Nevada

[kphoger]

Every other year when I visit Jalisco I get a refreshing reminder on what poor driving behavior and poor driving behaviors actually look like.  At least I feel comfortable in saying that nowhere in the United States is overall road experience as bad as it seems to be typically assumed.

Depends what you're looking at.  Slower traffic tends to keep right in Mexico, more than in many US states.  Sharing the road with pedestrians and bicycles is more ingrained in Mexican driving than in US driving.

[Plutonic Panda]

I've yet to venture to the northeast(and a few other regions but I've heard the NE is notorious) so maybe my opinions will change but so far oddly enough Dallas seems like it has the fastest and most aggressive drivers I've seen. I guess drivers in Vegas and LA align more with my style of driving minus a few habits.

[Max Rockatansky]

Every other year when I visit Jalisco I get a refreshing reminder on what poor driving behavior and poor driving behaviors actually look like.  At least I feel comfortable in saying that nowhere in the United States is overall road experience as bad as it seems to be typically assumed.

Depends what you're looking at.  Slower traffic tends to keep right in Mexico, more than in many US states.  Sharing the road with pedestrians and bicycles is more ingrained in Mexican driving than in US driving.

I'm thinking of Autopista driving behavior versus freeway driving this time around.  The truckers by far seem to be the most skilled drivers on the Autopistas by a considerable margin.  The amount of aggression and high speed by passenger vehicles around Guadalajara is beyond what is typically seen state side.

[kphoger]

Every other year when I visit Jalisco I get a refreshing reminder on what poor driving behavior and poor driving behaviors actually look like.  At least I feel comfortable in saying that nowhere in the United States is overall road experience as bad as it seems to be typically assumed.

Depends what you're looking at.  Slower traffic tends to keep right in Mexico, more than in many US states.  Sharing the road with pedestrians and bicycles is more ingrained in Mexican driving than in US driving.

I'm thinking of Autopista driving behavior versus freeway driving this time around.  The truckers by far seem to be the most skilled drivers on the Autopistas by a considerable margin.  The amount of aggression and high speed by passenger vehicles around Guadalajara is beyond what is typically seen state side.

Mexican driving is a weird combination (from my perspective) of aggressive and easy-going.

They'll pass you on the right at high speed, or to the left of road construction barrels in the closed-off lane, or with oncoming traffic.  They'll ride your bumper so close you couldn't fit a shoebox between the two cars.  Yep, totally get that.

But if you do the same stuff around them, they won't harbor any bad feelings toward you.  They'll just move out of your way or slow down, if need be, and go on about their day.  They'll also stop on a dime at an intersection in town if you get there a half-second before they do, sometimes even if you're the one with a yield sign.

I've hardly ever heard a driver in Mexico blare his horn in anger or annoyance.  I was once driving into Saltillo from the northeast, on a multi-lane thoroughfare doing 50 or 60 mph, with another driver following me who was unfamiliar with the area.  A bus came plunging into traffic from the right, intending to take an upcoming left exit.  First thought:  what an aggressive bus driver, typical Mexico.  I swerved around the bus on the left, got ahead of it, then darted back onto the main road.  The other driver, thinking I intended to take that left exit, followed me and ended up getting pinned on the left side of the bus.  He slammed on the brakes so hard that I could hear his tires squeal, and he came to a dead stop.  Then he pulled out into the 50-60 mph traffic from a standstill and caught up to me (I had slowed down).  It occurred to me only later:  nobody on that whole road had honked their horn.  They all just took it in stride, made room for the craziness, and kept driving like it was all completely normal.  That is also "typical Mexico".

I've come to reconcile these two extremes by thinking of them as just not caring all that much about the rules.  They'll drive however they need or want to, and they're perfectly happy to let you drive however you need or want to as well.

[Max Rockatansky]

To be clear, I do enjoy driving down in Mexico when we visit family.  My big takeaway is not to assume that all the traffic rules and signs will be followed to a tee.  I tend to find that kind of driving more engaging than plodding down a modern freeway. 

Off freeway you get a lot of really wildly different variances in surface quality.  Cobblestone just isn't a surface frequently encountered state side very often.  In town driving usually requires a consider amount more of attentiveness given how narrow roads tend to be. 

[kphoger]

In town driving usually requires a consider amount more of attentiveness given how narrow roads tend to be. 

Missing manhole covers, too.

[DenverBrian]

I assume this is a prerequisite for building the new airport they're planning between Jean & Primm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Nevada_Supplemental_Airport

I did not know about that, that probably is the reason they're making it so wide

Also, pretty awesome that they're building a new airport, that's not something that happens often, I think the last one in this country was Denver in 1995.

I assume this is a prerequisite for building the new airport they're planning between Jean & Primm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Nevada_Supplemental_Airport

I did not know about that, that probably is the reason they're making it so wide

Also, pretty awesome that they're building a new airport, that's not something that happens often, I think the last one in this country was Denver in 1995.

Austin was four years later, in 1999. And a small new airport in Williston, ND opened in 2019, replacing its old one.

[Sub-Urbanite]

I assume this is a prerequisite for building the new airport they're planning between Jean & Primm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Nevada_Supplemental_Airport

I did not know about that, that probably is the reason they're making it so wide

Also, pretty awesome that they're building a new airport, that's not something that happens often, I think the last one in this country was Denver in 1995.

I assume this is a prerequisite for building the new airport they're planning between Jean & Primm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Nevada_Supplemental_Airport

I did not know about that, that probably is the reason they're making it so wide

Also, pretty awesome that they're building a new airport, that's not something that happens often, I think the last one in this country was Denver in 1995.

Austin was four years later, in 1999. And a small new airport in Williston, ND opened in 2019, replacing its old one.

St. George, Utah, built a fairly large new airport 120 miles up the road from LAS.

I'm still skeptical Ivanpah Airport will ever get built after 25 years of discussions. That's a lot of money to spend tearing up the desert and laying down concrete for an airport that travelers are not going to want to use, and satellite airports have a terrible track record of success without some sort of perimeter rule or other legislation to force them to be used.

[cl94]

The only way SNSA will see any substantial use is if the airport authority puts major restrictions on LAS (a la DCA and DAL). Or, well, if they pull a Denver and close/redevelop current LAS. 30 miles from the strip is a long distance and new outlying airports in other cities have failed (Mirabel being the one that immediately comes to mind).

Honestly, the biggest variables at play here are the fate of Spirit and the success of Brightline West. If Spirit Airlines goes under soon (as may happen), there goes a major tenant of LAS and you'd gain a dozen gates, which may push out when capacity is reached. Similarly, the largest source of passengers (by far) is SoCal, so if Brightline West makes a dent in that number, that reduces the number of slots needed for I-15 puddle jumps.

[Plutonic Panda]

The only way SNSA will see any substantial use is if the airport authority puts major restrictions on LAS (a la DCA and DAL). Or, well, if they pull a Denver and close/redevelop current LAS. 30 miles from the strip is a long distance and new outlying airports in other cities have failed (Mirabel being the one that immediately comes to mind).

Honestly, the biggest variables at play here are the fate of Spirit and the success of Brightline West. If Spirit Airlines goes under soon (as may happen), there goes a major tenant of LAS and you'd gain a dozen gates, which may push out when capacity is reached. Similarly, the largest source of passengers (by far) is SoCal, so if Brightline West makes a dent in that number, that reduces the number of slots needed for I-15 puddle jumps.

This is actually my first time hearing of this proposed airport. Will it be along the bright west alignment?

[Scott5114]

The only way SNSA will see any substantial use is if the airport authority puts major restrictions on LAS (a la DCA and DAL). Or, well, if they pull a Denver and close/redevelop current LAS. 30 miles from the strip is a long distance and new outlying airports in other cities have failed (Mirabel being the one that immediately comes to mind).

Honestly, the biggest variables at play here are the fate of Spirit and the success of Brightline West. If Spirit Airlines goes under soon (as may happen), there goes a major tenant of LAS and you'd gain a dozen gates, which may push out when capacity is reached. Similarly, the largest source of passengers (by far) is SoCal, so if Brightline West makes a dent in that number, that reduces the number of slots needed for I-15 puddle jumps.

This is actually my first time hearing of this proposed airport. Will it be along the bright west alignment?

Probably. The Ivanpah Valley is the one Primm is in, so assuming Brightline stays roughly in the I-15 corridor, it will go right by it. Obviously, there's not any plans for any of this drawn up with the accuracy to say for sure that the terminal is such and such distance from the rail line.

[kernals12]

I assume this is a prerequisite for building the new airport they're planning between Jean & Primm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Nevada_Supplemental_Airport

I did not know about that, that probably is the reason they're making it so wide

Also, pretty awesome that they're building a new airport, that's not something that happens often, I think the last one in this country was Denver in 1995.

I assume this is a prerequisite for building the new airport they're planning between Jean & Primm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Nevada_Supplemental_Airport

I did not know about that, that probably is the reason they're making it so wide

Also, pretty awesome that they're building a new airport, that's not something that happens often, I think the last one in this country was Denver in 1995.

Austin was four years later, in 1999. And a small new airport in Williston, ND opened in 2019, replacing its old one.

The point still stands, it's very uncommon.

[US 395]

The only way SNSA will see any substantial use is if the airport authority puts major restrictions on LAS (a la DCA and DAL). Or, well, if they pull a Denver and close/redevelop current LAS. 30 miles from the strip is a long distance and new outlying airports in other cities have failed (Mirabel being the one that immediately comes to mind).

Honestly, the biggest variables at play here are the fate of Spirit and the success of Brightline West. If Spirit Airlines goes under soon (as may happen), there goes a major tenant of LAS and you'd gain a dozen gates, which may push out when capacity is reached. Similarly, the largest source of passengers (by far) is SoCal, so if Brightline West makes a dent in that number, that reduces the number of slots needed for I-15 puddle jumps.

I'd say the latter would be necessary to give it use. I don't believe Las Vegas needs two fullblown airports. It'd be better for the Ivanpah Valley Airport to be built out with plenty of room for expansion. The distance from the Strip and the Las Vegas Valley does make for some long travel times, especially on the weekends.

[US 395]

In Vegas in particular people are more relaxed and just go with the flow.

Are you kidding? Las Vegas drivers in my experience are extremely erratic and quite aggressive. I theorize it's because most aren't originally from Sin City (be they tourists or locals) and seem to have brought the WORST driving habits from their original locales with them to southern Nevada. Of course your experience may vary.

I agree. I feel there are better drivers in Mumbai than there are in Las Vegas. It's literally the Wild Wild West of driving. I feel better driving in Los Angeles than I do in Vegas and that's saying something.

[roadfro]

The only way SNSA will see any substantial use is if the airport authority puts major restrictions on LAS (a la DCA and DAL). Or, well, if they pull a Denver and close/redevelop current LAS. 30 miles from the strip is a long distance and new outlying airports in other cities have failed (Mirabel being the one that immediately comes to mind).

Honestly, the biggest variables at play here are the fate of Spirit and the success of Brightline West. If Spirit Airlines goes under soon (as may happen), there goes a major tenant of LAS and you'd gain a dozen gates, which may push out when capacity is reached. Similarly, the largest source of passengers (by far) is SoCal, so if Brightline West makes a dent in that number, that reduces the number of slots needed for I-15 puddle jumps.

I'd say the latter would be necessary to give it use. I don't believe Las Vegas needs two fullblown airports. It'd be better for the Ivanpah Valley Airport to be built out with plenty of room for expansion. The distance from the Strip and the Las Vegas Valley does make for some long travel times, especially on the weekends.

The projections 20+ years ago was that McCarran was going to reach capacity (by now, IIRC) and that additional airport was going to be needed to handle the demand. We've had a recession and pandemic since then, which staved off that growth a couple times. In the meantime, McCarran built out the D gates and Terminal 3/E gates, but there's not much more way to get additional capacity out of the existing facilities at Harry Reid. You could maybe shift more of the general aviation and charter flights out to Henderson or North Las Vegas to get some arrival/departure slots, but there's also not much more space for commercial aviation. If Spirit were to go under, other carriers at the airport will quickly grab up the vacated gate spaces.

So that goes back to Ivanpah for additional capacity. I could potentially see some of the budget carriers being enticed out there first. If Brightline were to stop at that airport as well, and have some kind of airport jumper fare deal between the airport and their main Vegas train station, then it may make the 20-ish mile trip south of the existing airport a bit more feasible for some passenger traffic.

[Scott5114]

The only thing I've noticed in Las Vegas being notably worse than in Oklahoma is that here people are far more willing to run red lights. (I saw a post on Reddit that said you can tell who is a tourist and who is a local because the tourists hit the gas when the light turns green whereas the locals give it about three seconds before going.) I mostly stay on the west side, though; any really crazy stuff probably happens on the east side.

The freeways seem to run a bit faster and people are more willing to take risky moves, but I think the latter is every large city. And of course, the Strip is the Strip, but that's not really somewhere you go every day if you live here (unless that's where you work), so I'm not counting it.

[pderocco]

So that goes back to Ivanpah for additional capacity. I could potentially see some of the budget carriers being enticed out there first. If Brightline were to stop at that airport as well, and have some kind of airport jumper fare deal between the airport and their main Vegas train station, then it may make the 20-ish mile trip south of the existing airport a bit more feasible for some passenger traffic.

That's over 30 miles. The airport would dry up and blow away without frequent Brightline service. But it could also take a lot of business away from Brightline between the LA and SBD area and Ivanpah.

[cl94]

So that goes back to Ivanpah for additional capacity. I could potentially see some of the budget carriers being enticed out there first. If Brightline were to stop at that airport as well, and have some kind of airport jumper fare deal between the airport and their main Vegas train station, then it may make the 20-ish mile trip south of the existing airport a bit more feasible for some passenger traffic.

That's over 30 miles. The airport would dry up and blow away without frequent Brightline service. But it could also take a lot of business away from Brightline between the LA and SBD area and Ivanpah.

Brightline isn't going after the Spirit/Allegiant crowd with their proposed fares, so there would be minimal cannibalization. You could relegate the ULCCs to Ivanpah and set up a cheap rail shuttle to the strip.

[Plutonic Panda]

In Vegas in particular people are more relaxed and just go with the flow.

Are you kidding? Las Vegas drivers in my experience are extremely erratic and quite aggressive. I theorize it's because most aren't originally from Sin City (be they tourists or locals) and seem to have brought the WORST driving habits from their original locales with them to southern Nevada. Of course your experience may vary.

I agree. I feel there are better drivers in Mumbai than there are in Las Vegas. It's literally the Wild Wild West of driving. I feel better driving in Los Angeles than I do in Vegas and that's saying something.

You think there are better drivers in Mumbai than Las Vegas?

I drive around Vegas all the time. Yeah people speed and cut in and out of traffic. It's really no different than it is here in LA. The strip is pretty chaotic. But then again, so is the sunset strip here in LA or technically West Hollywood. So I stand by my comments people in Vegas Drive, pretty relaxed and just kind of in their own zone rather than worried about how other people are driving. It's more my style. Oklahoma people will get in front of you and cut you off just to go slow and prevent you from passing them because they have this I own the lane mentality.

They will especially do that on merges even an areas where the state is now encouraging zipper merging.

[roadfro]

So that goes back to Ivanpah for additional capacity. I could potentially see some of the budget carriers being enticed out there first. If Brightline were to stop at that airport as well, and have some kind of airport jumper fare deal between the airport and their main Vegas train station, then it may make the 20-ish mile trip south of the existing airport a bit more feasible for some passenger traffic.

That's over 30 miles. The airport would dry up and blow away without frequent Brightline service. But it could also take a lot of business away from Brightline between the LA and SBD area and Ivanpah.

It's about 20 miles driving distance from LAS Terminal 1 to the center of Ivanpah Valley off I-15, according to Google Maps. I don't know the exact location of the proposed airport, so maybe 20 was a low estimate--but 30 miles from LAS is almost out to Primm, and the airport wasn't going to be that far south. 

Considering how some people drive 20+ miles within the Las Vegas Valley just to get to work each day, or to get to the current airport from their home, I doubt that extra length would cause the new airport to wither away without Brightline.

Brightline isn't going after the Spirit/Allegiant crowd with their proposed fares, so there would be minimal cannibalization. You could relegate the ULCCs to Ivanpah and set up a cheap rail shuttle to the strip.

That's what I'm thinking. A cheap rail service via Brighline trackage from the new airport to Brightline's proposed south strip terminal location would help provide some connectivity. I think their proposed terminal location isn't all that far from Harry Reid or the RTC's South Strip Transfer Terminal, so the RTC transit connections should also be fairly easy to make for locals.

[DenverBrian]

This has creepy parallels to the Mid America Airport outside of St. Louis. A gleaming new facility that attracted...exactly one airline, Allegiant. No one else goes there.

[pderocco]

This has creepy parallels to the Mid America Airport outside of St. Louis. A gleaming new facility that attracted...exactly one airline, Allegiant. No one else goes there.

I pledge Allegiant to the flag of the United States of Mid America.

[Scott5114]

people in Vegas Drive

Vegas Drive has people in it??

[Plutonic Panda]

people in Vegas Drive

Vegas Drive has people in it??

On a side note, I loved terribles. Vegas being one of my favorite cities always reminds me of me getting close to Vegas when I see a terribles. Hope someone can find a way to reopen their casino. I'm not sure if that'll happen though.

[Sub-Urbanite]

Considering how some people drive 20+ miles within the Las Vegas Valley just to get to work each day, or to get to the current airport from their home, I doubt that extra length would cause the new airport to wither away without Brightline.

The difference between commuting to work and going to the airport is vast. You can leave your car at work. Leaving your car at the airport requires both money and trust that the car will be safe while it's there. A lot of people take a taxi, or ask friends or family to drive them to the airport. There's a big difference between "Can you drive me 25 miles on the beltway to Harry Reid" vs. "Can you drive me 50 miles to Primm?"