New York City as a control city and other important control citys in MA on I-95

[A00234826]

I know that control citys are important for traffic heading to and from places

I know New York City is an important control city
I saw (New York) as a control city for I-95 north as far south as Baltimore, I think what Maryland did is a great idea

however in New England I-95 is the major route from any New England point to NY city and I only saw (NY city) as control point on I-95 south in southern half of CT and a few in Providence RI.
I think Massachussets and even NH and Maine should start to put up (NY city or New York) as a control city for I-95

for example in Massachussets on I-93 comming to its southern end in Canton and on I-95 Rt-128 in Canton I suggest ( Exit 1A I-95 south Providence RI, New York City) so traffic can get on I-95 south to head to NY and points south.

South of Boston I also suggest on I-95s control point between Exit 12 and 1 especasly in Foxbaro (I-95 south Providence RI, New York City) (I-95 North Boston, To All NH-Maine points).

on Rt-128 I-95 combo I suggest the following
on Rt-2 put up (I-95 south to I-90 mass pike RI-Ct-NY) and (I-95 north Peabody Hampton Beach NH)

North of Boston I suggest on I-95 south (also on I-93 south and US-3) before the Rt-128 jct to put (To Providence RI, New York City use I-95 Rt-128 south) this is important info for trucks with hazardous material because there banned from I-93 tunnels

also unrelated to that  North of Boston on I-95 northbound between Exit 45 and Exit 60 I suggest (I-95 north Hampton Beach NH, Portsmouth NH) so traffic will know how to get to Hampton Beach resort during the summer.

getting back to the topic on the I-95 NH turnpike like at the Hampton toll plaza interchange I suggest to put up (I-95 south to I-495 Boston New York). also on Rt-16 near the end in Portsmouth put up (I-95 south to Rt-101 I-495, Boston New York) so traffic will understand how to get to I-495 and Rt-101 from the north.

in Maine tunrpike southbound near I-295 north of Portland aria I suggest they put a sign (Boston, New York use I-95 south)

anyother suggestions please let me know

[hotdogPi]

I-95 the whole way is not the best way from New York City to I-95 north of Boston.

[machias]

I always cringe when I see "New York City" as a control city because technically there is no such place.  It's the "city of New York", not the "city of New York City". I get what they're trying to do with that control city but it still makes me crazy. Old crankiness and all that.

[Pete from Boston]

I-95 the whole way is not the best way from New York City to I-95 north of Boston.

Only those New Englanders in Maine, far eastern New Hampshire, Massachusetts east of 93 or south of Canton, Rhode Island, and parts of CT should be using 95 as anything but the last leg of their trip to New York.

This is not 'any part of New England,' or even most of it.

I would be really interested in hearing more about whether this solution has a problem to go with it. What percentage of 95 south traffic in Maine is heading to New York? What confusion exists at the moment among drivers driving from Maine and New Hampshire to New York?

[PHLBOS]

Once upon a time, there used to be a supplemental BGS along I-95 South just before the I-495 South Exit (#59) that listed New York.  It was replaced in the 90s without any reference to NYC.

Similarly, along US 1 South in Peabody before the I-95 (MA 128) exit; there used to be supplemental BGS' that listed either New York or New York City for the MA 128 South, then later I-95 South heading.  Such signage was also removed during the 90s.

however in New England I-95 is the major route from any New England point to NY city and I only saw (NY city) as control point on I-95 south in southern half of CT and a few in Providence RI.
I think Massachussets and even NH and Maine should start to put up (NY city or New York) as a control city for I-95

As 1 mentioned, you are aware that I-95 is not the most direct way to NYC from many eastern & northern New England cities?

Heck, along I-95 in MA where it multiplexes w/128; some people freak out (my 77-year-old mother being one of them) when only NH & RI destinations are listed on I-95 BGS' instead of more local MA destinations.

Additionally, listing 2 destinations for one route number in one direction per either pull-thru and/or exit ramp BGS is more often than not discouraged by MUTCD; although many states still do such in certain cases.

I would be really interested in hearing more about whether this solution has a problem to go with it. What percentage of 95 south traffic in Maine is heading to New York? What confusion exists at the moment among drivers driving from Maine and New Hampshire to New York?

Most NYC-bound truckers from either NH & ME that don't have to stop in eastern MA usually use I-95/495/290/90/84/CT-15/I-91/95.  Such is much more direct and is also cheaper; the only toll being I-90/Mass Pike from Auburn (I-290) to Sturbridge (I-84). 

For the OP, Exit 9 BGS off I-90 West for I-84

[roadman65]

I always cringe when I see "New York City" as a control city because technically there is no such place.  It's the "city of New York", not the "city of New York City". I get what they're trying to do with that control city but it still makes me crazy. Old crankiness and all that.

NYSDOT does it on many roads.  Even the NYSTA has it on some of their signage.

I know what you mean, though, as New York is the proper name of the city.  It is not like Kansas City where "City" part of its name.  NJDOT is starting to do it as well.  I-78, I-80 and even I-287 is using "New York City" whereas before it was just plain and simple "New York."  Even new posts on here of the NJ Turnpike 6-9 new signs has "New York City" instead of "New York" as it did for decades.

[PHLBOS]

I know what you mean, though, as New York is the proper name of the city.  It is not like Kansas City where "City" part of its name.  NJDOT is starting to do it as well.  I-78, I-80 and even I-287 is using "New York City" whereas before it was just plain and simple "New York."  Even new posts on here of the NJ Turnpike 6-9 new signs has "New York City" instead of "New York" as it did for decades.

I have to wonder if such practice is a result of the recent MUTCD prohibition of listing states as control cities.  Either DOTs are misinterpreting such prohibition or MUTCD (wrongly IMHO) told DOTs to add City to New York listings.

[1995hoo]

The farthest south I can think of a BGS using "New York City" is northbound I-95 in Virginia at Exit 161.



I don't see any reason to gripe about the word "City" in this situation because it avoids ambiguity. New York State is a big enough place that you wouldn't necessarily want to follow I-95 if you were going to, say, Buffalo.

[Pete from Boston]

Let's not forget Copley Square's affront to the bitter New-York-haters of Boston.  This sign was always my Exhibit A of how New York matters to Boston far more than the other way around, making the "rivalry" often discussed up here a one-sided fiction.

I always cringe when I see "New York City" as a control city because technically there is no such place.  It's the "city of New York", not the "city of New York City". I get what they're trying to do with that control city but it still makes me crazy. Old crankiness and all that.

To people around the City of New York, there's New York (a city), and there's New York State (a state).  At least that's how I grew up looking at it.  "New York City" just makes me think of the cranky rustlers in the old Pace salsa commercial, crying out its exotic name in disgust.

[roadman]

Let's not forget Copley Square's affront to the bitter New-York-haters of Boston.  This sign was always my Exhibit A of how New York matters to Boston far more than the other way around, making the "rivalry" often discussed up here a one-sided fiction

I've been told that "New York" (as opposed to something like Springfield or Albany NY) was included on that sign (which was installed about 1996) to enable the ancient support truss to be re-used - remember, this was the height of the "reuse existing sign supports wherever possible" era in Massachusetts.

please use correct quote tags

[Perfxion]

NYC might be the biggest city in the US, but doesn't need to be the only city listed on the Eastern seaboard. If someone is in Maine, more than likely they are only going as far south as Boston. No need to list NYC on 95 for that. IF someone is in Boston, wouldn't it be faster to go inland and south rather than hug the coast? So shouldn't Providence, RI or New Haven, CT work better? As for Baltimore area going north, both Philly and NYC should be the control cities since the 495/95/295(NJTP as well) split off in Delaware will divert to one of those two cities. 

[shadyjay]

On both I-95 and CT 15 SB in CT, "NY City" is used as the control city south of New Haven.  Once you cross from CT into NY, the control city changes to "New York".  When I see NY City, I think of the 5 boroughs, not just Manhattan.  There's a NYCDOT so why can't NY City be a control city?

I see no reason why NYC should be a control city any point north of Boston.  Maybe supplemental signage, if anything.  RI uses "New York" as a control city but I think it should be supplemented with New London CT. 

[roadman65]

It is like "Miami" is being used as far north as St. Augustine, yet when you get past Palm Bay it changes to "West Palm Beach" because of FDOT district politics.  That is what is between RI and CT on I-95.  RI prefers "NY", but CT will not use it until after New Haven all after "New York" is brought into the picture.  However, at CT 9's southern terminus both "New Haven and NY City" are both used together there.

[machias]

The farthest south I can think of a BGS using "New York City" is northbound I-95 in Virginia at Exit 161.



I don't see any reason to gripe about the word "City" in this situation because it avoids ambiguity. New York State is a big enough place that you wouldn't necessarily want to follow I-95 if you were going to, say, Buffalo.

If you're on I-95 and think you're headed towards Buffalo then you shouldn't be driving a vehicle.

[1995hoo]

The farthest south I can think of a BGS using "New York City" is northbound I-95 in Virginia at Exit 161.



I don't see any reason to gripe about the word "City" in this situation because it avoids ambiguity. New York State is a big enough place that you wouldn't necessarily want to follow I-95 if you were going to, say, Buffalo.

If you're on I-95 and think you're headed towards Buffalo then you shouldn't be driving a vehicle.

Might depend on where you start. Coming from further south, it's perfectly reasonable to go up I-95 to the DC area and swing around to the west before heading up I-270.

Regarding "New York" versus "New York State," my relatives in Brooklyn always regarded "New York" (the city) as referring to the island of Manhattan. The 1898 consolidation might as well never have happened. Of course, Yonkers is Upstate to them too! (BTW, growing up here in Northern Virginia we always said "Washington State" to refer to the state of Washington so as to distinguish from the city....for some reason we didn't call it "DC" back then. Confused the crap out of some college friends of mine who interpreted "Washington State" as referring to a university.)

Ultimately I think people who fuss about "City of New York" versus "New York City" on a sign are being pedantic because the point is for the sign to assist people. "New York City" potentially does that. I also note the city's website is NYC.gov.....

[connroadgeek]

However, at CT 9's southern terminus both "New Haven and NY City" are both used together there.

This is also done in Hartford and also New Britain I believe where 5-15 interchanges with 9 or I-91 (or is it I-84?). If memory serves those signs use the New Haven and N.Y. City as control cities as well.

[machias]

The farthest south I can think of a BGS using "New York City" is northbound I-95 in Virginia at Exit 161.



I don't see any reason to gripe about the word "City" in this situation because it avoids ambiguity. New York State is a big enough place that you wouldn't necessarily want to follow I-95 if you were going to, say, Buffalo.

If you're on I-95 and think you're headed towards Buffalo then you shouldn't be driving a vehicle.

Might depend on where you start. Coming from further south, it's perfectly reasonable to go up I-95 to the DC area and swing around to the west before heading up I-270.

Regarding "New York" versus "New York State," my relatives in Brooklyn always regarded "New York" (the city) as referring to the island of Manhattan. The 1898 consolidation might as well never have happened. Of course, Yonkers is Upstate to them too! (BTW, growing up here in Northern Virginia we always said "Washington State" to refer to the state of Washington so as to distinguish from the city....for some reason we didn't call it "DC" back then. Confused the crap out of some college friends of mine who interpreted "Washington State" as referring to a university.)

Ultimately I think people who fuss about "City of New York" versus "New York City" on a sign are being pedantic because the point is for the sign to assist people. "New York City" potentially does that. I also note the city's website is NYC.gov.....

I guess I'm pedantic. I can deal with that. In today's world where "good enough" warrants a medal, I feel more and more obsolete.

If it makes folks warm and fuzzy to see "New York City" on a guide sign then so be it. Unfortunately they're probably following their GPS and have no idea what the signs say anyway, but for those paying attention to the signs, they'd probably find the information helpful.

[shadyjay]

However, at CT 9's southern terminus both "New Haven and NY City" are both used together there.

This is also done in Hartford and also New Britain I believe where 5-15 interchanges with 9 or I-91 (or is it I-84?). If memory serves those signs use the New Haven and N.Y. City as control cities as well.

The following locations in CT have a secondary control city of NY City:
I-84 WB Exit 57*
I-91 SB at Exit 17**
CT 9 SB at Exit to I-95 SB
CT 9 SB at Exit 20S
CT 15 SB Exit to I-91 SB in Hartford
CT 15 NB Exit to I-91 SB in Hartford

*  The primary control city for this exit is "Charter Oak Bridge".  Interesting that this was chosen and "New Haven" was left out, though this is the primary truck route to/from Boston.

**  There used to be more pull-throughs on I-91 SB in Hartford which also had NY City listed but they were removed in the late 80s/early 90s.

[roadman65]

I have no quarrel with "New York City" being used at all, but I find it interesting that NJDOT is going all out to change "New York" out for this.  For years you have seen signs for "New York" on all major roadways leading to the North Jersey Metro Area, and now all of a sudden since the mid to late 90's NJDOT decided to tack on the "City" to it. 

[KEVIN_224]

However, at CT 9's southern terminus both "New Haven and NY City" are both used together there.

This is also done in Hartford and also New Britain I believe where 5-15 interchanges with 9 or I-91 (or is it I-84?). If memory serves those signs use the New Haven and N.Y. City as control cities as well.

You're referring to Exits 20 N/S of CT Route 9 in Cromwell. Here's how the signs look when heading south at roughly mile marker 30, at the I-91 exits:

http://goo.gl/maps/mgNNo

P.S. US 5/CT 15 [Berlin Turnpike] intersects with CT Route 9 in Berlin, not New Britain.

[Henry]

I always cringe when I see "New York City" as a control city because technically there is no such place.  It's the "city of New York", not the "city of New York City". I get what they're trying to do with that control city but it still makes me crazy. Old crankiness and all that.

I have no quarrel with "New York City" being used at all, but I find it interesting that NJDOT is going all out to change "New York" out for this.  For years you have seen signs for "New York" on all major roadways leading to the North Jersey Metro Area, and now all of a sudden since the mid to late 90's NJDOT decided to tack on the "City" to it. 

At least we have an "Oklahoma City" and two "Kansas City"s, so why can't we have a "New York City" as well? Each example does a great job distinguishing itself from the state that it's named after.

[roadman65]

Have you looked at the two Kanas City's?  If you travel SB I-29 at I-635 you will see that "Kanas City" is on the pull through sign only for I-29 which goes to the Missouri city.  I-635, that goes to the Kansas city of Kansas City, is signed with the state name of "Kansas." 

Apparently Missouri does not want to share the name with the neighboring state even though I-29 is the route from the Kansas City Airport which is for both Kansas City's.  Meanwhile those heading to Kansas might be confused at the I-635 exit and stay straight through on I-29 which goes to the Missouri city as they may think that "Kansas" is for the other points in the Sunflower State and that name of "Kansas City'  on the pull through there is for both places.

[PHLBOS]

I've been told that "New York" (as opposed to something like Springfield or Albany NY) was included on that sign (which was installed about 1996) to enable the ancient support truss to be re-used - remember, this was the height of the "reuse existing sign supports wherever possible" era in Massachusetts.

IIRC, that particular BGS and gantry replaced the original 60s-era button-copy BGS (legend likely read Mass Pike Points West) and single-post style gantry.  Looking at the GSV of the current BGS & gantry, one can clearly tell that the gantry is not from the mid-60s.

The likely real reason for the Turnpike Authority using New York for its I-90 West entrance ramp signage for that area is to direct the various NYC-bound busses from the bus terminal(s) that were/are in that area.

[Pete from Boston]

I always cringe when I see "New York City" as a control city because technically there is no such place.  It's the "city of New York", not the "city of New York City". I get what they're trying to do with that control city but it still makes me crazy. Old crankiness and all that.

I have no quarrel with "New York City" being used at all, but I find it interesting that NJDOT is going all out to change "New York" out for this.  For years you have seen signs for "New York" on all major roadways leading to the North Jersey Metro Area, and now all of a sudden since the mid to late 90's NJDOT decided to tack on the "City" to it. 

At least we have an "Oklahoma City" and two "Kansas City"s, so why can't we have a "New York City" as well? Each example does a great job distinguishing itself from the state that it's named after.

Well, in common parlance, clearly we can and do.  The point that has been made is that the name of those places are, respectively, City of Oklahoma City, and City of Kansas City. The city at the mouth of the Hudson is called City of New York, period. 

In fact, "the city" is probably far more common locally than "New York City."  Years after moving away from there, I still mean New York 90% of the time I refer to "the city."  I've heard people express disdain for the conceit apparent in this usage, but what are you gonna do?  When New York is the standard of "city" you grow up with, it's pretty much the only one.

(Interestingly, out in the boroughs "the city" generally refers to Manhattan, while in New Jersey it's pretty much everything across the Hudson.)

[A00234826]

I've been told that "New York" (as opposed to something like Springfield or Albany NY) was included on that sign (which was installed about 1996) to enable the ancient support truss to be re-used - remember, this was the height of the "reuse existing sign supports wherever possible" era in Massachusetts.

IIRC, that particular BGS and gantry replaced the original 60s-era button-copy BGS (legend likely read Mass Pike Points West) and single-post style gantry.  Looking at the GSV of the current BGS & gantry, one can clearly tell that the gantry is not from the mid-60s.

The likely real reason for the Turnpike Authority using New York for its I-90 West entrance ramp signage for that area is to direct the various NYC-bound busses from the bus terminal(s) that were/are in that area.

hmm why not stay on I-95 because it gose to NY city, there other ways to get to NY city from Boston without paying the mass pike like I-93 (southeast expressway)south to Canton to Exit 1 to I-95 south (toll free)
from the south like Cape Cod I suggest to put up on Rt-25 entering I-195 (I-195 west Providence RI, New York City)
I also suggest on I-93 south Braintree split a sign (New York City use I-93 to I-95 south)