AARoads Forum

I hate the move. It screws up the geography of the Big 10 even more than Rutgers joining did.

It totally goes against a traditional B1G rule: a school could only join if it is in a state that borders a state with another school.  This is why UConn couldn't join; the nearest school is Rutgers (which was allowed because of Penn State), so it would take a school in NY state (eg Syracuse) to join before any New England school could ever join.

Rutgers makes more sense than either USC or UCLA, although I understand the skepticism. In any event, it seems that we are heading towards two classes of college football: the elite (Big 10/SEC) and everyone else. 

As a Purdue Alumnus, I am not excited about the proposed Big Ten expansion.  For one, I am a traditionalist, and I grew up with the traditional conference lineups.  I attended college when the Big Ten only had ten schools, what a concept, which was several years before even Penn State joined the conference.  The biggest reason I am opposed is that Purdue will likely end up being little more than a bottom-feeder in this super conference, at least in football.  Hopefully, we can still beat IU.

Two things attract a conference to a school:

1) Football success
2) Popular in a large TV market

Penn State and Nebraska got added because of 1)
Maryland and Rutgers got added because of 2)
USC qualifies on both counts, and that carried enough weight that they could bring UCLA with them.

Of course there's one team that has not only had success but is very popular in every large TV market outside of the deep south and the BIG will be doing whatever they can to add that team.

I don't particularly like the continuing dominoes falling where one realignment leads to another. Part of what makes college sports fun are longtime rivalries, and those are being scrapped in pursuit of TV money. I recognize the business of sports and that it's no different, in principle, from pro teams losing a free agent to a bigger offer or having to trade or not re-sign a player due to the salary cap. But casting aside 70+ year rivalries takes away a lot of what made college sports interesting to watch.

I read something interesting that suggested that Notre Dame will remain independent as long as they have a path to the playoff and that, in turn, the SEC's self-interest is to help Notre Dame maintain that path because the alternative is to see Notre Dame join the Big Ten, which the SEC doesn't want for obvious reasons. (I think it's generally accepted that a Jesuit institution is highly unlikely ever to join the SEC.)

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 08, 2022, 09:25:48 AM
Two things attract a school to a conference

1) Football success
2) Popular in a large TV market

Penn State and Nebraska got added because of 1)
Maryland and Rutgers got added because of 2)
USC qualifies on both counts, and that carried enough weight that they could bring UCLA with them.

Of course there's one team that has not only had success but is very popular in every large TV market outside of the deep south and the BIG will be doing whatever they can to add that team.

I believe you meant to write that those 2 things make a school attractive to a conference. The things that attract a school to a conference are $ and $$. Maryland made it clear those were the reasons they joined the B1G.

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 08, 2022, 09:31:48 AM
I don't particularly like the continuing dominoes falling where one realignment leads to another. Part of what makes college sports fun are longtime rivalries, and those are being scrapped in pursuit of TV money. I recognize the business of sports and that it's no different, in principle, from pro teams losing a free agent to a bigger offer or having to trade or not re-sign a player due to the salary cap. But casting aside 70+ year rivalries takes away a lot of what made college sports interesting to watch.

I read something interesting that suggested that Notre Dame will remain independent as long as they have a path to the playoff and that, in turn, the SEC's self-interest is to help Notre Dame maintain that path because the alternative is to see Notre Dame join the Big Ten, which the SEC doesn't want for obvious reasons. (I think it's generally accepted that a Jesuit institution is highly unlikely ever to join the SEC.)

1) Notre Dame is Catholic but not Jesuit, yet your point remains that ND is culturally incompatible with the SEC yet the larger issue is that the SEC is secondary to the BIG in the largest TV markets of NY/Chi/LA.

2) You're right in that ND to the BIG would be bad for the SEC. The SEC poaching Clemson and Florida St from the ACC would pretty much force ND into the BIG but I don't know if the SEC is looking at it this way.

Ultimately everything is going to hinge on whether the ACC continues to exist in a form that provides ND with a level of competition and access to recruiting-rich areas in NC/GA/FL that allows them to remain independent.

Another factor is whether the BIG wants ND badly enough to give ND some of the benefits they've had as an independent in guaranteeing them a game in California every Thanksgiving weekend and no noon start times for home games.

Quote from: davewiecking on July 08, 2022, 09:36:17 AM

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 08, 2022, 09:25:48 AM
Two things attract a school to a conference

1) Football success
2) Popular in a large TV market

Penn State and Nebraska got added because of 1)
Maryland and Rutgers got added because of 2)
USC qualifies on both counts, and that carried enough weight that they could bring UCLA with them.

Of course there's one team that has not only had success but is very popular in every large TV market outside of the deep south and the BIG will be doing whatever they can to add that team.

I believe you meant to write that those 2 things make a school attractive to a conference. The things that attract a school to a conference are $ and $$. Maryland made it clear those were the reasons they joined the B1G.

You're correct in that I had that backwards. I edited it.

I can see non-Rose Bowl Michigan games now in California, so yes.  If this signals the beginning of the destruction of the NCAA even better.

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 08, 2022, 09:31:48 AM
I don't particularly like the continuing dominoes falling where one realignment leads to another. Part of what makes college sports fun are longtime rivalries, and those are being scrapped in pursuit of TV money. I recognize the business of sports and that it's no different, in principle, from pro teams losing a free agent to a bigger offer or having to trade or not re-sign a player due to the salary cap. But casting aside 70+ year rivalries takes away a lot of what made college sports interesting to watch.

I agree 100% with all of this.

Those rivalries and tradition are why college sports - especially football - are such a great money maker. I do wonder if at some point with all these clearly money-oriented realignments, the schools and conferences may bite off more than they can chew and wind up losing some of their public interest (and money-making ability).

Its clear the Big10 just wants to compete with the SEC for the championship, make a super conference or tourney for the national title. Conferences like the Big12, ACC, and Pac12 now need to either recruit G5 teams or die off/merge.

Quote from: ET21 on July 08, 2022, 01:21:46 PM
Its clear the Big10 just wants to compete with the SEC for the championship, make a super conference or tourney for the national title. Conferences like the Big12, ACC, and Pac12 now need to either recruit G5 teams or die off/merge.

Big 12 is clearly the third biggest with the recent news. They should be able to poach from the other conferences as they see fit.

Quote from: ET21 on July 08, 2022, 01:21:46 PM
Its clear the Big10 just wants to compete with the SEC for the championship, make a super conference or tourney for the national title. Conferences like the Big12, ACC, and Pac12 now need to either recruit G5 teams or die off/merge.

The ACC has a problem in that respect: If they add additional members that would affect their TV deal, it means they would have to reopen the "Grant of Rights" agreement that currently binds the members to the league. That, in turn, makes it possible for current members (e.g., Clemson) to jump to other leagues without the significant penalty they'd incur under the existing grant of rights. There's pretty much one potential member that would make it feasible to renegotiate the TV deal and reopen the grant of rights. No prizes for guessing which university that is (hint: it's already an ACC member for most sports except football). Whether there is a snowball's chance in hell of that ever happening is a totally different question, of course.

Glad that most people agree with me. USC and UCLA have been in the pac for close to a century. Also, what happens to the rose bowl?

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2022, 03:02:08 PM
Glad that most people agree with me. USC and UCLA have been in the pac for close to a century. Also, what happens to the rose bowl?

I mean, for UCLA at least, that's an irrelevant question. :D (Haven't been since '99)

Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on July 08, 2022, 06:32:13 AM
As a Purdue Alumnus, I am not excited about the proposed Big Ten expansion.  For one, I am a traditionalist, and I grew up with the traditional conference lineups.  I attended college when the Big Ten only had ten schools, what a concept, which was several years before even Penn State joined the conference.  The biggest reason I am opposed is that Purdue will likely end up being little more than a bottom-feeder in this super conference, at least in football.  Hopefully, we can still beat IU.

As a Michigan fan, I'm tired of this. I'm fine with 16 teams but WHY THESE TWO can we PLEASE have them ANYWHERE near the Midwest?

Why even have conferences? What game mechanic does that add?

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 08, 2022, 11:06:28 PM
Why even have conferences? What game mechanic does that add?

Well otherwise the top funded teams - maybe 40 of them total - will all just schedule each other as much as possible and eventually become their own elite group that no one else has a shot with.

Quote from: Alps on July 08, 2022, 11:44:43 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 08, 2022, 11:06:28 PM
Why even have conferences? What game mechanic does that add?

Well otherwise the top funded teams - maybe 40 of them total - will all just schedule each other as much as possible and eventually become their own elite group that no one else has a shot with.

AKA the SEC's and Big Ten's dream come true?

Quote from: Alps on July 08, 2022, 11:44:43 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 08, 2022, 11:06:28 PM
Why even have conferences? What game mechanic does that add?

Well otherwise the top funded teams - maybe 40 of them total - will all just schedule each other as much as possible and eventually become their own elite group that no one else has a shot with.

So why doesn't something like the NCAA (not necessarily the NCAA itself because it sucks) handle the scheduling nationwide?

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 09, 2022, 12:03:48 AM

Quote from: Alps on July 08, 2022, 11:44:43 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 08, 2022, 11:06:28 PM
Why even have conferences? What game mechanic does that add?

Well otherwise the top funded teams - maybe 40 of them total - will all just schedule each other as much as possible and eventually become their own elite group that no one else has a shot with.

So why doesn't something like the NCAA (not necessarily the NCAA itself because it sucks) handle the scheduling nationwide?

The schools could just abandon the NCAA.

Quote from: Alps on July 08, 2022, 11:44:43 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 08, 2022, 11:06:28 PM
Why even have conferences? What game mechanic does that add?

Well otherwise the top funded teams - maybe 40 of them total - will all just schedule each other as much as possible and eventually become their own elite group that no one else has a shot with.

Would they? If given the chance, I think they'd all play teams they thought they could beat. That is, pretty much every game would be a cupcake game.

I wonder if these moves have anything to do with the new NIL (name, image, likeness) controversies now that the student-athlete compensation genie has left the bottle.

Quote from: Alps on July 08, 2022, 11:44:43 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 08, 2022, 11:06:28 PM
Why even have conferences? What game mechanic does that add?

Well otherwise the top funded teams - maybe 40 of them total - will all just schedule each other as much as possible and eventually become their own elite group that no one else has a shot with.

And then they can call it the NFL minor leagues, and end the pretense of getting an education.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 09, 2022, 12:03:48 AM

Quote from: Alps on July 08, 2022, 11:44:43 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 08, 2022, 11:06:28 PM
Why even have conferences? What game mechanic does that add?

Well otherwise the top funded teams - maybe 40 of them total - will all just schedule each other as much as possible and eventually become their own elite group that no one else has a shot with.

So why doesn't something like the NCAA (not necessarily the NCAA itself because it sucks) handle the scheduling nationwide?

Prior to 1990, conferences were really just groups of similar schools in similar parts of the country, and their functions were as much academic as they were athletic. There were also dozens of independent schools. From 1982-1989, 7 of the 8 national championships were won by independents.

As ESPN grew in distribution throughout the 1980s, the number of games on national TV also grew. Conferences were a stable source of games for TV networks looking to show larger numbers of games, so conferences started getting TV deals that generated more revenue than independent schools could on their own.

In 1991, Florida State joined the ACC and all of the major eastern independent schools minus Penn State joined the Big East, which hadn't previously had a football league. In 1992, South Carolina joined the SEC, who also raided the SWC for Arkansas. That single domino really kicked off (pun intended) the conference realignment shell game that continues today.

The NCAA is a voluntary organization. They can only impose rules that its members are willing to live by. With TV network money being the driving factor that makes college football go, and conferences being the vehicles by which that money gets distributed, the strongest conferences really hold all the cards when it comes to making the rules for the top level of college football.

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on July 09, 2022, 06:10:06 AM
I wonder if these moves have anything to do with the new NIL (name, image, likeness) controversies now that the student-athlete compensation genie has left the bottle.

And that compensation will likely, IMHO, also be subject to all of the rules of Title IX, bringing us all that much closer to the end of of competitive, (ie, NCAA, intercollegiate and even interscholastic/High School) sports and their replacement with the overseas private sports club model, including promotion and relegation.  Few, if any current schools will be able to afford and have athletic departments under that.  I can see no other long term outcome.  Any bets on ow long this pending conference change will endure?

Mike

I think the real problem (that others have mentioned) is that each conferences and colleges are fighting over money. You get better recruits, you win more games, you get more money. You have a popular team from another conference join yours, you get more publicity, you get more money. You invite an FCS team to play a cupcake game in your stadium, they pay for the exposure, you get more money. You expand your stadium, you get more capacity for fans, you get more money. You join a new conference, you get a larger TV market, you get more money.

I think it's time that CFB puts aside money and actually focuses on giving the fans and players what they want. What do the fans want? Here's what I would want, for example.

- Less Bowl Games (or find a way to make them more interesting)
It's clear to me that bowl games are ruining the sport. Instead of giving your players and team a chance to shine in a nationally televised game, regardless of where your team is from, now bowl games have turned into a meaningless formality that players skip because of how pointless they are. Do you really want to play in the Camellia Bowl, in the great tourist destination of Montgomery, Alabama, against some other crappy 6-6 Middle Westeastern State team? Of course not! Maybe we should turn the concept of bowl games into end-of-the-year tournaments or invitationals (sort of like the NIT) of 4 to 8 teams that actually mean something. Plus they should be a bit more exclusive.

- Rethink Football Conferences
Football conferences need to be rethought. Conferences should likely be a bit smaller and not contain divisions. I also would not want conference championship games if that (and the bowl game invitational idea) is the case. I also see no reason for football and other college sports to share the same conferences.

- Larger Playoff
This would be beating a dead horse. Already expounded upon all over the internet.

- More P5 vs. P5 Non-Conference Games And Less Cupcake Games
Sure, having a tune-up game for stronger teams is fine, but please make it against G5 competition, not FCS (maybe G5 teams could use FCS teams as their tune-up). In addition, I would like to see something like the SEC-Big 12 challenge in NCAAB for football for every conference (and rotate the conferences every year to keep it interesting). Match up teams based on last year's placement and watch the good times roll. It makes teams' SoS look better, too.

- Revival Of Certain Rivalries
I wish that certain rivalries like LSU-Tulane, Texas-Texas A&M, and Kansas-Missouri could be played every year again, even if the teams end up in separate conferences.

Quote from: CoreySamson on July 09, 2022, 05:39:34 PM
- Less Bowl Games (or find a way to make them more interesting)
It's clear to me that bowl games are ruining the sport. Instead of giving your players and team a chance to shine in a nationally televised game, regardless of where your team is from, now bowl games have turned into a meaningless formality that players skip because of how pointless they are. Do you really want to play in the Camellia Bowl, in the great tourist destination of Montgomery, Alabama, against some other crappy 6-6 Middle Westeastern State team? Of course not! Maybe we should turn the concept of bowl games into end-of-the-year tournaments or invitationals (sort of like the NIT) of 4 to 8 teams that actually mean something. Plus they should be a bit more exclusive.

So every bowl game, even the most minor one, comes with additional days of practice you don't get if you don't make a bowl game. That's a huge edge in getting your non-graduating players ready for next year, so even the worst destination for a bowl game is better than no bowl game.

Now, there are ways to improve it. As it is now, the first weekend after Thanksgiving is reserved for conference championship games and the next weekend is reserved for the Army-Navy game. Let's move the mid-major conference championship games to Thanksgiving weekend so they can start their bowl games earlier and we can get them more spread out.

Quote from: CoreySamson on July 09, 2022, 05:39:34 PM
- Rethink Football Conferences
Football conferences need to be rethought. Conferences should likely be a bit smaller and not contain divisions. I also would not want conference championship games if that (and the bowl game invitational idea) is the case. I also see no reason for football and other college sports to share the same conferences.

The ship has sailed on this. TV money is going to dictate conference alignments.

Quote from: CoreySamson on July 09, 2022, 05:39:34 PM
- Larger Playoff
This would be beating a dead horse. Already expounded upon all over the internet.

This will eventually get to 8 teams but the current round of conference musical chairs needs to settle first.

Quote from: CoreySamson on July 09, 2022, 05:39:34 PM
- More P5 vs. P5 Non-Conference Games And Less Cupcake Games
Sure, having a tune-up game for stronger teams is fine, but please make it against G5 competition, not FCS (maybe G5 teams could use FCS teams as their tune-up). In addition, I would like to see something like the SEC-Big 12 challenge in NCAAB for football for every conference (and rotate the conferences every year to keep it interesting). Match up teams based on last year's placement and watch the good times roll. It makes teams' SoS look better, too.

This would be nice but there's no way to force this unless all of the other conferences gang up on one. Alabama hasn't played a game outside of an SEC state or California since 2011. The only games they play against other P5 teams are at "neutral' sites in the south and never against Top Tier P5 teams.

Quote from: CoreySamson on July 09, 2022, 05:39:34 PM
- Revival Of Certain Rivalries
I wish that certain rivalries like LSU-Tulane, Texas-Texas A&M, and Kansas-Missouri could be played every year again, even if the teams end up in separate conferences.

So Texas and A&M will be in the same conference again so that rivalry probably returns. Nebraska-Oklahoma, Pitt-West Virginia are two that I'd like to see come back. Ones that we might lose depending on how all this realignment shakes out are Cal-Stanford, Oregon-Oregon St, and Oklahoma-Oklahoma St

The top out-of-conference rivalry I'd like to see return to UVA's schedule is the annual non-conference game against VPI.  :biggrin:

IMHO,

- More or less, two of the major sports use colleges as their prep leagues, basketball and football.  Two use minor leagues, baseball and hockey.  And minor league baseball makes, well, 10s of $$.  Minor league hockey less than that.  The secret to college sports is two groups of people at the opposite end of society in most other respects.  One, the "red" side, are people, most of whom never went to college, or at least to the college in question, who are fans of this or that team because it is named for their state, or in some cases city.  People convinced that Kentucky, or North Carolina, or LSU, or Ohio State is somehow "us".  The other, the "blue" side, are the children of privilege, who, out of the 1000s of college choices they have, self-select themselves to places like Duke, or Villanova, or Gonzaga, so that they can spend 4 years conducting themselves like hooligans and the remainder of their lives, sit around the country club and talk about how "we" beat "you" to their rich buddies.  All based on the feats of people who would not be allowed on campus if they didn't play sports.  Take those two things away, and does anybody really care?  Kill the last vestiage of Kansas somehow being the team for Kansans to root for, and is it any more than the AA team in Wichita?  Take away the idea that Duke is somehow a part of Duke, is it any more than a G-League team in Durham, NC?

- It seems that there are two reasons to pay players.  One is, well, capitalism.  I give player A X$$ and my sales go up by more than X$$.  That, does not seem to be happening.  Rather is the other.  I am a big fan of State U, and I giver player A X$$ because I want him to go to State U and beat Tech.  OK.  But why?  Kill the connection between the school and the booster, and why wouldn't a booster just not buy a pro team where he can run it and be known.  Quick, name the top 30 boosters of any college team, or for that matter 30 college boosters.  But most people know at least that many pro sports owners. 

Quote from: CoreySamson on July 09, 2022, 05:39:34 PM
I think it's time that CFB puts aside money and actually focuses on giving the fans and players what they want. What do the fans want?

Pfft. I think we've all been on this earth long enough to realize that money is the single deciding factor in almost everything that large, rich entities do.

College football is not going to make the changes that a lot of us want until it is financially logical for them to do so. If we keep watching, they're going to continue to turn the sport into Walmart NFL. The answer is to stop watching and stop supporting it, because that's how you hit them in the only place it actually hurts - the bottom line.

We need someone to be the boss of the schools. IDK who.

One of the reasons realignment keeps happening is that football and men's basketball are the big revenue sports for most colleges. Football especially, since that alone pays for all the other sports at a lot of schools. Look for the top football and men's basketball schools to continue looking for more and more money going forward.

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on July 10, 2022, 07:40:34 PM
One of the reasons realignment keeps happening is that football and men's basketball are the big revenue sports for most colleges. Football especially, since that alone pays for all the other sports at a lot of schools. Look for the top football and men's basketball schools to continue looking for more and more money going forward.

Football and basketball aren't even in the same universe when it comes to money. Duke and Kansas are two of the most recognizable basketball programs there are and neither is ever getting invited to the BIG or SEC.

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 10, 2022, 08:15:35 PM

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on July 10, 2022, 07:40:34 PM
One of the reasons realignment keeps happening is that football and men's basketball are the big revenue sports for most colleges. Football especially, since that alone pays for all the other sports at a lot of schools. Look for the top football and men's basketball schools to continue looking for more and more money going forward.

Football and basketball aren't even in the same universe when it comes to money. Duke and Kansas are two of the most recognizable basketball programs there are and neither is ever getting invited to the BIG or SEC.

I wouldn't be so sure on KU never getting a Big 10 invite. There have been a great many rumors over the past 5 years. After Notre Dame, which other Midwestern university would be more attractive? I get football isn't great yet, but the fan base is very much there.

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 10, 2022, 08:15:35 PM
Football and basketball aren't even in the same universe when it comes to money. Duke and Kansas are two of the most recognizable basketball programs there are and neither is ever getting invited to the BIG or SEC.

If the ACC were to dissolve at some point, I could see Duke working its way into the Big East, and either dropping football entirely or playing football only in a smaller G5 conference

Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 10, 2022, 09:20:21 PM

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 10, 2022, 08:15:35 PM

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on July 10, 2022, 07:40:34 PM
One of the reasons realignment keeps happening is that football and men's basketball are the big revenue sports for most colleges. Football especially, since that alone pays for all the other sports at a lot of schools. Look for the top football and men's basketball schools to continue looking for more and more money going forward.

Football and basketball aren't even in the same universe when it comes to money. Duke and Kansas are two of the most recognizable basketball programs there are and neither is ever getting invited to the BIG or SEC.

I wouldn't be so sure on KU never getting a Big 10 invite. There have been a great many rumors over the past 5 years. After Notre Dame, which other Midwestern university would be more attractive? I get football isn't great yet, but the fan base is very much there.

I don't think the BIG is really interested in more Midwestern markets. Aside from ND, their main targets are probably other Pac 12 schools.

ND is already in the B1G in men's hockey.

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 10, 2022, 09:22:32 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 10, 2022, 09:20:21 PM

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 10, 2022, 08:15:35 PM

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on July 10, 2022, 07:40:34 PM
One of the reasons realignment keeps happening is that football and men's basketball are the big revenue sports for most colleges. Football especially, since that alone pays for all the other sports at a lot of schools. Look for the top football and men's basketball schools to continue looking for more and more money going forward.

Football and basketball aren't even in the same universe when it comes to money. Duke and Kansas are two of the most recognizable basketball programs there are and neither is ever getting invited to the BIG or SEC.

I wouldn't be so sure on KU never getting a Big 10 invite. There have been a great many rumors over the past 5 years. After Notre Dame, which other Midwestern university would be more attractive? I get football isn't great yet, but the fan base is very much there.

I don't think the BIG is really interested in more Midwestern markets. Aside from ND, their main targets are probably other Pac 12 schools.

But the LA schools don't want that. Their main recruiting competitors are Oregon and Washington. There is zero chance they want them in the Big 10. If they wanted them, they would have already been invited to come with.

Quote from: Big John on July 10, 2022, 09:23:43 PM
ND is already in the B1G in men's hockey.

Most of the other sports are in the ACC and their football has a modified ACC heavy schedule. Would be a decent overhaul

And my disillusionment with college sports continues its long, downward spiral.

This is where the sport is heading:

https://www.theringer.com/college-football/2022/7/12/23205250/college-football-realignment-mess-usc-ucla-big-ten-sec

We are never going to see conference play such as the Big 8 and Pac 8 of the 1970's, the ACC and Big East of the 1980's, and the SEC of the 1990's among the major college teams.  If one wants to watch longer term rivalry matchups, one would have to watch Division I-AA, err FCS games, which seem to have retained some semblance of normalcy of conference stabilization.

Even some of the mid-major conference currently have some wonky geographical set-ups.  For example, Creighton (Omaha) plays in the Big East along with some of original members St. John's, Providence, Villanova, and Georgetown.  Another is Southern Methodist University (Dallas) playing in the American Athletic Conference with Temple, East Carolina, and South Florida.

What may happen is that the Power 5 becomes the Power 4 since the Pac-10 (or 12, whatever) is losing two of its most recognizable schools.  Then college football may get what it wanted all along, champions from the 4 major conferences participating in the College Football Playoffs.  This may lead to a Group of 6 instead of the Group of 5 to headline many of the New Year's Day Bowl Games.

Anyway, all of us know the motivational factor for college programs to switch conferences: $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$.  Screw the long-term rivalries--see the green.

Quote from: mgk920 on July 09, 2022, 01:32:59 PM

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on July 09, 2022, 06:10:06 AM
I wonder if these moves have anything to do with the new NIL (name, image, likeness) controversies now that the student-athlete compensation genie has left the bottle.

And that compensation will likely, IMHO, also be subject to all of the rules of Title IX, bringing us all that much closer to the end of of competitive, (ie, NCAA, intercollegiate and even interscholastic/High School) sports and their replacement with the overseas private sports club model, including promotion and relegation.  Few, if any current schools will be able to afford and have athletic departments under that.  I can see no other long term outcome.  Any bets on ow long this pending conference change will endure?

Mike

Title IX prohibits discrimination based on sex in education programs and activities if the school receives federal funding (which is all NCAA schools) which effectively requires schools to equally fund women's athletics. NIL is money going directly to players from private businesses though schools may be walking tightropes to make sure boosters remain independent from any school involvement. Private businesses do not have to support female athletes equally in their commercials and endorsements though it's cool Jonquel Jones (State Farm) and Megan Rapinoe (Subway) are making commercials usually featuring just men. FWIW, Caitlin Clark may end up with more in NIL money than any other Iowa athlete, male or female.

The BIG is finalizing an unprecedented deal that will put games on FOX at Noon, CBS at 3:30 and NBC at 7:30/8:00 (all times ET). Deal would begin in Fall 2023 and put the rest of the games on FS1, BTN and Peacock, with the same networks getting rights to basketball as well.

Maybe I'll just listen to Badgers games on my AM radio, instead.  The pictures are a lot clearer that way, anyways.

:nod:

Mike

The Big Ten should commit to getting away from Disney/ABC/ESPN for all sports, not just the major ones. Leave more programming space on the Disney networks for SEC etc.

Quote from: ran4sh on August 09, 2022, 12:45:10 PM
The Big Ten should commit to getting away from Disney/ABC/ESPN for all sports, not just the major ones. Leave more programming space on the Disney networks for SEC etc.

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on August 09, 2022, 12:00:00 PM
The BIG is finalizing an unprecedented deal that will put games on FOX at Noon, CBS at 3:30 and NBC at 7:30/8:00 (all times ET). Deal would begin in Fall 2023 and put the rest of the games on FS1, BTN and Peacock, with the same networks getting rights to basketball as well.

The BIG is, in fact, moving away from ESPN/Disney for all sports. Just announced a $7 billion deal with FOX/CBS/NBC. 2023 will be a transition year, but beginning in 2024, there will be three games on national broadcast networks every Saturday from Labor Day weekend to Thanksgiving weekend, plus two games on Black Friday and of course the BIG Championship game (which the three networks will share).

Peacock gets a limited selection of streaming-only games. FS1 gets a slate of games, and BTN gets the rest. FOX, CBS, FS1, BTN and Peacock also get basketball games.

- Disney (ESPN) has had, for decades, a policy.  To the extent it is possible, if ESPN doesn't have rights to that league, it does not get mentioned.  Yes, they have to cover some big things, like the NCAA basketball or who won the World Series, but regular day in day out stuff just get ignored. Ex: NHL for 20 years.  Now, I haven't watched Sports Center in years, but people do, and it does matter. 

- CBS made a H U G E mistake.  It walked away from a similar priced deal with the SEC, which will now be 100% on the Disney networks, and then realized it had nothing to show on Saturdays in the fall and got in with the Big 10.  The Big 10 will be crushed in the ratings by the SEC, every week.

I've long felt that Kentucky ought to join the B1G. The football team would be more competitive for a conference championship, and the basketball programs are stronger than in the SEC.

Quote from: SP Cook on August 18, 2022, 10:47:18 AM
- Disney (ESPN) has had, for decades, a policy.  To the extent it is possible, if ESPN doesn't have rights to that league, it does not get mentioned.  Yes, they have to cover some big things, like the NCAA basketball or who won the World Series, but regular day in day out stuff just get ignored. Ex: NHL for 20 years.  Now, I haven't watched Sports Center in years, but people do, and it does matter. 

- CBS made a H U G E mistake.  It walked away from a similar priced deal with the SEC, which will now be 100% on the Disney networks, and then realized it had nothing to show on Saturdays in the fall and got in with the Big 10.  The Big 10 will be crushed in the ratings by the SEC, every week.

In 2021, 5 of the top 10 games in TV ratings were BIG games (or nonconference games where the BIG team was the home team) compared to 3 for the SEC and 2 for the ACC, so your claim about getting crushed in the ratings does not hold water.

The SEC has some very premium conference matchups, but their teams are afraid of playing farther north than Lexington so they have very few non-conference games to supplement that. Florida-FSU has lost its luster, Georgia-Ga Tech and Clemson-Scar have become very one-sided and nobody more than 20 miles from Kentucky's borders care about UK-UL.

In all of CBS' years of showing SEC games, they featured exactly one game with a team farther north than Lexington and that was Notre Dame at Georgia, because Georgia is apparently the only SEC team not afraid of going north (though they insisted that the game in South Bend be in September when the weather is better).

So, no, CBS is not going to suffer a bit by swapping out the SEC for the BIG.

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on August 18, 2022, 12:25:18 PM

The SEC has some very premium conference matchups, but their teams are afraid of playing farther north than Lexington so they have very few non-conference games to supplement that. Florida-FSU has lost its luster, Georgia-Ga Tech and Clemson-Scar have become very one-sided and nobody more than 20 miles from Kentucky's borders care about UK-UL.

Those are all SEC-ACC matchups and in-state rivalries. UK used to open with Louisville every year, but the conferences talked the schools into moving the game to the last one of the season so it could be hyped for TV as one of the "rivalry week" games.