News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered at https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=33904.0
Corrected several already and appreciate your patience as we work through the rest.

Main Menu

Backlit Street Blades

Started by ColossalBlocks, March 24, 2017, 12:04:15 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Pink Jazz

#25
Mesa, Arizona has replaced some of their older backlit signs with regular signs, although backlit signs are still installed in some areas. I have noticed that a complete replacement of traffic masts after a construction project will usually include new backlit signs, as well as most newly added traffic masts.


TheHighwayMan3561

I think either Columbia Heights or New Brighton, MN used to have them. I can't remember which nor can I remember if they still are.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Pink Jazz

FYI, Gilbert, AZ has recently switched to the thin LED signs, with the first intersection apparently being Ocotillo and Greenfield Roads over by Freeman Farms.  Previously the town used the fluorescent-style signs, but with LED kits pre-installed on newer installations.

jakeroot

Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 21, 2017, 06:22:52 PM
FYI, Gilbert, AZ has recently switched to the thin LED signs, with the first intersection apparently being Ocotillo and Greenfield Roads over by Freeman Farms.  Previously the town used the fluorescent-style signs, but with LED kits pre-installed on newer installations.

Do the new installations hang from the mast arm, or are they fitted directly onto the mast arm? From what I've seen, the thin-LED street blades seem to be installed directly onto the mast arms, whereas the fluorescent-style is hung from the mast arm (or a second arm sticking out of the mast just below the main arm).

Pink Jazz

Quote from: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 21, 2017, 06:22:52 PM
FYI, Gilbert, AZ has recently switched to the thin LED signs, with the first intersection apparently being Ocotillo and Greenfield Roads over by Freeman Farms.  Previously the town used the fluorescent-style signs, but with LED kits pre-installed on newer installations.

Do the new installations hang from the mast arm, or are they fitted directly onto the mast arm? From what I've seen, the thin-LED street blades seem to be installed directly onto the mast arms, whereas the fluorescent-style is hung from the mast arm (or a second arm sticking out of the mast just below the main arm).

Both the old and new style are side-mounted to the mast above the main arm.  This is a common installation style in Arizona, since the ADOT-standard mast also contains a lamp post at the top of the mast.  However, these appeared to be much thinner than Gilbert's usual illuminated street blades.

Now it appears that four cities in the Phoenix area are using the thin-LED street blades - Phoenix, Mesa, Gilbert, and Scottsdale.  Of those, Phoenix, Mesa, and Gilbert side-mount them to the mast arm, while Scottsdale fits them directly to the mast arm.

UCFKnights

Quote from: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 21, 2017, 06:22:52 PM
FYI, Gilbert, AZ has recently switched to the thin LED signs, with the first intersection apparently being Ocotillo and Greenfield Roads over by Freeman Farms.  Previously the town used the fluorescent-style signs, but with LED kits pre-installed on newer installations.

Do the new installations hang from the mast arm, or are they fitted directly onto the mast arm? From what I've seen, the thin-LED street blades seem to be installed directly onto the mast arms, whereas the fluorescent-style is hung from the mast arm (or a second arm sticking out of the mast just below the main arm).

I've seen both of them installed both ways. After the hurricanes in south florida 10+ years ago, they reinstalled the flourescent lights back onto the arms directly as 90%+ of them were destroyed by the wind, the signs blew straight through the fixtures. I assume they thought by them having a backing they'd fair better.

In Orlando, they install them in seemingly random ways.

Here's an example where they're actively converting from a 2011 installed fluorescent street blade on its own pole (with the orange county logo and a white border) to a thin dual sided LED blade hanging directly from the mast:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5653647,-81.1947118,3a,30.7y,131.88h,93.66t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1smvZ8DMqc05z_p700oOt05Q!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656

They seemingly still install them in Orange County both single and double sided, even if its hanging from the mast arm, and they also still hang them from its own pole fairly frequently, and sometimes directly on the arm, entirely at random. And they do frequently still put the logo on them and the border, not sure how they decide that part either, likely a random number generator. Sometimes you see both in the same intersection.

Pink Jazz

#31
Quote from: UCFKnights on August 22, 2017, 10:10:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 21, 2017, 06:22:52 PM
FYI, Gilbert, AZ has recently switched to the thin LED signs, with the first intersection apparently being Ocotillo and Greenfield Roads over by Freeman Farms.  Previously the town used the fluorescent-style signs, but with LED kits pre-installed on newer installations.

Do the new installations hang from the mast arm, or are they fitted directly onto the mast arm? From what I've seen, the thin-LED street blades seem to be installed directly onto the mast arms, whereas the fluorescent-style is hung from the mast arm (or a second arm sticking out of the mast just below the main arm).

I've seen both of them installed both ways. After the hurricanes in south florida 10+ years ago, they reinstalled the flourescent lights back onto the arms directly as 90%+ of them were destroyed by the wind, the signs blew straight through the fixtures. I assume they thought by them having a backing they'd fair better.

In Orlando, they install them in seemingly random ways.

Here's an example where they're actively converting from a 2011 installed fluorescent street blade on its own pole (with the orange county logo and a white border) to a thin dual sided LED blade hanging directly from the mast:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5653647,-81.1947118,3a,30.7y,131.88h,93.66t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1smvZ8DMqc05z_p700oOt05Q!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656

They seemingly still install them in Orange County both single and double sided, even if its hanging from the mast arm, and they also still hang them from its own pole fairly frequently, and sometimes directly on the arm, entirely at random. And they do frequently still put the logo on them and the border, not sure how they decide that part either, likely a random number generator. Sometimes you see both in the same intersection.

Here in the Phoenix area I think the only cities that currently do hanging illuminated signs are Glendale and Scottsdale (I stand corrected about them being mounted directly to the mast arm).  Most other cities do the side-mounted installation onto the mast, although some cities have installed hanging signs in the past.

It seems that Queen Creek for some reason is still sticking with fluorescent signs.  They don't appear to be even using the LED retrofit kits.

As of last year Phoenix has approved a project to retrofit its illuminated street name signs with LED kits and replace their faces.  I wonder if this means you will see significantly less Clearview in Phoenix soon.  Not sure what is Phoenix's current status on Clearview - Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert, and Queen Creek have discontinued its use.  Mesa, Gilbert, and Queen Creek are using FHWA for all street name signs.  Chandler is using a thin-stroke Helvetica for its illuminated street blades and FHWA for its regular street blades.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 15, 2017, 04:38:01 AM
They're slowly on the rise in Norman, Oklahoma, although it's hard to figure out what exactly their criteria are for where they go. The vast majority of new installs are regular aluminum, but two new ones showed up at 24th NW and Robinson as well as Lindsey and Ed Noble.
The City of Edmond has installed them at each intersection for the Covell/I-35 widening project. They look really good and I'm excited they did this. Hopefully they do this with each construction project now. I'd even like for them to go back on recent projects and add them, though I don't see them doing that.

calsignalfan85

Quote from: roadfro on April 08, 2017, 05:33:54 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 08, 2017, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: roadfro on April 08, 2017, 01:16:48 PM
What do you mean by wires being visible externally? Are you talking about the wire that attaches from the mast/mast arm to the sign housing, or wiring internal to the sign housing?  I've never seen an thin LED sign where you could see internal wiring...

The former. At least around here, the flourescent thick-style signs seem to have wires that are better hidden. Compare the two images that I linked in post #3. The "Fairview" street blade has a wire that is pulled completely straight (it's the farthest wire closest to the mast), whereas the "Bridgeport" street blade has a wire that's not as straight. In terms of cleanliness, less visible wiring is probably preferred. I suppose thin-style LED street blades could have tidier wiring, but I've yet to see a good application of that.

But that's really related to the installation, and has nothing to do with the sign/sign housing itself.


Example: Take the I-80 & McCarran Blvd West interchange in Reno, in which backlit street name signs with fluorescent lighting are used at both ramp intersections. The older sign on the eastbound ramp has a wire that is pretty short, and comes from the mast arm. The newer sign on the westbound ramp (the signal was reconstructed several years ago) has a longer wire coming from the mast, and a junction box on the outside of the backlit sign housing. Compare the second sign with this LED backlit sign at N. Virginia St & College Dr, and you can see the wire installation is virtually identical to the second McCarran example.

As an aside: I believe there are regional/NDOT standards for newer signal installations that now specify the placement of the street name sign, and the location/amount of wiring for said sign's housing. So for newer installs, there is more wire but the look is more consistent.

Hello. Being a Southern California native, I've seen various installations, removals or replacement of backlit signs. In Victorville, where I'm from, MOST installations are still the classic large backlit blades, including new traffic signal installations. the wires, like most CA installations, are connected to the mast arm, unless, as of a few recent newer installations, the sign has its own mast arm between the luminaire and signal head arm, for example:

2016 installation, Amethyst Rd and Hook Blvd
https://goo.gl/maps/jej8fDcNjFR2

2012/2013 installation (standard mast arm sign placement), Amargosa Road and Nisqualli/La Mesa Road
https://goo.gl/maps/tziu5zxapNN2

Newer LED blades are found in the connected town of Apple Valley, however, are still installed similarly to the larger fluorescent backlit blades:

2015 installation, Bear Valley Rd and Mohawk/Multnomah Rd.
https://goo.gl/maps/1VHUzoUPG542

Apple Valley has begun using the new LED blade in their latest installations

From my many visits to NV, I've noticed that the wire is place in the mast arm or pole only depending on the relativity to its location on the arm. If its closer to the pole, the wire is connected to the pole. The further away, it is connected to the mast arm. Nevada has very similar practices with California as far as traffic signal installations, sign mounts and signal head placements, both states of which are VERY consistent overall design

paulthemapguy

Various municipalities in Will and Kane Counties are using them in Illinois, and they're being added to all new signal installs done by the Cook County Highway Department.
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
My website! http://www.paulacrossamerica.com Now featuring all of Ohio!
My USA Shield Gallery https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHwJRZk
TM Clinches https://bit.ly/2UwRs4O

National collection status: 361/425. Only 64 route markers remain

thenetwork

Here in Grand Junction, they originally used back-lit florescent (usually NuArts) then about 10-15 years ago they started using the thinner edge-lit LED signs to new assemblies while keeping the florescents untouched, save for the occasional tube replacement.

Now they are slowly converting the older NuArts with larger, hanging reflective signs -- in the same vein as overhead BGSs have been slowly replaced over the last couple of decades.

As much as I like backlit blades, the reflective metal replacements are easier to read and a bit larger than their replacements -- plus some intersections with numbered highways now include the route shield on their hanging street blades.

Road Hog

They're popping up all over the suburbs north of Dallas, especially in Frisco.

PurdueBill

The new signals appearing in West Lafayette, Indiana have backlit street signs; the earliest ones were Clearview (yuck, clearly not INDOT work) but the later ones are FHWA (yay).  I have at least one recent pic of a couple taken from upstairs at Harry's.  :D 



It is still amazing to me that the city is willing to pony up so much to replace perfectly functional INDOT signal assemblies.  They could have painted the masts black, installed new signals on the spanwires as desired, and saved a lot of work and money.  But they want the stylish poles.  I can forgive the fancy poles at new signal locations, but why bother replacing what worked and was yours to keep with INDOT's compliments?

Roadwarriors79

Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 22, 2017, 10:41:37 PM
Quote from: UCFKnights on August 22, 2017, 10:10:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 21, 2017, 06:22:52 PM
FYI, Gilbert, AZ has recently switched to the thin LED signs, with the first intersection apparently being Ocotillo and Greenfield Roads over by Freeman Farms.  Previously the town used the fluorescent-style signs, but with LED kits pre-installed on newer installations.

Do the new installations hang from the mast arm, or are they fitted directly onto the mast arm? From what I've seen, the thin-LED street blades seem to be installed directly onto the mast arms, whereas the fluorescent-style is hung from the mast arm (or a second arm sticking out of the mast just below the main arm).

I've seen both of them installed both ways. After the hurricanes in south florida 10+ years ago, they reinstalled the flourescent lights back onto the arms directly as 90%+ of them were destroyed by the wind, the signs blew straight through the fixtures. I assume they thought by them having a backing they'd fair better.

In Orlando, they install them in seemingly random ways.

Here's an example where they're actively converting from a 2011 installed fluorescent street blade on its own pole (with the orange county logo and a white border) to a thin dual sided LED blade hanging directly from the mast:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5653647,-81.1947118,3a,30.7y,131.88h,93.66t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1smvZ8DMqc05z_p700oOt05Q!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656

They seemingly still install them in Orange County both single and double sided, even if its hanging from the mast arm, and they also still hang them from its own pole fairly frequently, and sometimes directly on the arm, entirely at random. And they do frequently still put the logo on them and the border, not sure how they decide that part either, likely a random number generator. Sometimes you see both in the same intersection.

Here in the Phoenix area I think the only cities that currently do hanging illuminated signs are Glendale and Scottsdale (I stand corrected about them being mounted directly to the mast arm).  Most other cities do the side-mounted installation onto the mast, although some cities have installed hanging signs in the past.

It seems that Queen Creek for some reason is still sticking with fluorescent signs.  They don't appear to be even using the LED retrofit kits.

As of last year Phoenix has approved a project to retrofit its illuminated street name signs with LED kits and replace their faces.  I wonder if this means you will see significantly less Clearview in Phoenix soon.  Not sure what is Phoenix's current status on Clearview - Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert, and Queen Creek have discontinued its use.  Mesa, Gilbert, and Queen Creek are using FHWA for all street name signs.  Chandler is using a thin-stroke Helvetica for its illuminated street blades and FHWA for its regular street blades.


The city of Phoenix still uses Clearview on all of their illuminated street name signs.

US 89

#39
In Salt Lake City, when TRAX was extended to the airport in 2013, all the signals along the route (North Temple) were replaced, and the new signals have straight mast arms and backlit street blades. Here's one example. I believe they are the only backlit street blades in Salt Lake City, except for some backlit one-way signs along 500 and 600 South.

paulthemapguy

Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades!  This is on a new signal just built in Crest Hill/Joliet


2018-02-11_01-29-06 by Paul Drives, on Flickr
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
My website! http://www.paulacrossamerica.com Now featuring all of Ohio!
My USA Shield Gallery https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHwJRZk
TM Clinches https://bit.ly/2UwRs4O

National collection status: 361/425. Only 64 route markers remain

Pink Jazz

#41
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades!  This is on a new signal just built in Crest Hill/Joliet




I have seen different colors for illuminated blades before including blue.  In Chandler, Arizona, they are brown.  Both blue and brown are MUTCD-approved alternative background colors to the traditional green for street blades, as well as white.

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 10, 2018, 07:40:37 PM


The city of Phoenix still uses Clearview on all of their illuminated street name signs.

Interesting.  What about Glendale and Peoria?

FYI, I can confirm that Scottsdale has also stopped using Clearview (I saw an illuminated LED sign in Scottsdale using mixed case FHWA).

US 89

Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades!

Here's a blue backlit street blade in San Antonio:


UCFKnights

Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 11, 2018, 09:24:05 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades!  This is on a new signal just built in Crest Hill/Joliet




I have seen different colors for illuminated blades before including blue.  In Chandler, Arizona, they are brown.  Both blue and brown are MUTCD-approved alternative background colors to the traditional green for street blades, as well as white.

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 10, 2018, 07:40:37 PM


The city of Phoenix still uses Clearview on all of their illuminated street name signs.

Interesting.  What about Glendale and Peoria?

FYI, I can confirm that Scottsdale has also stopped using Clearview (I saw an illuminated LED sign in Scottsdale using mixed case FHWA).
They recently installed a white background LED street blade here (which in this area, white background indicates private roadways here), and its near impossible o read at night with the edge lit LEDs.

Roadwarriors79

Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 11, 2018, 09:24:05 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades!  This is on a new signal just built in Crest Hill/Joliet




I have seen different colors for illuminated blades before including blue.  In Chandler, Arizona, they are brown.  Both blue and brown are MUTCD-approved alternative background colors to the traditional green for street blades, as well as white.

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 10, 2018, 07:40:37 PM


The city of Phoenix still uses Clearview on all of their illuminated street name signs.

Interesting.  What about Glendale and Peoria?

FYI, I can confirm that Scottsdale has also stopped using Clearview (I saw an illuminated LED sign in Scottsdale using mixed case FHWA).

Some of the traffic signals near the Westgate area in Glendale have illuminated street signs in Clearview. They all have the city of Glendale logo in the sign. Other than that, I think Glendale has cut back on new lighted street sign installs, except for the "crosswalk" signals within city limits. Similar to what I have seen in the city limits of Tucson.

Pink Jazz

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 12, 2018, 02:34:55 AM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 11, 2018, 09:24:05 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades!  This is on a new signal just built in Crest Hill/Joliet




I have seen different colors for illuminated blades before including blue.  In Chandler, Arizona, they are brown.  Both blue and brown are MUTCD-approved alternative background colors to the traditional green for street blades, as well as white.

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 10, 2018, 07:40:37 PM


The city of Phoenix still uses Clearview on all of their illuminated street name signs.

Interesting.  What about Glendale and Peoria?

FYI, I can confirm that Scottsdale has also stopped using Clearview (I saw an illuminated LED sign in Scottsdale using mixed case FHWA).

Some of the traffic signals near the Westgate area in Glendale have illuminated street signs in Clearview. They all have the city of Glendale logo in the sign. Other than that, I think Glendale has cut back on new lighted street sign installs, except for the "crosswalk" signals within city limits. Similar to what I have seen in the city limits of Tucson.

I have seen a similar trend in Mesa as well, with some lighted signs being removed.  Mostly lighted signs are being installed in specific areas of interest, such as the Fiesta District, the Power Road Knowledge Corridor, Downtown, and Eastmark.

jakeroot

Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
Here's something I'm new to--blue backlit street blades!  This is on a new signal just built in Crest Hill/Joliet

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4716/40176237752_9172d336b0_c.jpg

The same setup, with flourescent tubing and blue backgrounds, was widely utilised by the city of Coquitlam, BC (before they switched to the LED style) (partial credit to SignGeek101 for mentioning them on the last page, though I am familiar with them IRL): https://goo.gl/NgGgrJ

Roadwarriors79

I would love to see more of these lighted street signs at signalized freeway intersections:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4623953,-112.0694427,3a,75y,163.6h,103.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGABDJKihyPq1A0uq4b-f7Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

As of now, all the other traffic signals by the city of Phoenix at a freeway intersection have no route shield. The route is spelled out "I-10" "SR 51" or "SR 101". I don't know if the future Loop 202 (South Mountain Freeway) will use city of Phoenix signals or ADOT signals.

Pink Jazz


Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 26, 2018, 05:38:32 PM
I would love to see more of these lighted street signs at signalized freeway intersections:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4623953,-112.0694427,3a,75y,163.6h,103.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGABDJKihyPq1A0uq4b-f7Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

As of now, all the other traffic signals by the city of Phoenix at a freeway intersection have no route shield. The route is spelled out "I-10" "SR 51" or "SR 101". I don't know if the future Loop 202 (South Mountain Freeway) will use city of Phoenix signals or ADOT signals.


Tempe also uses route shields for I-10 and US 60 in their lighted signs.  However, in Tempe not all freeway interchanges use lighted signs; I think some in Tempe are ex-ADOT signals.

Roadwarriors79

#49
I-10 and Warner Rd, and US 60 at Mill Ave use older ADOT signals. Every other freeway interchange in Tempe uses "Tempe signals". I've only seen 3 intersections in Tempe with the route shield within a lighted sign.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.