replace stop signs with yield signs

Started by Stephane Dumas, April 21, 2010, 05:18:54 PM

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Stephane Dumas

from CNN http://us.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/16/lauder.new.road.sign/index.html

some suggest to replace stop signs with yield signs at some intersections


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Alex P. Dent

mightyace

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roadfro

The notion of replacing stop signs with yield signs is actually a good one, in limited circumstances. There are many cases where the use of stop signs is largely unwarranted, and yield control would be much more preferable.

As discussed in the "Take Turns sign" thread, Lauder's Take Turns sign is far too ambiguous in message and design to be implemented on any street. Reevaluating the need for all-way stops and reducing some intersections to two-way stop or yield control (or even all-way yield) would really be a better course of action that can be achieved with current signs with well-understood meanings.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Bryant5493

Installing mini-roundabouts like those in the U.K., I think, would help alleviate traffic stress, in certain low-volume areas.


Be well,

Bryant
Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

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Scott5114

Quote from: roadfro on April 21, 2010, 08:53:18 PM
Reevaluating the need for all-way stops and reducing some intersections to two-way stop or yield control (or even all-way yield)...

You can't have an all-way yield. The yield sign (which I think, based off the drivers around me, needs a serious public education program, as too many people appear to be ignorant as to its meaning) means "allow the other drivers present at this intersection to proceed before you". If all directions are posted with yield, you would have a stalemate. It would be functionally equivalent to having no signage at the intersection: priority to the right.
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roadfro

^ It looks like you're right, Scott. I definitely don't remember reading that restriction in the MUTCD, and seem to have a foggy recollection of an all-way yield before (not at a roundabout). Oh well...

In any event, the point still stands that two-way stop/yield control, or possibly even no controls at all (depending on conditions), would be preferable to the proposed ambiguous sign design.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

agentsteel53

anything to get rid of four-way stops.  Any town that puts multiple consecutive four-ways on the main through route needs to be severely whapped.  :pan:

four-ways on side-street grids can be replaced by two-ways - alternating polarity (north-south or east-west gets priority) at every intersection, if needed.
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Bickendan

^How it's done in Inner NE and SE Portland.

Mergingtraffic

I have almost gotten into many accidents because of Yield signs.  People who have a Yield sign tend to think "hurry up to beat the other driver."  Very rairly to people yield.  They think they don't have to stop.

That is why I hate roundabouts because the involve yeild signs and that people don't yield and just come out into traffic.
I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
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Bryant5493

^^ That happens all of the time to me. There are two intersections with yield signs: both are on Camp Creek Parkway near the Airport. I've nearly been run over by MARTA buses, cars, trucks, minivans, and heavy trucks.


Be well,

Bryant
Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

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mightyace

I'm not sure it would make a difference around here as most TN drivers treat stop signs as yield signs.  I once had my car rear ended because I actually stopped at a stop sign!

But, then again, they treat yield signs as if they didn't exist.  Far too many drivers on the yielding route expect you to get out of their way.
My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mightyace

I'm out of this F***KING PLACE!

vdeane

As far as I'm concerned people like that shouldn't be allowed to drive.  If someone ignores yield and stop signs like that, IMO they should lose their license with no chance to get it back.  If you can't follow the rules of the road, you have no right to drive.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Truvelo

I'd like to add some comments following my experiences of driving in the US.

Four way stops - where I've encountered these it seems to be general practice to move off in the order that you arrive with hardly any pushing and shoving to pull away before the other guy. The ones in the middle of nowhere on major roads are unnecessary though so I'd like to see these replaced with yield signs on the lesser road.

Yield signs - there are plenty of intersections where there is good enough visibility to replace stop signs with yield. In the UK we only have stop signs where visibility is seriously reduced.

Mini roundabouts - I don't remember ever seeing one in the US. The advantage over four way stops is that there's no need to come to a stop if your route isn't blocked by conflicting traffic. In the UK they are now very common and used in the right places like on suburban streets they can help traffic emerge from a side road which would otherwise have to wait until there's a break in the traffic on the major road. Unfortunately many mini roundabouts are being installed as a traffic calming measure and this sort of use doesn't appeal to me.
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florida

Quote from: Truvelo on April 23, 2010, 12:02:55 PM
Mini roundabouts - I don't remember ever seeing one in the US. The advantage over four way stops is that there's no need to come to a stop if your route isn't blocked by conflicting traffic. In the UK they are now very common and used in the right places like on suburban streets they can help traffic emerge from a side road which would otherwise have to wait until there's a break in the traffic on the major road. Unfortunately many mini roundabouts are being installed as a traffic calming measure and this sort of use doesn't appeal to me.


Is this what you mean by a mini roundabout?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=orlando,+fl&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=22.92819,52.207031&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Orlando,+Orange,+Florida&ll=28.551298,-81.372707&spn=0,0.019205&z=16&layer=c&cbll=28.551199,-81.372711&panoid=wfcznY2MwxCRRkbFnMIOOg&cbp=12,184.75,,0,-2.44
So many roads...so little time.

roadfro

^ That would be a mini roundabout, yes.

Mini roundabouts are growing in the number of U.S. applications, just like regular roundabouts. My experience has been that mini roundabouts are not considered so much for traffic control in terms of right-of-way and sight distance, but more for instances of traffic calming in neighborhoods (especially in locations where cut-through traffic and/or stop sign violations are more frequent). There are definitely advantages and drawbacks to this approach, but I find I don't mind mini roundabouts that much when used as a traffic calming on a residential street...now on more major streets, I start to take issue with them.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Bickendan

They're all over the place in Portland. The arteries don't get them, though, just the local streets in Inner NE and SE. The full on roundabout is at Coe Circle at NE Glisan and 39th Ave -- excuse me, C├ęsar Chavez Blvd.

I'm always amused by people that hate them but tolerate the speed bumps. For me, it's well the other way around.

Truvelo

The example that florida linked to isn't what we call a mini roundabout. A mini roundabout is where the central island consists solely of paint rather than a kerbed island. This is a true mini roundabout. Maybe in the US a mini roundabout is just a smaller version of a regular roundabout?
Speed limits limit life

english si

UK mini roundabouts are pretty much just 3/4 way yields, with a give-way to right* thing (like on any other roundabout) shown by some paint, and perhaps a raised (but drivable over) island (example of raised mini roundabout). The paint just suggests "roundabout rules apply".

Nothing wrong with using small roundabouts like this though! Perhaps a bit expensive for many four-way stops though.

Don't even have to put paint in a circle on the road - have Yield signs, with a "TO LEFT" plate replacing the Stop sign and "4-WAY" plate.

*note, in the US it'll be give-way to left.

mightyace

I think here in the states, you'd better put something other than paint in the middle for a mini-roundabout as many people would ignore it, especially late at night or other times when there is little or no traffic.
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I'm out of this F***KING PLACE!

hm insulators

Quote from: Truvelo on April 23, 2010, 12:02:55 PM
I'd like to add some comments following my experiences of driving in the US.


Mini roundabouts - I don't remember ever seeing one in the US. The advantage over four way stops is that there's no need to come to a stop if your route isn't blocked by conflicting traffic. In the UK they are now very common and used in the right places like on suburban streets they can help traffic emerge from a side road which would otherwise have to wait until there's a break in the traffic on the major road. Unfortunately many mini roundabouts are being installed as a traffic calming measure and this sort of use doesn't appeal to me.

There's a mini-roundabout just a few blocks from my apartment, on Maryland Avenue at 3rd Street. Next time you come see my insulators, I'll have to show it to you.

There's another one in Glendale, Arizona that I frequently use on the way to Mother's house. When I go to see Mother, I frequently have lunch at a Mexican restaurant in Glendale and use this roundabout as a way around a busy railroad crossing.
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At what age do you tell a highway that it's been adopted?

roadfro

Quote from: Truvelo on April 24, 2010, 12:07:48 PM
The example that florida linked to isn't what we call a mini roundabout. A mini roundabout is where the central island consists solely of paint rather than a kerbed island. This is a true mini roundabout. Maybe in the US a mini roundabout is just a smaller version of a regular roundabout?

In the US, a mini roundabout almost always has some kind of obstruction in the center. If paint alone were used to establish the roundabout, I guarantee the majority of drivers would drive right over the painted "island".

Typically, a mini roundabout is retrofitted into an existing intersection with no major modifications to existing sidewalks, curbs and gutters. There may be some modification in the street (by way of a choker or bulb-out) to force more deflection in the travel path to further reduce entry speeds, especially if the approach is on the top end of a T-intersection.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

florida

Quote from: roadfro on April 26, 2010, 07:33:56 AM
Quote from: Truvelo on April 24, 2010, 12:07:48 PM
The example that florida linked to isn't what we call a mini roundabout. A mini roundabout is where the central island consists solely of paint rather than a kerbed island. This is a true mini roundabout. Maybe in the US a mini roundabout is just a smaller version of a regular roundabout?

In the US, a mini roundabout almost always has some kind of obstruction in the center. If paint alone were used to establish the roundabout, I guarantee the majority of drivers would drive right over the painted "island".

Typically, a mini roundabout is retrofitted into an existing intersection with no major modifications to existing sidewalks, curbs and gutters. There may be some modification in the street (by way of a choker or bulb-out) to force more deflection in the travel path to further reduce entry speeds, especially if the approach is on the top end of a T-intersection.

Also, the previous one I linked is in the middle of a Historic District, so it had to be all pretty-fied up. Here is another variation in Belle Isle on a side street which could be what you're trying to explain with the T-intersection, Roadfro.

But yes, we Americans love to drive over the lines, no matter what. There are no rules, especially down here.
So many roads...so little time.

roadfro

Quote from: florida on April 26, 2010, 03:13:05 PM
Here is another variation in Belle Isle on a side street which could be what you're trying to explain with the T-intersection, Roadfro.

Not quite...as that one's not a roundabout.

Here's one in northwest Reno that's more what I was referring to. The raised islands on the right side of this view prevent vehicles on the top of the T intersection from completely blowing through without slowing down. This isn't a perfect design, but does show evidence that this mini-roundabout was likely installed after the intersection had been built.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Bryant5493

I contacted one local county DOT, and talked to them about replacing some of the stop signs in neighborhoods with yield signs.

Here's what one of the representatives wrote:

Concerning the yield signs, [blank] County elects to use Stop Signs as a
traffic control measure at stop conditions.  This follows policy of the
MUTCD which governs traffic control devices.  With the use of Stop Signs,
we maintain a uniformity of stop condition traffic control devices
throughout the County.



ONE INTERSECTION IN QUESTION


Be well,

Bryant
Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

I just signed up on photobucket -- here's my page (http://s594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Bryant5493).



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