Much like the thread about wine, do you have a preference for certain types of liquor whenever you choose to partake?
My brother in law recently poured me some 18-year Glenlivet. It was pretty good, but honestly, I couldn't have told the difference between that and "lesser" types of whiskeys. I guess it's like wine, where you have to kind of know how to properly taste, savor, note certain flavors, etc. Granted I'm sure I could tell the difference between the fancy stuff and some cheap ass Clan MacGregor, but as far as ages, single malt, etc goes I guess I'm flying blind.
Certainly wine is my default when I do drink, but I do keep some of the following around the house.
- Tito's. I think this is incredibly smooth vodka, and I could almost sip it just straight.
- Hornitos. Not a bad buy for tequila, and certainly not as rough as some Cuervo.
- Jameson. Kind of the one whiskey I normally gravitate towards.
I think the wife has some flavored vodkas she'll bust out on occasion, but those are my proverbial three amigos. What're yours?
Liquor? I hardly know her.
Never had liquor (duh). Isn't liquor generally stronger than wine?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 07:47:49 PM
Never had liquor (duh). Isn't liquor generally stronger than wine?
Yes. Typically liquor is over 20% alcohol volume.
I can't drink liquor anymore. The buzz lasts too short for me, so if I want to have a sustained one I have to overindulge and I'd rather not do that.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 07:47:49 PM
Never had liquor (duh). Isn't liquor generally stronger than wine?
Whaaaa? When I was your age I used a combination of a fake ID or a friend's older sibling for that.
My reminiscing aside, yes, it's generally much stronger.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 05, 2021, 08:06:59 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 07:47:49 PM
Never had liquor (duh). Isn't liquor generally stronger than wine?
Whaaaa? When I was your age I used a combination of a fake ID or a friend's older sibling for that.
My reminiscing aside, yes, it's generally much stronger.
I have had a couple of sips of alcohol before. I didn't like it.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 08:12:02 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 05, 2021, 08:06:59 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 07:47:49 PM
Never had liquor (duh). Isn't liquor generally stronger than wine?
Whaaaa? When I was your age I used a combination of a fake ID or a friend's older sibling for that.
My reminiscing aside, yes, it's generally much stronger.
I have had a couple of sips of alcohol before. I didn't like it.
I was just giving you a bad time. :-)
It's definitely not for everybody. I barely drink much of it nowadays. Hits me a bit too hard
As long as it isn't cheap liquor I'm generally game for anything. I kind of have an affinity for Gin for some reason and often get bottles as Christmas gifts.
Alcohol is often an acquired taste...not many people say they loved their first sips.
For me, my go to is just a general lager. Yuengling, Corona, etc. For wine, I like sweet, fruity wines. Vodka over most other liquors.
There's also some truth in that tequila makes the clothes come off. Or my wife's jello shots.
Good times. Who wants a beer? NE2's buying.
Whiskey's good taken in moderation and mixed appropriately.
straight up? I'll pass.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 05, 2021, 08:58:06 PM
Alcohol is often an acquired taste...not many people say they loved their first sips.
For me, my go to is just a general lager. Yuengling, Corona, etc. For wine, I like sweet, fruity wines. Vodka over most other liquors.
There's also some truth in that tequila makes the clothes come off. Or my wife's jello shots.
Good times. Who wants a beer? NE2's buying.
I'm in. Thanks NE2!
I like some Makers Mark bourbon - Neat, On the Rocks, or in a nice Cocktail (makes a yummy Old Fashioned)
I agree that Tito's is good vodka
If I want to get st00p1d, a bottle of Wild Turkey American Honey is basically my Kryptonite...It is sweet and smooth, and a full "fifth" /bottle can disappear very quickly in an evening. My older brother likes to get a bottle when I visit at holidays or other functions
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 05, 2021, 08:06:59 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 07:47:49 PM
Never had liquor (duh). Isn't liquor generally stronger than wine?
Whaaaa? When I was your age I used a combination of a fake ID or a friend's older sibling for that.
My reminiscing aside, yes, it's generally much stronger.
Boones Farm b4 I was legal. Crown Royal now, smooth
Zima rules.
Scotch, Lagavulin is very nice
Brandy
that said, I don't have it very often and only about a thimbleful at a time.
Quote from: csw on May 05, 2021, 07:16:07 PM
Liquor? I hardly know her.
You win the thread. :bigass: 🤣😂
Bruichladdich is a Scotch that I love. It's expensive, about $60/bottle, so I usually just get one a year at my birthday.
My years living near Kentucky got me drinking bourbon. Four Roses small batch is my favorite moderately priced bourbon.
Besides wine, I also keep gin in the house. Each weekend, either Saturday afternoon or Sunday afternoon, I make a cocktail. Either a Gin & Tonic (with a squeeze of lime and a few dashes of Peychaud's bitters), a Tom Collins (with a few dashes of Angostura bitters), a grapefruit gin fizz (with an egg white), or a Salty Dog. Usually one of the first two.
I've tried several different gins:
Gordon's London Dry
Tanqueray Rangpur Lime
Beefeater London Dry
Bombay Sapphire London Dry
Bluecoat American Dry
Of those, the ones that mix the best into my cocktails are Beefeater and Bombay Sapphire. Those two don't impart any "off" flavors to the drink. The Bombay Sapphire adds some interesting other flavors, so I think that's going to be my go-to gin from now on. (Beefeater is basically all juniper, which is fine too.) I find it interesting that Bombay Sapphire is also the brand I grew up seeing in the house for my dad's occasional martini. It's also the brand my sister and her husband buy.
Vodka - They're essentially all the same, so normally just what's cheap. I use Marble quite a bit (local Colorado brand)
"Traditional" Gin - Hendrick's or Leopold's Summer Gin (local Colorado brand)
Old Tom Gin - Ransom
Tequila Blanca - ArteNOM 1579
Tequila Reposado - Casamigos
Tequila Añejo - Don Julio
Tequila Extra Añejo - Organic Diablito
Mezcal - Alipús Destilado en Barro
Rum - Foursquare 2007
Bourbon - Weller 12 Year
Rye Whiskey - A.D. Laws' (local Colorado brand)
Corn Whiskey - A.D. Laws' (local Colorado brand)
Irish Whisky - Knappogue Castle 12 Year
Scotch Whisky - Balvenie 14 Year Caribbean Cask
Japanese Whisky - Akashi White Label
Brandy - Germain-Robin
Cognac - Hennessy Paradis
Miscellaneous Spirits - Fernet Branca and Green Chartreuse
Chris
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 10:24:14 AM
Besides wine, I also keep gin in the house. Each weekend, either Saturday afternoon or Sunday afternoon, I make a cocktail. Either a Gin & Tonic (with a squeeze of lime and a few dashes of Peychaud's bitters), a Tom Collins (with a few dashes of Angostura bitters), a grapefruit gin fizz (with an egg white), or a Salty Dog. Usually one of the first two.
I've tried several different gins:
Gordon's London Dry
Tanqueray Rangpur Lime
Beefeater London Dry
Bombay Sapphire London Dry
Bluecoat American Dry
Of those, the ones that mix the best into my cocktails are Beefeater and Bombay Sapphire. Those two don't impart any "off" flavors to the drink. The Bombay Sapphire adds some interesting other flavors, so I think that's going to be my go-to gin from now on. (Beefeater is basically all juniper, which is fine too.) I find it interesting that Bombay Sapphire is also the brand I grew up seeing in the house for my dad's occasional martini. It's also the brand my sister and her husband buy.
I've had a gin fizz in New Orleans before, and I really recall liking them. It's something I've never attempted to make at home, however.
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
Vodka - They're essentially all the same, so normally just what's cheap.
Them's fightin' words! :)
Also: Gin is just flavored vodka. Change my mind.
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
Vodka - They're essentially all the same, so normally just what's cheap.
Them's fightin' words! :)
Vodka is meant to be an odorless, flavorless spirit. So yes, they should all be basically the same. The only differences in vodka are the water source (which obviously could have other dissolved solids giving different flavors) and the heads/hearts/tails ratio. Outside of the absolute cheapest vodkas (Barton, McCormick, Viaka, etc.), those ratios are nearly the same with all other brands. No need to spend $40 on a bottle of Belvedere when a $16 bottle of Monopolowa is the same quality level.
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
Also: Gin is just flavored vodka. Change my mind.
No need to change your mind. I'm in 100% agreement.
Chris
My go-to's are Tito's for vodka, and Captain Morgan (spiced) for rum. With those I'll typically make vodka+ginger ale & rum+coke.
In a bar setting, my fiancée & I agree that the Long Island Iced Tea is only to be ordered if we desire an especially rowdy evening... :sombrero:
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:26:12 AM
In a bar setting, the Long Island Iced Tea is only to be ordered if we desire an especially rowdy evening... :sombrero:
I always find this mentality a little interesting. A Long Island doesn't have any more liquor than any other cocktail. It does have more liquor
s. Just because it comes with vodka, gin, rum, and triple sec, the standard recipe only comes with a 1/2 oz. each of the vodka and gin and 1/4 oz. each of rum and triple sec. 1.5 oz. of liquor is the same that most restaurants/bars pour for a standard vodka & soda.
Chris
Anyone here have had vodka icees? The ones you get at Costco (they came in a big container). Good Christmas gift.
Quote from: kevinb1994 on May 06, 2021, 11:31:51 AM
Anyone here have had iced vodka icees? The ones you get at Costco (they came in a big container). Good Christmas gift.
I feel like that might give me three different headaches at once - one from the sugar, one from the liquor, and one from the brain freeze. :D
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:35:15 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on May 06, 2021, 11:31:51 AM
Anyone here have had iced vodka icees? The ones you get at Costco (they came in a big container). Good Christmas gift.
I feel like that might give me three different headaches at once - one from the sugar, one from the liquor, and one from the brain freeze. :D
Chris
Yeah, one must be careful with it.
Quote from: kevinb1994 on May 06, 2021, 11:31:51 AM
Anyone here have had vodka icees? The ones you get at Costco (they came in a big container). Good Christmas gift.
My sister had bought those last year to take out on their boat. Her and my wife seemed to enjoy them, I stuck with beer that day.
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:29:24 AM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:26:12 AM
In a bar setting, the Long Island Iced Tea is only to be ordered if we desire an especially rowdy evening... :sombrero:
I always find this mentality a little interesting. A Long Island doesn't have any more liquor than any other cocktail. It does have more liquors. Just because it comes with vodka, gin, rum, and triple sec, the standard recipe only comes with a 1/2 oz. each of the vodka and gin and 1/4 oz. each of rum and triple sec. 1.5 oz. of liquor is the same that most restaurants/bars pour for a standard vodka & soda.
Chris
Maybe it's just the bars I frequent, but when I watch the bartenders make a Long Island they typically heavy-hand all the liquors and then do the shortest blast of coke from the soda gun at the end (and at that point, it's definitely more liquor volume-wise compared to, say, a rum & coke or vodka cranberry).
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:44:43 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:29:24 AM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:26:12 AM
In a bar setting, the Long Island Iced Tea is only to be ordered if we desire an especially rowdy evening... :sombrero:
I always find this mentality a little interesting. A Long Island doesn't have any more liquor than any other cocktail. It does have more liquors. Just because it comes with vodka, gin, rum, and triple sec, the standard recipe only comes with a 1/2 oz. each of the vodka and gin and 1/4 oz. each of rum and triple sec. 1.5 oz. of liquor is the same that most restaurants/bars pour for a standard vodka & soda.
Chris
Maybe it's just the bars I frequent, but when I watch the bartenders make a Long Island they typically heavy-hand all the liquors and then do the shortest blast of coke from the soda gun at the end (and at that point, it's definitely more liquor volume-wise compared to, say, a rum & coke or vodka cranberry).
It is just supposed to be a splash of Coke, but there's also lemonade/sweet & sour in there for the other mixer. Heavy-handed bartenders definitely change the equation.
Chris
I like various Scotches, Irish whiskies, and bourbons. I do not care for the heavily-peated Scotches (Islays, etc.); I prefer Speysides and Highland malts. I also love Springbank, but it's gotten extraordinarily expensive and is hard to find anyway.
But we don't keep any liquor at home on a routine basis for reasons I don't care to discuss, and usually when I need something for a recipe or similar I buy miniatures. An exception is sometimes when we have someone coming over. My mom came over for Christmas dinner and I got a bottle of Ron Zacapa Centenario rum as an after-dinner drink for the special occasion. I may get another bottle of that for Mother's Day this Sunday because she liked it so much. I can keep a bottle of that around because it's not something that lends itself to pouring as a before-dinner drink, at least not to my taste it doesn't, and it's too expensive to waste mixing it with Coke or similar.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:44:43 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:29:24 AM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:26:12 AM
In a bar setting, the Long Island Iced Tea is only to be ordered if we desire an especially rowdy evening... :sombrero:
I always find this mentality a little interesting. A Long Island doesn't have any more liquor than any other cocktail. It does have more liquors. Just because it comes with vodka, gin, rum, and triple sec, the standard recipe only comes with a 1/2 oz. each of the vodka and gin and 1/4 oz. each of rum and triple sec. 1.5 oz. of liquor is the same that most restaurants/bars pour for a standard vodka & soda.
Chris
Maybe it's just the bars I frequent, but when I watch the bartenders make a Long Island they typically heavy-hand all the liquors and then do the shortest blast of coke from the soda gun at the end (and at that point, it's definitely more liquor volume-wise compared to, say, a rum & coke or vodka cranberry).
I'm lazy. When I make that, I use one shot of each liquor. Good thing I have not made one of those in a very long time.
You want a variant on a Long Island, make a Hawaiian Iced Tea: Instead of regular rum, substitute Malibu. I had that at a restaurant in Kapa'a and it was pretty good.
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:25:30 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
Vodka - They're essentially all the same, so normally just what's cheap.
Them's fightin' words! :)
Vodka is meant to be an odorless, flavorless spirit. So yes, they should all be basically the same. The only differences in vodka are the water source (which obviously could have other dissolved solids giving different flavors) and the heads/hearts/tails ratio. Outside of the absolute cheapest vodkas (Barton, McCormick, Viaka, etc.), those ratios are nearly the same with all other brands. No need to spend $40 on a bottle of Belvedere when a $16 bottle of Monopolowa is the same quality level.
Oh, I'm not fighting it. I just know people who would.
My sister says she can tell the difference between different vodkas. But she is also very sensitive to mineral content in water as well, and can only tolerate certain brands of mineral water. So, in her case at least, it's believable.
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:25:30 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
Also: Gin is just flavored vodka. Change my mind.
No need to change your mind. I'm in 100% agreement.
I love reading articles and blog posts that have something like "Is gin just flavored vodka?" or "What is the difference between gin and flavored vodka?" in the title. They go on and on about how gin and vodka have different histories, how gin has a specific definition, the various production methods of each, etc, etc. And then, at the end, they claim to have shown how gin is not just flavored vodka. And yet nothing they wrote actually does any such thing.
Here's how I would word the question, and I challenge anyone to answer it:
If Smirnoff produced a vodka that was flavored with juniper berries, coriander, orris root, liquorice, and angelica–then give me one good reason it shouldn't be sold as "gin".
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 06, 2021, 11:47:36 AM
I like various Scotches, Irish whiskies, and bourbons. I do not care for the heavily-peated Scotches (Islays, etc.); I prefer Speysides and Highland malts. I also love Springbank, but it's gotten extraordinarily expensive and is hard to find anyway.
But we don't keep any liquor at home on a routine basis for reasons I don't care to discuss, and usually when I need something for a recipe or similar I buy miniatures. An exception is sometimes when we have someone coming over. My mom came over for Christmas dinner and I got a bottle of Ron Zacapa Centenario rum as an after-dinner drink for the special occasion. I may get another bottle of that for Mother's Day this Sunday because she liked it so much. I can keep a bottle of that around because it's not something that lends itself to pouring as a before-dinner drink, at least not to my taste it doesn't, and it's too expensive to waste mixing it with Coke or similar.
I love Springbank. I think the 10 year is better than the 15 for my palate.
Ron Zacapa is probably my 2nd favorite rum after the Foursquare that I listed above (and Zacapa is much cheaper). I also love Smith & Cross for making cocktails since it's so funky.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:46:42 AM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:44:43 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:29:24 AM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:26:12 AM
In a bar setting, the Long Island Iced Tea is only to be ordered if we desire an especially rowdy evening... :sombrero:
I always find this mentality a little interesting. A Long Island doesn't have any more liquor than any other cocktail. It does have more liquors. Just because it comes with vodka, gin, rum, and triple sec, the standard recipe only comes with a 1/2 oz. each of the vodka and gin and 1/4 oz. each of rum and triple sec. 1.5 oz. of liquor is the same that most restaurants/bars pour for a standard vodka & soda.
Chris
Maybe it's just the bars I frequent, but when I watch the bartenders make a Long Island they typically heavy-hand all the liquors and then do the shortest blast of coke from the soda gun at the end (and at that point, it's definitely more liquor volume-wise compared to, say, a rum & coke or vodka cranberry).
It is just supposed to be a splash of Coke, but there's also lemonade/sweet & sour in there for the other mixer. Heavy-handed bartenders definitely change the equation.
Chris
From what I've seen, the sweet & sour seems to go back & forth depending on bartender: some add it, some don't (and the ones without are the especially strong ones, since the missing mixer volume is essentially replaced with added liquor).
Re: icee discussion above, anyone here familiar with Smirnoff Ice's? (And by extension, getting iced?)
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 06, 2021, 11:47:36 AM
I like various Scotches, Irish whiskies, and bourbons. I do not care for the heavily-peated Scotches (Islays, etc.); I prefer Speysides and Highland malts. I also love Springbank, but it's gotten extraordinarily expensive and is hard to find anyway.
But we don't keep any liquor at home on a routine basis for reasons I don't care to discuss, and usually when I need something for a recipe or similar I buy miniatures. An exception is sometimes when we have someone coming over. My mom came over for Christmas dinner and I got a bottle of Ron Zacapa Centenario rum as an after-dinner drink for the special occasion. I may get another bottle of that for Mother's Day this Sunday because she liked it so much. I can keep a bottle of that around because it's not something that lends itself to pouring as a before-dinner drink, at least not to my taste it doesn't, and it's too expensive to waste mixing it with Coke or similar.
I love Springbank. I think the 10 year is better than the 15 for my palate.
Ron Zacapa is probably my 2nd favorite rum after the Foursquare that I listed above (and Zacapa is much cheaper). I also love Smith & Cross for making cocktails since it's so funky.
Chris
The Springbank I really like is the 21-year, but I haven't had it in a very long time because the price spiralled completely out of control. It was my father's favorite as well.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:57:48 AM
Re: icee discussion above, anyone here familiar with Smirnoff Ice's? (And by extension, getting iced?)
The best "icing" of all time was a buddy who put a pencil or something under the flapper in his roommate's toilet. So it was constantly running and when the roommate lifted up the tank lid to investigate, a delicious Smirnoff Ice was waiting for him.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 12:11:24 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:57:48 AM
Re: icee discussion above, anyone here familiar with Smirnoff Ice's? (And by extension, getting iced?)
The best "icing" of all time was a buddy who put a pencil or something under the flapper in his roommate's toilet. So it was constantly running and when the roommate lifted up the tank lid to investigate, a delicious Smirnoff Ice was waiting for him.
Chris
That is some serious dedication, A+ for effort!
My college roommates & I got fairly aggressive with icing during our last semester once we'd all completed degree requirements. One of them, knowing my affinity for mixing Hershey's syrup into milk to make chocolate milk, put an ice in the fridge where I normally kept the Hershey's.
(And similar to your story, I think one of them once iced another by finding a way to suspend an ice in the toilet bowl. But more often than not, it was as
stupid simple as putting one on a chair right behind the apartment door when we knew someone was about to return from campus.)
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:25:30 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
Vodka - They're essentially all the same, so normally just what's cheap.
Them's fightin' words! :)
Vodka is meant to be an odorless, flavorless spirit. So yes, they should all be basically the same. The only differences in vodka are the water source (which obviously could have other dissolved solids giving different flavors) and the heads/hearts/tails ratio. Outside of the absolute cheapest vodkas (Barton, McCormick, Viaka, etc.), those ratios are nearly the same with all other brands. No need to spend $40 on a bottle of Belvedere when a $16 bottle of Monopolowa is the same quality level.
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
Also: Gin is just flavored vodka. Change my mind.
No need to change your mind. I'm in 100% agreement.
Chris
There are lots of flavored vodkas as well as the flavorless kind.
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 11:50:11 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:25:30 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
Vodka - They're essentially all the same, so normally just what's cheap.
Them's fightin' words! :)
Vodka is meant to be an odorless, flavorless spirit. So yes, they should all be basically the same. The only differences in vodka are the water source (which obviously could have other dissolved solids giving different flavors) and the heads/hearts/tails ratio. Outside of the absolute cheapest vodkas (Barton, McCormick, Viaka, etc.), those ratios are nearly the same with all other brands. No need to spend $40 on a bottle of Belvedere when a $16 bottle of Monopolowa is the same quality level.
Oh, I'm not fighting it. I just know people who would.
My sister says she can tell the difference between different vodkas. But she is also very sensitive to mineral content in water as well, and can only tolerate certain brands of mineral water. So, in her case at least, it's believable.
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:25:30 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
Also: Gin is just flavored vodka. Change my mind.
No need to change your mind. I'm in 100% agreement.
I love reading articles and blog posts that have something like "Is gin just flavored vodka?" or "What is the difference between gin and flavored vodka?" in the title. They go on and on about how gin and vodka have different histories, how gin has a specific definition, the various production methods of each, etc, etc. And then, at the end, they claim to have shown how gin is not just flavored vodka. And yet nothing they wrote actually does any such thing.
Here's how I would word the question, and I challenge anyone to answer it:
If Smirnoff produced a vodka that was flavored with juniper berries, coriander, orris root, liquorice, and angelica–then give me one good reason it shouldn't be sold as "gin".
There's a lot of peculiarities in naming of wines and spirits. There's the regional names: if the grapes are from the Champagne region, it's champagne, but the same variety with the same process somewhere else is only sparkling wine. Then there's the fruit: grapes that are fermented and then distilled makes brandy, but distilled other fruits get their own special names, or just lumped together as eau de vie. The liquor business tries to hold on to traditional names for the various liquors, rather than using a strictly logical classification system.
Quote from: kkt on May 06, 2021, 12:46:35 PM
There are lots of flavored vodkas as well as the flavorless kind.
Exactly. Vodka starts its life as a flavorless distilled spirit. Flavored vodka has its flavors added to that base spirit in one of a variety of ways. Our point is that gin is simply one specific flavor profile of vodka.
Quote from: kkt on May 06, 2021, 12:58:54 PM
There's a lot of peculiarities in naming of wines and spirits. There's the regional names: if the grapes are from the Champagne region, it's champagne, but the same variety with the same process somewhere else is only sparkling wine. Then there's the fruit: grapes that are fermented and then distilled makes brandy, but distilled other fruits get their own special names, or just lumped together as eau de vie. The liquor business tries to hold on to traditional names for the various liquors, rather than using a strictly logical classification system.
Technically eau de vie is before the spirit has been aged, since it's "fresh" and the "water of life" at that point. So you can still have a grape-based spirit that's called eau de vie and specifically eau de vie de vin.
Chris
For the most part, I mostly just have vodka & coffee liqueur to do up some White Russians. I still remember on my second or third trip to a liquor store (here in PA, aka "State Store") EVER, a helpful clerk schooled me right. I went to the counter with actual Kahlúa brand coffee liquor, and absolutely bottom shelf vodka (Vladimir or some shit like that). There was no line at the register, so he took me back to where the bottles were located and told me to get the lesser known brands of coffee liqueur (usually either Kamora or Kapali) - which were a good bit cheaper, and then even it out by getting a more mid-shelf vodka. True knowledge that has served me well for a couple of decades now.
I have Rum, but haven't touched it in over a year.
I don't usually do anything straight up either - Occasionally shots of something if it's sort of a celebratory situation out with people....... maybe.
That being said, there is the Frank Reynolds motto:
(https://media.tenor.com/images/66259c05147613955c469dca57c9c57e/tenor.png)
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 10:24:14 AM
Besides wine, I also keep gin in the house. Each weekend, either Saturday afternoon or Sunday afternoon, I make a cocktail. Either a Gin & Tonic (with a squeeze of lime and a few dashes of Peychaud's bitters), a Tom Collins (with a few dashes of Angostura bitters), a grapefruit gin fizz (with an egg white), or a Salty Dog. Usually one of the first two.
I've tried several different gins:
Gordon's London Dry
Tanqueray Rangpur Lime
Beefeater London Dry
Bombay Sapphire London Dry
Bluecoat American Dry
Of those, the ones that mix the best into my cocktails are Beefeater and Bombay Sapphire. Those two don't impart any "off" flavors to the drink. The Bombay Sapphire adds some interesting other flavors, so I think that's going to be my go-to gin from now on. (Beefeater is basically all juniper, which is fine too.) I find it interesting that Bombay Sapphire is also the brand I grew up seeing in the house for my dad's occasional martini. It's also the brand my sister and her husband buy.
I've rounded out my liquor cabinet a bit more since posting this–mainly in preparation for a family vacation to Galveston a couple of months ago, at which I played bartender at the beach house.
Currently in possession:
Gin – Bombay Sapphire
Tequila – Espolón blanco
Rum – Cruzan aged dark
Sweet vermouth – Punt e Mes
Triple sec – Paisley & Sage
Amaretto – Di Saronno
Campari
Aperol
Angostura bitters
Peychaud's bitters
Orange bitters
... and "Kinky": a god-awful, super-sweet, bright blue liqueur that's impossible to drink straight but completely overpowers anything it's mixed with or anything within a ten-meter radius.
Other stuff on hand:
Tonic – San Pellegrino citrus
Ginger ale – Schweppes bold
Mineral water – La Croix pure
Lemons
Limes
One of my new favorite drinks is the Americano, which is equal parts sweet vermouth and Campari and then topped with mineral water. Last night, I had one but used Aperol instead of Campari, and that was great too.
Punt e Mes is nice vermouth. If you can ever track down a bottle of Del Profesore, that stuff is life changing.
Chris
Not currently in my cabinet (I wish), but my favorite liquors:
Lagavulin 16
Grand Marnier (the 150 year anniversary is my absolute favorite liquor of all time, but I've only had it once, when visiting a friend in NYC and NJ)
Jack Daniel's (especially single barrel)
Forgot to add... I also keep pineapple juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice, and maraschino cherries on hand too.
(Can you tell I like citrus fruits?)
Oh, I was not counting the wines, beers, and mixers / juices I kept on hand, only liquors. When I did drink. I used to have almost a full mini-bar at my house at one time.
And I forgot to mention absinthe, that's also one of my favorite liquors, or used to be, believe it or not, it takes an acquired taste.
Quote from: kphoger on August 26, 2021, 02:53:45 PM
Forgot to add... I also keep pineapple juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice, and maraschino cherries on hand too.
(Can you tell I like citrus fruits?)
Do you use amarone cherries like Toschi or Luxardo? Or just the generic neon-red Shirley Temple types? If the latter, I highly recommend purchasing some of the former for things like Manhattans, Aviations, etc.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on August 26, 2021, 03:04:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 26, 2021, 02:53:45 PM
Forgot to add... I also keep pineapple juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice, and maraschino cherries on hand too.
(Can you tell I like citrus fruits?)
Do you use amarone cherries like Toschi or Luxardo? Or just the generic neon-red Shirley Temple types? If the latter, I highly recommend purchasing some of the former for things like Manhattans, Aviations, etc.
Store brand, fluorescent red cherries in toxic slime. I really only keep them around for the syrup, which I occasionally add to an amaretto sour. (and to put on ice cream, of course)
Quote from: kphoger on August 26, 2021, 03:10:15 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on August 26, 2021, 03:04:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 26, 2021, 02:53:45 PM
Forgot to add... I also keep pineapple juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice, and maraschino cherries on hand too.
(Can you tell I like citrus fruits?)
Do you use amarone cherries like Toschi or Luxardo? Or just the generic neon-red Shirley Temple types? If the latter, I highly recommend purchasing some of the former for things like Manhattans, Aviations, etc.
Store brand, fluorescent red cherries in toxic slime. I really only keep them around for the syrup, which I occasionally add to an amaretto sour. (and to put on ice cream, of course)
Probably get a better bang for your buck with Rose's Grenadine, but to each their own.
Chris
Quote from: kphoger on August 26, 2021, 03:10:15 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on August 26, 2021, 03:04:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 26, 2021, 02:53:45 PM
Forgot to add... I also keep pineapple juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice, and maraschino cherries on hand too.
(Can you tell I like citrus fruits?)
Do you use amarone cherries like Toschi or Luxardo? Or just the generic neon-red Shirley Temple types? If the latter, I highly recommend purchasing some of the former for things like Manhattans, Aviations, etc.
Store brand, fluorescent red cherries in toxic slime. I really only keep them around for the syrup, which I occasionally add to an amaretto sour. (and to put on ice cream, of course)
I remember a party where a Star Wars group encouraged me to out-do my younger brother when he got so drunk he passed out in the floor and they put pepperoni slices over his eyes and took a picture.
They opened a quart jar of maraschino cherries and vodka and told me to help myself, I think I ate / drank most of the entire jar.
Such behavior holds zero appeal for me. I do not desire to do any of the following:
- make an utter fool of myself
- fall over
- throw up
- pass out
- have a hangover the next day
Quote from: kphoger on August 26, 2021, 03:24:45 PM
Such behavior holds zero appeal for me. I do not desire to do any of the following:
- make an utter fool of myself
- fall over
- throw up
- pass out
- have a hangover the next day
Same here now. Although then I didn't care, I was in my early or mid 20's.
What I buy for myself:
Scotch, Lagavulin 16yo
Cognac, Paulet VSOP
Kahlua
Cointreau
Grand Marnier
Ficklin (California) Port
And I have a lot of liqueurs, mostly fruit brandies, inheritited from my mom. She drank, and I drink, hardly at all - a tiny glass every couple of months, if that. It's nice enjoyed at that amount, for the flavor. I am not a happy drunk so I never go beyond a small glass.
I have never been a fan of the taste of alcoholic beverages. I know there are a number of roadgeeks who enjoy the taste of beer and ale and will sample different kinds of brews, but I'm not one of them.
Ditto for bourbon. Since I live in bourbon distilling country, I know lots of people who enjoy it. I'm definitely not one of them. After one unfortunate episode involving Makers Mark when I was in my 20s, I cannot even stomach the smell of whiskey anymore.
If I never have another drink again in my life, it will be no great loss.
I enjoy liquor best when it's added to another drink or a cocktail mixer. Spiked lemonade made with tequila is one of my favorites, as is a strawberry mojito. I generally avoid whiskey or bourbon for the most part.
Quote from: hbelkins on August 27, 2021, 04:21:52 PM
I have never been a fan of the taste of alcoholic beverages. I know there are a number of roadgeeks who enjoy the taste of beer and ale and will sample different kinds of brews, but I'm not one of them.
Ditto for bourbon. Since I live in bourbon distilling country, I know lots of people who enjoy it. I'm definitely not one of them. After one unfortunate episode involving Makers Mark when I was in my 20s, I cannot even stomach the smell of whiskey anymore.
If I never have another drink again in my life, it will be no great loss.
I suspect you simply don't like bitter flavors, considering you also don't like coffee.
In that case, you might actually like frou-frou drinks such as a Cosmopolitan.
Quote from: hbelkins on August 27, 2021, 04:21:52 PM
I have never been a fan of the taste of alcoholic beverages. I know there are a number of roadgeeks who enjoy the taste of beer and ale and will sample different kinds of brews, but I'm not one of them.
Ditto for bourbon. Since I live in bourbon distilling country, I know lots of people who enjoy it. I'm definitely not one of them. After one unfortunate episode involving Makers Mark when I was in my 20s, I cannot even stomach the smell of whiskey anymore.
If I never have another drink again in my life, it will be no great loss.
I tell you what, I love how hard it is to pin you down, HB. You don't like booze, you don't like tobacco, you don't like weed, you're fairly conservative (compared to me :P), but you have great taste in what "the kids" would consider "old school" hard rock. It pains me to see a Kentuckian who doesn't like bourbon (one of our American originals!) but when I read you talk about ACDC and Metallica and Ozzy and so on in other threads, I'm like, "This guy gets it." :-D
You're Punk Rock but only where you want to be and I respect that.
I'm thinking of cutting down on my drinking. I'm going to start using four ice cubes in my highball instead of three.
Quote from: hbelkins on August 27, 2021, 04:21:52 PM
Ditto for bourbon. Since I live in bourbon distilling country, I know lots of people who enjoy it.
Iron is the enemy of proper distillation. Central Kentucky, and a smaller patch in Tennessee, is blessed with deep limestone caves with water that has been down there for centuries, 100% iron free. This is why all good bourbon, IMHO, all bourbon, is made there.
Whether one drinks or not, the tours of the distilleries, especially Buffalo Trace, and especially if you can get Freddie Johnson as the tour guide, are great day trips. Pretty much you can do a triangle of I-64, I-65 and the BGP and get most of them.
Rant: Drink what you like, but avoid anything from the "Potemkin" distillery, of Midwestern Grain Products, or MGP, in Lawrenceburg, IN. The place was, for over a century, a plant that produced "filler" (grain alcohol added to rot gut whiskeys) for Seagram's. When they shut it, this crew bought it and if you want to trick people into thinking you are a "distiller" they will sell you some barrels and you can take it home, generally making up some fake country-western story about your family, and bottle it.
Any whiskey claimed to be made outside the bourbon producing region is probably MGP. They have made over 150 brands. Its all the same, and its all rot gut.
Quote from: SP Cook on August 31, 2021, 10:01:33 AM
Rant: Drink what you like, but avoid anything from the "Potemkin" distillery, of Midwestern Grain Products, or MGP, in Lawrenceburg, IN. The place was, for over a century, a plant that produced "filler" (grain alcohol added to rot gut whiskeys) for Seagram's. When they shut it, this crew bought it and if you want to trick people into thinking you are a "distiller" they will sell you some barrels and you can take it home, generally making up some fake country-western story about your family, and bottle it.
Any whiskey claimed to be made outside the bourbon producing region is probably MGP. They have made over 150 brands. Its all the same, and its all rot gut.
That's a touch misleading, as there are plenty of grain to glass distillers out there that aren't in Kentucky. But, I do agree that just getting MGP juice, aging it yourself and calling it "your whiskey" is a little bit underhanded.
Some good grain to glass whiskies out here: A.D. Law's, 10th Mountain, Wyoming Whiskey, Woody Creek, and Deviation Distilling (only his Barista series whiskeys are out, the other are all still in barrel, but I've gotten to barrel sample and they're delicious)
Chris
Quote from: Throckmorton on August 30, 2021, 08:39:23 PM
I'm thinking of cutting down on my drinking. I'm going to start using four ice cubes in my highball instead of three.
:-D
Quote from: SP Cook on August 31, 2021, 10:01:33 AM
Any whiskey claimed to be made outside the bourbon producing region is probably MGP. They have made over 150 brands. Its all the same, and its all rot gut.
Thanks for the warning, but isn't it a little too general?
Any whiskey outside the Bourbon region?? I guess that about wraps it up for Scotland.
Quote from: kkt on August 31, 2021, 07:06:41 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on August 31, 2021, 10:01:33 AM
Any whiskey claimed to be made outside the bourbon producing region is probably MGP. They have made over 150 brands. Its all the same, and its all rot gut.
Thanks for the warning, but isn't it a little too general? Any whiskey outside the Bourbon region?? I guess that about wraps it up for Scotland.
Scotland doesn't make "whiskey," only "whisky."
:bigass:
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 29, 2021, 11:32:52 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 27, 2021, 04:21:52 PM
I have never been a fan of the taste of alcoholic beverages. I know there are a number of roadgeeks who enjoy the taste of beer and ale and will sample different kinds of brews, but I'm not one of them.
Ditto for bourbon. Since I live in bourbon distilling country, I know lots of people who enjoy it. I'm definitely not one of them. After one unfortunate episode involving Makers Mark when I was in my 20s, I cannot even stomach the smell of whiskey anymore.
If I never have another drink again in my life, it will be no great loss.
I tell you what, I love how hard it is to pin you down, HB. You don't like booze, you don't like tobacco, you don't like weed, you're fairly conservative (compared to me :P), but you have great taste in what "the kids" would consider "old school" hard rock. It pains me to see a Kentuckian who doesn't like bourbon (one of our American originals!) but when I read you talk about ACDC and Metallica and Ozzy and so on in other threads, I'm like, "This guy gets it." :-D
You're Punk Rock but only where you want to be and I respect that.
In my youth (late 20s to very early 30s) I consumed a decent amount of alcohol, but finally figured out that there was really nothing in it for me. I never had any desire to be a tobacco user, as I saw smoking kill too many people I loved. And being intoxicated in general never really appealed to me; certainly not intoxicants that were illegal, were consumed via the ingestion of hot smoke into the lungs, or could lead to addiction. I just figured out that it was a lifestyle that wasn't for me.
Quote from: kkt on August 31, 2021, 07:06:41 PM
Thanks for the warning, but isn't it a little too general? Any whiskey outside the Bourbon region?? I guess that about wraps it up for Scotland.
I plead 100% guilty to posting an America/Kentucky-centric post. Scotch, and other Whiskey/whisky forms, such as "American whiskey" not labeled as "bourbon" , Irish, Japanese, Canadian, etc. are all enjoyable forms of the craft. I was speaking of things called "bourbon" not made in bourbon country.
Quote from: SP Cook on September 01, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: kkt on August 31, 2021, 07:06:41 PM
Thanks for the warning, but isn't it a little too general? Any whiskey outside the Bourbon region?? I guess that about wraps it up for Scotland.
I plead 100% guilty to posting an America/Kentucky-centric post. Scotch, and other Whiskey/whisky forms, such as "American whiskey" not labeled as "bourbon" , Irish, Japanese, Canadian, etc. are all enjoyable forms of the craft. I was speaking of things called "bourbon" not made in bourbon country.
Again, I'll be contrarian (maybe not
kphoger levels of contrarianism, but contrarian nonetheless). This isn't the same things as crappy California wineries calling wine they made in the 70's "Chablis". Bourbon is surely named after Bourbon County, Kentucky, but it's never needed to have come from there. The only requirements to be called bourbon are a) made in the U.S., b) made from 51% corn minimum, c) aged in charred, new, white American oak barrels, d) distilled to no more than 160 proof, e) aged at no more than 125 proof, and f) bottled at no less than 80 proof.
So, again, not using the crappy juice from Indiana (which, I agree, is largely terrible), anywhere in the U.S. can make great Bourbon. There are some darn good ones from Kentucky, yes, but it's not a requirement nor is it actually representative of the high level whiskeys in the marketplace. I know I'd much rather drink a couple fingers of A.D. Law's Four Grain Bourbon made here in Denver than I would a couple fingers of Jim Beam or Old Granddad.
Chris
We will just have to agree to disagree. You correctly quote the federal regulations. Which Freddie also quotes on his tour. To which he adds, and I agree, "so you can make "˜bourbon' anywhere, but if it isn't made here, you don't want it."
Quote from: SP Cook on September 01, 2021, 11:51:41 AM
We will just have to agree to disagree. You correctly quote the federal regulations. Which Freddie also quotes on his tour. To which he adds, and I agree, "so you can make "˜bourbon' anywhere, but if it isn't made here, you don't want it."
Hey, it's good to have pride in where you're from. Not disagreeing with that at all. If you ever make it out to Denver, I'll buy a pour of some of our good stuff so you can compare.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 01, 2021, 09:41:02 AManywhere in the U.S. can make great Bourbon.
They might make great whiskey that can legally be called Bourbon, but is it actually Bourbon without the sense of place? It's like if a Kentucky distiller called their product 'Scotch'. It might be great, but its got a different quality to how its advertised.
The water used, the air around the barrels as it ages, etc - they aren't the same elsewhere as in Bourbon County. Nearby they are similar enough that it doesn't matter, but elsewhere you are going to have to deal with the differences - either by artificially making things more similar, or by not caring about the differences.
A lot of breweries in the UK 'Burtonise' the water to give it a similar mineral content to the water in Burton-upon-Trent. Because this stuff does matter.
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 06, 2021, 11:25:30 AM
Vodka is meant to be an odorless, flavorless spirit. So yes, they should all be basically the same. The only differences in vodka are the water source (which obviously could have other dissolved solids giving different flavors) and the heads/hearts/tails ratio.
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 11:50:11 AM
My sister says she can tell the difference between different vodkas. But she is also very sensitive to mineral content in water as well, and can only tolerate certain brands of mineral water. So, in her case at least, it's believable.
Quote from: english si on September 01, 2021, 01:15:08 PM
The water used ...
A lot of breweries in the UK 'Burtonise' the water to give it a similar mineral content to the water in Burton-upon-Trent. Because this stuff does matter.
Yep. The water matters.
Quote from: english si on September 01, 2021, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 01, 2021, 09:41:02 AManywhere in the U.S. can make great Bourbon.
They might make great whiskey that can legally be called Bourbon, but is it actually Bourbon without the sense of place? It's like if a Kentucky distiller called their product 'Scotch'. It might be great, but its got a different quality to how its advertised.
The water used, the air around the barrels as it ages, etc - they aren't the same elsewhere as in Bourbon County. Nearby they are similar enough that it doesn't matter, but elsewhere you are going to have to deal with the differences - either by artificially making things more similar, or by not caring about the differences.
A lot of breweries in the UK 'Burtonise' the water to give it a similar mineral content to the water in Burton-upon-Trent. Because this stuff does matter.
Understood, but just as a lot of breweries Burtonize their water, some others also add and remove things to make it more like the water of Plzen (home of Pilsner). Both are great styles of beer. Bourbon County has water sources that are unique as does Colorado. Both can make great Bourbons.
The Scotch whisky example is a little bit different. If they make "Scotch" in Kentucky, in reality the only way to do it would be to import peated malt from Scotland, as those nice chunks of dried up bog aren't readily available in Louisville. So they're making it in a different place with most of the same ingredients exactly. It would be fairly easy to create a decent Scotch if you're basically moving Iverness to Lexington. It's not possible to get those same funky iodiny flavors without a lot of imports, whereas that's not the case with Bourbon.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 01, 2021, 01:49:59 PMUnderstood, but just as a lot of breweries Burtonize their water, some others also add and remove things to make it more like the water of Plzen (home of Pilsner). Both are great styles of beer. Bourbon County has water sources that are unique as does Colorado. Both can make great Bourbons.
Yes, and just as Burton and Plzen water both make great beer, they don't make the same beer. Likewise Bourbon County and Colorado water both make great
whiskey, they don't make the same whiskey without a lot of effort to turn Colorado into artificial-Kentucky (the kind of stuff you talk about to make Scotch in Kentucky).
I'm not saying anything bad at all about Colorado Whiskey. I'm just saying it's a misbranding to call it Bourbon unless they muck about with the water and all that.
QuoteThe Scotch whisky example is a little bit different. If they make "Scotch" in Kentucky, in reality the only way to do it would be to import peated malt from Scotland, as those nice chunks of dried up bog aren't readily available in Louisville. So they're making it in a different place with most of the same ingredients exactly. It would be fairly easy to create a decent Scotch if you're basically moving Iverness to Lexington. It's not possible to get those same funky iodiny flavors without a lot of imports, whereas that's not the case with Bourbon.
Scotch (like Burton beer) isn't a specific style, but covers a wider range. A lot of Scotch isn't peated, though some styles are.
Ireland has similar geology, water, peat, etc as parts of Scotland. It can't make Scotch, despite doing a similar recipe, but makes fine whiskeys that are it's own. All the more so for Kentucky and Colorado, which don't have anywhere near the same similarities in locally-available flavourings.
Actually, I'm unaware of any distilleries located in Bourbon County. Bourbon County is more known for horses than for whiskey.
There are several distilleries, however, in nearby Franklin, Anderson, and Woodford counties. A tour of the Woodford Reserve distillery was actually part of a tax administrators' conference Kentucky hosted in 1999. I was there as a photographer.
The Kentucky Bourbon Trail is indeed being marketed as a tourist activity.
For six years, I worked in an office in Frankfort that was an old warehouse leased from Buffalo Trace. There's a decent concentration of distilleries in the Nelson County/Bardstown area.
Side note: Anyone who has traveled I-65 in southern Bullitt County, Ky., has probably noticed black spotting on many of the signs. This is due to the emissions from the nearby Jim Beam distillery at Clermont (where my uncle worked for years before his retirement). On humid, foggy days in Frankfort, the odor from the Buffalo Trace distillery can be detected for miles. On a couple of recent trips to Frankfort, I've noticed the black residue popping up on road signs as far away as the US 60/421/460 intersection and at the top of the hill going north on US 127.
Quote from: english si on September 01, 2021, 02:36:20 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 01, 2021, 01:49:59 PMUnderstood, but just as a lot of breweries Burtonize their water, some others also add and remove things to make it more like the water of Plzen (home of Pilsner). Both are great styles of beer. Bourbon County has water sources that are unique as does Colorado. Both can make great Bourbons.
Yes, and just as Burton and Plzen water both make great beer, they don't make the same beer. Likewise Bourbon County and Colorado water both make great whiskey, they don't make the same whiskey without a lot of effort to turn Colorado into artificial-Kentucky (the kind of stuff you talk about to make Scotch in Kentucky).
I'm not saying anything bad at all about Colorado Whiskey. I'm just saying it's a misbranding to call it Bourbon unless they muck about with the water and all that.
But the difference in this case is that the Colorado distiller is (likely) not actively trying to make a hugely different style of whiskey than the Kentucky distiller, whereas Bass and Pilsner Urquell are massively different intentionally. I only brought up the different waters to show that there isn't just one exact profile of an ingredient that is required to make a certain beverage. Both Plzen water and Burton-on-Trent water make beer. But then when using those waters traditionally, those brewers are using other different ingredients to make their signature product. Bass obviously is an ale, so it requires top fermenting yeast and different roasts of the malt. Pilsner Urquell needs bottom fermenting yeast and has to ferment at a lower temperature, yadda, yadda, yadda. They're both beer but massively different products because of more than just their water source. With American whiskeys, there isn't as much variety because of the legal specifications of what constitutes Bourbon, Straight Bourbon, Bottled In Bond Bourbon, etc.
Quote from: english si on September 01, 2021, 02:36:20 PMQuoteThe Scotch whisky example is a little bit different. If they make "Scotch" in Kentucky, in reality the only way to do it would be to import peated malt from Scotland, as those nice chunks of dried up bog aren't readily available in Louisville. So they're making it in a different place with most of the same ingredients exactly. It would be fairly easy to create a decent Scotch if you're basically moving Iverness to Lexington. It's not possible to get those same funky iodiny flavors without a lot of imports, whereas that's not the case with Bourbon.
Scotch (like Burton beer) isn't a specific style, but covers a wider range. A lot of Scotch isn't peated, though some styles are.
And obviously by bringing up peat, I was ignoring Highlands and Lowlands whiskies that largely don't use peated malt, but I was trying to make a point. If you use only local ingredients in Kentucky, you're never going to make anything that tastes remotely like Dalwhinnie or Laphroaig. But if you imported a lot of ingredients from Scotland, you could create a reasonable facsimile thereof.
Quote from: english si on September 01, 2021, 02:36:20 PM
Ireland has similar geology, water, peat, etc as parts of Scotland. It can't make Scotch, despite doing a similar recipe, but makes fine whiskeys that are it's own. All the more so for Kentucky and Colorado, which don't have anywhere near the same similarities in locally-available flavourings.
They're actually not similar recipes though. They're actually closer to my beer example above. Scotch uses only malted barley. Irish whisky uses mostly unmalted barley. Scotch is typically double distilled while Irish is triple distilled, making Irish whisky generally smoother and lighter. Scotch uses a whole bunch of different styles of copper stills whereas Irish whisky is normally distilled in one particular kind (which is why there is less variety in Irish whisky than Scotch). The differences between Ireland and Scotland and their whisky traditions are MUCH larger than the differences between Colorado and Kentucky.
Chris
Quote from: hbelkins on September 01, 2021, 02:52:59 PM
Actually, I'm unaware of any distilleries located in Bourbon County. Bourbon County is more known for horses than for whiskey.
If I'm not mistaken, since it's a dry county, they
can't make whiskey there.
Chris
The county where they make Jack Daniels is also dry.
Bourbon County used to be a lot bigger, it got subdivided lots of times. The parts that gave their names to the drink are now in other counties.
Anyway, some guys opened a "craft" distiller in Paris about 4 years ago. Use a small still and 6 gallon barrels. I have not had the product.
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 01, 2021, 04:08:19 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 01, 2021, 02:52:59 PM
Actually, I'm unaware of any distilleries located in Bourbon County. Bourbon County is more known for horses than for whiskey.
If I'm not mistaken, since it's a dry county, they can't make whiskey there.
Chris
Actually, Bourbon County is wet -- the county seat of Paris certainly has been for years. There was an old saying, "Bourbon County is dry but Christian County is wet," but that's not true and hasn't been for years. You have been able to legally buy alcohol within the boundaries of Bourbon County for as long as I can remember.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 01, 2021, 06:33:10 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 01, 2021, 04:08:19 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 01, 2021, 02:52:59 PM
Actually, I'm unaware of any distilleries located in Bourbon County. Bourbon County is more known for horses than for whiskey.
If I'm not mistaken, since it's a dry county, they can't make whiskey there.
Chris
Actually, Bourbon County is wet -- the county seat of Paris certainly has been for years. There was an old saying, "Bourbon County is dry but Christian County is wet," but that's not true and hasn't been for years. You have been able to legally buy alcohol within the boundaries of Bourbon County for as long as I can remember.
Gotcha. That's why I prefaced with "If I'm not mistaken". I know I had heard that it was before, but apparently never took the time to verify. Good to know, thanks.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 01, 2021, 04:07:37 PMBut the difference in this case is that the Colorado distiller is (likely) not actively trying to make a hugely different style of whiskey than the Kentucky distiller, whereas Bass and Pilsner Urquell are massively different intentionally.
My point is that the brewers elsewhere are trying to make specific styles of beer and so copy the water of where that style was first made as its a key part of the recipe. It's not just "get good water" with Burton and Plzen waters both being good water for making beer and thus interchangeable - the waters make radically different beer, because they are radically different - as different as the different yeasts in the two different styles.
The difference in the other ingredients owes a lot to the difference in the water - arguably its in the ingredient that shapes the beer style the most. The soft water of Bohemia lends itself to lagering, the hard water of central/southern England lends itself to making darker ales (and that's just dealing with one factor of the water). Colorado water is significantly harder than the softer waters of Kentucky and Tennessee (https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/map-water-hardness-united-states) (the area where almost all Bourbon is made, though Tennessee doesn't like using that name to describe its similar whiskey) - that's going to give its own distinct features. They might not actively be trying to make a different style of whiskey, but are they actively trying to make that same style? Does the Colorado distillery make its water more Appalachian the way that brewers make their waters more like Burton/Plzen?
QuoteBut if you imported a lot of ingredients from Scotland, you could create a reasonable facsimile thereof.
So you can't make Scotch in Kentucky, but you can make "a reasonable facsimile" if you import a lot of ingredients. By this line of reasoning, you can make "a reasonable facsimile" of Bourbon in Colorado if you transport ingredients from further east. Lets suggest the adjusting of ingredients to match the original locale as being the same as importing.* But if its just going with the bare minimum legal definition (designed for defining the product for export to certain countries who use the term 'Bourbon' to mean 'American whiskey' while trying not to sully the term too much domestically), and using unaltered local ingredients, it's not even making "a reasonable facsimile" of what people actually mean by Bourbon. That's fine, but it is its own thing, not Bourbon.
*Even with beer - which is much easier to fake certain conditions than whiskey as you don't store it for years relatively exposed to outside conditions - there's been issues with certain beers (eg Guinness, Doom Bar) that didn't have the capacity to meet demand in the original brewery so they used breweries a couple of hundred miles away to meet certain markets. Obviously they mucked about with the water, used the same suppliers for the other products, but people could tell the difference and viewed the original as superior, leading to, eventually (not sure its happened yet with Doom Bar) all be made in much larger facilities near the original site.QuoteThe differences between Ireland and Scotland and their whisky traditions are MUCH larger than the differences between Colorado and Kentucky.
But the available ingredients are MUCH closer in Ireland to Scotland than the Rockies to the Appalachians. Ditto storing conditions and other such things that effect the product. I'm talking about if someone wanted to make Scotch in Ireland, using a similar recipe, not saying that they do actually use a similar recipe.
If an Irish distiller wanted to make Scotch with the peating, the malting, the only distilling twice, etc but didn't import (or muck about with to make closer) the ingredients, it wouldn't be Scotch, merely a similar product. We're talking about a step further away than what you call "a reasonable facsimile" here. But still closer than Bourbon made in Colorado as the difference in the ingredients and conditions is less.
Let Colorado be proud of what it makes, rather than trying to pretend its something else. That's what Tennessee does, despite having much more similar conditions to Kentucky than Colorado!
Going back to Pilsner, Miller Lite is not a Pilsner despite its branding in the US as such. For a start, it uses corn syrup to supplement the malt's sugars - a big no no for beer in Central Europe. It uses Galena hops in addition to the variety that define Pilsner. It's a Pilsner-based recipe, but it isn't a Pilsner. It adds stuff - as would using harder water in your Bourbon recipe. Doesn't mean its a bad beer, just means its mislabelled. I'm not particularly fussed if a Pilsner is made in Czechia or Canada, but there's defining elements of the style that require fairly precise ingredients (one of which is water). Same with Bourbon.
First things first, before I respond, a good article for anyone interested in MGP (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/behind-misleading-claims-fueling-america-s-bourbon-boom-n879651) (the Indiana distillery that produces a lot of whiskey for places that basically claim they make it themselves).
And apologies for the length of the post, but you put a lot of thought into yours, and I wanted to be able to respond as thoroughly.
Quote from: english si on September 02, 2021, 08:10:29 AM
My point is that the brewers elsewhere are trying to make specific styles of beer and so copy the water of where that style was first made as its a key part of the recipe. It's not just "get good water" with Burton and Plzen waters both being good water for making beer and thus interchangeable - the waters make radically different beer, because they are radically different - as different as the different yeasts in the two different styles.
The difference in the other ingredients owes a lot to the difference in the water - arguably its in the ingredient that shapes the beer style the most. The soft water of Bohemia lends itself to lagering, the hard water of central/southern England lends itself to making darker ales (and that's just dealing with one factor of the water). Colorado water is significantly harder than the softer waters of Kentucky and Tennessee (https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/map-water-hardness-united-states) (the area where almost all Bourbon is made, though Tennessee doesn't like using that name to describe its similar whiskey) - that's going to give its own distinct features. They might not actively be trying to make a different style of whiskey, but are they actively trying to make that same style? Does the Colorado distillery make its water more Appalachian the way that brewers make their waters more like Burton/Plzen?
I largely don't disagree with you, but as you mentioned in your reply, water is the most important ingredient in beer. It comprises 90-95% of the product, so of course it has a reasonably large impact on the flavor profile of different styles of beer. But obviously at a higher proof, there's less water in whiskey comparatively, so in turn it's less important in the overall composition. I'm not saying that it isn't important, but I would argue that it's less important than the grain, the barrels and other things that import flavor that comes across more easily than sedimentary materials in the water itself. I just texted a distiller friend of mine who says that everyone modifies pH and removes chlorine (everywhere), but he isn't familiar with any distilleries filtering through limestone. He also said that a lot of distilleries out here dilute with Eldorado Springs water to market it as Coloradoan.
Quote from: english si on September 02, 2021, 08:10:29 AMSo you can't make Scotch in Kentucky, but you can make "a reasonable facsimile" if you import a lot of ingredients. By this line of reasoning, you can make "a reasonable facsimile" of Bourbon in Colorado if you transport ingredients from further east. Lets suggest the adjusting of ingredients to match the original locale as being the same as importing.* But if its just going with the bare minimum legal definition (designed for defining the product for export to certain countries who use the term 'Bourbon' to mean 'American whiskey' while trying not to sully the term too much domestically), and using unaltered local ingredients, it's not even making "a reasonable facsimile" of what people actually mean by Bourbon. That's fine, but it is its own thing, not Bourbon.
Well, to start with, in my opinion the most important flavor component in whiskey is the barrel. By definition, for bourbon, the barrels have to be new, charred, American white oak. So that limits the amount of differentiation to start with. Whereas Scotch might utilize used bourbon or used sherry barrels for their aging, that's not allowed when you call it bourbon. In addition, almost every distiller gets their barrels from Independent Stave, a company based in Missouri. So if everyone is using the same barrels for their whiskey, again, there isn't really going to be a differentiation between different regions if the same component is used in all places. Then the other barrel component is the amount of char, which even within Kentucky/Tennessee varies distiller to distiller, so there's not a Kentucky type char and a Colorado type char. It's all allowed to be called bourbon as long as there is some char.
As for the grain itself, of course there will be a little bit of differentiation in the corn and/or adjuncts based on where they're grown. The real question is would corn grown in Kentucky taste different than the corn grown in Colorado? To be honest, I don't know. I know distilleries like to use their grain as a marketing technique, but it remains to be seen if anyone can actually smell/taste the difference of the "grain terroir". But this isn't like wine where I can smell the difference between grapes grown in limestone soil vs. a clay soil, which as a trained sommelier, I can do rather easily. I'd argue the most important contribution the grain provides to flavor is the grain bill itself, i.e. the percentages of corn, rye, barley, wheat, etc. And again, that varies just as much amongst Kentucky distillers as it does anywhere else.
My distiller friend said the following:
QuoteCommodity corn probably isn't going to taste any different, and that is what most use. Heirloom varieties (blue corn, etc.) do taste different, but that's probably not a product of where it's grown.
Quote from: english si on September 02, 2021, 08:10:29 AMBut the available ingredients are MUCH closer in Ireland to Scotland than the Rockies to the Appalachians.
I already argued against this above.
Quote from: english si on September 02, 2021, 08:10:29 AMDitto storing conditions and other such things that effect the product. I'm talking about if someone wanted to make Scotch in Ireland, using a similar recipe, not saying that they do actually use a similar recipe.
If an Irish distiller wanted to make Scotch with the peating, the malting, the only distilling twice, etc but didn't import (or muck about with to make closer) the ingredients, it wouldn't be Scotch, merely a similar product. We're talking about a step further away than what you call "a reasonable facsimile" here. But still closer than Bourbon made in Colorado as the difference in the ingredients and conditions is less.
The storage conditions are going to be largely the same for bourbon however, as again, it has to be in the same kind of barrel. Yes, there could be temperature/humidity variations depending on where you age the barrels, but I would argue that those effects are probably less than you'd think. Look at Maker's Mark or Jim Beam. They produce so much bourbon that they are aging their barrels in a climate controlled warehouse, not some specific cave with endemic bacteria and yeast that affect the flavor.
Quote from: english si on September 02, 2021, 08:10:29 AMLet Colorado be proud of what it makes, rather than trying to pretend its something else. That's what Tennessee does, despite having much more similar conditions to Kentucky than Colorado!
We are proud that we make damn great bourbon! And re: Tennessee, there's is just a marketing technique too. Calling it "sour mash whiskey" is just announcing on the bottle a technique that almost all distillers use, Tennessee or not. There is nothing different about Tennessee's whiskey. And Colorado distillers proudly call out that it's Colorado bourbon too, but I just take it for what it's worth that we're not doing things dramatically differently than our Appalachian counterparts. It's a lot like Tito's that became insanely popular because they labeled their vodka as gluten free. Well no shit, Sherlock. All spirits are gluten free unless they have additives like flavored vodka or something along those lines.
Quote from: english si on September 02, 2021, 08:10:29 AMGoing back to Pilsner, Miller Lite is not a Pilsner despite its branding in the US as such. For a start, it uses corn syrup to supplement the malt's sugars - a big no no for beer in Central Europe. It uses Galena hops in addition to the variety that define Pilsner. It's a Pilsner-based recipe, but it isn't a Pilsner. It adds stuff - as would using harder water in your Bourbon recipe. Doesn't mean its a bad beer, just means its mislabelled. I'm not particularly fussed if a Pilsner is made in Czechia or Canada, but there's defining elements of the style that require fairly precise ingredients (one of which is water). Same with Bourbon.
I agree that labeling matters. There needs to be certain standards for sure. But I think the crux of my argument (and for the record, I'm enjoying this discussion, so thanks for engaging), is I look at bourbon like I look at Burgundy. In Burgundy, there are very specific rules. If it's red, it's Pinot Noir -- the end. If it's white, it's Chardonnay or, very rarely in comparison, Aligoté. But within Burgundy, there are large differences. Those from the Côte de Nuits (the northern part of Côte d'Or) are a lot more delicate and elegant. Those from the Côte de Beaune (southern part of Côte d'Or) are more powerhouses. The cheaper whites (village level and below) are rarely aged in oak, where the Premier Cru and Grand Cru start to be. The soil is largely limestone, but there are variations within the region itself. But, either way, the AOC decided that the wines that met the basic standard could be called Burgundy (or a more specific regionalization).
The U.S. has decided that there are basic requirements for what constitutes bourbon. The requirements are specific in a certain sense and also pretty liberal in others. Since Kentucky distillers aren't consistent on a lot of those variables (grain bill, char level, ageing length, etc.), I don't see where the line is to exclude other regions from labeling their whiskeys are bourbon if there isn't an appreciable difference between the ingredients, the methodology, nor the flavor of the resulting spirit. Yeah, the U.S. is a larger region than Burgundy, but I feel like the analogy applies.
Chris
Quote from: SP Cook on September 01, 2021, 04:20:14 PM
The county where they make Jack Daniels is also dry.
They changed it in recent years so that's a little more "damp".
Quote from: The Oracle at WikiDespite being home to Jack Daniel's Distillery, Moore County itself had been completely dry. However, the County now allows the sale of commemorative bottles of Jack in the White Rabbit Bottle Shop and one can take part in a sampling tour at the distillery. It is also now possible to sample wine, rum, vodka and whiskey in shops where it is distilled on premises. Beer is also available in local food establishments when served with a meal.
While the major brands of Tennessee whiskey meet the legal definition of "bourbon" , the main points of which are:
- made in the USA
- mash bill of at least 51% corn
- aged in new, charred oak barrels
Tennessee whiskey if further defined by IRS rules, USMCA, and Tennessee state law with additional requirements:
- be made in Tennessee (duh)
- go through the Lincoln County Process.
The Lincoln County Process, which Jack Daniel's describes on the bottle as "charcoal mellowed, drop by drop" is just that. The whiskey passes, very slowly, through charcoal (Jack Daniel's far more slowly than George Dickel) before going into the barrel.
Thus while Tennessee whiskey is bourbon, it is usually not labeled as such, and is, in fact, a different product with an additional step used in its creation.
With the pandemic, my wife and I have gone long stretches without going to the gym. In the beginning, it's because cases are on the rise and we don't feel comfortable being around a bunch of strangers breathing hard. But then, when cases subside, we just don't go back. Because we're lazy. Anyway...
Every so often lately, we've been mentioning to each other how we really want to get back to the gym, how we miss exercising. Well, today got up over 70°F here in Wichita. So I got our bicycles out of the shed, hosed them off, aired up the tires, adjusted the saddles. And she and I went for a ride around town. But the wind is strong today and, by the time we got home, we were pretty tired. And there's nothing better after some outdoor exercise than a good cocktail.
For myself, I made a Jungle Bird:
3 parts dark rum
3 parts pineapple juice
2 parts Aperol
1 part lime juice
1 part double syrup
My wife doesn't like anything bitter, nor very sour, so I usually just make up something for her. Here's what I made for her today:
3 oz white rum
¾ oz double syrup
½ oz triple sec
the rest of the pineapple juice from the can, probably 4 oz or thereabouts
the rest of the lime juice from the juicer, probably ½ oz or so
Each one got a ride in the cocktail shaker with ice, then poured into cheap wine glasses with lime rings on the rims. Then I invited her out to sit with me on the front porch.
We always make sure to have a snack with drinks. I had a spicy peanut mix and some dried mango slices. She had Chex mix. While we were out there, our younger two sons came home from the playground.
What a nice few minutes with my wife, I must say.
Quote from: kphoger on March 05, 2022, 05:12:56 PM
With the pandemic, my wife and I have gone long stretches without going to the gym. In the beginning, it's because cases are on the rise and we don't feel comfortable being around a bunch of strangers breathing hard. But then, when cases subside, we just don't go back. Because we're lazy. Anyway...
Every so often lately, we've been mentioning to each other how we really want to get back to the gym, how we miss exercising. Well, today got up over 70°F here in Wichita. So I got our bicycles out of the shed, hosed them off, aired up the tires, adjusted the saddles. And she and I went for a ride around town. But the wind is strong today and, by the time we got home, we were pretty tired. And there's nothing better after some outdoor exercise than a good cocktail.
For myself, I made a Jungle Bird:
3 parts dark rum
3 parts pineapple juice
2 parts Aperol
1 part lime juice
1 part double syrup
My wife doesn't like anything bitter, nor very sour, so I usually just make up something for her. Here's what I made for her today:
3 oz white rum
¾ oz double syrup
½ oz triple sec
the rest of the pineapple juice from the can, probably 4 oz or thereabouts
the rest of the lime juice from the juicer, probably ½ oz or so
Each one got a ride in the cocktail shaker with ice, then poured into cheap wine glasses with lime rings on the rims. Then I invited her out to sit with me on the front porch.
We always make sure to have a snack with drinks. I had a spicy peanut mix and some dried mango slices. She had Chex mix. While we were out there, our younger two sons came home from the playground.
What a nice few minutes with my wife, I must say.
:cheers:
Quote from: hbelkins on September 01, 2021, 02:52:59 PM
On a couple of recent trips to Frankfort, I've noticed the black residue popping up on road signs as far away as the US 60/421/460 intersection and at the top of the hill going north on US 127.
I was wondering why this sign was darn near unreadable...
Across the street from the Wild Turkey distillery:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1954/43401779060_a89c5d461f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/298gsPw)
Isn't that kind of an environmental problem? If that black junk can accumulate on a sign, it could end up in your lungs...
Has anyone tried flavored tonic in their G&T?
I really like this one with a squeeze of lime and a dash of Peychaud's bitters:
(https://fevertree.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/thumbs/500x1200e/727c6abe1526ba6bbb2bf7a3a6874217.png)
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 10:46:36 AM
Has anyone tried flavored tonic in their G&T?
I really like this one with a squeeze of lime and a dash of Peychaud's bitters:
(https://fevertree.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/thumbs/500x1200e/727c6abe1526ba6bbb2bf7a3a6874217.png)
I really like their elderflower tonic. Works well when you have a less than premium gin in covering up some of the harshness. You don't even need much lime.
Quote from: formulanone on March 06, 2022, 09:59:44 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 01, 2021, 02:52:59 PM
On a couple of recent trips to Frankfort, I've noticed the black residue popping up on road signs as far away as the US 60/421/460 intersection and at the top of the hill going north on US 127.
I was wondering why this sign was darn near unreadable...
Across the street from the Wild Turkey distillery:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1954/43401779060_a89c5d461f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/298gsPw)
This is a problem in the vicinity of a number of distilleries in Kentucky. It's especially noticeable on the signs along I-65 near the KY 245 (Clermont/Bardstown) exit, which is close to the Jim Beam distillery. It's also becoming an issue in Frankfort along US 127 and US 421. I worked next door to the Buffalo Trace distillery for six years and on humid mornings, the smell of the mash was overpowering. Since I only go there infrequently now, it's even more noticeable to me, as you tend to get used to it if you're around it every day.
I only notice the black buildup on road signs. Not on buildings or other structures.
Does anyone on here make a batch of syrup and then store it in the fridge for use in cocktails? I've been considering this, rather than making a tiny bit on the stovetop each time.
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 10:24:14 AM
I've tried several different gins:
Gordon's London Dry
Tanqueray Rangpur Lime
Beefeater London Dry
Bombay Sapphire London Dry
Bluecoat American Dry
Of those, the ones that mix the best into my cocktails are Beefeater and Bombay Sapphire. Those two don't impart any "off" flavors to the drink. The Bombay Sapphire adds some interesting other flavors, so I think that's going to be my go-to gin from now on. (Beefeater is basically all juniper, which is fine too.) I find it interesting that Bombay Sapphire is also the brand I grew up seeing in the house for my dad's occasional martini. It's also the brand my sister and her husband buy.
Bombay Sapphire has definitely become my go-to gin. However, this time, I decided to buy a bottle of Tanqueray Nº 10 instead. It's quite similar, in my opinion. For someone who likes plenty of juniper and citrus (like me), it's pretty good. Well, I haven't tried it in a cocktail yet, but it was pretty good neat.
(https://theginisin.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Tanqueray-No.-10-gin-300x573.jpg.webp)
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 01:22:02 PM
Does anyone on here make a batch of syrup and then store it in the fridge for use in cocktails? I've been considering this, rather than making a tiny bit on the stovetop each time.
I usually have some real maple syrup on hands for exactly this purpose. I primarily use it to whip up an old fashioned every now and then, but for pretty much any cocktail that calls for simple syrup, you can swap in maple syrup with positive results.
(The unofficial state cocktail; Brandy Old Fashioned, sweet.)
We're one of the largest producers of maple syrup in the country up here and I personally know people who tap their own, so I always have some on hand. So much so that when you ask about making a "batch of syrup"; my head went straight to this process of tapping sugar maples and boiling down the sap into syrup. I like using it in cocktails that call for brown liquor.
Plus you know, pancakes and waffles. ;)
I'm having a hard time imagining that a Tom Collins would be better with maple syrup than with simple syrup...
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 01:22:02 PM
Does anyone on here make a batch of syrup and then store it in the fridge for use in cocktails? I've been considering this, rather than making a tiny bit on the stovetop each time.
Sorry I missed this yesterday (been in a ton of work training). Yep. Shelf life of a month. I use my tea kettle and boil water and dump it into a mason jar 1:1.
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 03:43:26 PM
I'm having a hard time imagining that a Tom Collins would be better with maple syrup than with simple syrup...
I like Demerara syrup with it. Same in my Old Fashioneds. Simple works well for light and fruity vodka drinks in general, and I tend to use Dem (as it's called in the biz) with almost everything else. Maple I'll leave pretty much for only whisk(e)y cocktails. Agave syrup instead of any straight up sucrose syrup for anything tequila/mezcal based.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 03, 2022, 03:50:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 01:22:02 PM
Does anyone on here make a batch of syrup and then store it in the fridge for use in cocktails? I've been considering this, rather than making a tiny bit on the stovetop each time.
Sorry I missed this yesterday (been in a ton of work training). Yep. Shelf life of a month. I use my tea kettle and boil water and dump it into a mason jar 1:1.
I've been considering doing double syrup (2:1) instead, because I've read it has a much longer shelf life.
I just always forget I made rich syrup and then my OFs are too sweet.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 06, 2022, 11:24:22 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 10:46:36 AM
Has anyone tried flavored tonic in their G&T?
I really like this one with a squeeze of lime and a dash of Peychaud's bitters:
(https://fevertree.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/thumbs/500x1200e/727c6abe1526ba6bbb2bf7a3a6874217.png)
I really like their elderflower tonic. Works well when you have a less than premium gin in covering up some of the harshness. You don't even need much lime.
Oh, I forgot to tell you, I tried the elderflower tonic last night. I do love citrus, though, so I also added plenty of lime juice. There were about two ounces left of Bombay Sapphire in the bottle, so I started with that and then added probably one additional ounce of Tanqueray N°10–both pretty heavy on citrus, and plenty of juniper between the two, so just what I prefer. Then some lime juice and several dashes of orange bitters.
I must say, I expected the elderflower tonic to be a lot more floral than it was. Instead, it had quite an inoffensive flavor: sweet and mellow. So I was pleasantly surprised in that way. But, perhaps for similar reasons, it left me wishing there were
more flavor to hold my interest. I'm certainly not disappointed, but I'll probably stick with the cucumber one in the future.
I've never really cared for a Negroni. I enjoy gin or red vermouth on its own, and I enjoy Campari in various cocktails, but for some reason I don't like all three mixed together like that. But, about a week ago, I had a variation that I enjoyed quite a bit more.
a typical Negroni recipe
1 part – gin
1 part – sweet vermouth
1 part – Campari
my take on a Cornwall Negroni
8 parts – Tanqueray N° 10 gin
4 part – Punt e Mes vermouth
1 part – Campari
1 part – Aperol
a few dashes – Fee Brothers orange bitters
This was substantially less bitter than a traditional Negroni. Because it was 57% gin instead of only 33% gin, the flavor of the gin came through much stronger, above the flavors of the other ingredients, but the other ingredients were by no means missing. The one thing I should have thought of earlier, but didn't until I was already halfway through the cocktail, is that the same size of this drink has 17% more alcohol. Not a huge difference, but still noticeable.
I tend to like mine with Aperol instead of Campari. A little less bitter.
Next time I'm at the liquor store, I plan to try this out next:
(https://cdn.diffords.com/contrib/bws/2017/10/59db850f67645.jpg)
I'm also planning to get some "regular" vermouth (dry and sweet), rather than only having Punt e Mes in the house.
Cynar is delicious. Who doesn't like an amaro made from artichokes. I like making black Manhattans with it.
JayhawCO:
On Saturday, my sister informed me that drinks made with gin affect her more than the same drinks made with vodka. She feels the effects more, any hangover-type aftereffects are more pronounced. This made no sense to me, considering that gin is literally just vodka that's been flavored with juniper berries and other botanicals during distillation. It turns out that she'd wondered that too and has read online anecdotal accounts of a lot of people saying the same thing: gin cocktails take a heavier toll than their vodka equivalents. Have you heard about this phenomenon? Do you have any thoughts about it?
In related news, my most recent gin purchase was Beefeater 24. Of course, the bottle is beautiful, which in my opinion definitely deserves a mention. But, more importantly, it's definitely in the short list of best gins I've tried so far. It has tasted good in every cocktail I've made with it. It is simultaneously assertive and inoffensive: the gin flavor shines through, no matter what other ingredients you throw at it, yet its flavor manages to complement them perfectly. In short, it's like the standard Beefeater, but with its flavor profile rounded out a bit by some citrus and herbal notes, so it isn't 99.95% juniper.
(https://cdn.diffords.com/contrib/bws/2018/01/5a71b60628381.jpg)
That reminds me of those experiments where they trick people into acting drunk by telling them their drinks are alcoholic when they're not.
Quote from: kphoger on September 06, 2022, 09:09:52 PM
JayhawCO:
On Saturday, my sister informed me that drinks made with gin affect her more than the same drinks made with vodka. She feels the effects more, any hangover-type aftereffects are more pronounced. This made no sense to me, considering that gin is literally just vodka that's been flavored with juniper berries and other botanicals during distillation. It turns out that she'd wondered that too and has read online anecdotal accounts of a lot of people saying the same thing: gin cocktails take a heavier toll than their vodka equivalents. Have you heard about this phenomenon? Do you have any thoughts about it?
In related news, my most recent gin purchase was Beefeater 24. Of course, the bottle is beautiful, which in my opinion definitely deserves a mention. But, more importantly, it's definitely in the short list of best gins I've tried so far. It has tasted good in every cocktail I've made with it. It is simultaneously assertive and inoffensive: the gin flavor shines through, no matter what other ingredients you throw at it, yet its flavor manages to complement them perfectly. In short, it's like the standard Beefeater, but with its flavor profile rounded out a bit by some citrus and herbal notes, so it isn't 99.95% juniper.
(https://cdn.diffords.com/contrib/bws/2018/01/5a71b60628381.jpg)
It depends if she's using a mixer and what type mixer. Carbonated beverages intoxicate people faster (https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/does-mixing-drinks-get-you-drunk-faster/), so if she's drinking gin with tonic water vs drinking vodka with OJ, gin will make her drunk faster.
Quote from: skluth on September 08, 2022, 12:23:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 06, 2022, 09:09:52 PM
On Saturday, my sister informed me that drinks made with gin affect her more than the same drinks made with vodka. She feels the effects more, any hangover-type aftereffects are more pronounced. This made no sense to me, considering that gin is literally just vodka that's been flavored with juniper berries and other botanicals during distillation. It turns out that she'd wondered that too and has read online anecdotal accounts of a lot of people saying the same thing: gin cocktails take a heavier toll than their vodka equivalents. Have you heard about this phenomenon? Do you have any thoughts about it?
It depends if she's using a mixer and what type mixer. Carbonated beverages intoxicate people faster (https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/does-mixing-drinks-get-you-drunk-faster/), so if she's drinking gin with tonic water vs drinking vodka with OJ, gin will make her drunk faster.
Pertinent phrases bolded. All else being equal.
Quote from: kphoger on September 08, 2022, 12:41:16 PM
Quote from: skluth on September 08, 2022, 12:23:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 06, 2022, 09:09:52 PM
On Saturday, my sister informed me that drinks made with gin affect her more than the same drinks made with vodka. She feels the effects more, any hangover-type aftereffects are more pronounced. This made no sense to me, considering that gin is literally just vodka that's been flavored with juniper berries and other botanicals during distillation. It turns out that she'd wondered that too and has read online anecdotal accounts of a lot of people saying the same thing: gin cocktails take a heavier toll than their vodka equivalents. Have you heard about this phenomenon? Do you have any thoughts about it?
It depends if she's using a mixer and what type mixer. Carbonated beverages intoxicate people faster (https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/does-mixing-drinks-get-you-drunk-faster/), so if she's drinking gin with tonic water vs drinking vodka with OJ, gin will make her drunk faster.
Pertinent phrases bolded. All else being equal.
Got it. I understood the same drinks part as meaning the same quantity of alcohol. Thanks for the clarification.
Ah, gotcha. No, I mean, for example, a vodka martini vs a real gin martini.
I don't have many alcohol opinions yet, and may never have, but one of the few I do have is that gin >>> vodka. Vodka has almost no taste, while I find the taste of gin quite pleasant in a mixed drink.
Quote from: webny99 on September 08, 2022, 07:19:51 PM
I don't have many alcohol opinions yet, and may never have, but one of the few I do have is that gin >>> vodka. Vodka has almost no taste, while I find the taste of gin quite pleasant in a mixed drink.
Psst. By definition, vodka is tasteless.
I can taste vodka.
I'm sure I could taste vodka by itself, but hardly in a mixed drink.
Quote from: Rothman on September 08, 2022, 11:25:17 PM
Psst. By definition, vodka is tasteless.
By definition before 2020, vodka was without a
distinctive taste. Not quite the same thing as "tasteless".
Since 2020, that's not part of the legal definition. Flavors that have been
added or
blended in trigger the necessity to label the product as "flavored vodka" rather than simply "vodka", but that's not the same thing. The base spirit is still defined as a "neutral" spirit, but neutral isn't quite synonymous with flavorless.
Quote from: Code of Federal Regulations
Title 27 – Alcohol, Tobacco Products and Firearms
Chapter 1 – Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, Department of the Treasury
Subchapter A – Alcohol
Part 5 – Labeling and Advertising of Distilled Spirits
Subpart I – Standards of Identity for Distilled Spirits
§ 5.142 – Neutral spirits or alcohol
(b) Types. The following chart lists the types of neutral spirits and the rules that apply to the type designation.
(1) Vodka. Neutral spirits which may be treated with up to two grams per liter of sugar and up to one gram per liter of citric acid. Products to be labeled as vodka may not be aged or stored in wood barrels at any time except when stored in paraffin-lined wood barrels and labeled as bottled in bond pursuant to § 5.88. Vodka treated and filtered with not less than one ounce of activated carbon or activated charcoal per 100 wine gallons of spirits may be labeled as "charcoal filtered." Addition of any other flavoring or blending materials changes the classification to flavored vodka or to a distilled spirits specialty product, as appropriate. Vodka must be designated on the label as "neutral spirits," "alcohol," or "vodka" .
Quote from: kphoger on September 06, 2022, 09:09:52 PM
JayhawkCO:
On Saturday, my sister informed me that drinks made with gin affect her more than the same drinks made with vodka. She feels the effects more, any hangover-type aftereffects are more pronounced. This made no sense to me, considering that gin is literally just vodka that's been flavored with juniper berries and other botanicals during distillation. It turns out that she'd wondered that too and has read online anecdotal accounts of a lot of people saying the same thing: gin cocktails take a heavier toll than their vodka equivalents. Have you heard about this phenomenon? Do you have any thoughts about it?
The only thing I can really think of is that a) she might be slightly allergic to juniper or quinine (normally found in tonic but sometimes added to gin itself), b) some gins might add some sugar to the spirit to help balance out the "edge" of gin that is a little bit more persistent than vodka, or c) gin is more delicious so she's drinking more of it without realizing. :)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 09, 2022, 03:13:43 PM
The only thing I can really think of is that a) she might be slightly allergic to juniper or quinine (normally found in tonic but sometimes added to gin itself), b) some gins might add some sugar to the spirit to help balance out the "edge" of gin that is a little bit more persistent than vodka, or c) gin is more delicious so she's drinking more of it without realizing. :)
Well, the first two don't apply, as their usual go-to gin is Bombay Sapphire. At least now I can tell her that you think she's crazy.
Quote from: kphoger on September 09, 2022, 03:29:57 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 09, 2022, 03:13:43 PM
The only thing I can really think of is that a) she might be slightly allergic to juniper or quinine (normally found in tonic but sometimes added to gin itself), b) some gins might add some sugar to the spirit to help balance out the "edge" of gin that is a little bit more persistent than vodka, or c) gin is more delicious so she's drinking more of it without realizing. :)
Well, the first two don't apply, as their usual go-to gin is Bombay Sapphire. At least now I can tell her that you think she's crazy.
Fair summary. They very well might add sugar (or glycerol) to even Sapphire for the U.S. market. Grey Goose is a vodka brand that's known to. I wonder if she's had an adverse reaction to that.
I stocked up at the liquor store on Saturday, and either they were out of my go-to tequila or they stopped carrying it. So, rather than purchase a different one without doing any research ahead of time, I decided to buy my first bottle of mezcal–without doing any research ahead of time. Yeah, looking back, that might not have been the most logical decision to make.
Anyway, I bought a bottle of Xicaru, which comes from Oaxaca. It is re-e-e-e-eally smoky. Not quite sure how I feel about that, but I'm leaning toward not liking it very much for that reason.
Also, I bought that bottle of Cynar.
Quote from: kphoger on September 26, 2022, 04:30:58 PM
I stocked up at the liquor store on Saturday, and either they were out of my go-to tequila or they stopped carrying it. So, rather than purchase a different one without doing any research ahead of time, I decided to buy my first bottle of mezcal–without doing any research ahead of time. Yeah, looking back, that might not have been the most logical decision to make.
Anyway, I bought a bottle of Xicaru, which comes from Oaxaca. It is re-e-e-e-eally smoky. Not quite sure how I feel about that, but I'm leaning toward not liking it very much for that reason.
Also, I bought that bottle of Cynar.
If they carry Derrumbes mezcal in Kansas, try to find the San Luis PotosÃ. It's not smoky at all (distilled in a copper still instead of burying the piña) and has flavors of Hatch green chile and jalapeño.
Here's what my liquor store carries:
Agave de Cortes - Joven Mezcal
Banhez - Artesanal Mezcal Joven
Bozal Espadin - Barril Mexicano Mezcal Ensamble NV
Del Maguey - Vida Single Village Mezcal
Monte Alban - Mezcal Con Gusano
Montelobos Mezcal - Mezcal Joven
Santo - Mezquila
Xicaru - Mezcal Silver
Tried Hard Mountain Dew out of curiosity (think it still has limited national availability). Came in a 24 oz can so had to store some, and noticed I liked it noticeably less the second time.
Quote from: kphoger on September 26, 2022, 04:44:09 PM
Here's what my liquor store carries:
Agave de Cortes - Joven Mezcal
Banhez - Artesanal Mezcal Joven
Bozal Espadin - Barril Mexicano Mezcal Ensamble NV
Del Maguey - Vida Single Village Mezcal
Monte Alban - Mezcal Con Gusano
Montelobos Mezcal - Mezcal Joven
Santo - Mezquila
Xicaru - Mezcal Silver
Of those, the Bozal will probably be the least smoky. You need to find some mezcals that aren't espadÃn, since those are almost always made in a smoky style. My favorite varieties of agave are Tobalá, Guerrero, and Arroqueño. They're far less common and definitely more expensive, but delicious.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 26, 2022, 05:01:18 PM
Of those, the Bozal will probably be the least smoky. You need to find some mezcals that aren't espadÃn, since those are almost always made in a smoky style. My favorite varieties of agave are Tobalá, Guerrero, and Arroqueño. They're far less common and definitely more expensive, but delicious.
I think it'll still do me well during times like this, when I have a cold. Also on cold days, I suspect the smokiness will be welcome. But my main issue is that it's hard to figure out how to make a cocktail with it.
Any suggestions for a mezcal cocktail?
Here's what I have to work with currently:
Gin (juniper-forward)
White rum
Aged rum
Brandy (not much left)
Jameson whiskey
Dry white vermouth
Sweet vermouth
Triple sec
Amaretto
Cynar
Campari (not much left)
Aperol
Orange bitters
Angostura bitters
Peychaud's bitters
And I always have a supply of La Croix, tonic, ginger beer, lemons, and limes
Go simple. Oaxaca old fashioned. I'm sure you know the recipe, but 2 oz. mezcal, .75 oz. simple syrup, three dashes (in this case) orange bitters. Stir. Heaven.
If you pick up any grapefruit juice, a mezcal paloma is always nice.
A cocktail that we made when we opened the restaurant in the hotel was muddled granny smith apple, 2 oz mezcal, 0.5 oz. lime juice, 0.75 oz. agave, top with ginger ale. We garnished it with acidulated green apple cubes. Pretty simple (by craft cocktail standards) and delicious.
Hibiki whisky (Suntory) is back in stock in northern CA (about $80). It's Harmony (the blend), 1 per customer, but I wasn't seeing it at all for a few years. Even in Japan, 2017, couldn't find any.
Quote from: kurumi on September 26, 2022, 09:35:18 PM
Hibiki whisky (Suntory) is back in stock in northern CA (about $80). It's Harmony (the blend), 1 per customer, but I wasn't seeing it at all for a few years. Even in Japan, 2017, couldn't find any.
It was fairly readily available in Denver. I bought two cases in 2018.
Since this thread exists, anyone have any ideas for a spin on the classic Jack & Coke? I like them but I'm getting tired of the flavor lately. Maybe cherry or vanilla Coke? Bars don't carry that though.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on September 26, 2022, 11:42:36 PM
Since this thread exists, anyone have any ideas for a spin on the classic Jack & Coke? I like them but I'm getting tired of the flavor lately. Maybe cherry or vanilla Coke? Bars don't carry that though.
'
Dr Pepper?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 26, 2022, 08:51:28 PM
Go simple. Oaxaca old fashioned. I'm sure you know the recipe, but 2 oz. mezcal, .75 oz. simple syrup, three dashes (in this case) orange bitters. Stir. Heaven.
If you pick up any grapefruit juice, a mezcal paloma is always nice.
A cocktail that we made when we opened the restaurant in the hotel was muddled granny smith apple, 2 oz mezcal, 0.5 oz. lime juice, 0.75 oz. agave, top with ginger ale. We garnished it with acidulated green apple cubes. Pretty simple (by craft cocktail standards) and delicious.
Thanks. I do keep grapefruit juice in the house, because that's what I have with breakfast every day. You may not be aware, but there's apparently a huge shortage of Ocean Spray white grapefruit juice these days, and I haven't seen it in stores anywhere for months. So I now have to go to Target to buy the Simply brand.
Would mezcal work in a sidecar-type drink?
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2022, 08:42:26 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 26, 2022, 08:51:28 PM
Go simple. Oaxaca old fashioned. I'm sure you know the recipe, but 2 oz. mezcal, .75 oz. simple syrup, three dashes (in this case) orange bitters. Stir. Heaven.
If you pick up any grapefruit juice, a mezcal paloma is always nice.
A cocktail that we made when we opened the restaurant in the hotel was muddled granny smith apple, 2 oz mezcal, 0.5 oz. lime juice, 0.75 oz. agave, top with ginger ale. We garnished it with acidulated green apple cubes. Pretty simple (by craft cocktail standards) and delicious.
Thanks. I do keep grapefruit juice in the house, because that's what I have with breakfast every day. You may not be aware, but there's apparently a huge shortage of Ocean Spray white grapefruit juice these days, and I haven't seen it in stores anywhere for months. So I now have to go to Target to buy the Simply brand.
Would mezcal work in a sidecar-type drink?
For sure. I'd say mezcal is more common with lime than with lemon, but that's just probably because lemons are far more rare in Mexico. It'd basically be a mezcal lemon drop which can't be bad I'm sure.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on September 27, 2022, 07:16:07 AM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on September 26, 2022, 11:42:36 PM
Since this thread exists, anyone have any ideas for a spin on the classic Jack & Coke? I like them but I'm getting tired of the flavor lately. Maybe cherry or vanilla Coke? Bars don't carry that though.
'
Dr Pepper?
Hmm, I'll try that, thanks.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on September 27, 2022, 12:24:30 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on September 27, 2022, 07:16:07 AM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on September 26, 2022, 11:42:36 PM
Since this thread exists, anyone have any ideas for a spin on the classic Jack & Coke? I like them but I'm getting tired of the flavor lately. Maybe cherry or vanilla Coke? Bars don't carry that though.
Dr Pepper?
Hmm, I'll try that, thanks.
I'm sure any bar would add Maraschino syrup if you asked.
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2022, 12:33:41 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on September 27, 2022, 12:24:30 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on September 27, 2022, 07:16:07 AM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on September 26, 2022, 11:42:36 PM
Since this thread exists, anyone have any ideas for a spin on the classic Jack & Coke? I like them but I'm getting tired of the flavor lately. Maybe cherry or vanilla Coke? Bars don't carry that though.
Dr Pepper?
Hmm, I'll try that, thanks.
I'm sure any bar would add Maraschino syrup if you asked.
Sounds tasty, but I'd run the risk of looking like a 20-something who has to have all their drinks taste fruity. Probably best if I'm at the bar alone. :D
Quote from: interstatefan990 on September 27, 2022, 12:50:58 PM
Sounds tasty, but I'd run the risk of looking like a 20-something who has to have all their drinks taste fruity. Probably best if I'm at the bar alone. :D
Have you tried just ordering a Cherry Coke & Jack? Do they actually say they can't handle it?
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2022, 12:54:55 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on September 27, 2022, 12:50:58 PM
Sounds tasty, but I'd run the risk of looking like a 20-something who has to have all their drinks taste fruity. Probably best if I'm at the bar alone. :D
Have you tried just ordering a Cherry Coke & Jack? Do they actually say they can't handle it?
Every bar in the world has grenadine.
Mostly, I'm a beer man; I prefer IPAs, but will drink almost any beer except Bud & Bud Lite. I like trying the local beers when I travel, but there are a fair number of local breweries that I haven't tried yet. When I buy beer for the house, or to take to a party, I almost always buy Rhinegeist Truth or a Hop Box (12-pack of four different IPAs) - for 2 reasons. 1. I like it. 2. My son is a sales manager for Rhinegeist, and the company is employee-owned, so by buying their beer, I am helping pay for my grandsons' college tuition!
I do like a good bourbon - usually in the form of a Manhattan.
Occasionally, I'll have white wine (usually Pinot Grigio). Rarely do I drink red wine.
I don't drink, so I don't have first-hand experience with this, but has anyone here tried Ukrainian vodka? Since the war started, I've seen a few people say they've switched over due to their usual Russian brands being unavailable, and found they liked the Ukrainian stuff better.
I just opened my latest bottle of gin: Martin Miller's.
For a citrus lover like me, it's great for drinking neat. The orange zest is bold and unmistakable, but juniper is by no means lacking. (The citrus botanicals are kept separate from the others, and I suppose that attention to detail pays off on my palate.) I haven't yet tried it in a cocktail, so time will tell if its flavor gets lost when mixed. I must say, I'm intrigued to try it in drinks that feature orange-flavored components, which means I might finally get around to making a Flying Dutchman, and I might even switch from Peychaud's to orange bitters in my next G&T.
It's a bit pretentious, considering that the gin is distilled in West Midlands (England) but then gets shipped to Iceland to be diluted with that country's supposedly superior water. But whatever.
(https://www.theginguild.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/martin-millers-gin-bottle.jpg)
I used to have a thing for Miller High Life, as it was the best of both worlds, and was once on a Jack and Coke regimen. I'm now dry.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 27, 2022, 06:38:40 PM
I don't drink, so I don't have first-hand experience with this, but has anyone here tried Ukrainian vodka? Since the war started, I've seen a few people say they've switched over due to their usual Russian brands being unavailable, and found they liked the Ukrainian stuff better.
There are very few vodkas sold in the U.S. that are actually Russian. Russian Standard is the most widely sold but even things like Stolichnaya (Stoli) are made and owned elsewhere.
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2022, 12:54:55 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on September 27, 2022, 12:50:58 PM
Sounds tasty, but I'd run the risk of looking like a 20-something who has to have all their drinks taste fruity. Probably best if I'm at the bar alone. :D
Have you tried just ordering a Cherry Coke & Jack? Do they actually say they can't handle it?
I haven't, but I'm not expecting them to. Usually they just have regular Coke and for those that prefer, Diet Coke. I'll ask next time I go, though.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 27, 2022, 09:02:26 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 27, 2022, 06:38:40 PM
I don't drink, so I don't have first-hand experience with this, but has anyone here tried Ukrainian vodka? Since the war started, I've seen a few people say they've switched over due to their usual Russian brands being unavailable, and found they liked the Ukrainian stuff better.
There are very few vodkas sold in the U.S. that are actually Russian. Russian Standard is the most widely sold but even things like Stolichnaya (Stoli) are made and owned elsewhere.
My Russian vodka says it was Made in the USSR. I have had the bottle for a while...
Quote from: kkt on September 27, 2022, 09:47:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 27, 2022, 09:02:26 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 27, 2022, 06:38:40 PM
I don't drink, so I don't have first-hand experience with this, but has anyone here tried Ukrainian vodka? Since the war started, I've seen a few people say they've switched over due to their usual Russian brands being unavailable, and found they liked the Ukrainian stuff better.
There are very few vodkas sold in the U.S. that are actually Russian. Russian Standard is the most widely sold but even things like Stolichnaya (Stoli) are made and owned elsewhere.
My Russian vodka says it was Made in the USSR. I have had the bottle for a while...
Which brand?
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2022, 07:19:33 PM
I just opened my latest bottle of gin: Martin Miller's.
For a citrus lover like me, it's great for drinking neat. The orange zest is bold and unmistakable, but juniper is by no means lacking. (The citrus botanicals are kept separate from the others, and I suppose that attention to detail pays off on my palate.) I haven't yet tried it in a cocktail, so time will tell if its flavor gets lost when mixed. I must say, I'm intrigued to try it in drinks that feature orange-flavored components, which means I might finally get around to making a Flying Dutchman, and I might even switch from Peychaud's to orange bitters in my next G&T.
It's a bit pretentious, considering that the gin is distilled in West Midlands (England) but then gets shipped to Iceland to be diluted with that country's supposedly superior water. But whatever.
(https://www.theginguild.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/martin-millers-gin-bottle.jpg)
I've never tasted that one. If you ever make it out here, I'll have a bottle of gin waiting for you. My buddy is the master distiller at Deviation Distilling and they make 4 delicious gins. I used to moonlight there for a while at their tasting room/cocktail bar as a bartender before my son was born. If you like the citrus, their Citrus Rosé would be right up your alley - grapefruit and tarragon are the main botanicals (after juniper of course).
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 28, 2022, 09:29:04 AM
Quote from: kkt on September 27, 2022, 09:47:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 27, 2022, 09:02:26 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 27, 2022, 06:38:40 PM
I don't drink, so I don't have first-hand experience with this, but has anyone here tried Ukrainian vodka? Since the war started, I've seen a few people say they've switched over due to their usual Russian brands being unavailable, and found they liked the Ukrainian stuff better.
There are very few vodkas sold in the U.S. that are actually Russian. Russian Standard is the most widely sold but even things like Stolichnaya (Stoli) are made and owned elsewhere.
My Russian vodka says it was Made in the USSR. I have had the bottle for a while...
Which brand?
Stolichnaya
Quote from: kkt on September 28, 2022, 09:33:23 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 28, 2022, 09:29:04 AM
Quote from: kkt on September 27, 2022, 09:47:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 27, 2022, 09:02:26 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 27, 2022, 06:38:40 PM
I don't drink, so I don't have first-hand experience with this, but has anyone here tried Ukrainian vodka? Since the war started, I've seen a few people say they've switched over due to their usual Russian brands being unavailable, and found they liked the Ukrainian stuff better.
There are very few vodkas sold in the U.S. that are actually Russian. Russian Standard is the most widely sold but even things like Stolichnaya (Stoli) are made and owned elsewhere.
My Russian vodka says it was Made in the USSR. I have had the bottle for a while...
Which brand?
Stolichnaya
Now it's owned by a company from Luxembourg and produced in Latvia. It looks like they did source some alcohol from a Russian distillery (while still finishing it in Latvia) prior to the invasion, but now they get the base liquor from Slovakia. The name is now officially 'Stoli' too, to make it seem less Russian.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 28, 2022, 09:38:06 AM
Quote from: kkt on September 28, 2022, 09:33:23 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 28, 2022, 09:29:04 AM
Quote from: kkt on September 27, 2022, 09:47:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 27, 2022, 09:02:26 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 27, 2022, 06:38:40 PM
I don't drink, so I don't have first-hand experience with this, but has anyone here tried Ukrainian vodka? Since the war started, I've seen a few people say they've switched over due to their usual Russian brands being unavailable, and found they liked the Ukrainian stuff better.
There are very few vodkas sold in the U.S. that are actually Russian. Russian Standard is the most widely sold but even things like Stolichnaya (Stoli) are made and owned elsewhere.
My Russian vodka says it was Made in the USSR. I have had the bottle for a while...
Which brand?
Stolichnaya
Now it's owned by a company from Luxembourg and produced in Latvia. It looks like they did source some alcohol from a Russian distillery (while still finishing it in Latvia) prior to the invasion, but now they get the base liquor from Slovakia. The name is now officially 'Stoli' too, to make it seem less Russian.
Jeez.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 27, 2022, 09:45:21 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2022, 08:42:26 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 26, 2022, 08:51:28 PM
Go simple. Oaxaca old fashioned. I'm sure you know the recipe, but 2 oz. mezcal, .75 oz. simple syrup, three dashes (in this case) orange bitters. Stir. Heaven.
If you pick up any grapefruit juice, a mezcal paloma is always nice.
A cocktail that we made when we opened the restaurant in the hotel was muddled granny smith apple, 2 oz mezcal, 0.5 oz. lime juice, 0.75 oz. agave, top with ginger ale. We garnished it with acidulated green apple cubes. Pretty simple (by craft cocktail standards) and delicious.
Thanks. I do keep grapefruit juice in the house, because that's what I have with breakfast every day. You may not be aware, but there's apparently a huge shortage of Ocean Spray white grapefruit juice these days, and I haven't seen it in stores anywhere for months. So I now have to go to Target to buy the Simply brand.
Would mezcal work in a sidecar-type drink?
For sure. I'd say mezcal is more common with lime than with lemon, but that's just probably because lemons are far more rare in Mexico. It'd basically be a mezcal lemon drop which can't be bad I'm sure.
By the way, I tried this last night after church activities. 4 parts mezcal, 2 parts lemon juice, 1 part triple sec, 1 part double/rich syrup, 1 part water.
It totally transformed the mezcal! Instead of tasting like pure ethanol that had a smouldering tractor tire in it for three years, that Xicaru blended nicely with the sweet lemony yum yums. It's a keeper of a recipe, for sure.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 03, 2022, 04:34:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:29:28 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 03, 2022, 04:19:46 PM
You need the pretty filets in oil like this.
[img
As I said, I don't know a local source to buy those from.
If you ever get out here for a vacation anytime soon, I'll buy you some. There are a couple of specialty grocers that have them here.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 28, 2022, 09:31:08 AM
I've never tasted that one. If you ever make it out here, I'll have a bottle of gin waiting for you.
I know I haven't paid you a visit, but don't worry, I'm keeping track of the things you've promised. So far, it's a bottle of gin and some
boquerones. :nod:
Funny enough, I was in Boulder about two months ago with a church mission trip, but I couldn't exactly borrow a vehicle to go snack on some imported preserved fish with you. Next time!
OK, I think this mezcal is going to work out fine for cocktails. I just made one up yesterday that was a pretty good success.
5 parts mezcal
3 parts lime juice
1 part grapefruit juice
1 part Aperol
1 part agave nectar
orange bitters
Quote from: kphoger on October 03, 2022, 03:28:48 PM
OK, I think this mezcal is going to work out fine for cocktails. I just made one up yesterday that was a pretty good success.
5 parts mezcal
3 parts lime juice
1 part grapefruit juice
1 part Aperol
1 part agave nectar
orange bitters
I wish I liked Campari/Aperol more. I don't mind it as an adjunct flavor if I order a cocktail out, but I don't like it well enough to own any.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 16, 2022, 08:55:04 AM
Cynar is delicious. Who doesn't like an amaro made from artichokes. I like making black Manhattans with it.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 03, 2022, 05:05:41 PM
I wish I liked Campari/Aperol more. I don't mind it as an adjunct flavor if I order a cocktail out, but I don't like it well enough to own any.
Interesting. To me, Cynar tastes so much like Campari, that it's hard to imagine someone loving one but not caring for the other.
I usually add a low-ABV triple sec when I make a margarita, but I swapped in Aperol for this mezcal version in order to keep it from being too sweet.
I used Aperol all the time. For example, I really enjoy an Americano made with Punt e Mes and Aperol. (I'm almost out of Punt e Mes, so I'll see how it works out with "regular old" sweet vermouth.)
To me, Campari has this cotton candy-ness thing to it that I just don't dig. I like my amari to be bitter but dark.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 09, 2022, 03:13:43 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 06, 2022, 09:09:52 PM
JayhawkCO:
On Saturday, my sister informed me that drinks made with gin affect her more than the same drinks made with vodka. She feels the effects more, any hangover-type aftereffects are more pronounced. This made no sense to me, considering that gin is literally just vodka that's been flavored with juniper berries and other botanicals during distillation. It turns out that she'd wondered that too and has read online anecdotal accounts of a lot of people saying the same thing: gin cocktails take a heavier toll than their vodka equivalents. Have you heard about this phenomenon? Do you have any thoughts about it?
The only thing I can really think of is that a) she might be slightly allergic to juniper or quinine (normally found in tonic but sometimes added to gin itself), b) some gins might add some sugar to the spirit to help balance out the "edge" of gin that is a little bit more persistent than vodka, or c) gin is more delicious so she's drinking more of it without realizing. :)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 09, 2022, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 09, 2022, 03:29:57 PM
Well, the first two don't apply, as their usual go-to gin is Bombay Sapphire. At least now I can tell her that you think she's crazy.
Fair summary. They very well might add sugar (or glycerol) to even Sapphire for the U.S. market. Grey Goose is a vodka brand that's known to. I wonder if she's had an adverse reaction to that.
I just realized that I never followed up on this.
What my sister found in her research is this: congeners.
https://www.mic.com/life/which-alcohol-makes-you-hungover-experts-explain-79198424
Quote from: kphoger on October 06, 2022, 11:11:35 AM
I just realized that I never followed up on this.
What my sister found in her research is this: congeners.
https://www.mic.com/life/which-alcohol-makes-you-hungover-experts-explain-79198424
Makes sense, and gin is certainly aromatic.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 06, 2022, 11:16:49 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 26, 2022, 04:57:44 PMHard Mountain Dew
Wait, this actually exists?
Everybody wanted to get into the seltzer/malt beverage craze that comes in waves. Back in the day it was Zima, then it was Smirnoff Ice/Skyy Blue/Stoli Something or another/etc. Now it's seltzers. They'll go away in a year or two and then be popular again in 10 years.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 06, 2022, 11:22:40 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 06, 2022, 11:16:49 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 26, 2022, 04:57:44 PMHard Mountain Dew
Wait, this actually exists?
Everybody wanted to get into the seltzer/malt beverage craze that comes in waves. Back in the day it was Zima, then it was Smirnoff Ice/Skyy Blue/Stoli Something or another/etc. Now it's seltzers. They'll go away in a year or two and then be popular again in 10 years.
Yeah, I've heard that the real reason alcopops exploded in popularity in the late 90s/early 2000s was the fact that liquor companies couldn't advertise hard liquor on TV, but they could advertise for alcopops, but I have no idea if that's true or not.
Quote from: kphoger on October 03, 2022, 05:58:46 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 16, 2022, 08:55:04 AM
Cynar is delicious. Who doesn't like an amaro made from artichokes. I like making black Manhattans with it.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 03, 2022, 05:05:41 PM
I wish I liked Campari/Aperol more. I don't mind it as an adjunct flavor if I order a cocktail out, but I don't like it well enough to own any.
Interesting. To me, Cynar tastes so much like Campari, that it's hard to imagine someone loving one but not caring for the other.
I usually add a low-ABV triple sec when I make a margarita, but I swapped in Aperol for this mezcal version in order to keep it from being too sweet.
I used Aperol all the time. For example, I really enjoy an Americano made with Punt e Mes and Aperol. (I'm almost out of Punt e Mes, so I'll see how it works out with "regular old" sweet vermouth.)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 03, 2022, 08:14:13 PM
To me, Campari has this cotton candy-ness thing to it that I just don't dig. I like my amari to be bitter but dark.
Oh, wow. When I said that Cynar tastes similar to Campari, I had only used the former in a cocktail. On Saturday, I had about 1½ ounces of Cynar, neat with a splash of Aperol, as a digestif. Amazing! And yeah, I totally understand now how you can love the one and dislike the other. Cynar truly is delicious.
So far, every cocktail I've made with mezcal has been eye-opening, with the mezcal being a well-balanced part of the whole. I'm surprised every time at the transformation.
Most recently was a riff on a Negroni, but more enjoyable:
3 parts – mezcal
2 parts – Cynar
1 part – sweet vermouth
1 part – dry vermouth
Quote from: kphoger on October 18, 2022, 02:13:25 PM
So far, every cocktail I've made with mezcal has been eye-opening, with the mezcal being a well-balanced part of the whole. I'm surprised every time at the transformation.
Most recently was a riff on a Negroni, but more enjoyable:
3 parts – mezcal
2 parts – Cynar
1 part – sweet vermouth
1 part – dry vermouth
I can see that being delightful. I don't honestly remember the last time I used dry vermouth in anything (as I don't really enjoy martinis and I tend to like vermut bianco better than dry if I'm using a non-"sweet vermouth"). But it has its moments.
Have you ever had fernet?
No, I haven't.
Quote from: kphoger on October 18, 2022, 05:15:47 PM
No, I haven't.
Fernet Branca is my digestif of choice. Not going to lie; it kind of tastes like toothpaste water, but in the most heavenly way. I drink it by itself far more than I've ever used it in cocktails, but I did a coconut fat washed fernet one time that was super lovely.
It is the ideal epilogue to a very rich meal.
Maybe this is obvious to other people, but it just dawned on me yesterday: liquor is actually more economical than wine. Intuitively, I assumed that wine is more economical because a decent bottle can easily be found for under $20, whereas distilled liquor can easily run upward of $40 or $50 a bottle. But...
One standard pour of wine is about 15 cl, meaning there are five servings in one bottle of wine. For an $18 bottle of wine, that works out to $3.60 per serving.
One standard pour of 40% ABV liquor is about 4.4 cl, meaning there are about 17 servings in one bottle.
Therefore, a $60 bottle of liquor is roughly equivalent to an $18 bottle of wine. This surprised me.
Moreover, the flavor of wine deteriorates quickly as soon as the bottle is opened, whereas most liquor is just fine a few months later. For this reason, I always make sure to polish off or dump out a partial bottle of wine within about three days of opening it. Not so with liquor–although there is a little pressure to use up low ABV items within a couple of months, even if they're in the fridge.
This has all led me to be more willing to give something a try, even if it's a little expensive. If I'm willing to roll the dice on a $20 bottle of wine, then why wouldn't I be willing to roll the dice on a $60 bottle of liquor–especially when, even if I don't end up liking it, there are bound to be several successful ways to use it in a cocktail.
And this is also why the markup is the highest for mixed drinks in restaurants. Since people don't really blink when they pay the same thing for a glass of wine vs. a cocktail, my previous restaurant ran a 28% cost on wine and a 18% cost on liquor.
On a sad note, it's also why alcoholics get drunk on hard liquor more so than wine or beer; it's cheaper.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 18, 2022, 06:34:22 PM
Since people don't really blink when they pay the same thing for a glass of wine vs. a cocktail, my previous restaurant ran a 28% cost on wine and a 18% cost on liquor.
Out of curiosity, which restaurant was your last restaurant? Milwaukee?
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2022, 03:29:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 18, 2022, 06:34:22 PM
Since people don't really blink when they pay the same thing for a glass of wine vs. a cocktail, my previous restaurant ran a 28% cost on wine and a 18% cost on liquor.
Out of curiosity, which restaurant was your last restaurant? Milwaukee?
I was the F&B director at the Jacquard Hotel so I ran Narrative. Previously I was the GM of TAG and Guard & Grace.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 19, 2022, 04:46:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2022, 03:29:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 18, 2022, 06:34:22 PM
Since people don't really blink when they pay the same thing for a glass of wine vs. a cocktail, my previous restaurant ran a 28% cost on wine and a 18% cost on liquor.
Out of curiosity, which restaurant was your last restaurant? Milwaukee?
I was the F&B director at the Jacquard Hotel so I ran Narrative. Previously I was the GM of TAG and Guard & Grace.
Gotcha. I was confused because, back when I was looking to see what establishments you had managed, I remember seeing an article that seemed to imply you were GM at Milwaukee Street. But apparently it was just bad editing on the part of CBS.
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 12:17:21 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 19, 2022, 04:46:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2022, 03:29:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 18, 2022, 06:34:22 PM
Since people don't really blink when they pay the same thing for a glass of wine vs. a cocktail, my previous restaurant ran a 28% cost on wine and a 18% cost on liquor.
Out of curiosity, which restaurant was your last restaurant? Milwaukee?
I was the F&B director at the Jacquard Hotel so I ran Narrative. Previously I was the GM of TAG and Guard & Grace.
Gotcha. I was confused because, back when I was looking to see what establishments you had managed, I remember seeing an article that seemed to imply you were GM at Milwaukee Street. But apparently it was just bad editing on the part of CBS.
The Jacquard is on Milwaukee Street, right across from a nice little dive bar called Milwaukee Street Tavern.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 20, 2022, 01:16:23 PM
The Jacquard is on Milwaukee Street, right across from a nice little dive bar called Milwaukee Street Tavern.
Right. It's just that the article was talking about Milwaukee Street Tavern, then referred to you as simply "restaurant manager ____ ____"–but failing to mention the establishment you were actually managing at the time. When I first read it, I mistakenly thought that meant you were GM at Milwaukee Street (and changed jobs a LOT during the last few years). In reality, I assume, they simply interviewed a bunch of you in the area, and then the article didn't even pass through a copy editor before publication.
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 01:23:37 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 20, 2022, 01:16:23 PM
The Jacquard is on Milwaukee Street, right across from a nice little dive bar called Milwaukee Street Tavern.
Right. It's just that the article was talking about Milwaukee Street Tavern, then referred to you as simply "restaurant manager ____ ____"–but failing to mention the establishment you were actually managing at the time. When I first read it, I mistakenly thought that meant you were GM at Milwaukee Street (and changed jobs a LOT during the last few years). In reality, I assume, they simply interviewed a bunch of you in the area, and then the article didn't even pass through a copy editor before publication.
Sounds about right. When I did the opening, I had hours and hours of press junkets -- Denver Post on down to random Instagram influencers and bloggers. Not surprised they screwed a lot of things up.
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2022, 07:19:33 PM
I just opened my latest bottle of gin: Martin Miller's.
For a citrus lover like me, it's great for drinking neat. The orange zest is bold and unmistakable, but juniper is by no means lacking. (The citrus botanicals are kept separate from the others, and I suppose that attention to detail pays off on my palate.) I haven't yet tried it in a cocktail, so time will tell if its flavor gets lost when mixed. I must say, I'm intrigued to try it in drinks that feature orange-flavored components, which means I might finally get around to making a Flying Dutchman, and I might even switch from Peychaud's to orange bitters in my next G&T.
It's a bit pretentious, considering that the gin is distilled in West Midlands (England) but then gets shipped to Iceland to be diluted with that country's supposedly superior water. But whatever.
(https://www.theginguild.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/martin-millers-gin-bottle.jpg)
Finished this bottle a week or two ago. It's definitely a winner for drinking neat or in a Martini. It also provides good balance in my more-gin-forward Negroni variations. But there were a couple of cocktails in which I thought the juniper got lost in the mix. I think what this means is that, when it comes to gin, I'm not quite the citrus lover I thought. What I really desire more than anything is strong juniper. And apparently other herbal botanicals as well, which kind of surprises me to learn about myself.
This time around, I went for Bombay Dry Gin–a very traditional London dry gin. It has a similar flavor profile to Beefeater 24, which I loved, and it's easy on the pocketbook.
(https://theginisin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Bombay-Dry-Gin-300x555.jpeg)
I remain a beer guy. Liquor gets me into too much trouble.
Quote from: kphoger on December 13, 2022, 06:37:25 PM
Finished this bottle a week or two ago. It's definitely a winner for drinking neat or in a Martini. It also provides good balance in my more-gin-forward Negroni variations. But there were a couple of cocktails in which I thought the juniper got lost in the mix. I think what this means is that, when it comes to gin, I'm not quite the citrus lover I thought. What I really desire more than anything is strong juniper. And apparently other herbal botanicals as well, which kind of surprises me to learn about myself.
This time around, I went for Bombay Dry Gin–a very traditional London dry gin. It has a similar flavor profile to Beefeater 24, which I loved, and it's easy on the pocketbook.
(https://theginisin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Bombay-Dry-Gin-300x555.jpeg)
I'm just not a London dry guy. I need more aromatic botanicals. All I get is juniper in that style. To each their own of course. I forget if we've talked about this. Have you tried an Old Tom gin?
I have gone through like phases over the years. For a while I drank gin martinis, then vodka cranberries, then it was scotch. For about the last eight years I've mostly just drank wine, or margaritas when I have a cocktail.
Now, however, I'm head bartender at work and so when creating new drink recipes, I have had to experiment and try different things.
I definitely like gin and tequila most. And also mezcal. But I like making cocktails with more than one ingredient, like gin and elderflower liqueur and hibiscus tea or tequila, elderflower, lemon and honey.
I never used to really like cognac but I've put together a few specials that are actually quite good.
Like my Remy Martin 1738 Old fashioned with honey syrup, grand marnier and a splash of luxardo cherry juice.
Or the seasonal cide car with apple cider and Cointreau
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 14, 2022, 12:52:10 PM
I forget if we've talked about this. Have you tried an Old Tom gin?
Never have.
Quote from: kphoger on December 15, 2022, 03:25:09 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 14, 2022, 12:52:10 PM
I forget if we've talked about this. Have you tried an Old Tom gin?
Never have.
Ransom is my favorite. Basically it's a barrel aged slightly sweetened gin. It's dellliiiccciiooous.
When I was in South Africa I was turned onto Amarula, a liqueur made with spirit of the marula fruit. It's quite delicious, and it's available here, though a bottle is much more expensive than it was there.
I tried a riff on a Paper Plane last night:
1 part blended whiskey
1 part brandy
2 parts lemon juice
2 parts Aperol
2 parts Cynar
It ended up being too sweet, which makes me think the original Paper Plane would be too sweet also. I'll have to play with the ratios.
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 01:40:31 PM
I tried a riff on a Paper Plane last night:
1 part blended whiskey
1 part brandy
2 parts lemon juice
2 parts Aperol
2 parts Cynar
It ended up being too sweet, which makes me think the original Paper Plane would be too sweet also. I'll have to play with the ratios.
Just glancing, I'd go half part Brandy and 1 part Cynar.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 03:41:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 01:40:31 PM
I tried a riff on a Paper Plane last night:
1 part blended whiskey
1 part brandy
2 parts lemon juice
2 parts Aperol
2 parts Cynar
It ended up being too sweet, which makes me think the original Paper Plane would be too sweet also. I'll have to play with the ratios.
Just glancing, I'd go half part Brandy and 1 part Cynar.
The classic Paper Plane is equal parts bourbon, lemon juice, Aperol, and Amaro Nonino. I subbed out half the whiskey for brandy, and the Amaro Nonino for Cynar.
I'll try your suggestion.
I didn't plan this ahead of time, but I attempted having one cocktail each evening for all twelve days of Christmas. My wife was actually getting a bit concerned, seeing me fix a drink on a daily basis. I told both her and the boys that, if they saw me having more than just one or two drinks a week, to say something. What ended up happening, though, was kind of the opposite of what they were thinking: I got cocktail-ed out for a while, and I didn't even make it all twelve days before stopping.
Quote from: kphoger on January 10, 2023, 09:45:39 PM
I didn't plan this ahead of time, but I attempted having one cocktail each evening for all twelve days of Christmas. My wife was actually getting a bit concerned, seeing me fix a drink on a daily basis. I told both her and the boys that, if they saw me having more than just one or two drinks a week, to say something. What ended up happening, though, was kind of the opposite of what they were thinking: I got cocktail-ed out for a while, and I didn't even make it all twelve days before stopping.
As is probably evident from my alcohol discussions, I drink more than the average American, but think I keep it in check pretty well. I'd be cocktailed out too as I don't really make them at home. Pretty much a wine guy or a spirit neat guy.
That great Chicago product - Malort! ("When you want to unfriend someone in real life")
:nod:
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on January 11, 2023, 11:23:54 AM
That great Chicago product - Malort! ("When you want to unfriend someone in real life")
I'd never heard of it until now.
I see Nora Rose Allen, a Chicago Sun Times reader, wrote in to say it tastes as "if shame and regret were left to ferment before being distilled through an old, sweaty shoe".
And now I'm reading farther down the list of write-ins... Man, these are great!
https://chicago.suntimes.com/entertainment-and-culture/2021/8/25/22641237/what-does-malort-taste-like-chicago-liquor
Here's a great one:
Quote from: Thomas Cairns
It tastes like if you took a baby's soiled diaper after they've eaten a jar of cigarettes soaked in liquid smoke, ring it out and get the juices from the said diaper. Mix the juice with the yoke of a rotting egg and strain it through a dirty jockstrap soaked in liver and onions for no less than one year. Absorb the fluid from the mixture in a high school boy's sock following an August football practice. Bury the sock under the nearest chicken coop overnight. Remove one ounce of fluid with an eyedropper and place it under your tongue. That taste is just a little better than one shot of Malort.
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 11:40:20 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 11, 2023, 11:23:54 AM
That great Chicago product - Malort! ("When you want to unfriend someone in real life")
I'd never heard of it until now.
I see Nora Rose Allen, a Chicago Sun Times reader, wrote in to say it tastes as "if shame and regret were left to ferment before being distilled through an old, sweaty shoe".
And now I'm reading farther down the list of write-ins... Man, these are great!
https://chicago.suntimes.com/entertainment-and-culture/2021/8/25/22641237/what-does-malort-taste-like-chicago-liquor
Here's a great one:
Quote from: Thomas Cairns
It tastes like if you took a baby's soiled diaper after they've eaten a jar of cigarettes soaked in liquid smoke, ring it out and get the juices from the said diaper. Mix the juice with the yoke of a rotting egg and strain it through a dirty jockstrap soaked in liver and onions for no less than one year. Absorb the fluid from the mixture in a high school boy's sock following an August football practice. Bury the sock under the nearest chicken coop overnight. Remove one ounce of fluid with an eyedropper and place it under your tongue. That taste is just a little better than one shot of Malort.
They actually make gift packs of that stuff, too.
:wow:
Mike
Malort is normally the 6th drink in what is about to be a great or terrible night.
I forget when it was, but I recently tried mixing three of my favorite things from the liquor cabinet. I'd never found any recipe for the three of them together, so I hadn't tried it yet, figuring maybe it wouldn't be good. But, I must say, I really enjoyed it.
4 parts gin
2 parts Aperol
1 part Cynar
Quote from: kphoger on January 13, 2023, 01:33:23 PM
I forget when it was, but I recently tried mixing three of my favorite things from the liquor cabinet. I'd never found any recipe for the three of them together, so I hadn't tried it yet, figuring maybe it wouldn't be good. But, I must say, I really enjoyed it.
4 parts gin
2 parts Aperol
1 part Cynar
Not toooooo far away from a Negroni, since Cynar has some sweet vermouth vibes to it.
Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2022, 05:42:28 PM
I've never really cared for a Negroni. I enjoy gin or red vermouth on its own, and I enjoy Campari in various cocktails, but for some reason I don't like all three mixed together like that. But, about a week ago, I had a variation that I enjoyed quite a bit more.
a typical Negroni recipe
1 part – gin
1 part – sweet vermouth
1 part – Campari
my take on a Cornwall Negroni
8 parts – Tanqueray N° 10 gin
4 part – Punt e Mes vermouth
1 part – Campari
1 part – Aperol
a few dashes – Fee Brothers orange bitters
This was substantially less bitter than a traditional Negroni. Because it was 57% gin instead of only 33% gin, the flavor of the gin came through much stronger, above the flavors of the other ingredients, but the other ingredients were by no means missing. The one thing I should have thought of earlier, but didn't until I was already halfway through the cocktail, is that the same size of this drink has 17% more alcohol. Not a huge difference, but still noticeable.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 13, 2023, 01:46:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 13, 2023, 01:33:23 PM
I forget when it was, but I recently tried mixing three of my favorite things from the liquor cabinet. I'd never found any recipe for the three of them together, so I hadn't tried it yet, figuring maybe it wouldn't be good. But, I must say, I really enjoyed it.
4 parts gin
2 parts Aperol
1 part Cynar
Not toooooo far away from a Negroni, since Cynar has some sweet vermouth vibes to it.
Exactly! And, as I've mentioned before, a proper Negroni tastes imbalanced to me, so I always amp up the gin content anyway.
So I kind of miss the restaurant industry, so I picked up bartending two nights a week at a chain high end steak house. I make the drinks to spec as per their recipes, but some of them are absolutely god awful. For the regulars at the bar, I make it properly and they always say it's the best version they've had. I'm not sure who gets these jobs creating cocktails that are terrible.
Management, probably. Who gets to call the shots because they're Management. Who gets to be Management because they're Management.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 13, 2023, 02:48:46 PM
Management, probably. Who gets to call the shots because they're Management. Who gets to be Management because they're Management.
Yeah. Never let a bean counter come up with your cocktail recipes.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 13, 2023, 01:56:29 PMa chain high end steak house
If it's the one that rhymes with The Schmapitol Schmille, I once had dinner there and they served me a Manhattan with a rather long hair in it. Didn't help the taste of the drink, and I hope it wasn't in the corporate-mandated recipe.
Also, I'm sure management monitors how much liquor you use to make sure you're not sliding an excessive amount of drinks to your buddies, but are they also monitoring it to the level of, like, "well, you sold 20 Slippery Nipples and that should have only accounted for one fifth of Colonel Kwik-E-Mart's Kentucky Bourbon, but you used two, what gives?"
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 13, 2023, 02:58:03 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 13, 2023, 02:48:46 PM
Management, probably. Who gets to call the shots because they're Management. Who gets to be Management because they're Management.
Yeah. Never let a bean counter come up with your cocktail recipes.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 13, 2023, 01:56:29 PMa chain high end steak house
If it's the one that rhymes with The Schmapitol Schmille, I once had dinner there and they served me a Manhattan with a rather long hair in it. Didn't help the taste of the drink, and I hope it wasn't in the corporate-mandated recipe.
See, I've been a GM and an F&B Director, so I was the bean counter and the manager, but I still like good drinks. I just charge appropriate prices for them. Not Capitol Grille. I'd just sling Stoli Dolis all day there.
Lore has it that the Negroni came into existence when a certain customer requested the soda water in an Americano be subbed out for gin. Which is to say, it was nobody's "job" to create the drink.
Now, whoever decided it was good enough to serve to others without further improvement... That, I presume, would be bartenders.
Quote from: kphoger on January 13, 2023, 03:09:05 PM
Lore has it that the Negroni came into existence when a certain customer requested the soda water in an Americano be subbed out for gin. Which is to say, it was nobody's "job" to create the drink.
Now, whoever decided it was good enough to serve to others without further improvement... That, I presume, would be bartenders.
I think a Negroni is perfectly balanced for me, assuming you use good vermouth (that actually has flavor) and gin (that isn't only juniper).
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 13, 2023, 03:12:04 PM
I think a Negroni is perfectly balanced for me, assuming you use good vermouth (that actually has flavor) and gin (that isn't only juniper).
Maybe I'll try it again, now that I have vermouth that isn't Punt e Mes.
Just something like Carpano or Cocchi is great for Negronis. Also, if you've never had them with olives (as they're traditionally served), it's surprisingly a great flavor combo.
Maybe I'll try Cocchi next. Right now, I just have good old Martini & Rossi.
By the way, I don't know if I've actually mentioned... I didn't use to care much for a Martini–especially the way my sister and her husband make them, which is 50/50 vodka/gin. Anyway, I've settled on a 4:1 gin:vermouth ratio, with half the vermouth being dry and half being sweet. So it ends up being 8 parts gin, 1 part sweet vermouth, 1 part dry vermouth. Even better with a small splash of Aperol.
Quote from: kphoger on January 13, 2023, 03:50:36 PMI didn't use to care much for a Martini
I still don't, that's why I drink Manhattans.
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 13, 2023, 03:56:53 PM
that's why I drink Manhattans.
I stayed away from those for a while because I've never liked whiskey. Then I bought a cheap bottle of Jameson blended whiskey and tried a Manhattan. And I liked it!
Great, I thought,
maybe I like whiskey now. So then I tried it straight. Nope!
Not a Martini guy either, which is 60% of what my bar makes now with the nouveau rich thinking they are the classiest drink one can order. kphoger, I bet you'd like a Vesper despite you not liking how your family made their Martinis.
I used to love Jamo and then I tried good Irish whiskies and now I can't stand the stuff sadly. I'm more of a rye guy for my domestic whiskeys.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 13, 2023, 04:07:25 PM
Not a Martini guy either, which is 60% of what my bar makes now with the nouveau rich thinking they are the classiest drink one can order.
Your job now is to come up with two or three signature twists on a classic Martini. Start with lesser-known products you can "splash" in.
Quote from: kphoger on January 13, 2023, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 13, 2023, 04:07:25 PM
Not a Martini guy either, which is 60% of what my bar makes now with the nouveau rich thinking they are the classiest drink one can order.
Your job now is to come up with two or three signature twists on a classic Martini. Start with lesser-known products you can "splash" in.
Not necessarily obscure, but...
- Chareau
- Green Chartreuse
- Olive Oil
Quote from: kphoger on January 13, 2023, 05:09:58 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 13, 2023, 04:28:52 PM
Olive Oil
Shaken or stirred?
Shaking helps to disperse it a bit better. A better option is to use spherification (http://www.kylescholz.com/wp/spherification-and-alchohol/) so they don't break apart and you have little olive oil caviar.
Suggestions I'm seeing online say to prepare at least part of the drink the day before, then freeze it and remove the olive oil solids.
The discussion about Malort reminded me of this tweet that I saw about a hundred times on various social media last month.
https://twitter.com/waitressboner/status/1402152044740464642
There was this Ukrainian guy in my MBA cohort, and someone brought a bottle of Malort to our graduation party, and the dude LOVED it. Damn near killed the bottle by himself.
But seriously, it tastes like earwax and lime rinds.
Quote from: kphoger on January 13, 2023, 05:41:12 PM
Suggestions I'm seeing online say to prepare at least part of the drink the day before, then freeze it and remove the olive oil solids.
Yeah. That's a technique called fat washing. We did a duck fat washed bourbon in a cocktail at the hotel.
The gin I purchased most recently is this one, because the liquor store was out of the one I was intending to buy. It's quite unlike my usual picks, especially because it has a bit of a musty flavor to it. The reviewer from whose site I grabbed the image describes it as being like 'the aroma of damp maple leaves after a summer rain', and I can definitely see where he's coming from.
It's been a struggle to find a drink it works well in. My usual citrus-forward drinks don't play nicely with the musty character of this gin. But it worked pretty well in Negroni (which, by the way, Chris, is indeed better with a more normal vermouth than Punt e Mes). And where I found it actually shines is in a martini, which surprised me for some reason. The other day, I tried a second go-around with it in a gin and tonic, but this time I muddled some cucumber in the gin for a while and added several dashes of Peychaud's bitters, and it was better with those slight changes.
I probably won't buy it again, but it has been an interesting deviation from my usual.
(https://theginisin.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Leopolds-Gin-300x710.jpg.webp)
Quote from: kphoger on March 16, 2023, 02:55:45 PM
The gin I purchased most recently is this one, because the liquor store was out of the one I was intending to buy. It's quite unlike my usual picks, especially because it has a bit of a musty flavor to it. The reviewer from whose site I grabbed the image describes it as being like 'the aroma of damp maple leaves after a summer rain', and I can definitely see where he's coming from.
It's been a struggle to find a drink it works well in. My usual citrus-forward drinks don't play nicely with the musty character of this gin. But it worked pretty well in Negroni (which, by the way, Chris, is indeed better with a more normal vermouth than Punt e Mes). And where I found it actually shines is in a martini, which surprised me for some reason. The other day, I tried a second go-around with it in a gin and tonic, but this time I muddled some cucumber in the gin for a while and added several dashes of Peychaud's bitters, and it was better with those slight changes.
I probably won't buy it again, but it has been an interesting deviation from my usual.
(https://theginisin.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Leopolds-Gin-300x710.jpg.webp)
Leopold's also makes a Summer Gin which is vvveeerrrrryyy citrus forward as well. Basically Todd Leopold (nice guy) made a gin especially for his mom who loves lemon. They they liked it so well that they sell it seasonally.
I was digging around in my home office yesterday trying to find something. While searching, I stumbled across the following drink recipe instructions my late father sent me in 1994. These date back to his law school days (1968—71). My relatives all have fond memories of when my dad made these after my grandmother's funeral and got everyone severely drunk, but nobody had the recipe. My cousin asked me about it around a year ago and I said I knew I had it, but I couldn't find it, and she said, "I figured you may be the only person who had that information stored somewhere!!" So I found it yesterday by accident and sent it to her, and her comment about my being the only person to have the information is what prompts me to post it here. This probably sounds disgusting, but if you follow the instructions it will taste very good–too good, actually, as you can seriously mess yourself up drinking these. Note that, as I said, this recipe dates back over 50 years, so when my father says "real beer," he doesn't mean IPA or porter or any of the craft brews you see on the market today. He means mass-market ordinary beer like Heineken or Coors, and I assume back in his law school days he more likely used something like Stroh's. The last time I remember him making these, I think he used Heineken.
All parenthetical comments, and the misspelling of "crushed," are as my father wrote it 29 years ago. The name of the drink apparently comes from the nickname of a law school classmate of his.
Step #11 is very important and is not a joke.
QuoteSTUDLY SOURS
1. One can frozen pink lemonade mix
2. Pour this into a blender
3. Fill same lemonade can with bourbon, blended american whiskey, or scotch (the second is best–Seagram's 7 works fine, but Calvert is just as good. Do not use any very good whiskey: no Jack Daniels or Crown Royal or Glenlivet. Also do not use total smeck or you will taste it twice–on way down and then again on way up and neither time will be pleasant)
4. Fill same lemonade can 1/4 way with same as #3.
5. (Obviously both full and 1/4 lemonade can get poured into blender)
6. Fill lemonade can with beer: real beer, not junk light beer (drink maker gets to finish what is left in each can as he/she makes the studlies)
7. Pour in juice from a jar maraschino cherries (not all the juice, just enough so you know it went in–1/4 to 1/3 of juice in the jar)
8. Turn on blender: slowly at first because beer will fizz and, as this is all blending, add cruched ice or cubes if your blender will crush them.
9. Continue blending at various speeds until all ice is crushed and you have a smooth drink.
10. Pour into old fashioned glasses (a particular style glass, not just an old fart's glass) filled with ice cubes and one or two maraschino cherries.
11. Try not to drink too many or you will throw up.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 13, 2023, 04:07:25 PM
Not a Martini guy either, which is 60% of what my bar makes now with the nouveau rich thinking they are the classiest drink one can order. kphoger, I bet you'd like a Vesper despite you not liking how your family made their Martinis.
My take on a Rolls Royce, definitely better than a Martini:
6 parts gin (still using Drumshanbo, and still loving it)
2 parts dry vermouth
2 parts sweet vermouth
1 part Bénédictine
dark bitters, such as coffee or chocolate flavor
You ever done a Martínez?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 05, 2023, 06:43:14 PM
You ever done a Martínez?
This post made me think of the 2 Live Crew track "Fuck Martinez." I decided not to link the recording from YouTube because of the problems it might cause if someone plays it in a public place—as the track's name implies, it has a bit of profanity. One of my roommates during my second and third year of college had that album on cassette tape and we all, being the mature college kids* we were, thought it was hilarious, which now makes me cringe (as does the Guns N Roses track "Get in the Ring," which is another one we thought was hilarious back then).
*Of course, we were all over 18, so that means we were not kids but rather were mature adults (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32280.msg2874152#msg2874152), right? Right?
My brothers and sisters have been drinking a lot of Old Fashioneds lately, and I like them on occasion as well. Without scrolling back, does anybody have any good Old Fashioned recipes, or can direct me to which page of this thread to find one?
Thanks! Trying desperately to broaden my horizons away from just Captain and Coke or Beam and Pepsi.
The original old fashioned is just 2 oz. of spirit (Doesn't just have to be whiskey. Mezcal makes a great old fashioned.), 0.5 oz. of simple syrup, and 2-3 dashes of angostura bitters. Anything more than that, to me, hides the spirit and makes it too sweet.
If I'm feeling lazy, some days I just have a sweet vermouth & soda. Surprisingly good!
Quote from: kphoger on October 16, 2023, 02:06:59 PM
If I'm feeling lazy, some days I just have a sweet vermouth & soda. Surprisingly good!
Once of my favorite simple ones is a Porto Tonic which is just white port and tonic. Refreshing.
A cocktail I've been enjoying recently is a variant on the Brooklyn. I use:
2 oz bourbon
1 oz dry vermouth
1/4 oz cherry liqueur
3 oz cherry 7-up
Quote from: wriddle082 on October 06, 2023, 09:22:48 AM
My brothers and sisters have been drinking a lot of Old Fashioneds lately, and I like them on occasion as well. Without scrolling back, does anybody have any good Old Fashioned recipes, or can direct me to which page of this thread to find one?
(https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/2906bc6c-985d-44d9-8d0a-0c43c0331cad/ols/Front%20grey%20shirt.jpg)
I picked up a bottle of this rum yesterday, but I haven't opened it yet. Anyone tried it?
(https://images.personalwine.com/app/public/spree/products/6660/large/LIQ-RUM-PROBITAS.png)
Never seen it.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 16, 2023, 05:20:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 16, 2023, 02:06:59 PM
If I'm feeling lazy, some days I just have a sweet vermouth & soda. Surprisingly good!
Once of my favorite simple ones is a Porto Tonic which is just white port and tonic. Refreshing.
Have you tried a Bénédictine and tonic? That's now become one of my lazy-staples.
I don't remember the last time I tasted straight Benedictine ( or B&B). Definitely never had with tonic.