Major League sports expansion sites

Started by Desert Man, November 06, 2017, 02:11:14 PM

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texaskdog

Quote from: Flint1979 on June 26, 2018, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on June 21, 2018, 09:42:34 AM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on June 21, 2018, 09:26:46 AM
Sometimes it isn't just about population when it comes to supporting a team. Atlanta is a top 10 market but failed twice with the NHL simply because the fan base isn't there to support hockey. Detroit and Phoenix are slightly smaller markets yet are able to support all 4 sports because the fan base is established, although it's debatable how well Phoenix supports its NHL team.

True, I don't agree when people make the argument about "they have 3 teams they can't support a 4th" because they are different sports.
Well the NBA and NHL seasons are at the same time. Most of the population isn't going to go to both sports when you have two leagues competing against each other for fan draw regardless if they are different sports or not. It's competition and some markets can't support having both the NBA and NHL in their market.

I don't know many hockey/basketball fans do you? 


Flint1979

Quote from: texaskdog on June 26, 2018, 09:10:10 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 26, 2018, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on June 21, 2018, 09:42:34 AM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on June 21, 2018, 09:26:46 AM
Sometimes it isn't just about population when it comes to supporting a team. Atlanta is a top 10 market but failed twice with the NHL simply because the fan base isn't there to support hockey. Detroit and Phoenix are slightly smaller markets yet are able to support all 4 sports because the fan base is established, although it's debatable how well Phoenix supports its NHL team.

True, I don't agree when people make the argument about "they have 3 teams they can't support a 4th" because they are different sports.
Well the NBA and NHL seasons are at the same time. Most of the population isn't going to go to both sports when you have two leagues competing against each other for fan draw regardless if they are different sports or not. It's competition and some markets can't support having both the NBA and NHL in their market.

I don't know many hockey/basketball fans do you?
It really seems like people pick one or the other. I'm generally more of a hockey fan than a basketball fan but I'll watch basketball.

tchafe1978

Quote from: Flint1979 on June 26, 2018, 09:53:12 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on June 26, 2018, 09:10:10 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 26, 2018, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on June 21, 2018, 09:42:34 AM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on June 21, 2018, 09:26:46 AM
Sometimes it isn't just about population when it comes to supporting a team. Atlanta is a top 10 market but failed twice with the NHL simply because the fan base isn't there to support hockey. Detroit and Phoenix are slightly smaller markets yet are able to support all 4 sports because the fan base is established, although it's debatable how well Phoenix supports its NHL team.

True, I don't agree when people make the argument about "they have 3 teams they can't support a 4th" because they are different sports.
Well the NBA and NHL seasons are at the same time. Most of the population isn't going to go to both sports when you have two leagues competing against each other for fan draw regardless if they are different sports or not. It's competition and some markets can't support having both the NBA and NHL in their market.

I don't know many hockey/basketball fans do you?
It really seems like people pick one or the other. I'm generally more of a hockey fan than a basketball fan but I'll watch basketball.

I know plenty of people, family members and friends who are both hockey and basketball fans. It's fine if you're not, but that doesn't mean others aren't. In Milwaukee, we have an NBA team, but no NHL team, so many people who are fans of both sports follow the Bucks but will also follow the Blackhawks since they are the closest NHL team. If you like a sport enough you'll find a team to follow. Many people have been pushing for years for Milwaukee to get an NHL team, either expansion or another team moving. In fact, the Bradley Center was originally built to attract an NHL team. Milwaukee is definitely a city with a strong hockey following, but whether the market is large enough to support an NHL team is debatable. So on one hand you have Atlanta, a top 10 market, that you would think would be big enough to support NHL along with NBA, but just doesn't have the fan base for hockey. And on the other hand you have Milwaukee that probably has the fan base but isn't a big enough market to support both NBA and NHL.

abefroman329

Quote from: texaskdog on June 26, 2018, 09:10:10 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 26, 2018, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on June 21, 2018, 09:42:34 AM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on June 21, 2018, 09:26:46 AM
Sometimes it isn't just about population when it comes to supporting a team. Atlanta is a top 10 market but failed twice with the NHL simply because the fan base isn't there to support hockey. Detroit and Phoenix are slightly smaller markets yet are able to support all 4 sports because the fan base is established, although it's debatable how well Phoenix supports its NHL team.

True, I don't agree when people make the argument about "they have 3 teams they can't support a 4th" because they are different sports.
Well the NBA and NHL seasons are at the same time. Most of the population isn't going to go to both sports when you have two leagues competing against each other for fan draw regardless if they are different sports or not. It's competition and some markets can't support having both the NBA and NHL in their market.

I don't know many hockey/basketball fans do you?

Sure, my dad and my brother are fans of hockey and basketball.

Of the two, I definitely prefer hockey.  My interest in basketball is almost nil.

SP Cook

IMHO, the NBA and NHL are aimed at very different people. 

The NHL is, by far, the most live-gate dependent of the "big 4" sports.  In the new places it has expanded to, it aims at newcomers, not only because many are from northern hockey friendly places, but also because these people, having no dog in the fight, feel excluded by the pervasive college sports centric cultures of places like Columbus, Tobacco Road, or Dallas, etc. 

The NBA is aimed at children (get the kids to come and at least either mom or dad have to bring them) and at 20 something, or even 30 something, failure-to-launch chronological adult males.   The simplistic morality plays and endless discussions about who is "the man" and who "represents" and who tweeted what about whom is more akin to pro wrestling than any sport.

Flint1979

I live in Michigan of course and have the Pistons and Red Wings to compare things to. I don't think they co-exist together very well. When the new Little Caesars Arena was built you had fans of the Red Wings having a problem with the Pistons playing in the same building and having banners in the rafters along with the Red Wings banners. I personally don't have a problem with either and am delighted that they share the same building now. Even though I live closer to where the Palace is at vs. downtown Detroit I'm happy the Pistons moved back to Detroit but as far as the fans go it seems like people either pick one or the other. I don't know too many people that are diehard Pistons fans, of course they have diehards but I'm more tempted to run into a diehard Red Wings fan before I run into a diehard Pistons fan. And Detroit draws well when the teams are doing well other than the Lions if the team is doing bad the fans won't show up.

Sctvhound

Quote from: SP Cook on June 27, 2018, 03:48:48 PM
IMHO, the NBA and NHL are aimed at very different people. 

The NHL is, by far, the most live-gate dependent of the "big 4" sports.  In the new places it has expanded to, it aims at newcomers, not only because many are from northern hockey friendly places, but also because these people, having no dog in the fight, feel excluded by the pervasive college sports centric cultures of places like Columbus, Tobacco Road, or Dallas, etc. 

The NBA is aimed at children (get the kids to come and at least either mom or dad have to bring them) and at 20 something, or even 30 something, failure-to-launch chronological adult males.   The simplistic morality plays and endless discussions about who is "the man" and who "represents" and who tweeted what about whom is more akin to pro wrestling than any sport.

And the NHL has many more fans of local teams in rural areas and areas that aren't near a team, compared to the NBA fanbases. Outside of the 6 or so major teams (Lakers, Celtics, Warriors, Spurs, Heat, and one or two others depending on who's good at the time), you go 30-40 miles outside of a home NBA city, most people are rooting for whoever's popular at the time.

SP Cook

Quote from: Sctvhound on June 27, 2018, 11:05:48 PM


And the NHL has many more fans of local teams in rural areas and areas that aren't near a team, compared to the NBA fanbases. Outside of the 6 or so major teams (Lakers, Celtics, Warriors, Spurs, Heat, and one or two others depending on who's good at the time), you go 30-40 miles outside of a home NBA city, most people are rooting for whoever's popular at the time.

Totally.  In most of the country, most people follow the nearest team as "us".  Even 100s of miles from the city.  Especially after the team has been established for a generation or so.  Except for the NBA.  You get away from the metro area and almost nobody in the hinterland considers the nearest team "us".  Most people outside urban areas do not follow that sport at all, and, those that do, because of the pro wrestling nature of it, just latch on to whoever is good currently or which of the faux storylines suits them.


Flint1979

Detroit might be called Hockeytown but it's really historically a baseball town. The Tigers are one of the charter teams of the American League and were there well ahead of the Red Wings, Lions and Pistons. The Hockeytown moniker really didn't come around until the 1990's when the Red Wings were in the early years of their 25 straight playoff appearances and hadn't won a Stanley Cup between 1955 and 1997 then won in back to back years and again in 2002 and 2008. It was really when Mike Ilitch bought the Red Wings in the early 80's and drafted Steve Yzerman that the Wings started rebuilding after years of being known as the Dead Wings. The Tigers though back in the war years were the #1 ticket in Detroit it was the thing to do in Detroit and if you played for the Tigers you were a star in Detroit. The NFL being around and taking over the popularity of MLB the Lions are popular but I still think this is a Tigers town. The Tigers are the oldest team in the city and have a very large following. The Pistons aren't one of those teams that you can get 50 miles away from Detroit and find people rooting for other teams. I've seen some people in Saginaw rooting for the Warriors simply because Draymond Green is from Saginaw and I don't buy that. LaMarr Woodley is from Saginaw too and there were some Steelers fans here because of that, in fact I know one of LaMarr's aunts, his grandma and his sister.



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