Breezewood

[02 Park Ave]

Who built the connexion, PENNDOT or the PTC?

[jeffandnicole]

So to the folks that keep thinking Breezewood will never be fixed or that the businesses are going to always prevail,  I ask,  "you know this has happened before right?"

And the choir sings "Yeah, it's happened before.  You're not telling us anything new.". Hell, it's happening right now, with the 95/PA Turnpike connection. 

BTW, if you do a little more research (which maybe you did and thought to leave this out), you'll find out that there were hearings on extending I-176 to the PA Turnpike back in 1984.   Which means planning of such was done before that date.  The connection didn't open until 1996.

So, ignoring all else, and using that same timeline, even if PA magically produced several options to the public today, the connector wouldn't open until 2030.

[_Simon]

So to the folks that keep thinking Breezewood will never be fixed or that the businesses are going to always prevail,  I ask,  "you know this has happened before right?"

And the choir sings "Yeah, it's happened before.  You're not telling us anything new.". Hell, it's happening right now, with the 95/PA Turnpike connection. 

BTW, if you do a little more research (which maybe you did and thought to leave this out), you'll find out that there were hearings on extending I-176 to the PA Turnpike back in 1984.   Which means planning of such was done before that date.  The connection didn't open until 1996.

So, ignoring all else, and using that same timeline, even if PA magically produced several options to the public today, the connector wouldn't open until 2030.

Then I guess we better get cracking!

SM-G955U

[akotchi]

So to the folks that keep thinking Breezewood will never be fixed or that the businesses are going to always prevail,  I ask,  "you know this has happened before right?"

And the choir sings "Yeah, it's happened before.  You're not telling us anything new.". Hell, it's happening right now, with the 95/PA Turnpike connection. 

BTW, if you do a little more research (which maybe you did and thought to leave this out), you'll find out that there were hearings on extending I-176 to the PA Turnpike back in 1984.   Which means planning of such was done before that date.  The connection didn't open until 1996.

So, ignoring all else, and using that same timeline, even if PA magically produced several options to the public today, the connector wouldn't open until 2030.

OT question . . . was there ever any plan to extend I-176 south of its historical terminus at Route 10/23 (before it was tied directly to the Turnpike)?  I tried to look that up recently, but found nothing . . .

[jeffandnicole]

So to the folks that keep thinking Breezewood will never be fixed or that the businesses are going to always prevail,  I ask,  "you know this has happened before right?"

And the choir sings "Yeah, it's happened before.  You're not telling us anything new.". Hell, it's happening right now, with the 95/PA Turnpike connection. 

BTW, if you do a little more research (which maybe you did and thought to leave this out), you'll find out that there were hearings on extending I-176 to the PA Turnpike back in 1984.   Which means planning of such was done before that date.  The connection didn't open until 1996.

So, ignoring all else, and using that same timeline, even if PA magically produced several options to the public today, the connector wouldn't open until 2030.

OT question . . . was there ever any plan to extend I-176 south of its historical terminus at Route 10/23 (before it was tied directly to the Turnpike)?  I tried to look that up recently, but found nothing . . .

On this site, https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-176_pa.html , there's this paragraph. It's pretty vague though on what it was supposed to do or where it would go.

A hearing held on December 8, 1966 outlined two concepts to extend Interstate 176 southward.6 One proposal lengthened Interstate 176 southwest from Morgantown along a parallel course 1.5 miles to the south of Pennsylvania 23 to New Holland and Lancaster. Estimated to cost $15.4-million, the 21.8-mile route was thought to initially open as a two-lane limited access highway

[Beltway]

OT question . . . was there ever any plan to extend I-176 south of its historical terminus at Route 10/23 (before it was tied directly to the Turnpike)?  I tried to look that up recently, but found nothing . . .

On this site, https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-176_pa.html , there's this paragraph. It's pretty vague though on what it was supposed to do or where it would go.

A hearing held on December 8, 1966 outlined two concepts to extend Interstate 176 southward.6 One proposal lengthened Interstate 176 southwest from Morgantown along a parallel course 1.5 miles to the south of Pennsylvania 23 to New Holland and Lancaster. Estimated to cost $15.4-million, the 21.8-mile route was thought to initially open as a two-lane limited access highway

Sounds like the PA-23 freeway that was partially built near Lancaster.

[Roadsguy]

Who built the connexion, PENNDOT or the PTC?

The PTC built the interchange and toll plaza section, as well as the loop ramp and the mainline up to a stub just north of the bridge over PA 10. PennDOT built the rest of the mainline and ramps at PA 10 soon after. You can see the pavement change where SR 0176 (the PennDOT part) ends and Turnpike maintenance begins.

[_Simon]

Who built the connexion, PENNDOT or the PTC?

The PTC built the interchange and toll plaza section, as well as the loop ramp and the mainline up to a stub just north of the bridge over PA 10. PennDOT built the rest of the mainline and ramps at PA 10 soon after. You can see the pavement change where SR 0176 (the PennDOT part) ends and Turnpike maintenance begins.

I love it when a plan comes together.  This just clear and able ability makes Breezewood seem even more outlandish (literally, an outlier). 

As recently as last February the press were once again complaining about breezewood in light of Trumps promises regarding infrastructure spending.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/06/us/politics/a-pennsylvania-highway-town-at-the-junction-of-politics-and-policy.html

I personally believe the prevelation of satellite imagery on GPS apps and the overall inclusion of navigation screens in cars makes average people much more aware of ridiculous looking shit like this.  You can tell from any map that the alignment is ridiculous and you ask yourself "what the fuck was that?" When you get back on the freeway and see you have hundreds of miles remaining to your destination and the last 15 minutes was just there for seemingly shits and giggles.

It's the opposite of an oasis, it's an aggravation factory.

[Beltway]

I personally believe the prevelation of satellite imagery on GPS apps and the overall inclusion of navigation screens in cars makes average people much more aware of ridiculous looking shit like this.  You can tell from any map that the alignment is ridiculous and you ask yourself "what the fuck was that?" When you get back on the freeway and see you have hundreds of miles remaining to your destination and the last 15 minutes was just there for seemingly shits and giggles.

That is a good point, with Google Maps satellite view anyone can look at Breezewood and even if they don't have much engineering knowledge they can see the open spaces where those two ramps could go, and see other examples of how interchanges are laid out and how much space they take.  At least they can't be buffaloed by someone at PTC who might claim that it would be "way too difficult to do it".

[Mr_Northside]

The satellite view might not depict the varying topology of the area though.  Nothing that can't be overcome with tall piers and bridges, and for 2 simple ramps that shouldn't be too ridiculous - but it would probably make it more expensive than some people just glancing at a map would think it would be.

[_Simon]

The satellite view might not depict the varying topology of the area though.  Nothing that can't be overcome with tall piers and bridges, and for 2 simple ramps that shouldn't be too ridiculous - but it would probably make it more expensive than some people just glancing at a map would think it would be.

Every road project is.  It shouldn't cost, for example, more than the Morgantown project did.   Ive gotten a lot of feedback on my video from people like "oh I realized this was wrong but figured it was in the process of being fixed" or "we didn't realize it was actually designed to never connect".

SM-G955U

[Avalanchez71]

Just leave Breezewood alone.  It is fine as it is.

[Beltway]

The satellite view might not depict the varying topology of the area though.  Nothing that can't be overcome with tall piers and bridges, and for 2 simple ramps that shouldn't be too ridiculous - but it would probably make it more expensive than some people just glancing at a map would think it would be.

Every road project is.  It shouldn't cost, for example, more than the Morgantown project did.   Ive gotten a lot of feedback on my video from people like "oh I realized this was wrong but figured it was in the process of being fixed" or "we didn't realize it was actually designed to never connect".
SM-G955U

Much less than Morgantown.  That was in effect 1.3 mile of new freeway branching from preexisting I-176 and a new trumpet interchange with the turnpike and a new modified diamond interchange with PA-10.

The terrain around where the turnpike access highway crosses I-70 is on gently rolling terrain.  Satellite view augmented with eyeball.    :-)

[sparker]

Just leave Breezewood alone.  It is fine as it is.

Breezewood, Henderson -- someone really, really has a thing for interrupted Interstates!  Maybe someday it'll get its own Pornhub category!

[Anthony_JK]

Just leave Breezewood alone.  It is fine as it is.

I don't even live in Pennsylvania, and I'm not buying it. No, it is not fine. You can't call it a freeway but then route it in reverse order across surface streets with two lights.

Either reroute I-70 onto the Penna and make the Breezwood section a Bus I-70, or build a proper direct freeway connection between I-70 and I-76. When a designated freeway has to endure stoplights, it's no longer a freeway.

And, yes, I would decommission I-180 in Wyoming and all other non-freeway Interstates.

[AMLNet49]

Just leave Breezewood alone.  It is fine as it is.

I don't even live in Pennsylvania, and I'm not buying it. No, it is not fine. You can't call it a freeway but then route it in reverse order across surface streets with two lights.

Either reroute I-70 onto the Penna and make the Breezwood section a Bus I-70, or build a proper direct freeway connection between I-70 and I-76. When a designated freeway has to endure stoplights, it's no longer a freeway.

And, yes, I would decommission I-180 in Wyoming and all other non-freeway Interstates.

Seems like you've never looked at a map of Breezewood either

[jeffandnicole]

The satellite view might not depict the varying topology of the area though.  Nothing that can't be overcome with tall piers and bridges, and for 2 simple ramps that shouldn't be too ridiculous - but it would probably make it more expensive than some people just glancing at a map would think it would be.

Every road project is.  It shouldn't cost, for example, more than the Morgantown project did.   Ive gotten a lot of feedback on my video from people like "oh I realized this was wrong but figured it was in the process of being fixed" or "we didn't realize it was actually designed to never connect".
SM-G955U

Much less than Morgantown.  That was in effect 1.3 mile of new freeway branching from preexisting I-176 and a new trumpet interchange with the turnpike and a new modified diamond interchange with PA-10.

The terrain around where the turnpike access highway crosses I-70 is on gently rolling terrain.  Satellite view augmented with eyeball.    :-)

Can your eyeball tell us what's underground, which may require a much deeper and more expensive excavation?

[Beltway]

Much less than Morgantown.  That was in effect 1.3 mile of new freeway branching from preexisting I-176 and a new trumpet interchange with the turnpike and a new modified diamond interchange with PA-10.
The terrain around where the turnpike access highway crosses I-70 is on gently rolling terrain.  Satellite view augmented with eyeball.    :-)

Can your eyeball tell us what's underground, which may require a much deeper and more expensive excavation?

Such as?  Wetlands and acid rock are the only possibilities.  There are no wetlands there, and viewing other highway cuts near there reveals no acid rock treatments.  The soil in that area is the common mix of rocks, clay and sand, which generally makes an excellent material for highway road beds.  Nevertheless a geological survey would be part of the preliminary engineering for any highway project.

[CanesFan27]

Much less than Morgantown.  That was in effect 1.3 mile of new freeway branching from preexisting I-176 and a new trumpet interchange with the turnpike and a new modified diamond interchange with PA-10.
The terrain around where the turnpike access highway crosses I-70 is on gently rolling terrain.  Satellite view augmented with eyeball.    :-)

Can your eyeball tell us what's underground, which may require a much deeper and more expensive excavation?

Such as?  Wetlands and acid rock are the only possibilities.  There are no wetlands there, and viewing other highway cuts near there reveals no acid rock treatments.  The soil in that area is the common mix of rocks, clay and sand, which generally makes an excellent material for highway road beds.  Nevertheless a geological survey would be part of the preliminary engineering for any highway project.

What if there isa void from an old coal mine that needs to be filled?

[Rothman]

Cats and dogs living together -- mass hysteria!

[Beltway]

Much less than Morgantown.  That was in effect 1.3 mile of new freeway branching from preexisting I-176 and a new trumpet interchange with the turnpike and a new modified diamond interchange with PA-10.
The terrain around where the turnpike access highway crosses I-70 is on gently rolling terrain.  Satellite view augmented with eyeball.    :-)

Can your eyeball tell us what's underground, which may require a much deeper and more expensive excavation?

Such as?  Wetlands and acid rock are the only possibilities.  There are no wetlands there, and viewing other highway cuts near there reveals no acid rock treatments.  The soil in that area is the common mix of rocks, clay and sand, which generally makes an excellent material for highway road beds.  Nevertheless a geological survey would be part of the preliminary engineering for any highway project.

What if there is a void from an old coal mine that needs to be filled?

That is something that the geological survey would determine.

[jeffandnicole]

Much less than Morgantown.  That was in effect 1.3 mile of new freeway branching from preexisting I-176 and a new trumpet interchange with the turnpike and a new modified diamond interchange with PA-10.
The terrain around where the turnpike access highway crosses I-70 is on gently rolling terrain.  Satellite view augmented with eyeball.    :-)

Can your eyeball tell us what's underground, which may require a much deeper and more expensive excavation?

Such as?  Wetlands and acid rock are the only possibilities.  There are no wetlands there, and viewing other highway cuts near there reveals no acid rock treatments.  The soil in that area is the common mix of rocks, clay and sand, which generally makes an excellent material for highway road beds.  Nevertheless a geological survey would be part of the preliminary engineering for any highway project.

What if there is a void from an old coal mine that needs to be filled?

That is something that the geological survey would determine.

Exactly.  Which is why simply looking at the terrain doesn't cut it.

[Avalanchez71]

Just leave Breezewood alone.  It is fine as it is.

I don't even live in Pennsylvania, and I'm not buying it. No, it is not fine. You can't call it a freeway but then route it in reverse order across surface streets with two lights.

Either reroute I-70 onto the Penna and make the Breezwood section a Bus I-70, or build a proper direct freeway connection between I-70 and I-76. When a designated freeway has to endure stoplights, it's no longer a freeway.

And, yes, I would decommission I-180 in Wyoming and all other non-freeway Interstates.

The segment in Breezewood is signed as US 30 not I-70.

[Rothman]

Meh.  There is enough BGS signage along that stretch with I-70 shields that I'd consider it signed I-70.

[jeffandnicole]

Just leave Breezewood alone.  It is fine as it is.

I don't even live in Pennsylvania, and I'm not buying it. No, it is not fine. You can't call it a freeway but then route it in reverse order across surface streets with two lights.

Either reroute I-70 onto the Penna and make the Breezwood section a Bus I-70, or build a proper direct freeway connection between I-70 and I-76. When a designated freeway has to endure stoplights, it's no longer a freeway.

And, yes, I would decommission I-180 in Wyoming and all other non-freeway Interstates.

The segment in Breezewood is signed as US 30 not I-70.

Wanna show me those signs? 

The GSV shows 70/30 to be largely devoid of any sort of route signage.  Coming off of the PA Turnpike, this BGS only uses I-70. https://goo.gl/maps/w9yZNigoy5p . No US 30 found anywhere in the multiroute area of I-70 & US 30.