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Author Topic: Stangest Traffic Lights  (Read 87165 times)

CardInLex

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Re: Stangest Traffic Lights
« Reply #300 on: July 02, 2020, 07:29:38 PM »

Four t-shaped straight-ahead signals in Lexington, KY, with two red balls each:
https://www.google.pl/maps/@37.9948992,-84.5221116,3a,27.3y,23.85h,97.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEDtg2yx8wR7aw91ZSRWdOQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The pairs of balls are even more visible from a side street:
https://www.google.pl/maps/@37.9947564,-84.5219337,3a,26.2y,348.79h,92.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI6cesr6Pp67idulcwvSvig!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Another one across KY-4, with a standard left turn signal, right before a variable-lane config on US-27:
https://www.google.pl/maps/@37.9975729,-84.5214192,3a,28.8y,19.16h,90.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6WpqQ8pCQ-LynPvXAOy_wA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


LFUCG (which maintains all signals in Fayette County, even on state routes) uses the double red configuration at intersections that have a high number of red-light runners.
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mrsman

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Re: Stangest Traffic Lights
« Reply #301 on: July 03, 2020, 01:59:55 AM »

Quote
Also, does anyone have a clue about this a bit further north? I think it has to do with the variable-lanes configuration.

Yeah, that’s the last left turn signal before the lanes change back to non reversible. The reversible lanes in the street view are in their “non-rush hour” configuration.

I wonder if you can tell us more about this operation of the signals.  It seems interesting.  5 signal heads in each direction, two regular, two 4 aspect, and the left most is protected only.  Are left turns here usually protective/permissive except during the rush hour?  Do the 4 aspect signals serve as FYAs when they service left turn lanes and then act as RYG signals when serving a straight lane?

It is rare for any reversible operation to provide left turn priority, as it can get complicated.  It seems that there is a left turn lane provided at all times: 2-L-4, 3-L-3, 4-L-2.  It is rare as it is more common to see: 3-4, 3-L-3, 4-3 with left turns prohibited during rush hours.
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CardInLex

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Re: Stangest Traffic Lights
« Reply #302 on: July 03, 2020, 10:00:34 AM »

Quote
Also, does anyone have a clue about this a bit further north? I think it has to do with the variable-lanes configuration.

Yeah, that’s the last left turn signal before the lanes change back to non reversible. The reversible lanes in the street view are in their “non-rush hour” configuration.

I wonder if you can tell us more about this operation of the signals.  It seems interesting.  5 signal heads in each direction, two regular, two 4 aspect, and the left most is protected only.  Are left turns here usually protective/permissive except during the rush hour?  Do the 4 aspect signals serve as FYAs when they service left turn lanes and then act as RYG signals when serving a straight lane?

It is rare for any reversible operation to provide left turn priority, as it can get complicated.  It seems that there is a left turn lane provided at all times: 2-L-4, 3-L-3, 4-L-2.  It is rare as it is more common to see: 3-4, 3-L-3, 4-3 with left turns prohibited during rush hours.

Left turns along this stretch are always protected. One lane is always dedicated to be a left turn lane. The four section heads are R-Y-G-GA. The green arrow is only used when the lane is assigned as a left turn lane (the green orb is not illuminated during this time). The whole set up may not be MUTCD compliant because there are always dark/unilluminated signal heads.

Farther down Nicholasville Rd/US 27 the lanes go to 1-L-4 (every lane line is a broken double yellow). This configuration makes the dual left turns from side streets variable as well (look at Alumni Drive intersection). That means the left left turn lane sometimes turns to the second lane and sometimes turns to the right lane of US 27.
https://goo.gl/maps/kYjtDgCUUZhtaXaS9

The configuration works well except if you have the unfortunate need to head downtown in afternoon rush hour which can take 40 minutes to an hour just to go a few miles with just one lane.

Louisville has a similar configuration for Baxter Ave/Bardstown Rd (US 31E/US 150). Normal configuration: P-1-1-P; Rush Hour: 2-L-1. https://goo.gl/maps/PAAkJhToWg5sYCdQ6
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 10:09:34 AM by CardInLex »
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mrsman

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Re: Stangest Traffic Lights
« Reply #303 on: July 03, 2020, 11:20:57 AM »

Quote
Also, does anyone have a clue about this a bit further north? I think it has to do with the variable-lanes configuration.

Yeah, that’s the last left turn signal before the lanes change back to non reversible. The reversible lanes in the street view are in their “non-rush hour” configuration.

I wonder if you can tell us more about this operation of the signals.  It seems interesting.  5 signal heads in each direction, two regular, two 4 aspect, and the left most is protected only.  Are left turns here usually protective/permissive except during the rush hour?  Do the 4 aspect signals serve as FYAs when they service left turn lanes and then act as RYG signals when serving a straight lane?

It is rare for any reversible operation to provide left turn priority, as it can get complicated.  It seems that there is a left turn lane provided at all times: 2-L-4, 3-L-3, 4-L-2.  It is rare as it is more common to see: 3-4, 3-L-3, 4-3 with left turns prohibited during rush hours.

Left turns along this stretch are always protected. One lane is always dedicated to be a left turn lane. The four section heads are R-Y-G-GA. The green arrow is only used when the lane is assigned as a left turn lane (the green orb is not illuminated during this time). The whole set up may not be MUTCD compliant because there are always dark/unilluminated signal heads.


It certainly isn't compliant, although they may have quallified for a special exemption given the unique usage.  Another problem is the use of a R-Y-G-GA signal for a protected only left.  Under the current MUTCD, a left turn signal is supposed to have red and yellow arrows, not orbs.  And to the extent that orbs are used, a sign like "left turn signal" (so common in PA and VA) should be used to identify the signal as controlling left turns.  And as you correctly noted dark signals are an issue, but probably not a violation because there are other signals lit that show the same aspect.

If I were to assign signals to something like this, I would replace the 4 aspect signals with 6 aspect signals (hung like a doghouse, but with 6 aspects).  The 6 aspect signals would be:

RA - R
YA - Y
GA - G

These would clearly dictate the traffic of the lane in question and only the relevant movement would be lit up.

Does KY require at least two signal faces for the left turn movement?  (Some states don't.)  That may also be a violation if only one left turn arrow is lit up at a time based on lane configuration.  An easy fix for that would be a pole mounted signal on the far left corner.
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CardInLex

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Re: Stangest Traffic Lights
« Reply #304 on: July 03, 2020, 03:26:13 PM »

Quote
Also, does anyone have a clue about this a bit further north? I think it has to do with the variable-lanes configuration.

Yeah, that’s the last left turn signal before the lanes change back to non reversible. The reversible lanes in the street view are in their “non-rush hour” configuration.

I wonder if you can tell us more about this operation of the signals.  It seems interesting.  5 signal heads in each direction, two regular, two 4 aspect, and the left most is protected only.  Are left turns here usually protective/permissive except during the rush hour?  Do the 4 aspect signals serve as FYAs when they service left turn lanes and then act as RYG signals when serving a straight lane?

It is rare for any reversible operation to provide left turn priority, as it can get complicated.  It seems that there is a left turn lane provided at all times: 2-L-4, 3-L-3, 4-L-2.  It is rare as it is more common to see: 3-4, 3-L-3, 4-3 with left turns prohibited during rush hours.

Left turns along this stretch are always protected. One lane is always dedicated to be a left turn lane. The four section heads are R-Y-G-GA. The green arrow is only used when the lane is assigned as a left turn lane (the green orb is not illuminated during this time). The whole set up may not be MUTCD compliant because there are always dark/unilluminated signal heads.


It certainly isn't compliant, although they may have quallified for a special exemption given the unique usage.  Another problem is the use of a R-Y-G-GA signal for a protected only left.  Under the current MUTCD, a left turn signal is supposed to have red and yellow arrows, not orbs.  And to the extent that orbs are used, a sign like "left turn signal" (so common in PA and VA) should be used to identify the signal as controlling left turns.  And as you correctly noted dark signals are an issue, but probably not a violation because there are other signals lit that show the same aspect.

If I were to assign signals to something like this, I would replace the 4 aspect signals with 6 aspect signals (hung like a doghouse, but with 6 aspects).  The 6 aspect signals would be:

RA - R
YA - Y
GA - G

These would clearly dictate the traffic of the lane in question and only the relevant movement would be lit up.

Does KY require at least two signal faces for the left turn movement?  (Some states don't.)  That may also be a violation if only one left turn arrow is lit up at a time based on lane configuration.  An easy fix for that would be a pole mounted signal on the far left corner.

I would like that signal configuration.

The ends of the reversible lanes feature blank out “LANE ENDS MERGE RIGHT” to get traffic back into the proper lanes.

The switchover takes approximately 15 minutes and starts at one end and cascades to the other end. There is a few minute time frame where the reversible lanes just feature X’s to get any stragglers out of the lanes.

The reversible configuration also is used for events at Kroger Field.

No, KY does not use two signal heads for left turns (except if it is a single lane approach where you have to turn left).
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mrsman

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Re: Stangest Traffic Lights
« Reply #305 on: July 03, 2020, 08:26:37 PM »

Quote
Also, does anyone have a clue about this a bit further north? I think it has to do with the variable-lanes configuration.

Yeah, that’s the last left turn signal before the lanes change back to non reversible. The reversible lanes in the street view are in their “non-rush hour” configuration.

I wonder if you can tell us more about this operation of the signals.  It seems interesting.  5 signal heads in each direction, two regular, two 4 aspect, and the left most is protected only.  Are left turns here usually protective/permissive except during the rush hour?  Do the 4 aspect signals serve as FYAs when they service left turn lanes and then act as RYG signals when serving a straight lane?

It is rare for any reversible operation to provide left turn priority, as it can get complicated.  It seems that there is a left turn lane provided at all times: 2-L-4, 3-L-3, 4-L-2.  It is rare as it is more common to see: 3-4, 3-L-3, 4-3 with left turns prohibited during rush hours.

Left turns along this stretch are always protected. One lane is always dedicated to be a left turn lane. The four section heads are R-Y-G-GA. The green arrow is only used when the lane is assigned as a left turn lane (the green orb is not illuminated during this time). The whole set up may not be MUTCD compliant because there are always dark/unilluminated signal heads.


It certainly isn't compliant, although they may have quallified for a special exemption given the unique usage.  Another problem is the use of a R-Y-G-GA signal for a protected only left.  Under the current MUTCD, a left turn signal is supposed to have red and yellow arrows, not orbs.  And to the extent that orbs are used, a sign like "left turn signal" (so common in PA and VA) should be used to identify the signal as controlling left turns.  And as you correctly noted dark signals are an issue, but probably not a violation because there are other signals lit that show the same aspect.

If I were to assign signals to something like this, I would replace the 4 aspect signals with 6 aspect signals (hung like a doghouse, but with 6 aspects).  The 6 aspect signals would be:

RA - R
YA - Y
GA - G

These would clearly dictate the traffic of the lane in question and only the relevant movement would be lit up.

Does KY require at least two signal faces for the left turn movement?  (Some states don't.)  That may also be a violation if only one left turn arrow is lit up at a time based on lane configuration.  An easy fix for that would be a pole mounted signal on the far left corner.

I would like that signal configuration.

The ends of the reversible lanes feature blank out “LANE ENDS MERGE RIGHT” to get traffic back into the proper lanes.

The switchover takes approximately 15 minutes and starts at one end and cascades to the other end. There is a few minute time frame where the reversible lanes just feature X’s to get any stragglers out of the lanes.

The reversible configuration also is used for events at Kroger Field.

No, KY does not use two signal heads for left turns (except if it is a single lane approach where you have to turn left).

It's interesting that you have a cascading switchover on a surface street, but it is probably necessary given the complicated traffic pattern here.  There are some reversible lanes in my area, where the changeover is much more dramatic.  Of course, during peak times, there are no dedicated left turn lanes and any center left turn lane that existst during off-peak hours just becomes a thru traffic lane in the dominant direction during peak.

For those familiar with Silver Spring and DC, the most prominent reversibles are Connecticut Ave: 3-3 off peak, 2-4 peak (parking allowed during off-peak so its really 2-2); Georgia Ave near the Beltway 3-L-3 converting to 3-4 during peak with left turns prohibited on the stretch during peak hours; and Colesville Road with a similar configuration to Connecticut Ave.  For both Connecticut and Colesville left turns are generally allowed at most intersections, but a left turn will generally block a thru traffic lane.  There are also signs that dictate the times for the reversible lanes, so people have to move back to the regular lanes when rush hour ends.

The old rule in many states requiring two signal faces is likely due to the concern of a bulb burning out.  With LED technology, this is no longer the same level of concern and I can see an accommodation for a one signal per lane arrangement where if there is only one left turn lane, only one left turn signal face is needed.  If the LED lights are in an array, you need many "bulbs" to burn out before you have a dark signal.
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SignBridge

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Re: Stangest Traffic Lights
« Reply #306 on: July 03, 2020, 09:43:00 PM »

I have seen a number of LED signals not working. They may not burn out like incandescent bulbs do, but they are subject to malfunctions. Like seeing half of the cluster in one light not working or an entire light flickering very rapidly.

So we still need the redundancy of at least two heads in every direction for both reliability and conspicuity.
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CJResotko

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Re: Stangest Traffic Lights
« Reply #307 on: January 29, 2023, 11:26:34 AM »

Here's an oddball setup that used to exist in Lansing, Michigan.


At the northbound approach of the intersection, there was a standard RYG signal, a singular red section, and a blank-out sign. There's a stop sign at that approach, so the RYG signal flashed red.
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