kits installed since they are not active yet.
Interestingly, it does appear that Fluoresco is the market leader here in the Phoenix area for illuminated street name signs, used by most cities in the Valley. Exceptions include Glendale, Tempe, Scottsdale, Goodyear, and a few older signals in Gilbert and Avondale. Fluoresco signs generally have a "boxy" appearance (rather than the trapezoidal form factor of other manufacturers), although they now have LED signs available.
I saw these on the Glendale AZ Transportation Department page on Facebook. LED lighted street name signs:
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35720418_1824651137844142_8706987852568723456_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=cc1735b45c5cb8c10fd6cf93b4fa1ecb&oe=5C0B4716
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35838317_1824651367844119_1400544820400750592_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=cc109499717fc1797038c4bf7a31c4fe&oe=5C07C447
Hopefully they will be used citywide.