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New Jersey Turnpike

Started by hotdogPi, December 22, 2013, 09:04:24 PM

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PHLBOS

#775
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 29, 2014, 02:10:14 PM
In almost all instances, the Turnpike utilized tapered merging rather than acceleration lane merging at all of their interchanges.  (Interestingly enough, during the construction phase they used acceleration lanes rather than tapered merges)
That's probably where I saw and experienced using acceleration lanes on the NJTP.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 29, 2014, 02:10:14 PM
Obviously, they went with the tapered merges instead.

Yes, I have noticed the merges seem a bit more abrupt as well.
Okay, I wasn't hallucinating that the merge distances seem to be shorter and more abrupt.  Seems to me that such an arrangement (shorter merge areas) is an accident (& accompanying lawsuit(s)) just waiting to happen. 
GPS does NOT equal GOD


jeffandnicole

I think the entire taper, where it straightens out at an angle coming into the Turnpike, is rather lengthy, but the actual merge area is very short. 

In theory, that area is supposed to allow both thru and entering traffic time to notice each other, and to allow one to speed up / slow down / merge over.  In reality: FU. Get two people to FU to each other, and that accident just waiting to happen probably will happen.

NE2

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 29, 2014, 02:47:13 PM
Get two people to FU to each other,
and you have a threesome? Those two people and U[sic]?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

jeffandnicole

Quote from: NE2 on December 29, 2014, 03:11:39 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 29, 2014, 02:47:13 PM
Get two people to FU to each other,
and you have a threesome? Those two people and U[sic]?

Depends if the cop wants to get involved.

PHLBOS

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 29, 2014, 02:47:13 PM
I think the entire taper, where it straightens out at an angle coming into the Turnpike, is rather lengthy, but the actual merge area is very short.
Which, IMHO, is the issue of contention.

What possessed the NJTA to reduce the merge area?  A step backwards IMHO.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

roadman

Quote from: PHLBOS on December 29, 2014, 03:55:44 PM
What possessed the NJTA to reduce the merge area?  A step backwards IMHO.

Their way of flipping the bird at Murray Bodin perhaps?  "We gave you the striping you asked for.  Not our fault if we had to reduce the physical area of the merge to do it."

"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

SignBridge

I have never understood why the NJTA used tapered acceleration lanes instead of parallel acceleration lanes. (As defined in the MUTCD) It seems to me that the parallel lane allows for a safer merge. All the more surprising because this is one of the safest, best engineered highways in America and the NJTA prides itself on that.

In so many other ways the NJTA has always adhered to the safest operations principles like no left hand exits or service-areas, and no rush-hour use of shoulders as traffic lanes. Very puzzling about the acceleration lanes.

cl94

Quote from: SignBridge on December 29, 2014, 08:49:06 PM
I have never understood why the NJTA used tapered acceleration lanes instead of parallel acceleration lanes. (As defined in the MUTCD) It seems to me that the parallel lane allows for a safer merge. All the more surprising because this is one of the safest, best engineered highways in America and the NJTA prides itself on that.

In so many other ways the NJTA has always adhered to the safest operations principles like no left hand exits or service-areas, and no rush-hour use of shoulders as traffic lanes. Very puzzling about the acceleration lanes.

I've never understood tapered acceleration lanes in general. They seem like an accident waiting to happen, but Ohio uses them almost exclusively. New York doesn't, but for some reason, Region 5 built I-990 with them and, while there's room to safely accelerate, nobody does so. If the highway wasn't so underutilized, it might have created issues.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Alps

Quote from: PHLBOS on December 29, 2014, 03:55:44 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 29, 2014, 02:47:13 PM
I think the entire taper, where it straightens out at an angle coming into the Turnpike, is rather lengthy, but the actual merge area is very short.
Which, IMHO, is the issue of contention.

What possessed the NJTA to reduce the merge area?  A step backwards IMHO.
The merge area is standardized. Don't quote me, but it's something like 900 feet from the theoretical gore or 1200 feet from the beginning of the broken stripe or 1500 feet from the beginning of the merge taper tangent. Anyway, regardless, it is a standard on the entire Turnpike. If it "feels" shorter to you than others, maybe it's because traffic is flowing faster without all the congestion, so you have to accelerate to a higher speed to merge. I would be very surprised if it was actually any shorter than standard.

As for taper vs. parallel lane - a 1500 foot taper gives you about 1000 feet of usable space before the lane gets too narrow. A typical accel lane has a 600-900 foot tangent and 300 foot taper - so again, no more than 1000 feet of usable space.

As for lawsuit potential - good luck. If the Authority's design standards are met, and trust me, they've been vetted with state of the industry practice, the plaintiff will lose.

SignBridge

#784
The problem I have with the tapered set-up is the lack of flexibility in merging location. You get to a certain point where you must merge, period. With a parallel lane, you have that thousand or more feet to merge when it's safe to do so. I think that's the better choice. On the other hand we really can't argue with the NJT's level of success in engineering. Their arrangement does seem to work successfully. And the MUTCD shows pavement markings for both configurations, so I guess that's that.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Alps on December 29, 2014, 09:33:05 PM
As for lawsuit potential - good luck. If the Authority's design standards are met, and trust me, they've been vetted with state of the industry practice, the plaintiff will lose.

There is also the small matter of sovereign immunity, which means that the king usually cannot be sued, or in this context that the State of New Jersey cannot usually be sued.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

NJRoadfan

That would be NJSA Title 59.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: SignBridge on December 29, 2014, 09:59:59 PM
The problem I have with the tapered set-up is the lack of flexibility in merging location. You get to a certain point where you must merge, period. With a parallel lane, you have that thousand or more feet to merge when it's safe to do so. I think that's the better choice. On the other hand we really can't argue with the NJT's level of success in engineering. Their arrangement does seem to work successfully. And the MUTCD shows pavement markings for both configurations, so I guess that's that.

There was a Nebraska study that looked at both types of merges.  Overall, the taper merge works better in free-flow conditions; the parallel acceleration merge works better in heavier traffic conditions.  I'd argue the NJ Turnpike leans more to the heavier traffic conditions.

vdeane

Quote from: cl94 on December 29, 2014, 08:55:26 PM
Quote from: SignBridge on December 29, 2014, 08:49:06 PM
I have never understood why the NJTA used tapered acceleration lanes instead of parallel acceleration lanes. (As defined in the MUTCD) It seems to me that the parallel lane allows for a safer merge. All the more surprising because this is one of the safest, best engineered highways in America and the NJTA prides itself on that.

In so many other ways the NJTA has always adhered to the safest operations principles like no left hand exits or service-areas, and no rush-hour use of shoulders as traffic lanes. Very puzzling about the acceleration lanes.

I've never understood tapered acceleration lanes in general. They seem like an accident waiting to happen, but Ohio uses them almost exclusively. New York doesn't, but for some reason, Region 5 built I-990 with them and, while there's room to safely accelerate, nobody does so. If the highway wasn't so underutilized, it might have created issues.
Region 4 has one - Hylan Dr north to I-390 north (exit 13)
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

jeffandnicole

Reviewing the minutes of the November NJTA board meeting was this short passage on page 6 of http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/2014_11-18_BM-Minutes_414_thru_458.pdf , mostly in relation to the recent and ongoing construction projects on the 'pike & Parkway:

"Commissioner Pocino stated that work done under the capital program is great. And the
improvements are making the roadways safer for all motorists. Pocino asked that Engineering
review whether the Turnpike can be widened from two (2) lanes in each direction to three (3)
lanes in each direction between intersections 1 and 4."

Nice.

I'm almost considering taking a ride to one of their board meetings in early 2015 to publically ask for a potential review of a 42/Turnpike interchange.  It'll hardly be the first time someone has said something about this often-requested interchange, but it's good to know that there is at least a small bit of interest in the southern portion of the turnpike which, other than a widened Interchange 1, hasn't really changed much since the Turnpike opened.

bzakharin

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 30, 2014, 02:37:15 PM
Reviewing the minutes of the November NJTA board meeting was this short passage on page 6 of http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/2014_11-18_BM-Minutes_414_thru_458.pdf , mostly in relation to the recent and ongoing construction projects on the 'pike & Parkway:

"Commissioner Pocino stated that work done under the capital program is great. And the
improvements are making the roadways safer for all motorists. Pocino asked that Engineering
review whether the Turnpike can be widened from two (2) lanes in each direction to three (3)
lanes in each direction between intersections 1 and 4."

Nice.

I'm almost considering taking a ride to one of their board meetings in early 2015 to publically ask for a potential review of a 42/Turnpike interchange.  It'll hardly be the first time someone has said something about this often-requested interchange, but it's good to know that there is at least a small bit of interest in the southern portion of the turnpike which, other than a widened Interchange 1, hasn't really changed much since the Turnpike opened.
Aww, but I like having my personal lane entering at exit 4

cpzilliacus

I suppose the N.J. Turnpike Authority could do like New Hampshire and allow alcohol sales at the service plazas, right? 

But I wish the news media would stop calling toll road service plazas rest stops

And I wonder if New Jersey retailers and shopping center owners really want businesses on the state-owned toll roads competing with them?

Press of Atlantic City: N.J. eyes highway rest stop upgrades

QuoteCould the modest souvenir and snack stands that give New Jersey's highway rest stops their grab-and-go ambiance be replaced by upscale Gucci, Louis Vuitton and Tiffany & Co. shops?

QuoteProbably not, but lawmakers are eyeing the Atlantic City Expressway, Garden State Parkway and New Jersey Turnpike as potentially lucrative locations for new retail and business attractions that would generate extra revenue for the state's cash-starved transportation system.

QuoteLegislation making its way through the Statehouse directs the three toll roads to develop plans for more commercial, corporate or retail ventures at their rest stops.

QuoteThe idea is to squeeze more money out of the toll roads – without hitting motorists with another fare or tax increase – to help replenish the state Transportation Trust Fund. The fund is scheduled to run out of money for highway, bridge and mass transit projects starting with the new fiscal year in July unless the Legislature approves higher gasoline taxes or another source of financing.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 30, 2014, 02:37:15 PM
Reviewing the minutes of the November NJTA board meeting was this short passage on page 6 of http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/2014_11-18_BM-Minutes_414_thru_458.pdf , mostly in relation to the recent and ongoing construction projects on the 'pike & Parkway:

"Commissioner Pocino stated that work done under the capital program is great. And the
improvements are making the roadways safer for all motorists. Pocino asked that Engineering
review whether the Turnpike can be widened from two (2) lanes in each direction to three (3)
lanes in each direction between intersections 1 and 4."

Nice.

I'm almost considering taking a ride to one of their board meetings in early 2015 to publically ask for a potential review of a 42/Turnpike interchange.  It'll hardly be the first time someone has said something about this often-requested interchange, but it's good to know that there is at least a small bit of interest in the southern portion of the turnpike which, other than a widened Interchange 1, hasn't really changed much since the Turnpike opened.

Thanks for sharing this.  An Interchange 2A could be the Turnpike's first all-electronic interchange, so a double trumpet could be left out, that would otherwise be needed as long as the Turnpike Authority is collecting cash tolls.

I drive the south end of the Turnpike somewhat frequently, and I actually rather like the four-lane section, old as it is (though not the queues that form approaching the Exit 1 tolls).  That it is nearly straight as an arrow adds something - it's almost like driving on a railroad line. 

If you go to a Turnpike Authority board meeting, please share your experience here.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

NJRoadfan

If there are any alcohol sales, it'll likely be independent liquor stores doing the sales to comply with state law.... which prohibits chains from operating more than two locations with liquor sales. Also don't expect any sales at night after 2AM.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: NJRoadfan on December 30, 2014, 04:58:56 PM
If there are any alcohol sales, it'll likely be independent liquor stores doing the sales to comply with state law.... which prohibits chains from operating more than two locations with liquor sales. Also don't expect any sales at night after 2AM.

Knowing this is just fantasy...

The only state law that applies to times of service is hard liquor can only be sold between 9am and 10pm.  Otherwise, home rule applies - individual towns set limits on when liquor stores can be open.  A liquor store could remain open 24 hours a day if the town permitted it, but only beer and wine could be sold between 10pm and 9am. 

The 2am cutoff you're thinking of is for bars, and even that varies as well.  Some towns may impose a midnight cutoff, others 3am, and others permit bars to be open 24 hours (Atlantic City, for example). 

As far as chains go - there are some "chains" that have numerous locations throughout the state, such as Canals and Joe Canals.  They get around that rule a bit by having different owners own the actual liquor store, and they buy into the Canals franchise.  Since the Walmarts and Walgreens of the state are owned on a corporate level or by shareholders, they are limited to 2 licenses.  Using Wegmans as an example:  Wegmans near Princeton owns the license, and actually permits liquor to be sold anywhere in the store.  Wegmans of Cherry Hill sells liquor, but it's owned by a private corporation who has contracted with Wegmans to have their name on the store.  In this case, the Wegmans Liquors is actually a separate store from Wegman, the grocery store.

Such is the life of selling liquor in NJ.

Anyway, back more on topic:  I think you are going to see more in the way of cell towers and advertising come from this study, more than actual stores.  The toll roads have already expanded their eating options at the service plazas, and Sunoco has added convenience stores in the recent past.  I'm not sure what some of these people - most of whom have no experience in a retail sector - expect people to buy while traveling thru the state on a toll road.  Are we going to see surf boards and beach umbrellas sold at a GSP service area?  Are we going to see dresses and suits sold on the Jersey Turnpike?  Doubtful.

ARMOURERERIC

Quote from: NJRoadfan on December 30, 2014, 12:24:06 AM
That would be NJSA Title 59.

OT, but why did NJ get to keep their sovereign immunity when SCOTUS stripped PA'a

NJRoadfan

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on December 30, 2014, 06:09:58 PM
OT, but why did NJ get to keep their sovereign immunity when SCOTUS stripped PA'a

Don't know, but I can say its a pain in the neck when a government vehicle strikes your parked car and you have to make a claim.

Alps

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 30, 2014, 02:37:15 PM
Reviewing the minutes of the November NJTA board meeting was this short passage on page 6 of http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/2014_11-18_BM-Minutes_414_thru_458.pdf , mostly in relation to the recent and ongoing construction projects on the 'pike & Parkway:

"Commissioner Pocino stated that work done under the capital program is great. And the
improvements are making the roadways safer for all motorists. Pocino asked that Engineering
review whether the Turnpike can be widened from two (2) lanes in each direction to three (3)
lanes in each direction between intersections 1 and 4."

Nice.

I'm almost considering taking a ride to one of their board meetings in early 2015 to publically ask for a potential review of a 42/Turnpike interchange.  It'll hardly be the first time someone has said something about this often-requested interchange, but it's good to know that there is at least a small bit of interest in the southern portion of the turnpike which, other than a widened Interchange 1, hasn't really changed much since the Turnpike opened.
Ints. 1-4 are an interesting beast. There are two questions at play - how much of the perceived problem is actually due to backups radiating up from Delaware Memorial Bridge, and how much will the eventual 95/276 connection draw traffic off of the Turnpike? As the Turnpike adds traffic sensors in that stretch, I'll finally get to play with some real data and see what the answer is.

02 Park Ave

Off hand, does anyone know which bank operates the MAC machines at the service areas on the Turnpike?
C-o-H

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Alps on December 31, 2014, 12:06:08 AM
Ints. 1-4 are an interesting beast. There are two questions at play - how much of the perceived problem is actually due to backups radiating up from Delaware Memorial Bridge, and how much will the eventual 95/276 connection draw traffic off of the Turnpike? As the Turnpike adds traffic sensors in that stretch, I'll finally get to play with some real data and see what the answer is.

You have the sensors there right now.  The sensors are called the cell phones and similar devices (including some fleet vehicles) that all or nearly all N.J. Turnpike patrons have in their vehicles, combined with cell towers, which results in Inrix datasets showing speeds for the entire Turnpike system.  Not saying that sensor data is bad (it is not, and it has some advantages over Inrix, but mostly on arterial-class roads).

You can probably get access to the data for free as well, which is really pretty good for freeway-class roads.  You will have no problem playing with the Inrix data either.

If you wish, I can explain in more detail when I see you in the near future.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.