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Regional Boards => Pacific Southwest => Topic started by: Max Rockatansky on May 07, 2019, 12:51:21 AM

Title: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 07, 2019, 12:51:21 AM
Recently I drove the entirety of I-405/San Diego Freeway headed southbound.  As per usual I'm working up a blog series on I-405 and it's history back to CA 7/LRN 158.  My full photo set from I-405 can be found below:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmD6EBCW

Given the importance of I-405 I'm making maps showing the evolution from CA 7/LRN 158 to the modern freeway.  I just completed the first three of said maps; the first shows the full extent of CA 7 in 1934 before large chunks were replaced by US 6/US 395:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32850380007_ecbd37b71f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S3SMuc)X1 1934 (https://flic.kr/p/S3SMuc) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

CA 7 on LRN 158 was aligned on Sepulveda Boulevard.  The original definition had CA 7 ended at LRN 60 which was originally CA 3 and became US 101A by 1935.  The 1935 Division of Highways Map of Los Angeles shows Sepulveda Boulevard ending at CA 26/LRN 173 at Pico Boulevard.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33916841148_29b3645dfa_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TF7Fef)X2 1935 (https://flic.kr/p/TF7Fef) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

The 1938 State Highway Map City insert shows CA 7/LRN 158 completed on Sepulveda Boulevard all the way to US 101A.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32850379897_420ec4e976_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S3SMsi)X3 1938 (https://flic.kr/p/S3SMsi) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 07, 2019, 10:11:23 AM
Found this Lost L.A. article showing the early construction of Sepulveda Boulevard before the state took it over as LRN 158:

https://www.kcet.org/shows/lost-la/how-sepulveda-canyon-became-the-405
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: TheStranger on May 07, 2019, 01:13:25 PM
Quick question:

What era was the Hawthorne Boulevard/Route 107 corridor part of Route 7?  (Also, interesting to see a 3 digit child route that early in the history of California's numbered roads, excluding the short-lived 440 and 740)

Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 07, 2019, 01:48:18 PM
It's actually shown on the full version of the 1938 City Insert Map. 

http://www.davidrumsey.com/ll/thumbnailView.html?startUrl=%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fas%2Fsearch%3Fos%3D0%26bs%3D10%26lc%3DRUMSEY~8~1%26q%3DCaltrans%25201938%26sort%3DPub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&r=0&xywh=1298%2C10145%2C1060%2C1877Yeah

I suppose 107 makes sense in the context that 7 it probably would have been easier just to route 7 directly to LRN 60 rather than have it take a wild curve to make it to Torrence.  This 1934 Department of Public Works Map shows 7 on the future route of 107 to Torrence:

https://archive.org/stream/californiahighwa193436calirich#page/n275/mode/2up
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2019, 12:38:19 AM
Blew up the map snips I did in the original post.  Here is the new map snips showing the progression from LRN 158-to-CA 7-to-I-405 that will be in the upcoming Gribblenation blog:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46892129765_122dfcb9ff.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2erGqtX)Z1 1934 (https://flic.kr/p/2erGqtX) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33931558348_1fdcacc9f2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TGq795)Z2 1934 (https://flic.kr/p/TGq795) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46892129705_70e18e0dde_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2erGqsV)Z3 1934 (https://flic.kr/p/2erGqsV) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32864948817_e049c337ca.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S5ashz)Z4 1934 (https://flic.kr/p/S5ashz) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33931558158_347b04f99b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TGq75N)Z5 1938 City Insert (https://flic.kr/p/TGq75N) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46892129595_4b8e347ac4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2erGqr2)Z6 1948 (https://flic.kr/p/2erGqr2) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33931557998_e1b1b25303_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TGq733)Z7 1952 (https://flic.kr/p/TGq733) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33931557058_a6bfc1f19f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TGq6KQ)Z8 1959 (https://flic.kr/p/TGq6KQ) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46892128955_0dd4a9e1d2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2erGqeZ)Z9 1961 (https://flic.kr/p/2erGqeZ) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32864947437_727ff3347b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S5arSM)Z10 1963 (https://flic.kr/p/S5arSM) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33931556828_8b0bedf95c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TGq6FS)Z11 1963 (https://flic.kr/p/TGq6FS) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32864947187_58d11cbd7f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S5arNt)Z13 1964 (https://flic.kr/p/S5arNt) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33931556708_6f5f92f361_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TGq6DN)Z12 1964 (https://flic.kr/p/TGq6DN) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33931556498_b3873736ec_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TGq6Ab)Z14 1965 (https://flic.kr/p/TGq6Ab) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46892128635_f19ea7286a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2erGq9t)Z15 1966 (https://flic.kr/p/2erGq9t) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33931556358_c873b1fabd_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TGq6xL)Z16 1967 (https://flic.kr/p/TGq6xL) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46892128525_93b28aff15_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2erGq7z)Z17 1969 (https://flic.kr/p/2erGq7z) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: skluth on May 09, 2019, 01:18:23 AM
^^^^^^^^^

Great portrayal of the development of the 405. Thanks.
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: TheStranger on May 09, 2019, 01:13:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 07, 2019, 01:48:18 PM
It's actually shown on the full version of the 1938 City Insert Map. 

http://www.davidrumsey.com/ll/thumbnailView.html?startUrl=%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fas%2Fsearch%3Fos%3D0%26bs%3D10%26lc%3DRUMSEY~8~1%26q%3DCaltrans%25201938%26sort%3DPub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&r=0&xywh=1298%2C10145%2C1060%2C1877Yeah

I suppose 107 makes sense in the context that 7 it probably would have been easier just to route 7 directly to LRN 60 rather than have it take a wild curve to make it to Torrence.  This 1934 Department of Public Works Map shows 7 on the future route of 107 to Torrence:

https://archive.org/stream/californiahighwa193436calirich#page/n275/mode/2up

Something that just occurred to me:

When Route 107 was part of the original Route 7, the Hawthorne corridor represented one of the best illustrations in Southern California of how the 1934 route numbering system worked geographically!

From west to east:

Route 3 (later US 101A, now Route 1) - Pacific Coast Highway
original Route 7 (now Route 107 to Hawthorne, and paralleled by modern I-405 between Ladera Heights and Hawthorne) - Hawthorne Boulevard
Route 11 (now I-110) - Figueroa Street corridor
Route 15 (later post-1964 Route 7, now I-710) - Atlantic Avenue corridor
Route 19 - Lakewood Boulevard

Route 23 and 27 then started another iteration of the north-south every-four-numbers grid, then with 31 skipped for some reason, 35 (on the corridor later supplanted by I-605) and 39 continued the pattern.

(It just occurred to me the same exact thing happened in the Bay Area: Route 1 as the westernmost route, then Route 5 (now Route 35), then Route 9, then the original Route 13 (later modern Route 17/I-880), then Route 21 (now I-680).  However, after that, 25/29/33/37 don't have quite the same geographic tie, making me wonder if this type of clustering in 1934 focused on urban areas)
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2019, 06:02:04 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on May 09, 2019, 01:13:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 07, 2019, 01:48:18 PM
It's actually shown on the full version of the 1938 City Insert Map. 

http://www.davidrumsey.com/ll/thumbnailView.html?startUrl=%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fas%2Fsearch%3Fos%3D0%26bs%3D10%26lc%3DRUMSEY~8~1%26q%3DCaltrans%25201938%26sort%3DPub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&r=0&xywh=1298%2C10145%2C1060%2C1877Yeah

I suppose 107 makes sense in the context that 7 it probably would have been easier just to route 7 directly to LRN 60 rather than have it take a wild curve to make it to Torrence.  This 1934 Department of Public Works Map shows 7 on the future route of 107 to Torrence:

https://archive.org/stream/californiahighwa193436calirich#page/n275/mode/2up

Something that just occurred to me:

When Route 107 was part of the original Route 7, the Hawthorne corridor represented one of the best illustrations in Southern California of how the 1934 route numbering system worked geographically!

From west to east:

Route 3 (later US 101A, now Route 1) - Pacific Coast Highway
original Route 7 (now Route 107 to Hawthorne, and paralleled by modern I-405 between Ladera Heights and Hawthorne) - Hawthorne Boulevard
Route 11 (now I-110) - Figueroa Street corridor
Route 15 (later post-1964 Route 7, now I-710) - Atlantic Avenue corridor
Route 19 - Lakewood Boulevard

Route 23 and 27 then started another iteration of the north-south every-four-numbers grid, then with 31 skipped for some reason, 35 (on the corridor later supplanted by I-605) and 39 continued the pattern.

(It just occurred to me the same exact thing happened in the Bay Area: Route 1 as the westernmost route, then Route 5 (now Route 35), then Route 9, then the original Route 13 (later modern Route 17/I-880), then Route 21 (now I-680).  However, after that, 25/29/33/37 don't have quite the same geographic tie, making me wonder if this type of clustering in 1934 focused on urban areas)

The whole convention was a state wide thing in geographic clusters in the original 1934 Highway grid design.  My personal favorite is 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36 and 44 gradually ascending northward from Stockton.
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2019, 06:07:04 PM
Just finished my blog on I-405/San Diego Freeway.  I wanted to go with a different angle with I-405 and go more into the backstory of the original CA 7.  The original CA 7 was a massive State Highway which was largely replaced by US Route extensions in the 1930s.  CA 7 played a huge part in getting transportation through Sepulveda Pass via Legislative Route Number 158.  I find it interesting to see what was a somewhat minor corridor and relative late addition to the State Highway system grow rapidly into one of the most important commuter routes in the entire State.  I included close to twenty vintage map snips regarding the development of I-405 and a couple articles regarding the Carmageddon events involving the 1960 Mulholland Drive Bridge being replaced:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2019/05/interstate-405-carmageddon-on-san-diego.html
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: GaryA on May 09, 2019, 06:25:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2019, 06:07:04 PM
Just finished my blog on I-405/San Diego Freeway.  I wanted to go with a different angle with I-405 and go more into the backstory of the original CA 7.  The original CA 7 was a massive State Highway which was largely replaced by US Route extensions in the 1930s.  CA 7 played a huge part in getting transportation through Sepulveda Pass via Legislative Route Number 158.  I find it interesting to see what was a somewhat minor corridor and relative late addition to the State Highway system grow rapidly into one of the most important commuter routes in the entire State.  I included close to twenty vintage map snips regarding the development of I-405 and a couple articles regarding the Carmageddon events involving the 1960 Mulholland Drive Bridge being replaced:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2019/05/interstate-405-carmageddon-on-san-diego.html

It's probably worth noting that County Highway N7 is a further extension of CA 107 southward from CA 1 to the end of the road at Palos Verdes Dr.  I don't know whether the N7 number was a deliberate reference to CA 107, but it sounds plausible (N7 was defined long after 107 was split off from 7).

Not sure how well it's signed these days, it's been quite a while since I was down that direction and most county highway signage is dwindling. 
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2019, 06:38:15 PM
Quote from: GaryA on May 09, 2019, 06:25:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2019, 06:07:04 PM
Just finished my blog on I-405/San Diego Freeway.  I wanted to go with a different angle with I-405 and go more into the backstory of the original CA 7.  The original CA 7 was a massive State Highway which was largely replaced by US Route extensions in the 1930s.  CA 7 played a huge part in getting transportation through Sepulveda Pass via Legislative Route Number 158.  I find it interesting to see what was a somewhat minor corridor and relative late addition to the State Highway system grow rapidly into one of the most important commuter routes in the entire State.  I included close to twenty vintage map snips regarding the development of I-405 and a couple articles regarding the Carmageddon events involving the 1960 Mulholland Drive Bridge being replaced:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2019/05/interstate-405-carmageddon-on-san-diego.html

It's probably worth noting that County Highway N7 is a further extension of CA 107 southward from CA 1 to the end of the road at Palos Verdes Dr.  I don't know whether the N7 number was a deliberate reference to CA 107, but it sounds plausible (N7 was defined long after 107 was split off from 7).

Not sure how well it's signed these days, it's been quite a while since I was down that direction and most county highway signage is dwindling.

Its possible since there County Routes out there like J59 and J132 which are deliberate extensions of State Highways.  Apparently N7 was signed in 1964 which makes me think someone knew what they were doing picking said number.
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Bickendan on May 09, 2019, 08:36:21 PM
CA/LRN 95 is what became US 395, it looks from the maps above. Is 395 more related to this LRN than to US 95 then, as there's no direct relation to US 95 outside of US 195?
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2019, 08:57:17 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on May 09, 2019, 08:36:21 PM
CA/LRN 95 is what became US 395, it looks from the maps above. Is 395 more related to this LRN than to US 95 then, as there's no direct relation to US 95 outside of US 195?

LRN 95 was actually a very small state highway, CA 7 was on the majority of LRN 23.  Strangely US 95 took over the route of the first CA 195, I always thought that was an ironic numbering.
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Bickendan on May 10, 2019, 03:40:37 AM
OK, so CA 95 + most of CA 7 became US 395 (and US 6 the southern portion of CA 7), and CA 195 became US 95, while LRN 95 was another (short) animal? 
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: TheStranger on May 10, 2019, 04:16:26 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2019, 06:02:04 PM

The whole convention was a state wide thing in geographic clusters in the original 1934 Highway grid design.  My personal favorite is 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36 and 44 gradually ascending northward from Stockton.
It's amazing how a couple of still-extant east-west state routes in Southern California also fall under this every-four grid, but in a southward ascending sequence:

Route 2 (partially also one-time US 66) - Santa Monica Boulevard
6 - Olympic Boulevard corridor, later Route 26 after US 6 was commissioned, then I-10 supplanted it.  (Wonder if the 26 number is related to it being formerly 6, kinda like 107 was derived from 7)
10 - Firestone Boulevard/Manchester Avenue.  Later given designation of Route 42 in the late 1950s when I-10 was created.
14 - Artesia Boulevard.  Subsumed by Route 91 in 1964 which took over part of old US 91, old Route 18, and this road.
Route 18 - the Riverside Freeway corridor at the time.  Interesting to note that the existing part of Route 18 after 1964 includes the original segment of road from Victorville east to Big Bear Lake, but this portion of road that was correct within the 1934 grid has not been part of the route for decades.
Route 22 - Garden Grove Boulevard and later the parallel Garden Grove Freeway.  Still pretty much as it was originally defined!
26 - Bolsa Avenue.  Looks to be one of the earliest signed routes removed from the state system (when the number was recycled along Olympic several years later), with Bolsa no longer being continuous through the city of Seal Beach due to a naval facility established around World War II.  Cahighways does identify LRN 183 though as possibly along Westminster Boulevard, which is still a through route in that area.
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2019, 12:20:24 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on May 10, 2019, 04:16:26 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2019, 06:02:04 PM

The whole convention was a state wide thing in geographic clusters in the original 1934 Highway grid design.  My personal favorite is 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36 and 44 gradually ascending northward from Stockton.
It's amazing how a couple of still-extant east-west state routes in Southern California also fall under this every-four grid, but in a southward ascending sequence:

Route 2 (partially also one-time US 66) - Santa Monica Boulevard
6 - Olympic Boulevard corridor, later Route 26 after US 6 was commissioned, then I-10 supplanted it.  (Wonder if the 26 number is related to it being formerly 6, kinda like 107 was derived from 7)
10 - Firestone Boulevard/Manchester Avenue.  Later given designation of Route 42 in the late 1950s when I-10 was created.
14 - Artesia Boulevard.  Subsumed by Route 91 in 1964 which took over part of old US 91, old Route 18, and this road.
Route 18 - the Riverside Freeway corridor at the time.  Interesting to note that the existing part of Route 18 after 1964 includes the original segment of road from Victorville east to Big Bear Lake, but this portion of road that was correct within the 1934 grid has not been part of the route for decades.
Route 22 - Garden Grove Boulevard and later the parallel Garden Grove Freeway.  Still pretty much as it was originally defined!
26 - Bolsa Avenue.  Looks to be one of the earliest signed routes removed from the state system (when the number was recycled along Olympic several years later), with Bolsa no longer being continuous through the city of Seal Beach due to a naval facility established around World War II.  Cahighways does identify LRN 183 though as possibly along Westminster Boulevard, which is still a through route in that area.

Some of the triple digits has the pattern too like 104, 108, 120, 132, 140, 152, 168 and 180 ascending southward.  I argue 178, 190 and 198 is a small small reverse of the same pattern facing northward. 
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: SoCal Kid on May 13, 2019, 08:13:09 PM
Man, looking at old maps and comparing them to today. Can be quite bizarre.
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 13, 2019, 08:34:35 PM
Quote from: SoCal Kid on May 13, 2019, 08:13:09 PM
Man, looking at old maps and comparing them to today. Can be quite bizarre.

Essentially almost every road before the 1930s followed the terrain.  Some of the really old routes like the Dutch Flat and Donner Lake Road resemble more of a hiking trail today than a road someone would drive on.  Anything pre-1940 tends to capture my interest for a visit. 
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: bing101 on May 18, 2019, 07:09:20 PM
Dang I never knew CA-7 went as far north as Alturas and in the alignment where US-395 is at today.

Plus CA-14 was in the alignment of old CA-7 too in the Santa Clarita area until US-6, took that spot.
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: TheStranger on May 18, 2019, 09:12:11 PM
Quote from: bing101 on May 18, 2019, 07:09:20 PM

Plus CA-14 was in the alignment of old CA-7 too in the Santa Clarita area until US-6, took that spot.

Other way around:

The original designation for Sierra Highway et al. was Route 7 from 1934-1936, then US 6 from 1936-1964, then the Antelope Valley Freeway in that corridor was built as Route 14.  (Though there is the short portion of Sierra Highway that received that infamous Route 14U designation)
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: skluth on May 19, 2019, 02:34:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2019, 12:38:19 AM
Blew up the map snips I did in the original post.  Here is the new map snips showing the progression from LRN 158-to-CA 7-to-I-405 that will be in the upcoming Gribblenation blog:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46892128955_0dd4a9e1d2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2erGqeZ)Z9 1961 (https://flic.kr/p/2erGqeZ) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32864947437_727ff3347b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S5arSM)Z10 1963 (https://flic.kr/p/S5arSM) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr


Great stuff as usual, Max. I'm curious if anyone knows about the LRN 160 going NW from Hollywood in these two map snips. It looks like a highway, possibly a freeway, was once planned through Laurel Canyon.
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: nexus73 on May 19, 2019, 03:05:14 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 13, 2019, 08:34:35 PM
Quote from: SoCal Kid on May 13, 2019, 08:13:09 PM
Man, looking at old maps and comparing them to today. Can be quite bizarre.

Essentially almost every road before the 1930s followed the terrain.  Some of the really old routes like the Dutch Flat and Donner Lake Road resemble more of a hiking trail today than a road someone would drive on.  Anything pre-1940 tends to capture my interest for a visit. 

Then you will love driving the old 101 sections from Brookings to Reedsport.  Talk about following the terrain!  Some beautiful banked corners are on the section between North Bend and Hauser.  A few straight stretches combine with plenty of curves to show how the old times were.

Then you get some early postwar expressway to check out between Coos Bay and Coquille.  Between the parts which ODOT modernized and the original sections, you can get quite the contrast between highway building then and now.

Rick
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 19, 2019, 03:09:32 PM
Quote from: skluth on May 19, 2019, 02:34:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2019, 12:38:19 AM
Blew up the map snips I did in the original post.  Here is the new map snips showing the progression from LRN 158-to-CA 7-to-I-405 that will be in the upcoming Gribblenation blog:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46892128955_0dd4a9e1d2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2erGqeZ)Z9 1961 (https://flic.kr/p/2erGqeZ) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32864947437_727ff3347b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S5arSM)Z10 1963 (https://flic.kr/p/S5arSM) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr


Great stuff as usual, Max. I'm curious if anyone knows about the LRN 160 going NW from Hollywood in these two map snips. It looks like a highway, possibly a freeway, was once planned through Laurel Canyon.

That's unbuilt Laurel Canyon Freeway, the LRN dates back to 1933:

https://www.cahighways.org/153-160.html#160
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: skluth on May 22, 2019, 11:09:54 AM
^^^^^^^

Thanks Max
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: SoCal Kid on May 22, 2019, 04:32:36 PM
Only two exits were built for Laurel Cyn Fwy (maybe 3, dont quote me on that)
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: TheStranger on May 22, 2019, 05:28:17 PM
Quote from: SoCal Kid on May 22, 2019, 04:32:36 PM
Only two exits were built for Laurel Cyn Fwy (maybe 3, dont quote me on that)

That's a reference to the section of freeway along La Cienega, right?  The two exits on that stretch are Slauson Avenue and the Kenneth Hahn State Recreation Area.
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: SoCal Kid on May 22, 2019, 05:32:37 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on May 22, 2019, 05:28:17 PM
Quote from: SoCal Kid on May 22, 2019, 04:32:36 PM
Only two exits were built for Laurel Cyn Fwy (maybe 3, dont quote me on that)

That's a reference to the section of freeway along La Cienega, right?  The two exits on that stretch are Slauson Avenue and the Kenneth Hahn State Recreation Area.
yes
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Plutonic Panda on October 31, 2022, 03:46:49 AM
Here's a second by second comparison of the freeway in 1988 VS 2022

Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Quillz on October 31, 2022, 10:32:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2019, 08:57:17 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on May 09, 2019, 08:36:21 PM
CA/LRN 95 is what became US 395, it looks from the maps above. Is 395 more related to this LRN than to US 95 then, as there's no direct relation to US 95 outside of US 195?

LRN 95 was actually a very small state highway, CA 7 was on the majority of LRN 23.  Strangely US 95 took over the route of the first CA 195, I always thought that was an ironic numbering.
Based on another post you made the other day, I think the reason why CA-195 was chosen (as well as original CA-95) was because they were the highest possible two- and three-digit routes available for SoCal. Just like 96 was put at the top of the state and 94 and 98 put at the bottom of the state, at the time, 95 and 195 were the farther east routes. The only question is why 95 was put where it was instead of 127, but this might be because two-digit routes seemed to say closer to major cities.
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: bing101 on November 01, 2022, 09:50:10 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 31, 2022, 03:46:49 AM
Here's a second by second comparison of the freeway in 1988 VS 2022


That is a cool one to see how that part of Los Angeles has changed over the years.
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: Bigmikelakers on January 23, 2023, 03:08:14 AM
I was interested in seeing what Metro had in store for the future of the 405 and found this list from their site. A big project that stood out was extending the express lanes that are now being constructed in Orange County all the way up to the 105. A few others that stood out included improving the 10/405 interchange and even adding an HOV lane from the 405 to LAX. If this stuff ever happens, who knows.

The list is in the documents section:

https://www.metro.net/projects/i-405-comprehensive-multimodal-corridor-plan/
Title: Re: I-405; the San Diego Freeway
Post by: cahwyguy on January 26, 2023, 12:16:39 AM
Here's an interesting question I thought about driving home from work (on the 405): some of the mileage in the pass has R postmiles. That means it was realigned after the 1964 designation. So does this mean that some portions of Sepulveda were actually (perhaps unsigned) Route 405 between 7/1/1964 and when the freeway was constructed?