I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange

[Alps]

Westerly I-295 doesn't connect with southerly NJ-42, either.

It might: http://www.rdvsystems.com/portfolio/i295-missing-moves-nj/

I was aware of that project.  Any scheduled date yet to begin construction?

Without Googling it (since I'm sure you've done the same before asking), I've heard that it's going to start before the current interchange work is completed (i.e., final striping, planting/seeding, punchlist).

[jeffandnicole]

From someone who lives south of New Jersey, the foolishness of not being able to connect directly between the Turnpike and NJ-42/AC Expressway to utilize the Expressway to the coast.  The NJ-42/AC Expressway was completed by 1965 and that should have been a no-brainer.

While most people don't think of it, 95 to 76 in Philly then to 42 is all freeway.

Of course they don't.  It is considerably longer and goes thru highly urbanized areas.

You saw my answer below, right? 4 additional miles. Not a lot.

When there's no congestion, compared to taking the NJ Turnpike to Exit 3 to AC it takes 1 additional minute and 4 extra miles longer to use 95 and 495 from DE into PA, then 76 to 42 if you must have an all freeway route. If you take I-295 in NJ to 76 West and make a u-turn at Market Street (Exit 1C), it's 1 extra mile and the same amount of time as it is to take the NJ Turnpike.

A left turn onto a 2-lane street and then a loop.  Could only carry very low volumes of freeway traffic before congesting.

Westerly I-295 doesn't connect with southerly NJ-42, either.  So I-295 can't take the place of the missing Turnpike interchange.

I live 3 miles from the interchange. It's not as bad as you're trying to make it out to be. It's actually the recommended route to get from 295 North to 42 South.

[Beltway]

From someone who lives south of New Jersey, the foolishness of not being able to connect directly between the Turnpike and NJ-42/AC Expressway to utilize the Expressway to the coast.  The NJ-42/AC Expressway was completed by 1965 and that should have been a no-brainer.

While most people don't think of it, 95 to 76 in Philly then to 42 is all freeway.

Of course they don't.  It is considerably longer and goes thru highly urbanized areas.

You saw my answer below, right? 4 additional miles. Not a lot.

There is no way that a rational person is going to go thru Philadelphia, Chester and Wilmington when there is a shorter route that bypasses them entirely, especially when those roads congest frequently.

Besides, take a close look at the ramps between I-76 and I-95 -- it is not "all freeway".

A left turn onto a 2-lane street and then a loop.  Could only carry very low volumes of freeway traffic before congesting.
Westerly I-295 doesn't connect with southerly NJ-42, either.  So I-295 can't take the place of the missing Turnpike interchange.

I live 3 miles from the interchange. It's not as bad as you're trying to make it out to be. It's actually the recommended route to get from 295 North to 42 South.

Recommended by who?  I didn't say that it was "bad", just that it is not a freeway-grade connection between two freeways.  It is a very substandard connection and it involves backtracking on a freeway.

[jeffandnicole]

From someone who lives south of New Jersey, the foolishness of not being able to connect directly between the Turnpike and NJ-42/AC Expressway to utilize the Expressway to the coast.  The NJ-42/AC Expressway was completed by 1965 and that should have been a no-brainer.

While most people don't think of it, 95 to 76 in Philly then to 42 is all freeway.

Of course they don't.  It is considerably longer and goes thru highly urbanized areas.

You saw my answer below, right? 4 additional miles. Not a lot.

There is no way that a rational person is going to go thru Philadelphia, Chester and Wilmington when there is a shorter route that bypasses them entirely, especially when those roads congest frequently.

Besides, take a close look at the ramps between I-76 and I-95 -- it is not "all freeway".

Dude...95 North to 76 East is all freeway. That's what I said. Stop looking at a map and instead live in the area and drive it daily if not weekly so you know what you're talking about.

A left turn onto a 2-lane street and then a loop.  Could only carry very low volumes of freeway traffic before congesting.
Westerly I-295 doesn't connect with southerly NJ-42, either.  So I-295 can't take the place of the missing Turnpike interchange.

I live 3 miles from the interchange. It's not as bad as you're trying to make it out to be. It's actually the recommended route to get from 295 North to 42 South.

Recommended by who?  I didn't say that it was "bad", just that it is not a freeway-grade connection between two freeways.  It is a very substandard connection and it involves backtracking on a freeway.

Lots of people and things (GPSs, written directions by companies etc). Yes it's not ideal, but it's the recommended way to get from 295 North to 42 South until the missing moves ramps are built.

Westerly I-295 doesn't connect with southerly NJ-42, either.

It might: http://www.rdvsystems.com/portfolio/i295-missing-moves-nj/

I was aware of that project.  Any scheduled date yet to begin construction?

Without Googling it (since I'm sure you've done the same before asking), I've heard that it's going to start before the current interchange work is completed (i.e., final striping, planting/seeding, punchlist).

It's currently in the books to start this fiscal year (FY19). We'll see...

[Beltway]

There is no way that a rational person is going to go thru Philadelphia, Chester and Wilmington when there is a shorter route that bypasses them entirely, especially when those roads congest frequently.
Besides, take a close look at the ramps between I-76 and I-95 -- it is not "all freeway".

Dude...95 North to 76 East is all freeway. That's what I said. Stop looking at a map and instead live in the area and drive it daily if not weekly so you know what you're talking about.

I-76 West to I-95 South is NOT "all freeway".  Playing the "local card" in that manner just makes you look trollish.

Recommended by who?  I didn't say that it was "bad", just that it is not a freeway-grade connection between two freeways.  It is a very substandard connection and it involves backtracking on a freeway.

Lots of people and things (GPSs, written directions by companies etc). Yes it's not ideal, but it's the recommended way to get from 295 North to 42 South until the missing moves ramps are built.

I still find that hard to believe.  Seems more logical to use NJ-168.  Even if true it shows how dysfunctional that movement is and that there is no worthwhile connection.

I will grant that a fully modernized and full connection between I-295 and NJ-55 could provide full functionality in lieu of the missing interchange between the Turnpike and NJ-55 given what would be involved in building such an interchange today.  Traffic to/from Delaware and south would be directed to use I-295, and traffic to/from the north would be directed to use I-195 and I-295.  Full superhighway connections.

[jeffandnicole]

There is no way that a rational person is going to go thru Philadelphia, Chester and Wilmington when there is a shorter route that bypasses them entirely, especially when those roads congest frequently.
Besides, take a close look at the ramps between I-76 and I-95 -- it is not "all freeway".

Dude...95 North to 76 East is all freeway. That's what I said. Stop looking at a map and instead live in the area and drive it daily if not weekly so you know what you're talking about.

I-76 West to I-95 South is NOT "all freeway".  Playing the "local card" in that manner just makes you look trollish.

Trollish is ignoring what one says. I never said 76 West to 95 South is all freeway. Not once.

Recommended by who?  I didn't say that it was "bad", just that it is not a freeway-grade connection between two freeways.  It is a very substandard connection and it involves backtracking on a freeway.

Lots of people and things (GPSs, written directions by companies etc). Yes it's not ideal, but it's the recommended way to get from 295 North to 42 South until the missing moves ramps are built.

I still find that hard to believe.  Seems more logical to use NJ-168.  Even if true it shows how dysfunctional that movement is and that there is no worthwhile connection.

Making the u-turn at 168 adds another 1.5 miles to the drive. Also, the light getting off of 295 onto 168 can be about 2 minutes or more in length.

Also, NJDOT signs the Exit 1C ramp from I-76 for making that u-turn:  https://goo.gl/maps/TeoVLqkQWdo , then https://goo.gl/maps/SvQQKLNXirK2

I will grant that a fully modernized and full connection between I-295 and NJ-55 could provide full functionality in lieu of the missing interchange between the Turnpike and NJ-55 given what would be involved in building such an interchange today.  Traffic to/from Delaware and south would be directed to use I-295, and traffic to/from the north would be directed to use I-195 and I-295.  Full superhighway connections.

Why 195? No one that far north would be directed to anything involving 55.

[bzakharin]

There is no way that a rational person is going to go thru Philadelphia, Chester and Wilmington when there is a shorter route that bypasses them entirely, especially when those roads congest frequently.
Besides, take a close look at the ramps between I-76 and I-95 -- it is not "all freeway".

Dude...95 North to 76 East is all freeway. That's what I said. Stop looking at a map and instead live in the area and drive it daily if not weekly so you know what you're talking about.

I-76 West to I-95 South is NOT "all freeway".  Playing the "local card" in that manner just makes you look trollish.

Recommended by who?  I didn't say that it was "bad", just that it is not a freeway-grade connection between two freeways.  It is a very substandard connection and it involves backtracking on a freeway.

Lots of people and things (GPSs, written directions by companies etc). Yes it's not ideal, but it's the recommended way to get from 295 North to 42 South until the missing moves ramps are built.

I still find that hard to believe.  Seems more logical to use NJ-168.  Even if true it shows how dysfunctional that movement is and that there is no worthwhile connection.

I will grant that a fully modernized and full connection between I-295 and NJ-55 could provide full functionality in lieu of the missing interchange between the Turnpike and NJ-55 given what would be involved in building such an interchange today.  Traffic to/from Delaware and south would be directed to use I-295, and traffic to/from the north would be directed to use I-195 and I-295.  Full superhighway connections.

I'm guessing you mean NJ 42 and not NJ 55. Because once the missing moves are taken care of you get a full modern connection from 295 to 55 and vice versa via 42. If I understand correctly, 55 North, instead of dropping down to one lane approaching the terminus, will continue as the right two lanes of NJ 42, and will become the exit lanes to I-295 north and south. it remains to be seen whether this will do anything about constant backups on 55 North, and how increased weaving will impact things

[jeffandnicole]

There is no way that a rational person is going to go thru Philadelphia, Chester and Wilmington when there is a shorter route that bypasses them entirely, especially when those roads congest frequently.
Besides, take a close look at the ramps between I-76 and I-95 -- it is not "all freeway".

Dude...95 North to 76 East is all freeway. That's what I said. Stop looking at a map and instead live in the area and drive it daily if not weekly so you know what you're talking about.

I-76 West to I-95 South is NOT "all freeway".  Playing the "local card" in that manner just makes you look trollish.

Recommended by who?  I didn't say that it was "bad", just that it is not a freeway-grade connection between two freeways.  It is a very substandard connection and it involves backtracking on a freeway.

Lots of people and things (GPSs, written directions by companies etc). Yes it's not ideal, but it's the recommended way to get from 295 North to 42 South until the missing moves ramps are built.

I still find that hard to believe.  Seems more logical to use NJ-168.  Even if true it shows how dysfunctional that movement is and that there is no worthwhile connection.

I will grant that a fully modernized and full connection between I-295 and NJ-55 could provide full functionality in lieu of the missing interchange between the Turnpike and NJ-55 given what would be involved in building such an interchange today.  Traffic to/from Delaware and south would be directed to use I-295, and traffic to/from the north would be directed to use I-195 and I-295.  Full superhighway connections.

I'm guessing you mean NJ 42 and not NJ 55. Because once the missing moves are taken care of you get a full modern connection from 295 to 55 and vice versa via 42. If I understand correctly, 55 North, instead of dropping down to one lane approaching the terminus, will continue as the right two lanes of NJ 42, and will become the exit lanes to I-295 north and south. it remains to be seen whether this will do anything about constant backups on 55 North, and how increased weaving will impact things

Correct. It will help, but probably won't eliminate all congestion on 55 North. But at least the annoying off-time congestion should be gone.

[Beltway]

There is no way that a rational person is going to go thru Philadelphia, Chester and Wilmington when there is a shorter route that bypasses them entirely, especially when those roads congest frequently.
Besides, take a close look at the ramps between I-76 and I-95 -- it is not "all freeway".

Dude...95 North to 76 East is all freeway. That's what I said. Stop looking at a map and instead live in the area and drive it daily if not weekly so you know what you're talking about.

I-76 West to I-95 South is NOT "all freeway".  Playing the "local card" in that manner just makes you look trollish.

Trollish is ignoring what one says. I never said 76 West to 95 South is all freeway. Not once.

Recommended by who?  I didn't say that it was "bad", just that it is not a freeway-grade connection between two freeways.  It is a very substandard connection and it involves backtracking on a freeway.

Lots of people and things (GPSs, written directions by companies etc). Yes it's not ideal, but it's the recommended way to get from 295 North to 42 South until the missing moves ramps are built.

I still find that hard to believe.  Seems more logical to use NJ-168.  Even if true it shows how dysfunctional that movement is and that there is no worthwhile connection.

Making the u-turn at 168 adds another 1.5 miles to the drive. Also, the light getting off of 295 onto 168 can be about 2 minutes or more in length.

Also, NJDOT signs the Exit 1C ramp from I-76 for making that u-turn:  https://goo.gl/maps/TeoVLqkQWdo , then https://goo.gl/maps/SvQQKLNXirK2

I will grant that a fully modernized and full connection between I-295 and NJ-55 could provide full functionality in lieu of the missing interchange between the Turnpike and NJ-55 given what would be involved in building such an interchange today.  Traffic to/from Delaware and south would be directed to use I-295, and traffic to/from the north would be directed to use I-195 and I-295.  Full superhighway connections.

Why 195? No one that far north would be directed to anything involving 55.

Will you please fix your attributions?  I am tired of having to fix your posts to quote correctly, and I left this one as is.

You: "I never said 76 West to 95 South is all freeway. Not once."

Your original wording implied that I-76 and I-95 had a full freeway connection.  You have a writing style that seems to cleverly words things at times that say things that they really don't say.

You: "NJDOT signs the Exit 1C ramp from I-76 for making that u-turn:"

Like I said, it shows how dysfunctional that movement is and that there is no worthwhile connection.

You: "Why 195? No one that far north would be directed to anything involving 55."

Because northern Turnpike==>I-195==>I-295==>NJ-42 and vice versa would be a full freeway-grade route.  [I meant NJ-42]

Why weren't the legs of I-295 built in a conventional manner so that I-295 and NJ-42 cross in a normal 4-way interchange?  That would have greately alleviated the current problems.

[bzakharin]

Why weren't the legs of I-295 built in a conventional manner so that I-295 and NJ-42 cross in a normal 4-way interchange?  That would have greately alleviated the current problems.

I'm only guessing, but it's probably not a coincidence that NJ 42 was completed to I-295 in 1958, and that I-295 was completed from the south to NJ 42 in 1958. I'm not sure, though, why the situation wasn't fixed when I-295 was extended northward. I don't think there was ever any plan to terminated 295 at the North-South Freeway or vice versa.

[famartin]

Why weren't the legs of I-295 built in a conventional manner so that I-295 and NJ-42 cross in a normal 4-way interchange?  That would have greately alleviated the current problems.

I'm only guessing, but it's probably not a coincidence that NJ 42 was completed to I-295 in 1958, and that I-295 was completed from the south to NJ 42 in 1958. I'm not sure, though, why the situation wasn't fixed when I-295 was extended northward. I don't think there was ever any plan to terminated 295 at the North-South Freeway or vice versa.

The existing geography of the area encouraged the current layout... much of the development in that area was already present when the highways were built.  In addition, stream corridors were seen as less valuable in those days, so the idea of plowing a highway right through one seemed like a good idea back then.  Finally, the general thought was that traffic would be using I-295 to funnel into Philly via I-76/I-676, rather than continue along I-295.

[Beltway]

Why weren't the legs of I-295 built in a conventional manner so that I-295 and NJ-42 cross in a normal 4-way interchange?  That would have greately alleviated the current problems.

I'm only guessing, but it's probably not a coincidence that NJ 42 was completed to I-295 in 1958, and that I-295 was completed from the south to NJ 42 in 1958. I'm not sure, though, why the situation wasn't fixed when I-295 was extended northward. I don't think there was ever any plan to terminated 295 at the North-South Freeway or vice versa.

The existing geography of the area encouraged the current layout... much of the development in that area was already present when the highways were built.  In addition, stream corridors were seen as less valuable in those days, so the idea of plowing a highway right through one seemed like a good idea back then.  Finally, the general thought was that traffic would be using I-295 to funnel into Philly via I-76/I-676, rather than continue along I-295.

But wasn't I-295 planned (in addition to being a local access freeway in the NJTP corridor)  to be a bypass of I-95 and SE PA between Delaware and Trenton with the connection to the new I-95 that was planned then between Trenton and New Brunswick?  It still does that today albeit via I-195 to the NJTP.

If the east leg of I-295 was lined up with where the west leg was built and a full interchange was built with NJ-42, it would barely miss the edge of a large cemetary, take out at least 100 homes and maybe up to 10 businesses.  Big impacts.  But lots of freeways were being built back then in the 1950s and 1960s with much greater R/W impacts, such as NJ I-676 and PA I-95.

[famartin]

Why weren't the legs of I-295 built in a conventional manner so that I-295 and NJ-42 cross in a normal 4-way interchange?  That would have greately alleviated the current problems.

I'm only guessing, but it's probably not a coincidence that NJ 42 was completed to I-295 in 1958, and that I-295 was completed from the south to NJ 42 in 1958. I'm not sure, though, why the situation wasn't fixed when I-295 was extended northward. I don't think there was ever any plan to terminated 295 at the North-South Freeway or vice versa.

The existing geography of the area encouraged the current layout... much of the development in that area was already present when the highways were built.  In addition, stream corridors were seen as less valuable in those days, so the idea of plowing a highway right through one seemed like a good idea back then.  Finally, the general thought was that traffic would be using I-295 to funnel into Philly via I-76/I-676, rather than continue along I-295.

But wasn't I-295 planned (in addition to being a local access freeway in the NJTP corridor)  to be a bypass of I-95 and SE PA between Delaware and Trenton with the connection to the new I-95 that was planned then between Trenton and New Brunswick?  It still does that today albeit via I-195 to the NJTP.

If the east leg of I-295 was lined up with where the west leg was built and a full interchange was built with NJ-42, it would barely miss the edge of a large cemetary, take out at least 100 homes and maybe up to 10 businesses.  Big impacts.  But lots of freeways were being built back then in the 1950s and 1960s with much greater R/W impacts, such as NJ I-676 and PA I-95.

I honestly think I-295 was meant to be an intermediate road between the NJTP and US 130, with a bit less thought given to it being a bypass of I-95 (which I suspect even then, they realized was something the NJTP acted as). In other words, they intended I-295 to supplant US 130, much like I-95 was supposed to supplant US 1, I-78 supplanted US 22, I-80 supplanted US 46, etc. 

As far as deciding not to plow through existing developments, yes that certainly did happen in NJ and elsewhere during the freeway building period.  One thing that might've discouraged it, though, was that while in other parts of the state, you might be plowing through neighborhoods while the actual percentage of the town affected wasn't that big, this section of I-295 passes along the edges of a bunch of pretty small boroughs, so as far as local government was concerned, the effects would be extraordinarily large. That's just a thought, no evidence necessarily to back that up, but take a look at a map of the municipalities in that area.  There's A LOT, and they are all pretty small.

[Beltway]

I honestly think I-295 was meant to be an intermediate road between the NJTP and US 130, with a bit less thought given to it being a bypass of I-95 (which I suspect even then, they realized was something the NJTP acted as). In other words, they intended I-295 to supplant US 130, much like I-95 was supposed to supplant US 1, I-78 supplanted US 22, I-80 supplanted US 46, etc. 

The Turnpike averages over 10 mile interchange spacing between the southern end and Trenton, which is great for a thru superhighway, but provides little if any local connectivity.

Allocating I-295 to the Interstate system seemed to provide three major benefits to that corridor, 1) parallel additional superhighway capacity, 2) an alignment closer to the populated areas, and 3) close interchange spacing which provides a high degree of local connectivity.

As far as deciding not to plow through existing developments, yes that certainly did happen in NJ and elsewhere during the freeway building period.  One thing that might've discouraged it, though, was that while in other parts of the state, you might be plowing through neighborhoods while the actual percentage of the town affected wasn't that big, this section of I-295 passes along the edges of a bunch of pretty small boroughs, so as far as local government was concerned, the effects would be extraordinarily large. That's just a thought, no evidence necessarily to back that up, but take a look at a map of the municipalities in that area.  There's A LOT, and they are all pretty small.

True, Bellmawr looks like a high percentage of it would have been acquired for the alignment I suggested.

Back in the late 1950s when the alignments were originally planned, there was -vastly- less traffic than there is today.  The configuration as built probably worked well enough for the first 20 years or so, and that was an adequate design year for the times.

[jeffandnicole]

Will you please fix your attributions?  I am tired of having to fix your posts to quote correctly, and I left this one as is.

My bad - Easy to mess up on a cell phone when there's multiple quotes.  Without manually adding in another "/quote", it messes it up.

You: "I never said 76 West to 95 South is all freeway. Not once."

Your original wording implied that I-76 and I-95 had a full freeway connection.  You have a writing style that seems to cleverly words things at times that say things that they really don't say.

Here are the exact references I've made:

Reply #2094 on: October 07, 2018, 12:12:52 AM: "While most people don't think of it, 95 to 76 in Philly then to 42 is all freeway."

Reply #2103 on: October 08, 2018, 07:51:15 AM: "95 North to 76 East is all freeway."

So I never once claimed there was a full freeway connection here.  I fully said - twice - that entering NJ from PA is freeway. You repeating responded back with someone I didn't say.  I can't help that you read into what I said wrong.  Twice.

[jeffandnicole]

Why weren't the legs of I-295 built in a conventional manner so that I-295 and NJ-42 cross in a normal 4-way interchange?  That would have greately alleviated the current problems.

I'm only guessing, but it's probably not a coincidence that NJ 42 was completed to I-295 in 1958, and that I-295 was completed from the south to NJ 42 in 1958. I'm not sure, though, why the situation wasn't fixed when I-295 was extended northward. I don't think there was ever any plan to terminated 295 at the North-South Freeway or vice versa.

The existing geography of the area encouraged the current layout... much of the development in that area was already present when the highways were built.  In addition, stream corridors were seen as less valuable in those days, so the idea of plowing a highway right through one seemed like a good idea back then.  Finally, the general thought was that traffic would be using I-295 to funnel into Philly via I-76/I-676, rather than continue along I-295.

This question was asked to NJDOT somewhat recently.  The problem is, the interchange was designed and built back in the 1950's.  Anyone who worked on the project at NJDOT back then is long since retired, and most likely dead.  So answers are really hard to come by, unless it's written in project notes somewhere, which are in some box in some warehouse never to be seen again.

If you look at the historic layout, I think famartin is pretty close here.  The highway already plowed thru an existing community, which I believe was built for those that had fought in WW1. 295 had good connections for those wanting to get onto I-76 West, especially going North thru Gloucester County.  Going North on I-295, motorists could take Exit 26 and get onto the Express lanes, which lead you directly onto the Walt Whitman Bridge.  Motorists on 295 North wanting the Ben Franklin Bridge, US 130 or I-676 stayed on 295 past Exit 26 and could merge over where 295/76/42 were a combined 4 lanes wide within the interchange, picking up I-76 Local. 

Motorists on NJ 42 also could take the left lane to get onto the Express lanes for the Walt Whitman Bridge, or use the 2 right lanes to use local I-76 West, 295 North, or any other exit.   

Motorists coming South on I-295 could only use I-76 Local, and there was a single lane merge onto the Walt Whitman Bridge.

Coming off the Walt Whitman Bridge into NJ, motorists in the 2 left lanes were put onto the 76 East Express lanes, where 1 lane eventually exited onto I-295 South, and 1 lane became NJ 42 South.  The right lane coming off the Walt Whitman Bridge put traffic onto I-76 East's Local lanes, where it merged with I-676 South, and motorists could access US 130, I-295 North and Rt. 42 South.

This was all designed at a time when there was no Commodore Barry Bridge, nor I don't believe it was even conceived at the time.  North of 76, there was already the Ben Franklin, Tacony Palmyra and Burlington Bristol Bridges.  So with 3 bridges and decent roadway access, it would make sense to planners at the time that traffic from the south needed better access than traffic from the north.

In the 1990's, after Rt. 55 had opened, widening of Rt. 42 was needed.  It was decided to fully eliminate the Express/Local lane divider on 76 East, and reduce its length on I-76 West. 

The current project eliminated the express/local lane barrier completely.

Of course, none of this explains why the missing moves ramps were missing. It's a question that you have to asked people from the 1950's about.  Should they still be missing?  No.  They originally going to be built back around 2006.  However, a developer owns the rights to a capped landfill area in Bellmawr near where the missing moves ramps would be built.  He wanted better access to his project, and NJDOT, being overly patient, decided to hold off and listen.  It would've been a Breezewood-like connection, where the ramp would've become a surface street for a bit.  The developer though had a bigger issue - the main stakeholders in his project, which at one time would've included a Bass Pro Shop and even a minor league ballpark, didn't want to build at a time when there was going to be a major construction project going on, which is the 295 Direct Connection currently being built.  So the developer lost that leverage.  However, NJDOT has been very slow to actually push this thru.  Originally, it was claimed the Feds wanted that connection built prior to the 295 Direct Connection project.  Now, it's barely going to be done before the Direct Connection.  And there's still no hint as to a start date.

If the east leg of I-295 was lined up with where the west leg was built and a full interchange was built with NJ-42, it would barely miss the edge of a large cemetary, take out at least 100 homes and maybe up to 10 businesses.  Big impacts.  But lots of freeways were being built back then in the 1950s and 1960s with much greater R/W impacts, such as NJ I-676 and PA I-95.

I do recall when the designed were developed for the current project, one was using a 70 mph design speed.  I believe it would require full or partial elimination of 170 homes and businesses.  It was an early proposal that everyone knew wouldn't be accepted, but the feds require such analysis.  Of course, it was soundly rejected.  It's shown in a basic form here:  https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/commuter/roads/rt295/pdf/altE.pdf .  Because it wasn't really going to be researched further, this is the only basic design that was done and publicized.

The actual design that was ultimately selected is Alternative D, and even that has undergone some tweaking. https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/commuter/roads/rt295/alternatives_map-d.shtm

The current project resulted in 13 property acquisitions.  As shown on this link: https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/commuter/roads/rt295/pdf/AltMatrix.pdf , there were a few options that took fewer properties, but would've resulted in a double-decked 295.  Cool to look at from our standpoint; not from the standpoint of residents living nearly under the overpass.  I believe because of the properties being taken, NJDOT took the unusual step of rebuilding all but one of the properties elsewhere in the vicinity of the development, and I've heard that they were direct reproductions of the homes the residents currently had.  The 1 not rebuilt was a rancher on Creek Rd next to an overpass that was lengthened and widened.

[Beltway]

You: "I never said 76 West to 95 South is all freeway. Not once."
Your original wording implied that I-76 and I-95 had a full freeway connection.  You have a writing style that seems to cleverly words things at times that say things that they really don't say.

Here are the exact references I've made:
Reply #2094 on: October 07, 2018, 12:12:52 AM: "While most people don't think of it, 95 to 76 in Philly then to 42 is all freeway."
Reply #2103 on: October 08, 2018, 07:51:15 AM: "95 North to 76 East is all freeway."
So I never once claimed there was a full freeway connection here.  I fully said - twice - that entering NJ from PA is freeway. You repeating responded back with someone I didn't say.  I can't help that you read into what I said wrong.  Twice.

You promoted the I-95 and I-76 route in lieu of the lack of southerly connection between I-295 and NJ-42, and the lack of southerly connection between NJTP and NJ-42.  It was the first reference (2094) that I made the first comment about the one direction not being full freeway.  Why suggest it as an alternate when it has a missing connection as well?  The whole idea of using that route thru Philadelphia instead of bypassing it is rather odd in the first place.

[jeffandnicole]

You: "I never said 76 West to 95 South is all freeway. Not once."
Your original wording implied that I-76 and I-95 had a full freeway connection.  You have a writing style that seems to cleverly words things at times that say things that they really don't say.

Here are the exact references I've made:
Reply #2094 on: October 07, 2018, 12:12:52 AM: "While most people don't think of it, 95 to 76 in Philly then to 42 is all freeway."
Reply #2103 on: October 08, 2018, 07:51:15 AM: "95 North to 76 East is all freeway."
So I never once claimed there was a full freeway connection here.  I fully said - twice - that entering NJ from PA is freeway. You repeating responded back with someone I didn't say.  I can't help that you read into what I said wrong.  Twice.

You promoted the I-95 and I-76 route in lieu of the lack of southerly connection between I-295 and NJ-42, and the lack of southerly connection between NJTP and NJ-42.  It was the first reference (2094) that I made the first comment about the one direction not being full freeway.  Why suggest it as an alternate when it has a missing connection as well?  The whole idea of using that route thru Philadelphia instead of bypassing it is rather odd in the first place.

95 to 76 doesn't have a missing connection.  76 to 95 does, which is why I didn't mention it.  I can't answer your question of why suggest it as an alternate when it has a missing connection BECAUSE I DIDN'T SUGGEST IT.

While you keep claiming the 95 to 76 connection isn't comparable, it comes up on Google Maps as an option when the times are very comparable.  Maybe your beef is with Google Maps.  No guarantees it'll show it when you look at it, but when I type in Newark, DE to Atlantic City, NJ, the 2 options shown are for 295 in NJ and 95 in PA.  The NJ route shown is 2 miles shorter and 2 minutes quicker.  You may not think of it this way, but both routes take a Northeasterly turn.  If one desires a truly full-freeway route, for an additional 2 minutes you get what you want.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Newark,+Delaware/Atlantic+City,+NJ/@39.6348873,-75.3664692,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c77a9ae39789eb:0x2ee246f2974c385c!2m2!1d-75.7496572!2d39.6837226!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c0dd576e5cc721:0x4a6fcb43e9675262!2m2!1d-74.4229266!2d39.3642834!3e0

If you desire a full-freeway return route between AC and Delaware/Points South, there's two possible ways to do it:

A) AC Expressway West to Rt. 42 North to I-76 West, across the Walt Whitman Bridge to I-676 East to I-95 South.
B) AC Expressway West to Rt. 42 North to I-676 North,. across the Ben Franklin Bridge to I-676 East to I-95 South.

Both involve several miles of extra distance and sometimes a decent additional extra time; not worth either in my opinion.

[Beltway]

You promoted the I-95 and I-76 route in lieu of the lack of southerly connection between I-295 and NJ-42, and the lack of southerly connection between NJTP and NJ-42.  It was the first reference (2094) that I made the first comment about the one direction not being full freeway.  Why suggest it as an alternate when it has a missing connection as well?  The whole idea of using that route thru Philadelphia instead of bypassing it is rather odd in the first place.

95 to 76 doesn't have a missing connection.  76 to 95 does, which is why I didn't mention it.  I can't answer your question of why suggest it as an alternate when it has a missing connection BECAUSE I DIDN'T SUGGEST IT.
While you keep claiming the 95 to 76 connection isn't comparable, it comes up on Google Maps as an option when the times are very comparable.   

IN FREE FLOWING TRAFFIC.  No thinking driver (again we are talking about people from Maryland and south who may have no local knowledge) is going to drive I-95 in SE PA, I-95 in Philadelphia, cross the WWB, use NJ I-76, when they can bypass all of it.  Nor should they even consider it just because NJ didn't properly connect I-295 to NJ-42.

[PHLBOS]

95 to 76 doesn't have a missing connection.  76 to 95 does, which is why I didn't mention it.  I can't answer your question of why suggest it as an alternate when it has a missing connection BECAUSE I DIDN'T SUGGEST IT.
While you keep claiming the 95 to 76 connection isn't comparable, it comes up on Google Maps as an option when the times are very comparable.   

IN FREE FLOWING TRAFFIC.  No thinking driver (again we are talking about people from Maryland and south who may have no local knowledge) is going to drive I-95 in SE PA, I-95 in Philadelphia, cross the WWB, use NJ I-76, when they can bypass all of it.  Nor should they even consider it just because NJ didn't properly connect I-295 to NJ-42.

For grins & giggles, I went to Google Maps to see what routing choices I would get if I entered a Newark, DE to Atlantic City trip.  Here were the two generated choices: one of them was indeed involves using I-95 into South Philly and then taking I-76 East along the Walt Whitman Bridge.

The reverse trip gave me three routing choices: the opposite of the two previous routings plus one that uses the NJ Turnpike (exiting off NJ 42 & using NJ 168/Black Horse Pike to enter the Turnpike at Exit 3).

[jeffandnicole]

95 to 76 doesn't have a missing connection.  76 to 95 does, which is why I didn't mention it.  I can't answer your question of why suggest it as an alternate when it has a missing connection BECAUSE I DIDN'T SUGGEST IT.
While you keep claiming the 95 to 76 connection isn't comparable, it comes up on Google Maps as an option when the times are very comparable.   

IN FREE FLOWING TRAFFIC.  No thinking driver (again we are talking about people from Maryland and south who may have no local knowledge) is going to drive I-95 in SE PA, I-95 in Philadelphia, cross the WWB, use NJ I-76, when they can bypass all of it.  Nor should they even consider it just because NJ didn't properly connect I-295 to NJ-42.

For grins & giggles, I went to Google Maps to see what routing choices I would get if I entered a Newark, DE to Atlantic City trip.  Here were the two generated choices: one of them was indeed involves using I-95 into South Philly and then taking I-76 East along the Walt Whitman Bridge.

The reverse trip gave me three routing choices: the opposite of the two previous routings plus one that uses the NJ Turnpike (exiting off NJ 42 & using NJ 168/Black Horse Pike to enter the Turnpike at Exit 3).

Would 95 North to 76 East across the Walt Whitman ever be the fastest?  I could certainly see that happening - holiday traffic heading to the NJ Turnpike would slow 95 and 295 in Delaware.  Or construction on the Delaware Memorial Bridge when only 1 or 2 lanes are open at night - that's a notorious speed killer.  I personally have taken 95 into PA then crossed the Commodore Barry bridge to escape construction traffic on the bridge. 

So there's most likely some times when 95 to 76 within PA is the fastest route.

[ipeters61]

95 to 76 doesn't have a missing connection.  76 to 95 does, which is why I didn't mention it.  I can't answer your question of why suggest it as an alternate when it has a missing connection BECAUSE I DIDN'T SUGGEST IT.
While you keep claiming the 95 to 76 connection isn't comparable, it comes up on Google Maps as an option when the times are very comparable.   

IN FREE FLOWING TRAFFIC.  No thinking driver (again we are talking about people from Maryland and south who may have no local knowledge) is going to drive I-95 in SE PA, I-95 in Philadelphia, cross the WWB, use NJ I-76, when they can bypass all of it.  Nor should they even consider it just because NJ didn't properly connect I-295 to NJ-42.

For grins & giggles, I went to Google Maps to see what routing choices I would get if I entered a Newark, DE to Atlantic City trip.  Here were the two generated choices: one of them was indeed involves using I-95 into South Philly and then taking I-76 East along the Walt Whitman Bridge.

The reverse trip gave me three routing choices: the opposite of the two previous routings plus one that uses the NJ Turnpike (exiting off NJ 42 & using NJ 168/Black Horse Pike to enter the Turnpike at Exit 3).

Would 95 North to 76 East across the Walt Whitman ever be the fastest?  I could certainly see that happening - holiday traffic heading to the NJ Turnpike would slow 95 and 295 in Delaware.  Or construction on the Delaware Memorial Bridge when only 1 or 2 lanes are open at night - that's a notorious speed killer.  I personally have taken 95 into PA then crossed the Commodore Barry bridge to escape construction traffic on the bridge. 

So there's most likely some times when 95 to 76 within PA is the fastest route.

Ah yes, reminds me of a time when I came back to Delaware from Connecticut on the Saturday after Thanksgiving and spent an hour on the Delaware Memorial Bridge just to cross.  I then just made a semi-dangerous maneuver to get off onto DE-9 and took 273/58/4 back to Newark (I prefer that over just taking 273).  When crossing 95 while on 58, I realized I made the right decision since the local roads were moving just fine and 95 was still gridlocked.

[jeffandnicole]

Ah yes, reminds me of a time when I came back to Delaware from Connecticut on the Saturday after Thanksgiving and spent an hour on the Delaware Memorial Bridge just to cross.  I then just made a semi-dangerous maneuver to get off onto DE-9 and took 273/58/4 back to Newark (I prefer that over just taking 273).  When crossing 95 while on 58, I realized I made the right decision since the local roads were moving just fine and 95 was still gridlocked.

In cases like that, I've learned to stay to the right on the bridge.  Most people keep left because they want to get to I-95 on the left several miles away.  Get thru the toll plaza - which I think I did at about 20 mph even though the lanes to the left were at a standstill.  Then size it up there.  Last time I kept right past Rt. 9 thru the construction zone, then merged into 95 traffic before the US 13 exit.  Saved me a bit of time, even though I lost time overall due to the congestion.

I've never found DE 9 overly congested although the numerous traffic lights can suck, so if 295 is real bad Rt. 9 is a decent alternative.

[Beltway]

IN FREE FLOWING TRAFFIC.  No thinking driver (again we are talking about people from Maryland and south who may have no local knowledge) is going to drive I-95 in SE PA, I-95 in Philadelphia, cross the WWB, use NJ I-76, when they can bypass all of it.  Nor should they even consider it just because NJ didn't properly connect I-295 to NJ-42.

For grins & giggles, I went to Google Maps to see what routing choices I would get if I entered a Newark, DE to Atlantic City trip.  Here were the two generated choices: one of them was indeed involves using I-95 into South Philly and then taking I-76 East along the Walt Whitman Bridge.
The reverse trip gave me three routing choices: the opposite of the two previous routings plus one that uses the NJ Turnpike (exiting off NJ 42 & using NJ 168/Black Horse Pike to enter the Turnpike at Exit 3).

You still don't seem to understand.  Most people know well enough not to blindly follow mapping software, that it can be wrong or else not account for peak hours traffic.

Someone from outside the area, from the southerly I-95 corridor, who does not know the Philadelphia area, that wants to get to Atlantic City, Ocean City, etc. is going to look at a map (paper or electronic) and they are not going to go thru a city as large as Philadelphia.

I would find the simplist and most reliable route would be to take the NJTP, NJ-42 and the AC Expressway, knowing what I know, and for someone who doesn't know the area most would likely do the same.

[Beltway]

Ah yes, reminds me of a time when I came back to Delaware from Connecticut on the Saturday after Thanksgiving and spent an hour on the Delaware Memorial Bridge just to cross.

The Walt Whitman Bridge is no less prone to serious traffic problems.  At least the Delaware Memorial Bridge is not going to have the morning and afternoon rush periods that a large urban area would have.