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I-35W: North Tarrant Express phase 3C

Started by Chris, August 13, 2019, 12:53:00 PM

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Plutonic Panda

Are there really no price caps? That would be a huge mistake if the price was allowed to get too high. There seemed to be a fair amount against the HO/T lanes in Virginia hitting high prices in a relatively toll friendly area but in Texas I suspect there would be bills introduced to ban the practice all together if that ever happened. lol


wxfree

There are two levels of operation.  We could call one the discretionary mode.  This is what they use most of the time, when there are no challenges to the capacity of the managed lanes.  The company sets the price at whatever level they want.  That price has a cap.  I believe for the LBJ project it's 70 cents per mile for the first year of operation and then adjusted for inflation.  When the traffic count gets too high, or speeds get too low, they go to the second mode, what we might call the formula mode.  The contract contains a mathematical formula, accounting for the current rate and the count and speed of traffic.  The company is then required to set the per-mile rate in accordance with the formula.  If the count jumps rapidly or speeds fall rapidly, that causes a higher increase in tolls.  If the count slowly increases or speeds slowly decrease, that leads to a smaller increase in rates.  As traffic eases, rates are reduced in accordance with the formula until traffic thins out to below the threshold for discretionary mode.  There is no maximum for that price, because it would limit the capacity for managing demand.  However, those prices are set by the contract, so the company can't just gouge people because they want to.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

Beltway

Quote from: Chris on August 20, 2019, 03:33:36 PM
I think the reason why so few U.S. companies are involved in these large PPPs is that it is a relatively new phenomenon in the U.S., I've read that many states even today don't have legislation that allow PPPs, so that may explain why you typically see foreign companies leading these large-scale projects. PPPs have long been common in Australia and Europe.

That is a good point, PPPs have been common in many countries for decades, the U.S. is a latecomer.

The English Channel Tunnel was a PPP and was opened in 1994.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Plutonic Panda


motorola870

#29
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 04, 2021, 02:19:27 PM
The free to use general purpose lanes will finally be expanded to six lanes in parts of north I-35

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort-worth/keller-roanoke-northeast-fort-worth/transportation/2021/03/03/txdot-proposes-400-million-project-to-improve-i-35w-in-north-fort-worth/
Does this include initial preparation for the TX114 stack interchange? Surely the original bridge configuration with the traffic light between the service road sections is coming down. The off ramp bridge for buccee's is not going to be in service as long as the mainline bridges have. I can't believe they did not prepare it for an eventually expansion of TX114. The  writing was on the wall when they built the partially completed grade seperated mainlanes to FM156.

MaxConcrete

#30
Quote from: motorola870 on March 04, 2021, 03:58:15 PM
Does this include initial preparation for the TX114 stack interchange? Surely the original bridge configuration with the traffic light between the service road sections is coming down. The off ramp bridge for buccee's is not going to be in service as long as the mainline bridges have. I can't believe they did not prepare it for an eventually expansion of TX114. The  writing was on the wall when they built the partially completed grade seperated mainlanes to FM156.

Schematics  for IH35W are available here
https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/get-involved/about/hearings-meetings/dallas/021821.html

For the IH35W main lanes the schematics show 3x3 with a wide median, presumably for future 2x2 managed lanes, and continuous frontage roads for the full length from Eagle Parkway to IH-35 at Denton.

The schematic does NOT show any direct connectors at SH 114. There are no stubouts for future ramps where we would expect to see them, although there is a stubout to the managed lanes just south of SH 114. This is very surprising. I agree with with Motorola870 that it's a serious mistake for no connectors to be planned for this interchange. This is definitely baffling.

The schematic does show four connectors at the future Loop 288 extension, including stubouts in the main lanes.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

Bobby5280

#31
I had to make an impromptu road trip down to the DFW area last night. On the trip down I went through Fort Worth and had to take the I-35W express lanes to avoid jams on the free/general purpose lanes. The spot where the 100+ vehicle pile up happened on February 11 was all repaired & cleaned up. On the way back I drove up US-67 and I-35E to check out progress on that massive expansion project (still a long way to go). Then I picked up TX-114 to exit DFW via Grapevine.

TX-114 is badly overdue for that freeway upgrade from Roanoke out West to the Texas Motor Speedway complex. I was passing through there after 9:00pm last night and the traffic along TX-114 was still pretty heavy. There is a huge median there ready for a new freeway to be dropped into it. TX DOT needs to get that done already.

The intersection with TX-114 and I-35W is a pain in the ass. Traffic there is ridiculous, even well into the night. If TX DOT and other powers that be have no plans to build a freeway to freeway stack interchange in that spot they must be smoking some special kind of weed.

Of course there is an obvious question of HOW they would even build a freeway to freeway direct-connect stack interchange between I-35W and TX-114 at this point. The four corners of that intersection have become badly encroached with commercial and industrial properties. And more are snugging into that location as time passes. Buc-ee's #37 occupies a big footprint on the SW corner. Four new stores squeezed their way even farther into the point of that SW corner. The SE corner has a QuikTrip location, a Shell station as well as a growing number of restaurants, hotels and apartment buildings. The NE corner has had some big industrial buildings for a long time, but lately new restaurants and stores have been squeezing in more tightly into that intersection corner. The NW corner belongs to Texas Motor Speedway. That's the only corner with enough open land to allow a pair of flyover ramps (EB TX-114 to NB I-35W and SB I-35W to WB TX-114). TX DOT would have to get pretty creative to build useful freeway to freeway connector ramps that didn't span directly over buildings for the other three corners of the intersection.

Wait, it gets better, TX DOT appears to be screwing the pooch on TX-114 going farther West past Texas Motor Speedway to the US-287 intersection. Not too long ago they upgraded TX-114 through there as a divided expressway with at-grade intersections. They're really going to have to upgrade that and US-287 as well to full Interstate standards, starting with SECURING RIGHT OF WAY. Unfortunately a lot of new properties, such as big home developments are building close enough to the existing TX-114 ROW that a future freeway upgrade might have to be elevated over the existing lanes, which would then function as frontage roads. There doesn't appear to be enough room to build a new freeway with flanking frontage roads all at grade, most certainly not on the usual 350'-450' footprints many such freeways in Texas have already. Only about 250' or less of width is available between utility easements.

Anyone who has driven along TX-114 to the North of Fort Worth has no doubt noticed the explosive growth in home building out in that area. A lot of new businesses are popping up. But some planned developments out in that area are really staggering. PMB Capital Investments has a plan to build 10,000 new homes in the Rhome area, near the intersection with TX-114 and US-287. When that is completed, along with lots of other stuff going up at the same time, a shit-ton more traffic will be dumped onto TX-114.

Right now it doesn't look like TX DOT has any plans at all to make TX-114 a freeway any farther West than Texas Motor Speedway. All this development going on makes that outlook extremely short sighted.

MaxConcrete

The $55 million SH 114 main lanes at US 377 is slated to receive bids in June. This project has taken forever to move forward, and I don't know why it has taken so long because the frontage roads have been in place since 2000.
https://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/let/2021/denton.htm#035309002

According to the recent public meeting info, the main lanes between US 377 and IH35W will be ready for bidding in winter 2022. However it is currently not included in TxDOT's planned 2022 letting list.
http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot/get-involved/dal/sh114/041720-location-map.pdf

I agree with Bobby5280 it is mistake that SH 114 is not being planned as a freeway west of FM 156. The reason may be lack of financial resources, with available funding being directed to the IH35W expansion all the way to Denton. Officials may end up in a situation similar to Collin County with US 380, which is that they'll realize a mistake was made and then face an expensive program to try to build what is needed.

www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

achilles765

I have to say, I've recently seen some videos of the Dallas freeway system and I'm surprised and impressed by how much some of it has changed since I was last in dfw in 2011. The 635 express between 35E and 75 is very cool looking. And they have express lanes or hot lanes on practically every freeway, even roads that are only freeway for a few miles like Loop 12. And the mixmaster of IH 30/45/35E/US 75 is so nice cooler looking and seems so much better designed than the old configuration. Kinda makes me wish we more cool looking aghff like that being done here in Houston. Our only new freeways and most of the additional construction is building roads that look very standard. Grand parkway has a few interesting intersections with other freeways but they are all like typical stacks. 249 is just a normal rural freeway with nothing cool of note.
The 288 express lanes were the coolest thing we've done in a while. 
The Ih 45 rebuild will probably be pretty badass if it's ever actually built and completed but that's a long way off.
Ideally, I'd love to see:
The west 610 loop given an elevated two way express facility that rises above the main lines in the median.
Express lanes on 249 like those on 288
SH 35 freeway built
The Hempstead tollway built along Hempstead road, elevated and with few exits so it functions more as express lanes for 290
US 290 given an interstate designation. IH 14 would be perfect I'd they would change the planned route to bring it through Austin using US190/IH35/US290. Or if settle for an IH 12 or even IH 510 designation.
Inside the 610 loop from galleria heading into downtown– built three lanes each direction elevated above the current depressed lanes. Upper level will be express lanes with exits only at shepherd, IH 45, Smith street and IH 69. Though this would be impossible with the current plans.
Extend Hardy and Have it terminate into Elysian street, then complete the ramps to Elysian from IH69 and construct a connection from Elysian south to Ih 69 south.
I love freeways and roads in any state but Texas will always be first in my heart

-- US 175 --

As for the TX 114 needs by TX Motor Speedway, they *at least* need to freeway-ize/grade-separate it in the area where the Northwest schools complex is.  I can't imagine what school days (especially without the virus-of-the-moment) are like out there in TX 114's current condition.

At the I-35W/TX 114 interchange, I guess short of doing ramps like the recent EB TX 114-to-SB TX 121 elevated one over the 2 car dealerships in Grapevine, the only other option at this point is shifting the ramps footprint slightly north, even though those latest restaurant/retail/whatever additions (SW corner, not counting Buc-ee's) should have gone somewhere else nearby.  It is so amazing to see what that intersection has become since the Speedway was built.

motorola870

Quote from: -- US 175 -- on March 06, 2021, 05:05:17 PM
As for the TX 114 needs by TX Motor Speedway, they *at least* need to freeway-ize/grade-separate it in the area where the Northwest schools complex is.  I can't imagine what school days (especially without the virus-of-the-moment) are like out there in TX 114's current condition.

At the I-35W/TX 114 interchange, I guess short of doing ramps like the recent EB TX 114-to-SB TX 121 elevated one over the 2 car dealerships in Grapevine, the only other option at this point is shifting the ramps footprint slightly north, even though those latest restaurant/retail/whatever additions (SW corner, not counting Buc-ee's) should have gone somewhere else nearby.  It is so amazing to see what that intersection has become since the Speedway was built.
The irony in this is TXDOT has known for years they planned a freeway through there. Having frontage roads on the east side of the underpass in early 2000s should be been a wakeup call to prepare for a full stack. Instead they just let them build right up on the frontage roads so likely now its going to be a 3 level stack with frontage roads providing road to road transitions instead of a proper interchange. Then again isn't the first time TXDOT skimped on a project. US 67 at US 287 has no direct access to Northbound 67 from US 287 southbound. That complicated stack is under review for modifications. You have to exit US 287 business to access Northbound US67.

Bobby5280

Quote from: MaxConcreteI agree with Bobby5280 it is mistake that SH 114 is not being planned as a freeway west of FM 156. The reason may be lack of financial resources, with available funding being directed to the IH35W expansion all the way to Denton. Officials may end up in a situation similar to Collin County with US 380, which is that they'll realize a mistake was made and then face an expensive program to try to build what is needed.

It's a ridiculous situation that will have easy to predict results. That 10,000 home development in Rhome by the US-287/TX-114 junction just on its own should be setting off alarm bells at TX DOT. Never mind all the ancillary development that will ride in on that project's coat tails.

BTW, going westbound on TX-114 into northbound US-287 is not a fun junction. It's quite an odd, downhill curve going into US-287. The experience is kind of scary at night. TX DOT will have to add more lanes to both roads and do a little calming on those curves. It's not quite as bad as the TX-511 split with US-287 in Sunset just South of Bowie. TX DOT recently fixed that junction. Previously, if you were driving in the right lane on US-287 (and doing so at night) and not paying close attention US-287 would suddenly fall off to the left under a bridge. And you'd find yourself doing 75mph (or more) up a short off-ramp up onto a dinky 2 lane road! I guess enough crashes happened to make TX DOT remedy that situation.

Quote from: US-175At the I-35W/TX 114 interchange, I guess short of doing ramps like the recent EB TX 114-to-SB TX 121 elevated one over the 2 car dealerships in Grapevine, the only other option at this point is shifting the ramps footprint slightly north, even though those latest restaurant/retail/whatever additions (SW corner, not counting Buc-ee's) should have gone somewhere else nearby.  It is so amazing to see what that intersection has become since the Speedway was built.

I still remember the I-35W/TX-114 intersection before the speedway was built. There was hardly anything out there except bushes and trees. Texas Motor Speedway just on its own was a staggering project; that's as big as any racing facility in the nation. Add Buc-ee's, the Tanger Outlets, a bunch of restaurants and other stores. Hotels and golf courses are sprouting up around there. If development keeps going at this pace we'll start seeing office towers.

A volleyball connection with thru freeway main lanes for both TX-114 and I-35W will be better than nothing. But nevertheless, there is going to be way too much surface level traffic just related to the businesses at the TX-114 and I-35W intersection to have that mix in with traffic just trying to move to/from TX-114 and I-35W at street level. TX DOT has to figure out some way how to build flyover connectors for all the interchange movements between TX-114 and I-35W.

I noticed that long ramp that goes over the car dealerships in Grapevine has really tall fencing. And the car lots below have large tent structures and other things to protect the vehicle inventory below from objects thrown from vehicles above. I can imagine TX DOT taking this idea a step farther: build a flyover ramp that spans over the top of commercial buildings and parking lots, but build the ramp with tall walls and maybe even a cap. I don't know how well tall chain link fences work on flyover ramps just on their own.

-- US 175 --

I thought the blue tarp covers at car dealerships were to protect cars from hail.  I guess they don't want anyone chunking rocks at them, either.

rte66man

Quote from: -- US 175 -- on March 10, 2021, 04:28:34 AM
I thought the blue tarp covers at car dealerships were to protect cars from hail.  I guess they don't want anyone chunking rocks at them, either.

The dealers here in OKC have to deal with birds using the underside as perches and nests. The amount of bird crap on the cards is frightening. May have hired a cleaning company to come in twice a day to clean it off the cars.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

MaxConcrete

This project was officially dedicated today. This is a surprise to me, because when I drove through the area less than a year ago, there was a lot of work to be done.

https://twitter.com/webberllc/status/1671219848678981632





www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

rte66man

When I was through last Friday, they had 2/3 of it already striped and were pouring some Jersey barriers and a bridge railing. I have to be back in 10 days and will be thrilled that it is open.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

thisdj78

Quote from: rte66man on June 21, 2023, 01:59:42 PM
When I was through last Friday, they had 2/3 of it already striped and were pouring some Jersey barriers and a bridge railing. I have to be back in 10 days and will be thrilled that it is open.

I drove northbound on it Tuesday. There was an accident at the former north end of the express lanes so I didn't get on it until past Heritage Trace Pkwy. As someone who drives to OKC often, I'm glad to see it open as that area is usually my only choke point.



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