Control Cities

[HighwayStar]

, and thus any existing counterexamples are simply cases where the control city should be re-assigned.

Disagree.

Question. What should I-40's control city be south of Raleigh and I-95?

Wilmington.

The question was directed at HighwayStar.

K. I guess he would sign Burgaw.

Not necessarily. I-40 reaches Wilmington substantially enough that it might qualify, particularly because it does not dead end and is far enough into the city to call that an acceptable level of service. It was built as designed as far as I am aware, which helps its case.

I-40 ends north of Wilmington city limits. You cannot follow I-40 into the city. You have to use US-117. 

As I have said repeatedly, city limits are not a basis that should be used when determining control city status.
There are a number of reasons for this, not least that city limits are a political boundary, which are sometimes close to the city, and sometimes far from it. Moreover, a road can enter the city limits without meaningfully serving the city, common for large cities, or you can have a road that never actually enters the city limits but because the city is small still provides meaningful service as intended.

[Roadgeekteen]

, and thus any existing counterexamples are simply cases where the control city should be re-assigned.

Disagree.

Question. What should I-40's control city be south of Raleigh and I-95?

Wilmington.

The question was directed at HighwayStar.

K. I guess he would sign Burgaw.

Not necessarily. I-40 reaches Wilmington substantially enough that it might qualify, particularly because it does not dead end and is far enough into the city to call that an acceptable level of service. It was built as designed as far as I am aware, which helps its case.

I-40 ends north of Wilmington city limits. You cannot follow I-40 into the city. You have to use US-117. 

As I have said repeatedly, city limits are not a basis that should be used when determining control city status.
There are a number of reasons for this, not least that city limits are a political boundary, which are sometimes close to the city, and sometimes far from it. Moreover, a road can enter the city limits without meaningfully serving the city, common for large cities, or you can have a road that never actually enters the city limits but because the city is small still provides meaningful service as intended.

What is your definition of meaningful?

[Flint1979]

, and thus any existing counterexamples are simply cases where the control city should be re-assigned.

Disagree.

Question. What should I-40's control city be south of Raleigh and I-95?

Wilmington.

The question was directed at HighwayStar.

K. I guess he would sign Burgaw.

Not necessarily. I-40 reaches Wilmington substantially enough that it might qualify, particularly because it does not dead end and is far enough into the city to call that an acceptable level of service. It was built as designed as far as I am aware, which helps its case.

I-40 ends north of Wilmington city limits. You cannot follow I-40 into the city. You have to use US-117. 

As I have said repeatedly, city limits are not a basis that should be used when determining control city status.
There are a number of reasons for this, not least that city limits are a political boundary, which are sometimes close to the city, and sometimes far from it. Moreover, a road can enter the city limits without meaningfully serving the city, common for large cities, or you can have a road that never actually enters the city limits but because the city is small still provides meaningful service as intended.

Keep repeating it some more because that is a ridiculous comment. Baltimore being the control city on I-70 EB makes more sense than any other city or location. For the 500th time I-70 is heading in the direction of Baltimore, it ends before it gets there and has other routes to take you there.

Should Ann Arbor and Toledo not be used on US-23 just because it skirts the city limits of the city? I guess Saginaw shouldn't be used on I-75 since I-75 never enters the city of Saginaw. Oh and another one I-69 shouldn't use Lansing anymore since I-69 never enters the city of Lansing even though the GM Delta Plant is actually inside the city limits of Lansing. And according to this logic Memphis shouldn't be used on I-57 even though there really isn't any other city to use. I-57 is a long distance bypass of I-55 so Memphis indeed should be used.

[US 89]

Salina would make more sense than Green River, it's almost three times bigger than Green River.

Salina is also further away.

If you're skipping Green River, the appropriate choice would be Richfield, which is three times larger than Salina and only 15 miles further west. Richfield is the largest city within something like a 90 mile radius, so it's a significant regional hub and a decent choice for farther away control signage.   

The problem you run into in and west of Grand Jct is that over half of I-70 westbound traffic exits at US 6 towards Price and the Wasatch Front. The last point on 70 common to both destinations is Green River - and since that's a well known waypoint, why not just use that? It doesn't necessarily have to be a huge city - just someplace that will help people in wayfinding. Granted there's a good chance the average person in Colorado may not be as familiar with Green River as somebody in Utah, which is why I don't at all mind Colorado's use of a "control state" in this situation.

[Roadgeekteen]

Salina would make more sense than Green River, it's almost three times bigger than Green River.

Salina is also further away.

If you're skipping Green River, the appropriate choice would be Richfield, which is three times larger than Salina and only 15 miles further west. Richfield is the largest city within something like a 90 mile radius, so it's a significant regional hub and a decent choice for farther away control signage.   

The problem you run into in and west of Grand Jct is that over half of I-70 westbound traffic exits at US 6 towards Price and the Wasatch Front. The last point on 70 common to both destinations is Green River - and since that's a well known waypoint, why not just use that? It doesn't necessarily have to be a huge city - just someplace that will help people in wayfinding. Granted there's a good chance the average person in Colorado may not be as familiar with Green River as somebody in Utah, which is why I don't at all mind Colorado's use of a "control state" in this situation.

This is one place I would support using a control state.

[Flint1979]

I was in Richmond, IN earlier and just drove to Dayton, OH. Google Maps has Columbus as the control city for EB I-70 while the signs have Dayton as the control city. I can understand using Dayton since I-70 connects to Dayton International Airport and I-75 SB.

Coming off of I-675 at the southern terminus the control cities for I-75 are Cincinnati and Toledo. I think by that point Toledo should have stopped being used and Dayton should be the control city. Where I-675 and I-75 meet is south of Dayton you are not into Dayton on I-75 at that point, the city limits are about 8 miles north of there.

[hbelkins]

I was in Richmond, IN earlier and just drove to Dayton, OH. Google Maps has Columbus as the control city for EB I-70 while the signs have Dayton as the control city. I can understand using Dayton since I-70 connects to Dayton International Airport and I-75 SB.

Coming off of I-675 at the southern terminus the control cities for I-75 are Cincinnati and Toledo. I think by that point Toledo should have stopped being used and Dayton should be the control city. Where I-675 and I-75 meet is south of Dayton you are not into Dayton on I-75 at that point, the city limits are about 8 miles north of there.

As you probably know, Dayton is a recent addition. It used to be omitted at both C-bus and Indy.

The terminus of I-675 might as well be Dayton, even though it's not within the city limits. It's Metro Dayton.

[tdindy88]

I was in Richmond, IN earlier and just drove to Dayton, OH. Google Maps has Columbus as the control city for EB I-70 while the signs have Dayton as the control city. I can understand using Dayton since I-70 connects to Dayton International Airport and I-75 SB.

Coming off of I-675 at the southern terminus the control cities for I-75 are Cincinnati and Toledo. I think by that point Toledo should have stopped being used and Dayton should be the control city. Where I-675 and I-75 meet is south of Dayton you are not into Dayton on I-75 at that point, the city limits are about 8 miles north of there.

Google Maps might just be going off on what the nearest highway sign says. I'm guessing you got onto I-70 at US 40. That interchange still has Columbus as the control city since it is an older sign that hasn't been replaced yet. I'm also guessing that if you would have gotten on at US 27 Google would have been telling you to head toward Dayton.

[SkyPesos]

^
From what I see in Richmond, IN on GSV, the US 40 and IN 227 interchanges have Columbus as the control city for EB I-70, US 27 have Dayton, and US 35 have both Dayton and Columbus. The Columbus signs are all button copy, so they're much older. My guess is that the Columbus sign(s) got replaced with a newer one that said Dayton recently, and Google Maps haven't caught onto it yet.

[Flint1979]

I was in Richmond, IN earlier and just drove to Dayton, OH. Google Maps has Columbus as the control city for EB I-70 while the signs have Dayton as the control city. I can understand using Dayton since I-70 connects to Dayton International Airport and I-75 SB.

Coming off of I-675 at the southern terminus the control cities for I-75 are Cincinnati and Toledo. I think by that point Toledo should have stopped being used and Dayton should be the control city. Where I-675 and I-75 meet is south of Dayton you are not into Dayton on I-75 at that point, the city limits are about 8 miles north of there.

Google Maps might just be going off on what the nearest highway sign says. I'm guessing you got onto I-70 at US 40. That interchange still has Columbus as the control city since it is an older sign that hasn't been replaced yet. I'm also guessing that if you would have gotten on at US 27 Google would have been telling you to head toward Dayton.

I got on I-70 from IN-227.

[Flint1979]

^
From what I see in Richmond, IN on GSV, the US 40 and IN 227 interchanges have Columbus as the control city for EB I-70, US 27 have Dayton, and US 35 have both Dayton and Columbus. The Columbus signs are all button copy, so they're much older. My guess is that the Columbus sign(s) got replaced with a newer one that said Dayton recently, and Google Maps haven't caught onto it yet.

That's the interchange I just went through they have Dayton only at least going northbound on IN-227.

[Flint1979]

^
From what I see in Richmond, IN on GSV, the US 40 and IN 227 interchanges have Columbus as the control city for EB I-70, US 27 have Dayton, and US 35 have both Dayton and Columbus. The Columbus signs are all button copy, so they're much older. My guess is that the Columbus sign(s) got replaced with a newer one that said Dayton recently, and Google Maps haven't caught onto it yet.

The image from the GSV is from June 2018. There is a new sign there that only says Dayton on it. I had to go look at the GSV to see what it showed. Coming SB there is a GSV from May 2019 showing Columbus as well. I know for a fact that it says Dayton now though.

[roadman65]

I was in Richmond, IN earlier and just drove to Dayton, OH. Google Maps has Columbus as the control city for EB I-70 while the signs have Dayton as the control city. I can understand using Dayton since I-70 connects to Dayton International Airport and I-75 SB.

Coming off of I-675 at the southern terminus the control cities for I-75 are Cincinnati and Toledo. I think by that point Toledo should have stopped being used and Dayton should be the control city. Where I-675 and I-75 meet is south of Dayton you are not into Dayton on I-75 at that point, the city limits are about 8 miles north of there.

What about KDOT using Des Moines on I-35  before Kansas City is even reached? Signs at Olathe already use Des Moines and KC is still yet to come. Ditto on I-70 East nearby where once the freeway reaches the tolled endpoint St. Louis begins as control city.

I-275 in Florida only has Tampa SB from its start as all SB ramps use St. Petersburg even north of Downtown.

[Roadgeekteen]

I was in Richmond, IN earlier and just drove to Dayton, OH. Google Maps has Columbus as the control city for EB I-70 while the signs have Dayton as the control city. I can understand using Dayton since I-70 connects to Dayton International Airport and I-75 SB.

Coming off of I-675 at the southern terminus the control cities for I-75 are Cincinnati and Toledo. I think by that point Toledo should have stopped being used and Dayton should be the control city. Where I-675 and I-75 meet is south of Dayton you are not into Dayton on I-75 at that point, the city limits are about 8 miles north of there.

What about KDOT using Des Moines on I-35  before Kansas City is even reached? Signs at Olathe already use Des Moines and KC is still yet to come. Ditto on I-70 East nearby where once the freeway reaches the tolled endpoint St. Louis begins as control city.

I-275 in Florida only has Tampa SB from its start as all SB ramps use St. Petersburg even north of Downtown.

I would use dual KC/Des Moines or St. Louis.

[Scott5114]

What about KDOT using Des Moines on I-35  before Kansas City is even reached? Signs at Olathe already use Des Moines and KC is still yet to come. Ditto on I-70 East nearby where once the freeway reaches the tolled endpoint St. Louis begins as control city.

The reason why I-70 east changes to St Louis after the K-7 interchange is because east of K-7, I-70 is in Kansas City, Kansas. It would be confusing to have a sign pointing the way to "Kansas City" when you are in Kansas City, and I-435 north at that point also goes to Kansas City, KS. (Yes, when people outside the metro say "Kansas City" they mean KCMO, but if you are in northeast Kansas and especially in Wyandotte County, "Kansas City" often means KCK, or both of them together.)

"St Louis" is a better control for eastbound I-70 in Wyandotte County because not only is it more obviously east of you than "Kansas City" at that point, but makes it clear that the road goes to Missouri, and thus also implies KCMO without outright saying it.

Starting Des Moines in Olathe is a bit harder to justify, because I-35 still goes to both KCK and KCMO at that point. However, I-435 west in Lenexa also goes to KCK, so that might be a good place to make the changeover.

[SkyPesos]

^ and there's the issue of large city limit areas...

[SSOWorld]

Airport is a control city

[Roadgeekteen]

Airport is a control city

It's a control destination. I would like them to put the airport name on the sign however.

[SSOWorld]

Airport is a control city

It's a control destination. I would like them to put the airport name on the sign however.

many airport names can't fit on signs now.

[SkyPesos]

Airport is a control city

It's a control destination. I would like them to put the airport name on the sign however.

many airport names can't fit on signs now.

How about "[IATA code] Airport"  for those with a long name, like "CVG Airport"  as a control for I-275 in KY? O'hare, Dulles, Logan, Seatac, etc could continued to be called as is on road signs because of their short name.

[Roadgeekteen]

Airport is a control city

It's a control destination. I would like them to put the airport name on the sign however.

many airport names can't fit on signs now.

How about "[IATA code] Airport"  for those with a long name, like "CVG Airport"  as a control for I-275 in KY? O'hare, Dulles, Logan, Seatac, etc could continued to be called as is on road signs because of their short name.

That could work.

[hotdogPi]

Are there any airports with confusing codes, such as CVS, MLB, CNN, CDC, FBI, ETC, etc. in the United States?

[thenetwork]

Are there any airports with confusing codes, such as CVS, MLB, CNN, CDC, FBI, ETC, etc. in the United States?

I would consider Denver (DEN) as confusing to many, only because most people (at least the locals) calls the 25-year old airport by the three-letter DIA -- Denver International Airport.

Just by force of habit, I have tried to book a flight from DIA, then realizing I have to use DEN.

And then you have CAK, which the locals call it the Akron-Canton Airport, while the unfamiliar outsiders call it the Canton-AKron Airport.

[US 89]

Are there any airports with confusing codes, such as CVS, MLB, CNN, CDC, FBI, ETC, etc. in the United States?

CDC is the code for Cedar City Regional Airport, which has a couple Delta Connection flights to SLC a day. It is signed from I-15 as "Cedar City Airport".

[Roadgeekteen]

Are there any airports with confusing codes, such as CVS, MLB, CNN, CDC, FBI, ETC, etc. in the United States?

I would consider Denver (DEN) as confusing to many, only because most people (at least the locals) calls the 25-year old airport by the three-letter DIA. 

Just by force of habit, I have tried to book a flight from DIA, then realizing I have to use DEN.

Just sign "Denver airport"