I-5 Lane Ending Signs in Seattle

[SpudMuffin]

So I took a trip to Seattle for the first time to a concert a couple weeks ago. While driving I-5 for the first time I came upon (and almost ran my SUV into) these:

http://goo.gl/maps/a5cB1

I'm referring to the yellow arrow signs that point to the right. They kind of stick out of the median barrier and into the lane. I noticed as we went along, they got longer and protruded further into the lane. I guess that's one way to get people to move over! These were pretty foreign and nearly scared the crap out of me.

My big question is, are these signs flexible? Like, if I were to not find a gap to merge right and hit these signs, would they "spring" or bend backwards and give a little bit? It kinda looked like they move. Or do they not budge, and I'd have to buy myself a new bumper? I obviously didn't want to experiment with that at the time...

[KEK Inc.]

Like railroad crossing gates, they don't really do much stopping an idiot going above 40 MPH in a closed lane.  They may damage your bumper, but they're not reinforced. 

Traffic is usually bad enough.  Unless you were really not paying attention, it's pretty hard to hit this.  Not to mention the 3 signs before this one that indicate whether the express lanes are open or not.

[AsphaltPlanet]

These lane ending gates are pretty common.  For example, Chicago controls their Express Lanes on the Kennedy with similar gates, and they are used to control traffic on a reversible lane on A-13 in suburban Montreal.  I wouldn't want to hit one, but as KEK says, they aren't reinforced or anything.

[The High Plains Traveler]

As you scroll ahead from that location on GSV, there is a motorcyclist in that left lane passing by a gate that looks to occupy about half the lane. In another frame he has already passed the camera vehicle and merged.

[SpudMuffin]

Well, funny story, I was following behind a police SUV in this lane and he all of a sudden decided to merge left quickly, right as these gates showed up. Since it was new, it took me by surprise - and I had a tough time merging in heavy traffic. I didn't know these gates existed outside of Seattle, good to know, thanks for the info 

(here in podunk Idaho, such advanced traffic control devices are scarce/non-existent)

[TEG24601]

There are warnings, starting over 1 mile prior that the lane is closed (if the express lanes are closed), they warnings start at least 3 miles out from the North End.

[nexus73]

When I first went to Seattle in 1975, the reversible express lanes really impressed me as a good idea.  I wonder why we don't have more of them?

Rick

[Kacie Jane]

When I first went to Seattle in 1975, the reversible express lanes really impressed me as a good idea.  I wonder why we don't have more of them?

Rick

Drive from Shoreline to Seattle in the afternoon (that is, reverse peak) and you might start to have your answer. 8 lanes northbound and 5 lanes southbound when volumes are fairly equal no longer seems like a terribly bright idea.

[nexus73]

When I first went to Seattle in 1975, the reversible express lanes really impressed me as a good idea.  I wonder why we don't have more of them?

Rick

Drive from Shoreline to Seattle in the afternoon (that is, reverse peak) and you might start to have your answer. 8 lanes northbound and 5 lanes southbound when volumes are fairly equal no longer seems like a terribly bright idea.

Okay, we'll close 'em down so there is only 5 lanes in each direction 24/7.  Now, did that solve your problem?  LOL!  All your complaint proves is that you can't make all people happy all the time.  As for me, I'll take any relief I can get for a major route.  Better 8 sometimes than 5 all the time.  Know what I'm talkin' about Vern?

Rick

[kkt]

When I first went to Seattle in 1975, the reversible express lanes really impressed me as a good idea.  I wonder why we don't have more of them?

Rick

Drive from Shoreline to Seattle in the afternoon (that is, reverse peak) and you might start to have your answer. 8 lanes northbound and 5 lanes southbound when volumes are fairly equal no longer seems like a terribly bright idea.

Okay, we'll close 'em down so there is only 5 lanes in each direction 24/7.  Now, did that solve your problem? 

No, but 7 lanes northbound and 7 lanes southbound might be better.  (The extra lane comes from not needing another set of shoulders and barriers for the reversible lanes.)

[TEG24601]

When I first went to Seattle in 1975, the reversible express lanes really impressed me as a good idea.  I wonder why we don't have more of them?

Rick

Drive from Shoreline to Seattle in the afternoon (that is, reverse peak) and you might start to have your answer. 8 lanes northbound and 5 lanes southbound when volumes are fairly equal no longer seems like a terribly bright idea.

Okay, we'll close 'em down so there is only 5 lanes in each direction 24/7.  Now, did that solve your problem?  LOL!  All your complaint proves is that you can't make all people happy all the time.  As for me, I'll take any relief I can get for a major route.  Better 8 sometimes than 5 all the time.  Know what I'm talkin' about Vern?

Rick

They will come in handy whenever WSDOT needs to do a fundamental reconstruction of I-5 from Northgate to the Downtown.  I for one wish that there was more and one lane on and one lane off at the South End, there was a direct connection to I-90, and the ramp didn't squeeze I-5 South to two lanes.

[Kacie Jane]

When I first went to Seattle in 1975, the reversible express lanes really impressed me as a good idea.  I wonder why we don't have more of them?

Rick

Drive from Shoreline to Seattle in the afternoon (that is, reverse peak) and you might start to have your answer. 8 lanes northbound and 5 lanes southbound when volumes are fairly equal no longer seems like a terribly bright idea.

Okay, we'll close 'em down so there is only 5 lanes in each direction 24/7.  Now, did that solve your problem?  LOL!  All your complaint proves is that you can't make all people happy all the time.  As for me, I'll take any relief I can get for a major route.  Better 8 sometimes than 5 all the time.  Know what I'm talkin' about Vern?

Rick

You're absolutely right. My post was meant to be somewhat facetious, and I suppose that didn't come across properly.

I'm sure the reversible express lanes were absolutely genius when they first opened, and for several years afterwards. Now though, jobs are not nearly as centered in downtown Seattle as they used to be, and I think if we knew then what we know now, the solution may have been a lot different.

(Also, I'm conveniently ignoring the fact that some of the southbound traffic problems are caused by the left exit to SR 520 -- and then the left merge from 520 crossing over to exit at Mercer or Stewart. Also something that may have been planned differently if we had the knowledge of today.)

[KEK Inc.]

Pipe Dream KEK here, but if SR-522 ever becomes a freeway between Bothel and Seattle (which would mean imminent domain up the ass through Lake City, Lake Forest Park, Kenmore and Bothel), that might get them to completely redesign I-5 from the Ship Canal Br to Northgate.  Express lanes would probably disperse in the U District Area for SR-522. 

Otherwise, I don't see any reason for them to do a complete overhaul of I-5 there.  It is long overdue for repaving, though. 

[kkt]

Pipe Dream KEK here, but if SR-522 ever becomes a freeway between Bothel and Seattle (which would mean imminent domain up the ass through Lake City, Lake Forest Park, Kenmore and Bothel), that might get them to completely redesign I-5 from the Ship Canal Br to Northgate.  Express lanes would probably disperse in the U District Area for SR-522. 

Otherwise, I don't see any reason for them to do a complete overhaul of I-5 there.  It is long overdue for repaving, though. 

This is bordering on fictional highways, but...

It would help I-5 southbound a lot to redesign the WA-520 to I-5 interchange, to avoid the left exits and entrances.  Also the I-5 express lanes should have an exit/entrance to 520. But both of those would require a ton of takings of expensive real estate, and probably won't happen.

[cpzilliacus]

When I first went to Seattle in 1975, the reversible express lanes really impressed me as a good idea.  I wonder why we don't have more of them?

Shirley  Highway (I-395 and I-95 in Northern Virginia) has had them since the early 1970's.

[mrsman]

Shirley Highway is a little different since it is HOV/Busway (at least during rush hours).  I-15 north of San Diego has reversible HOT lanes.

The reversible express lanes in Seattle and Chicago are open to non-HOVs.

An earlier commenter said that the reversible express lanes make no sense in Seattle, because traffic in both directions is more equivalent - employment in Seattle is not as centralized as when the freeway was constructed.

I would say that for a reversible HOV (or HOT) expressway, the reversible lane will still make sense, even if traffic were balanced, because transit and carpools would still likely be higher in the direction of Downtown.

As far as I know, Chicago and Seattle are the only places with reversible express lanes that aren't HOV or HOT.  I don't know why this is the case in Seattle, but in Chicago, I read once that the highway authorities were not interested in encouraging carpooling or express buses in HOV lanes since they preferred commuters who weren't driving to use the extensive rail system (Metra and L).

[kkt]

Shirley Highway is a little different since it is HOV/Busway (at least during rush hours).  I-15 north of San Diego has reversible HOT lanes.

The reversible express lanes in Seattle and Chicago are open to non-HOVs.

An earlier commenter said that the reversible express lanes make no sense in Seattle, because traffic in both directions is more equivalent - employment in Seattle is not as centralized as when the freeway was constructed.

I would say that for a reversible HOV (or HOT) expressway, the reversible lane will still make sense, even if traffic were balanced, because transit and carpools would still likely be higher in the direction of Downtown.

As far as I know, Chicago and Seattle are the only places with reversible express lanes that aren't HOV or HOT.  I don't know why this is the case in Seattle, but in Chicago, I read once that the highway authorities were not interested in encouraging carpooling or express buses in HOV lanes since they preferred commuters who weren't driving to use the extensive rail system (Metra and L).

Part of the express lanes in Seattle are HOV -- north of NE 75th St.  Also several of the entrances to the express lanes give preference to HOV.

[TEG24601]

Shirley Highway is a little different since it is HOV/Busway (at least during rush hours).  I-15 north of San Diego has reversible HOT lanes.

The reversible express lanes in Seattle and Chicago are open to non-HOVs.

An earlier commenter said that the reversible express lanes make no sense in Seattle, because traffic in both directions is more equivalent - employment in Seattle is not as centralized as when the freeway was constructed.

I would say that for a reversible HOV (or HOT) expressway, the reversible lane will still make sense, even if traffic were balanced, because transit and carpools would still likely be higher in the direction of Downtown.

As far as I know, Chicago and Seattle are the only places with reversible express lanes that aren't HOV or HOT.  I don't know why this is the case in Seattle, but in Chicago, I read once that the highway authorities were not interested in encouraging carpooling or express buses in HOV lanes since they preferred commuters who weren't driving to use the extensive rail system (Metra and L).

Part of the express lanes in Seattle are HOV -- north of NE 75th St.  Also several of the entrances to the express lanes give preference to HOV.

The entire Express Lanes have an HOV lane Northbound, it is only because of the interchange with Lake City Way (SR-522) that the HOV lane does't extend downtown Southbound.

[andy3175]

So I took a trip to Seattle for the first time to a concert a couple weeks ago. While driving I-5 for the first time I came upon (and almost ran my SUV into) these:

http://goo.gl/maps/a5cB1

I'm referring to the yellow arrow signs that point to the right. They kind of stick out of the median barrier and into the lane. I noticed as we went along, they got longer and protruded further into the lane. I guess that's one way to get people to move over! These were pretty foreign and nearly scared the crap out of me.

My big question is, are these signs flexible? Like, if I were to not find a gap to merge right and hit these signs, would they "spring" or bend backwards and give a little bit? It kinda looked like they move. Or do they not budge, and I'd have to buy myself a new bumper? I obviously didn't want to experiment with that at the time...

A bit off topic, but I have to say that Google Street View (GSV) is getting to be quite a bit better at taking its pictures during days of high sun with few or no clouds in the sky. The high-definition pictures of the freeway and buildings surrounding the signs in question are quite beautiful, in my opinion. The signs are clear (except for the blurring from their facial blurring program).

At some point people might say who needs amateur road photos when you have GSV?

Regards,
Andy

[Bruce]

A bit off topic, but I have to say that Google Street View (GSV) is getting to be quite a bit better at taking its pictures during days of high sun with few or no clouds in the sky. The high-definition pictures of the freeway and buildings surrounding the signs in question are quite beautiful, in my opinion. The signs are clear (except for the blurring from their facial blurring program).

At some point people might say who needs amateur road photos when you have GSV?

Regards,
Andy

Google owns the copyright to all their photos and watermarks them. They also delete their old photos once the upload new ones. Case in point: all the pre-2008 pictures are slowly fading away in larger cities, being replaced with post-2009 HD pictures.

[kkt]

A bit off topic, but I have to say that Google Street View (GSV) is getting to be quite a bit better at taking its pictures during days of high sun with few or no clouds in the sky. The high-definition pictures of the freeway and buildings surrounding the signs in question are quite beautiful, in my opinion. The signs are clear (except for the blurring from their facial blurring program).

At some point people might say who needs amateur road photos when you have GSV?

Regards,
Andy

Google owns the copyright to all their photos and watermarks them. They also delete their old photos once the upload new ones. Case in point: all the pre-2008 pictures are slowly fading away in larger cities, being replaced with post-2009 HD pictures.

They don't put the old ones in the time machine?