Extension of MA 2A?

[bob7374]

If you take a look at the following video of a news report covering a water main break on Monday morning (8/12) at the corner of Tremont St and Mass Ave in Boston: http://www.necn.com/08/12/13/Water-restored-to-part-of-Bostons-South-/landing.html?blockID=849235 you will notice about half way through the appearance of several MA route marker assemblies. There is one for MA 28 and a straight arrow and two for MA 2A with East and West banners and right and left arrows.

Last time I checked, MA 2A ended about 1/2 mile to the west at the intersection of Mass Ave and Comm Ave (MA 2). Last month I noticed a new 'To MA 2A' sign at the corner of The Fenway and Boylston St. However, there were no further MA 2A signs approaching or at Mass Ave/Boylston intersection. At the time I just thought the To sign was to help direct people wanting to cross over to Cambridge. Do these two other instances of MA 2A signs further east indicate an extension of the route further down on Mass Ave? And if its logical to end an alternate route at its parent, does this mean they are shifting the route of MA 2 as well? I couldn't find anything on the MassDOT website to indicate 2A (or MA 2's) had been changed.

[Alps]

MA 2 isn't moving, they've just put up new signs along Beacon and Comm.

[PHLBOS]

I may be up that way early next week to see the locations of those signs myself.  My guess is that those 2A signs (w/the directions) southeast of Commonwealth Ave. (MA 2) are likely in error.

[deathtopumpkins]

This is just part of a recent trend towards thoroughly signing state routes in the city. 28 and 9 have gotten an abundance of new signage lately as well.

In fact, new signage for 9 led to an interesting discussion on Universal Hub today: http://www.universalhub.com/2013/citizen-complaint-day-again-stupid-rte-9-signs

[NE2]

Holy crap - they're actually putting up signs? (But yeah, don't block the sidewalk with them. That's bad.)

(And roadman's beating the 128 dead horse again in that discussion.)

[Jim]

I looked into this a bit more for CHM purposes.  The 2012 MassDOT Road Inventory shapefiles still show 2A ending at Commonwealth.

[bob7374]

I may be up that way early next week to see the locations of those signs myself.  My guess is that those 2A signs (w/the directions) southeast of Commonwealth Ave. (MA 2) are likely in error.

If they are an error, then it's a major one. I went out to check out Mass Ave between Tremont and Huntington Aves during lunch hour yesterday (9/5). There are MA 2A reassurance signs in both directions after both the Tremont St and Columbus Ave (MA 28) intersections. There are also West and East 2A signs along Columbus Ave approaching Mass Ave (and MA 28 signs on Mass Ave). Though there are no MA 2A signs at the Huntington Ave intersection which does have new MA 9 East and West arrow signs along Mass Ave.

There is also a 'East 2A' sign along Mass Ave heading toward Cambridge by the Christian Science Plaza. Yes, I said East, all the directional banners I indicated above, along with those first spotted on Tremont, are reversed. There is also a 'West' MA 28 sign on Tremont at the Mass Ave intersection as well. So, either all the 2A signs are in error, or the shields are correct but the directional banners are wrong. I've posted photos on both the NortheastRoads and BostonRoads Facebook group pages, (if you haven't joined, maybe its time to do so  ). I will plan also to post a link when I get the photos posted on my own website by the end of the weekend.

[bob7374]

I've added some of the Mass Ave MA 2A photos I took last week to the bottom of my new blog entry on the I-93 Signage Update project:
http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2013/09/september-i-93-signage-update-plus-mass.html

[roadman]

I inquired about the new MA route signs in the City of Boston and got this response from MassDOT District 6:

This is in response to your e-mail regarding Route Number signage:

MassDOT is in general responsible for the installation and maintenance of Route Number signs. However, recently an unknown organization has started to install route number signs all over the City of Boston.  I have had discussions with the City sign shop and they were unaware of who is installing the signs. MassDOT is not installing these signs, and will not maintain these signs.

[agentsteel53]

recently an unknown organization has started to install route number signs all over the City of Boston.

paging R. Ankrom.

[bob7374]

I inquired about the new MA route signs in the City of Boston and got this response from MassDOT District 6:

This is in response to your e-mail regarding Route Number signage:

MassDOT is in general responsible for the installation and maintenance of Route Number signs. However, recently an unknown organization has started to install route number signs all over the City of Boston.  I have had discussions with the City sign shop and they were unaware of who is installing the signs. MassDOT is not installing these signs, and will not maintain these signs.

Assuming this is the case, and the District 6 response is not an overtly facetious way to avoid admitting they made a mistake with some of their sign placements, and an 'unknown organization' is placing signs along Boston streets, why can't MassDOT or the city simply remove them, since they would have been placed along public streets illegally? Many of the new signs have been there 6 months and longer. It must be a well-funded unknown group since the signs appear to be up to current specs, are mostly mounted on new posts embedded in concrete, and have appeared in many areas of the city. Hope it's not too long before the true sign installer's identity is known.

[mass_citizen]

I inquired about the new MA route signs in the City of Boston and got this response from MassDOT District 6:

This is in response to your e-mail regarding Route Number signage:

MassDOT is in general responsible for the installation and maintenance of Route Number signs. However, recently an unknown organization has started to install route number signs all over the City of Boston.  I have had discussions with the City sign shop and they were unaware of who is installing the signs. MassDOT is not installing these signs, and will not maintain these signs.

Assuming this is the case, and the District 6 response is not an overtly facetious way to avoid admitting they made a mistake with some of their sign placements, and an 'unknown organization' is placing signs along Boston streets, why can't MassDOT or the city simply remove them, since they would have been placed along public streets illegally? Many of the new signs have been there 6 months and longer. It must be a well-funded unknown group since the signs appear to be up to current specs, are mostly mounted on new posts embedded in concrete, and have appeared in many areas of the city. Hope it's not too long before the true sign installer's identity is known.

Rather than remove the signs, how about simply correcting them? If we aren't going to sign state routes within the city than we might as well just truncate the routes at the city line since they are serving no purpose (particularly the ones that terminate in the city itself as opposed to pass through like 28).

I'm wondering if this was the same company that put the route 9 signs up in another article someone quoted? I find it hard to believe the city didn't know about this as i'm sure there was a police detail when the concrete drilling operation was going on since the contractor's equipment was most likely parked on the street.

[bob7374]

Rather than remove the signs, how about simply correcting them? If we aren't going to sign state routes within the city than we might as well just truncate the routes at the city line since they are serving no purpose (particularly the ones that terminate in the city itself as opposed to pass through like 28).

I'm wondering if this was the same company that put the route 9 signs up in another article someone quoted? I find it hard to believe the city didn't know about this as i'm sure there was a police detail when the concrete drilling operation was going on since the contractor's equipment was most likely parked on the street.

Well, if the route signs are where they should be, then I have no problem with them there. But the Route 2A shields are apparently not. I visited the area near the Mass Ave/Comm Ave intersection today and there are new signs along Mass Ave for MA 2 with the correct directions and new guide/paddle signs for MA 2A West to Cambridge, but no references to 2A East. The first 2A sign headed toward Cambridge is correctly marked as West 2A. This confirms to me that 2A East ends still at Comm Ave.

I did spot some more wrong signs. There was a sign for MA 2A put up along Boylston St at Mass Ave heading toward Copley Square placed since I had last been there in mid-June. It had another wrong directional banner. With MA 2A West indicated if you turned right toward Huntington Ave. There was also a MA 2 West arrow sign along Mass Ave at Beacon St. I took a few photos and will provide a link once they have been posted.

[mass_citizen]

Well, if the route signs are where they should be, then I have no problem with them there. But the Route 2A shields are apparently not. I visited the area near the Mass Ave/Comm Ave intersection today and there are new signs along Mass Ave for MA 2 with the correct directions and new guide/paddle signs for MA 2A West to Cambridge, but no references to 2A East. The first 2A sign headed toward Cambridge is correctly marked as West 2A. This confirms to me that 2A East ends still at Comm Ave.

I did spot some more wrong signs. There was a sign for MA 2A put up along Boylston St at Mass Ave heading toward Copley Square placed since I had last been there in mid-June. It had another wrong directional banner. With MA 2A West indicated if you turned right toward Huntington Ave. There was also a MA 2 West arrow sign along Mass Ave at Beacon St. I took a few photos and will provide a link once they have been posted.

I am in full agreement that any incorrect banners or signs should be corrected (and unless there is a "TO" plaque above, any 2A/2 signs on roads that are not actually 2A/2). I did however take a drive through the city and am impressed at the number of signs that were put up. I do like that the effort was finally made to sign these inner city routes. My feeling is that although MassDOT told roadman they will not maintain these signs, they should still look into the ones that are incorrect since part of their duty of signing state routes is to make sure they are signed correctly, whether they were put up by someone else or not. Most would be a simple fix-just unbolt and switch a few banners or rotate some arrows. I noticed there are other new signs for MA 28 and 9 as well. I actually think the contractor did do a good job of laying out and installing the signs (those done correctly)

[bob7374]

I've done some further digging in response to the MassDOT District 6 Office's claims that they do not know who is installing the US 20 and MA 2A, 9, 28, etc. route signs around Boston. Turns out there is an active contract listed on the MassDOT's project listing page: Contract # 67312 -- Construction Contract; Fabrication and Installation of Overhead and Ground Mountain Guide Signs at Various Locations. City of Boston. 28% Complete.

Would 'Guide Signs' cover the placement of route shields, or just the green 'paddle signs?' I visited the area where MA 2A should end. There are new MA 2A Guide Signs at the intersection of Mass. Ave and Comm. Ave, they only indicate one direction for 2A, and unlike the Route 2A shields in the area, these have the correct directional banner-West (have photos posted again on BostonRoads Facebook page). That they seem to have been installed around the same time as the misplaced, or at least misplaced directional, 2A signs along Mass Ave. seems more than just a coincidence IMO. A new West 2A assembly (with arrow pointing East) was put up also further East along Boylston St heading toward Mass Ave from The Fenway since I was previously there in June. It was paired with a new 'To I-90 West' shield (with correct arrow) a few feet away. A new West I-90 shield and arrow were also placed at the on-ramp to the Mass Pike from Mass Ave. Could two different entities be responsible for placing new signs in the same area?

[NE2]

Link to the project: http://www.mhd.state.ma.us/ProjectInfo/Main.asp?ACTION=ViewProject&PROJECT_NO=606234

[mass_citizen]

Link to the project: http://www.mhd.state.ma.us/ProjectInfo/Main.asp?ACTION=ViewProject&PROJECT_NO=606234

My guess would be that this project is for replacing guide signs on a maintenance basis (i.e. one or two at a time, not an entire corridor) throughout district 6 ("various locations") the location is listed as city of Boston most likely because D6 headquarter office is in Boston.

[bob7374]

I've put together most of the MA 2A Mass Ave photos (and some of intersecting routes) I've taken over the past month along with what's been learned so far on whether these are a mistake or not on this page: http://www.gribblenation.net/mass21/miscsigns.html#mass2a Feel free to check it out.

[mass_citizen]

I've put together most of the MA 2A Mass Ave photos (and some of intersecting routes) I've taken over the past month along with what's been learned so far on whether these are a mistake or not on this page: http://www.gribblenation.net/mass21/miscsigns.html#mass2a Feel free to check it out.

Nice work. I also noticed some incorrect directional banners/arrows for MA 9 (Huntington Ave.) in the Museum of Fine Arts area (mostly on side streets). I will try to obtain photos.

[roadman]

Link to the project: http://www.mhd.state.ma.us/ProjectInfo/Main.asp?ACTION=ViewProject&PROJECT_NO=606234

My guess would be that this project is for replacing guide signs on a maintenance basis (i.e. one or two at a time, not an entire corridor) throughout district 6 ("various locations") the location is listed as city of Boston most likely because D6 headquarter office is in Boston.

You are exactly correct.  The contract is a district-wide one for routine sign maintenance.  Installation of a large number of new route markers, like the ones that have been magically appearing in Downtown Boston, would normally be done as a separate stand-alone contract.

[bob7374]

I've put together most of the MA 2A Mass Ave photos (and some of intersecting routes) I've taken over the past month along with what's been learned so far on whether these are a mistake or not on this page: http://www.gribblenation.net/mass21/miscsigns.html#mass2a Feel free to check it out.

Nice work. I also noticed some incorrect directional banners/arrows for MA 9 (Huntington Ave.) in the Museum of Fine Arts area (mostly on side streets). I will try to obtain photos.

Had a chance to drive Commonwealth Ave west from Berkeley St to a few blocks beyond the BU Bridge over the weekend, unfortunately, not with a camera. The MA 2A sign put in at the end of the road going from WB Comm Ave to Mass Ave has only one direction indicated, West, which is correct, but, the arrow is pointing to the left, not the right as it should. Also, there are several new 'West MA 30/US 20' signs west of Kenmore Square (and a 'To West MA 30/US 20' sign prior to the Kenmore lights). I assume the MA 30 signs are in error, like those for 2A east of Comm. Ave.

Even if MassDOT does not know who put up the signs, could they at least reverse arrows, switch directional banners, and/or remove signs that are not correct? Wouldn't a maintenance contract cover these activities? Isn't a sign placed incorrectly just as bad as a missing sign that I assume a replacement of would be installed with maintenance funds? As I've said before, some of these signs have been up for more than 6 months and its obvious that those who did place them are not interested in correcting their mistakes.

[mass_citizen]

I am in full agreement with your statements. MassDOT is responsible for ALL state route signing, including signage that is on roads that are not state maintained. By choosing to shrug their shoulders and allow this many erroneous arrows/banners to not be corrected (especially in Boston, you know, the state capital), they are basically shirking their responsibility-which is prescribed to them by state law. They should instead be looking at it as hey we got some free signs put up and all we have to do is unbolt and flip a few banners, and remove a couple on 2A that are beyond its terminus. Since their was no signs there to begin with (also a fault with their responsibility to sign state routes) it is more like a free gift instead of a PIA. I'm sure if the news did a story on this they would jump to instantly correct the problem since it would reflect badly on them even though they didn't install them. I know news orgs are quick to do any kind of story on state screw ups. 

I also don't relieve the city of fault either since I highly doubt no one was aware of this or at least a dpw supervisor didn't drive by and notice. Also as I said before I'm sure there was a police detail or some kind of parking restriction in effect at the sign locations so the contractor could park his equipment while he is installing the signs in concrete sidewalks. These records would be on file with the police or parking departments.

[bob7374]

I did send an e-mail to the Globe's Starts & Stops blogger (latest post (10/5) at http://boston.com/news/local/blogs/starts-and-stops) about the 2A signs a couple weeks ago, along with a few photos, but have not gotten any response back. Perhaps one of their other columnists would be interested. I was also thinking of sending an e-mail to the project engineer listed for the Boston sign rehab contract I noted earlier.  Good idea or not?

One of the new West Route 30/20 signs on Comm Ave I saw had been hit by something and was leaning over the sidewalk. Wonder if at least that one will be fixed (or removed).

[roadman]

I am in full agreement with your statements. MassDOT is responsible for ALL state route signing, including signage that is on roads that are not state maintained. By choosing to shrug their shoulders and allow this many erroneous arrows/banners to not be corrected (especially in Boston, you know, the state capital), they are basically shirking their responsibility-which is prescribed to them by state law. They should instead be looking at it as hey we got some free signs put up and all we have to do is unbolt and flip a few banners, and remove a couple on 2A that are beyond its terminus. Since their was no signs there to begin with (also a fault with their responsibility to sign state routes) it is more like a free gift instead of a PIA. I'm sure if the news did a story on this they would jump to instantly correct the problem since it would reflect badly on them even though they didn't install them. I know news orgs are quick to do any kind of story on state screw ups. 

I also don't relieve the city of fault either since I highly doubt no one was aware of this or at least a dpw supervisor didn't drive by and notice. Also as I said before I'm sure there was a police detail or some kind of parking restriction in effect at the sign locations so the contractor could park his equipment while he is installing the signs in concrete sidewalks. These records would be on file with the police or parking departments.

Not quite.  Chapter 85, Section 2, of the Massachusetts General Laws states, in part "The department of highways, in this chapter called the department, shall erect and maintain on state highways and on ways leading thereto and therefrom, and on all main highways between cities and towns, such direction signs ....."

State highway refers to actual jurisdiction of the road, and not whether it carries a route number or not.  All the streets and roads where the "mystery markers" have been appering are under City of Boston of jurisdiction, it is entirely possible that these signs were put in without MassDOT's knowledge or participation.

[NE2]

By numbering them as state routes, MassDOT has decided that they are "ways leading thereto and therefrom". They may have been installed without MassDOT oversight, but, now that they are there, they are MassDOT's responsibility.

http://www.leagle.com/decision/2005502444Mass58_1499 may be marginally relevant; it is about the responsibility for an obstructed stop sign where a town-maintained numbered route intersects a state-maintained unnumbered road.