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[kernals12]

https://www.catskillmountainkeeper.org/rt_17_expansion_2_6_23

Gaia worshippers are gunning after the widening Rt 17.

[dgolub]

https://www.catskillmountainkeeper.org/rt_17_expansion_2_6_23

Gaia worshippers are gunning after the widening Rt 17.

"Increased mass transit?"  In a rural area like the Catskills?  Keep dreaming...

[kalvado]

https://www.catskillmountainkeeper.org/rt_17_expansion_2_6_23

Gaia worshippers are gunning after the widening Rt 17.

"Increased mass transit?"  In a rural area like the Catskills?  Keep dreaming...

If 6 lanes are called for, it's not rural Catskills. More public transportation options for west side of Hudson was also called for when Tappan Zee replacement was discussed. It's not as crazy logistics wise to have a rail crossing and more rail commute for that area (crazy finance wise, though)
Now completion of I-86 is a completely different story, pun intended

[Rothman]

https://www.catskillmountainkeeper.org/rt_17_expansion_2_6_23

Gaia worshippers are gunning after the widening Rt 17.

"Increased mass transit?"  In a rural area like the Catskills?  Keep dreaming...

Decades ago, there was talk about providing more rail lines of some sort between the City or Westchester and Rockland Counties and the resorts/camps in the Catskills.

Due to the expected religious affiliation of the possible passengers back then, this led to someone making a very tasteless joke about the proposal that actually had a hand in killing the entire idea.

[seicer]

https://www.catskillmountainkeeper.org/rt_17_expansion_2_6_23

Gaia worshippers are gunning after the widening Rt 17.

"Increased mass transit?"  In a rural area like the Catskills?  Keep dreaming...

If 6 lanes are called for, it's not rural Catskills. More public transportation options for west side of Hudson was also called for when Tappan Zee replacement was discussed. It's not as crazy logistics wise to have a rail crossing and more rail commute for that area (crazy finance wise, though)
Now completion of I-86 is a completely different story, pun intended

I would disagree. Weekend traffic can completely overwhelm NY 17 from Monticello eastward. Even though the Catskills tourism industry has shifted from its over-reliance on Jewish-owned resorts in the Borscht Belt, it still has a considerable amount of traffic for its many other destinations - including the new Legoland. The many, many Jewish summer camps and settlements also generate a lot of traffic - to the point of creating very slow-moving traffic for dozens of miles on Friday and Sunday nights (unfortunately finding this out too many times). There is enough traffic to justify six lanes east of Monticello. I just wish the state was more aggressive in the closure of obsolete and duplicate highway ramps now, but at the least most will be taken care of in future projects.

[webny99]

However, I would also argue that east of Monticello is not truly "rural" either, at least relative to northern Sullivan and Delaware counties.

[froggie]

Not sure widening 17 is worth it unless/until NYSTA widens the Thruway between 287 and Harriman.  Especially eastbound/southbound, any widening of 17 will just shift the bottleneck to the Thruway.

[kalvado]

https://www.catskillmountainkeeper.org/rt_17_expansion_2_6_23

Gaia worshippers are gunning after the widening Rt 17.

"Increased mass transit?"  In a rural area like the Catskills?  Keep dreaming...

If 6 lanes are called for, it's not rural Catskills. More public transportation options for west side of Hudson was also called for when Tappan Zee replacement was discussed. It's not as crazy logistics wise to have a rail crossing and more rail commute for that area (crazy finance wise, though)
Now completion of I-86 is a completely different story, pun intended

I would disagree. Weekend traffic can completely overwhelm NY 17 from Monticello eastward. Even though the Catskills tourism industry has shifted from its over-reliance on Jewish-owned resorts in the Borscht Belt, it still has a considerable amount of traffic for its many other destinations - including the new Legoland. The many, many Jewish summer camps and settlements also generate a lot of traffic - to the point of creating very slow-moving traffic for dozens of miles on Friday and Sunday nights (unfortunately finding this out too many times). There is enough traffic to justify six lanes east of Monticello. I just wish the state was more aggressive in the closure of obsolete and duplicate highway ramps now, but at the least most will be taken care of in future projects.

So, correct me if I am wrong, but there are multiple factors pulling preferences in multiple directions

- more public transportation for commute would be great
- but that is too expensive, we have to use existing roads instead, improvement is cheaper
- but weekend traffic is overwhelming, and cannot be served by trains
- but as @Alps tells us, look at 90% service availability, not at peaks
- and Adirondacks and Catskills are running beyond visitor's capacity (I have to reluctantly agree with that), so more visitor throughput isn't  the goal
- traffic distribution capacity may not be there, as @froggie points out.
- I-86 for long haul traffic!

[kernals12]

https://www.catskillmountainkeeper.org/rt_17_expansion_2_6_23

Gaia worshippers are gunning after the widening Rt 17.

"Increased mass transit?"  In a rural area like the Catskills?  Keep dreaming...

They want everyone else to live in crowded cities and get around on the bus so they can keep their bucolic paradise

[Roadgeek Adam]

if I'm reading the protest right, there's no guarantees it has to be Route 17-focused mass transit, but buses to Monticello probably would not hurt anyone.

That said I support not widening 17 west of 119. We don't need 6 lanes through that stretch.

[D-Dey65]

A little NY 25A/Washington Spy Trail History;
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/vacation-ideas--336221928443286018/


https://washingtonspytrail.com/

https://www.catskillmountainkeeper.org/rt_17_expansion_2_6_23

Gaia worshippers are gunning after the widening Rt 17.

"Increased mass transit?"  In a rural area like the Catskills?  Keep dreaming...

They want everyone else to live in crowded cities and get around on the bus so they can keep their bucolic paradise

That pretty much describes every anti-highway organization, most notably the Tri-State Transportation Campaign, the Affiliated Brookhaven Civics Organizations, and the "Campaign to Save Route 25A."

[Jim]

It's been a while since I traveled to any of the Northway north of Exit 30, and was surprised to see a highest elevation on I-87 sign.  Anyone know if that's relatively new or if I just never noticed it on earlier trips up that way?

[vdeane]

Something interesting I became aware of today... apparently Mt. McGregor Road in Wilton has reference markers denoting it as route 948.  There's no current or former reference route for the road listed on Empire State Roads, and the number doesn't even correspond to the current format.  I know of two others that are similarly marked - Freemans Bridge Road (949) and Glen Cove Road (904), but those are both current reference routes (911F and 900B, respectively).  Does anyone know about these old 900 series numbers?

[Rothman]

Something interesting I became aware of today... apparently Mt. McGregor Road in Wilton has reference markers denoting it as route 948.  There's no current or former reference route for the road listed on Empire State Roads, and the number doesn't even correspond to the current format.  I know of two others that are similarly marked - Freemans Bridge Road (949) and Glen Cove Road (904), but those are both current reference routes (911F and 900B, respectively).  Does anyone know about these old 900 series numbers?

Did you blow off some dust on an old copy of the Sufficiency Manual?  Probably is in there somewhere.

[dgolub]

Something interesting I became aware of today... apparently Mt. McGregor Road in Wilton has reference markers denoting it as route 948.  There's no current or former reference route for the road listed on Empire State Roads, and the number doesn't even correspond to the current format.  I know of two others that are similarly marked - Freemans Bridge Road (949) and Glen Cove Road (904), but those are both current reference routes (911F and 900B, respectively).  Does anyone know about these old 900 series numbers?

Back when I was in college, I tried to do a FOIL request for old reference route numbers, but they didn't have anything.  I assume that these numbers predate the current reference route system, and they've been retained on the reference markers in the same way that NY 900F = NY 25C and NY 900W = NY 27A.  According to the reference route listings on Empire State Roads, there were a bunch of others, but when I've poked around on Google Street View, I haven't been able to find any reference markers for most of them.

[dgolub]

For example, at http://www.empirestateroads.com/sr/refroute8.html, it says that Ulster Avenue in Kingston should be NY 979, but when I look at it in Google Street View, I see NY 981M reference markers.

[Roadgeekteen]

I don't know if any of you recall the Taconic State Parkway crash back in the summer of 2009 which killed 8 people. I was of course to young to recall it, but I heard about somewhere and went into a rabbithole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Taconic_State_Parkway_crash

The minivan was being driven by Diane Schuler, who was allegedly drunk. Her husband denies this, but her husband seems like a bit of a tool so whatever. There was a documentry made about it. Haven't watched it yet but I intend to eventually.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2011325/

I did read Jackie Hance's book (the mother of three of the girls killed and Diane's sister-in-law), and it mostly focuses on her experiences and famiy though it has some details on the crash. Just a warning, I don't cry much at all and this book made me cry.

https://www.amazon.com/Ill-See-Again-Jackie-Hance/dp/147675800X

The reason I bring this up on this forum is I saw many people on reddit blame the Taconic Parkway itself for the crash, as the road isn't super great. But I'm wondering is there an issue with the road or was this just a tragic accident (or not an accident)?

[cl94]

It's been a while since I traveled to any of the Northway north of Exit 30, and was surprised to see a highest elevation on I-87 sign.  Anyone know if that's relatively new or if I just never noticed it on earlier trips up that way?

That's new in the past 2 years. Probably new in the past 7 months, because I'm not seeing it on August 2022 GSV.

[Rothman]

I don't know if any of you recall the Taconic State Parkway crash back in the summer of 2009 which killed 8 people. I was of course to young to recall it, but I heard about somewhere and went into a rabbithole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Taconic_State_Parkway_crash

The minivan was being driven by Diane Schuler, who was allegedly drunk. Her husband denies this, but her husband seems like a bit of a tool so whatever. There was a documentry made about it. Haven't watched it yet but I intend to eventually.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2011325/

I did read Jackie Hance's book (the mother of three of the girls killed and Diane's sister-in-law), and it mostly focuses on her experiences and famiy though it has some details on the crash. Just a warning, I don't cry much at all and this book made me cry.

https://www.amazon.com/Ill-See-Again-Jackie-Hance/dp/147675800X

The reason I bring this up on this forum is I saw many people on reddit blame the Taconic Parkway itself for the crash, as the road isn't super great. But I'm wondering is there an issue with the road or was this just a tragic accident (or not an accident)?

They were going the wrong direction on the Parkway.  That's on them.

[SignBridge]

I don't know if any of you recall the Taconic State Parkway crash back in the summer of 2009 which killed 8 people. I was of course to young to recall it, but I heard about somewhere and went into a rabbithole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Taconic_State_Parkway_crash

The minivan was being driven by Diane Schuler, who was allegedly drunk. Her husband denies this, but her husband seems like a bit of a tool so whatever. There was a documentry made about it. Haven't watched it yet but I intend to eventually.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2011325/

I did read Jackie Hance's book (the mother of three of the girls killed and Diane's sister-in-law), and it mostly focuses on her experiences and famiy though it has some details on the crash. Just a warning, I don't cry much at all and this book made me cry.

https://www.amazon.com/Ill-See-Again-Jackie-Hance/dp/147675800X

The reason I bring this up on this forum is I saw many people on reddit blame the Taconic Parkway itself for the crash, as the road isn't super great. But I'm wondering is there an issue with the road or was this just a tragic accident (or not an accident)?

They were going the wrong direction on the Parkway.  That's on them.

The exact cause of the crash was well established by the investigation. It was caused by the extremely drunk female driver of the van that drove south in the northbound lanes. Her state of intoxication was determined by the official autopsy. She entered the Parkway in the wrong direction by going the wrong way up an exit ramp that was clearly marked. Weather and visibility were excellent at the time.

That section of the Taconic Parkway is a rebuilt modern divided highway with completely controlled access. There was nothing wrong with the road; only with the impaired driver. End of story.

There was another excellent book written about the accident and its investigation. The Taconic Tragedy, A Son's Search For The Truth, by Jeanne Bastardi, a relative of one of the people killed.

[Roadgeekteen]

I don't know if any of you recall the Taconic State Parkway crash back in the summer of 2009 which killed 8 people. I was of course to young to recall it, but I heard about somewhere and went into a rabbithole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Taconic_State_Parkway_crash

The minivan was being driven by Diane Schuler, who was allegedly drunk. Her husband denies this, but her husband seems like a bit of a tool so whatever. There was a documentry made about it. Haven't watched it yet but I intend to eventually.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2011325/

I did read Jackie Hance's book (the mother of three of the girls killed and Diane's sister-in-law), and it mostly focuses on her experiences and famiy though it has some details on the crash. Just a warning, I don't cry much at all and this book made me cry.

https://www.amazon.com/Ill-See-Again-Jackie-Hance/dp/147675800X

The reason I bring this up on this forum is I saw many people on reddit blame the Taconic Parkway itself for the crash, as the road isn't super great. But I'm wondering is there an issue with the road or was this just a tragic accident (or not an accident)?

They were going the wrong direction on the Parkway.  That's on them.

The exact cause of the crash was well established by the investigation. It was caused by the extremely drunk female driver of the van that drove south in the northbound lanes. Her state of intoxication was determined by the official autopsy. She entered the Parkway in the wrong direction by going the wrong way up an exit ramp that was clearly marked. Weather and visibility were excellent at the time.

That section of the Taconic Parkway is a rebuilt modern divided highway with completely controlled access. There was nothing wrong with the road; only with the errant driver. End of story.

There was another excellent book written about the accident and its investigation. The Taconic Tragedy, A Son's Search For The Truth, by Jeanne Bastardi, a relative of one of the people killed.

Apparently the Bastardi family sued the Warren Hance, the car's owner, in a lawsuit. They say it is because it was Warren's car which was driven, and that they were required too, but seems extremely shitty to sue the parents who just lost all 3 of their young children to a crash that from all the information given, was 0% their fault. The person at fault was Diane, and maybe her piece of shit husband who denied that his wife was drinking or doing drugs at the time. Apparently the HBO documentry has more about how this guy (Danny Schuler) is a terrible person. Then again everyone sued everyone so who knows at this point.

[webny99]

Don't see this too often: Traffic heading the wrong way using an entrance ramp to exit I-590 due to a closure.
https://www.whec.com/local/traffic-diverted-on-590-after-incident/

[Mr. Matté]

I don't know if any of you recall the Taconic State Parkway crash back in the summer of 2009 which killed 8 people. I was of course to young to recall it, but I heard about somewhere and went into a rabbithole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Taconic_State_Parkway_crash

The minivan was being driven by Diane Schuler, who was allegedly drunk. Her husband denies this, but her husband seems like a bit of a tool so whatever. There was a documentry made about it. Haven't watched it yet but I intend to eventually.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2011325/

I did read Jackie Hance's book (the mother of three of the girls killed and Diane's sister-in-law), and it mostly focuses on her experiences and famiy though it has some details on the crash. Just a warning, I don't cry much at all and this book made me cry.

https://www.amazon.com/Ill-See-Again-Jackie-Hance/dp/147675800X

The reason I bring this up on this forum is I saw many people on reddit blame the Taconic Parkway itself for the crash, as the road isn't super great. But I'm wondering is there an issue with the road or was this just a tragic accident (or not an accident)?

They were going the wrong direction on the Parkway.  That's on them.

The exact cause of the crash was well established by the investigation. It was caused by the extremely drunk female driver of the van that drove south in the northbound lanes. Her state of intoxication was determined by the official autopsy. She entered the Parkway in the wrong direction by going the wrong way up an exit ramp that was clearly marked. Weather and visibility were excellent at the time.

That section of the Taconic Parkway is a rebuilt modern divided highway with completely controlled access. There was nothing wrong with the road; only with the errant driver. End of story.

I do recall hearing in the news that the state specifically went back to the exit ramp where she allegedly entered the wrong way and put more and larger Do Not Enter / Wrong Way signs and new no left/right turns signs up. Compare the 2008 imagery to more recent times: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.142646,-73.8138526,3a,75y,338.02h,81.91t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sgZQv-syvITLSjlkLUWVhIw!2e0!5s20081101T000000!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en

(Edited for grammar)

[kalvado]

I don't know if any of you recall the Taconic State Parkway crash back in the summer of 2009 which killed 8 people. I was of course to young to recall it, but I heard about somewhere and went into a rabbithole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Taconic_State_Parkway_crash

The minivan was being driven by Diane Schuler, who was allegedly drunk. Her husband denies this, but her husband seems like a bit of a tool so whatever. There was a documentry made about it. Haven't watched it yet but I intend to eventually.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2011325/

I did read Jackie Hance's book (the mother of three of the girls killed and Diane's sister-in-law), and it mostly focuses on her experiences and famiy though it has some details on the crash. Just a warning, I don't cry much at all and this book made me cry.

https://www.amazon.com/Ill-See-Again-Jackie-Hance/dp/147675800X

The reason I bring this up on this forum is I saw many people on reddit blame the Taconic Parkway itself for the crash, as the road isn't super great. But I'm wondering is there an issue with the road or was this just a tragic accident (or not an accident)?

They were going the wrong direction on the Parkway.  That's on them.

The exact cause of the crash was well established by the investigation. It was caused by the extremely drunk female driver of the van that drove south in the northbound lanes. Her state of intoxication was determined by the official autopsy. She entered the Parkway in the wrong direction by going the wrong way up an exit ramp that was clearly marked. Weather and visibility were excellent at the time.

That section of the Taconic Parkway is a rebuilt modern divided highway with completely controlled access. There was nothing wrong with the road; only with the errant driver. End of story.

I do recall hearing in the news that the state specifically go back to the exit ramp where she allegedly entered the wrong way and put more and larger Do Not Enter / Wrong Way signs and new no left/right turns signs up. Compare the 2008 imagery to more recent times: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.142646,-73.8138526,3a,75y,338.02h,81.91t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sgZQv-syvITLSjlkLUWVhIw!2e0!5s20081101T000000!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en

I remember seeing statistics on people entering wrong way on a ramp. It is not a trivial problem statistically, 1.5% of total road deaths or so. Of course, alcohol is a strong correlation with wrong way as well...

[RobbieL2415]

FWIW, it is generally illegal for minors (either with a permit or a license) to drive on any parkway in NYS or within NYC city limits.