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Control Cities

Started by geoking111, February 10, 2009, 07:16:16 PM

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Flint1979

Each state chooses the control cities. There is no population or distance away requirement for a control city so a small city can and is used as control cities. Some states only use cities within that state until the last city in that state is reached then a city from another state takes over.

Like for WB I-94 starting in Detroit MDOT uses Chicago instead of Michigan cities like Ann Arbor, Jackson, Battle Creek and Kalamazoo even though those cities are used at secondary interchanges Chicago appears at major interchanges like with I-75, I-96, I-275, US-23, I-69 and so on.


hbelkins

Richmond, Ind., also has a rather dense downtown, as I remember from driving through it on US 27, but no one is going to confuse it with a major crossroads community or a sought-after destination.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Flint1979

Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2021, 09:19:36 AM
Richmond, Ind., also has a rather dense downtown, as I remember from driving through it on US 27, but no one is going to confuse it with a major crossroads community or a sought-after destination.
I spent some time walking around downtown Richmond in June when I was there and it's pretty dense for not that big of a city. But I don't think it should be a control city though, Dayton isn't too far east and is good enough and Indianapolis heading west is good.

hbelkins

Quote from: Flint1979 on November 05, 2021, 04:19:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2021, 09:19:36 AM
Richmond, Ind., also has a rather dense downtown, as I remember from driving through it on US 27, but no one is going to confuse it with a major crossroads community or a sought-after destination.
I spent some time walking around downtown Richmond in June when I was there and it's pretty dense for not that big of a city. But I don't think it should be a control city though, Dayton isn't too far east and is good enough and Indianapolis heading west is good.

That was kinda my point. Salina isn't a control city because it has a dense downtown, but because it's a major intersection.

Does Richmond still have Tom Raper RV? They used to do saturation advertising on Lexington television stations.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Flint1979

Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2021, 08:39:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 05, 2021, 04:19:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2021, 09:19:36 AM
Richmond, Ind., also has a rather dense downtown, as I remember from driving through it on US 27, but no one is going to confuse it with a major crossroads community or a sought-after destination.
I spent some time walking around downtown Richmond in June when I was there and it's pretty dense for not that big of a city. But I don't think it should be a control city though, Dayton isn't too far east and is good enough and Indianapolis heading west is good.

That was kinda my point. Salina isn't a control city because it has a dense downtown, but because it's a major intersection.

Does Richmond still have Tom Raper RV? They used to do saturation advertising on Lexington television stations.
It's now called Camping World of Richmond.

thenetwork

Quote from: Flint1979 on November 05, 2021, 11:25:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2021, 08:39:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 05, 2021, 04:19:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2021, 09:19:36 AM
Richmond, Ind., also has a rather dense downtown, as I remember from driving through it on US 27, but no one is going to confuse it with a major crossroads community or a sought-after destination.
I spent some time walking around downtown Richmond in June when I was there and it's pretty dense for not that big of a city. But I don't think it should be a control city though, Dayton isn't too far east and is good enough and Indianapolis heading west is good.

That was kinda my point. Salina isn't a control city because it has a dense downtown, but because it's a major intersection.

Does Richmond still have Tom Raper RV? They used to do saturation advertising on Lexington television stations.
It's now called Camping World of Richmond.

I think their TV advertising area was huge.  At least as far north and east as Cleveland, which is about 3-4 hours away.

Flint1979

Quote from: thenetwork on November 06, 2021, 04:47:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 05, 2021, 11:25:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2021, 08:39:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 05, 2021, 04:19:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2021, 09:19:36 AM
Richmond, Ind., also has a rather dense downtown, as I remember from driving through it on US 27, but no one is going to confuse it with a major crossroads community or a sought-after destination.
I spent some time walking around downtown Richmond in June when I was there and it's pretty dense for not that big of a city. But I don't think it should be a control city though, Dayton isn't too far east and is good enough and Indianapolis heading west is good.

That was kinda my point. Salina isn't a control city because it has a dense downtown, but because it's a major intersection.

Does Richmond still have Tom Raper RV? They used to do saturation advertising on Lexington television stations.
It's now called Camping World of Richmond.

I think their TV advertising area was huge.  At least as far north and east as Cleveland, which is about 3-4 hours away.
It was all over Indiana I know that.

CoreySamson

Buc-ee's and QuikTrip fanboy. Clincher of FM roads. Proponent of the TX U-turn.

My Route Log
My Clinches

Now on mobrule and Travel Mapping!

The Nature Boy

Quote from: CoreySamson on November 11, 2021, 05:54:17 PM
Found an interesting graphic on Reddit about control cities in the US:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/ql3nqu/oc_highlighting_the_cities_that_are_destinations/

Call me a road snob but how do you live along I-75 and only recently discover that it went to Florida?

Do people just grow up and never look at a map?

Later in the thread, OP posted a link where you can query your city directly. Very interesting stuff: https://observablehq.com/@ambassadors/mapping-the-cities-of-us-highway-signs

SkyPesos

#1359
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 01, 2021, 08:58:17 PM
Later in the thread, OP posted a link where you can query your city directly. Very interesting stuff: https://observablehq.com/@ambassadors/mapping-the-cities-of-us-highway-signs
There are some inaccuracies in that map (like St Louis wasn't marked as a location with a control city of Tulsa), but it's good enough for me. I'm impressed that this site exists in the first place.

Here's this forum's favorite control city, for those that are interested:

ran4sh

The map is based on Google's data (however they get it) so it's Google's information that is not necessarily accurate.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
Champions - UGA FB '21 '22 - Atlanta Braves '95 '21 - Atlanta MLS '18

ilpt4u

#1361
St Louis doesn't light up at all on I-24 in Kentucky, nor for most of I-70 west of Indianapolis in Indiana and Illinois

Indianapolis has some glaring misses also: I-70 between Dayton and Indy; I-65 between Louisville and Indy

Flint1979

#1362
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 01, 2021, 09:34:11 PM
St Louis doesn't light up at all on I-24 in Kentucky, nor for most of I-70 west of Indianapolis in Indiana and Illinois

Indianapolis has some glaring misses also: I-70 between Dayton and Indy; I-65 between Louisville and Indy
I-24 in Kentucky uses Interstate 57 as the control city I thought at least.

After looking I do see St. Louis at the US-68 terminus, it's Illinois that uses Interstate 57.

hbelkins

Quote from: Flint1979 on December 02, 2021, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 01, 2021, 09:34:11 PM
St Louis doesn't light up at all on I-24 in Kentucky, nor for most of I-70 west of Indianapolis in Indiana and Illinois

Indianapolis has some glaring misses also: I-70 between Dayton and Indy; I-65 between Louisville and Indy
I-24 in Kentucky uses Interstate 57 as the control city I thought at least.

After looking I do see St. Louis at the US-68 terminus, it's Illinois that uses Interstate 57.

Kentucky changed from St. Louis to Paducah sometime prior to the late 1990s. There was a straggler sign on one of the intersecting routes that still said St. Louis way back in the day, but it was Paducah and Nashville all the way from the state line to US 68. Kentucky doesn't really acknowledge Clarksville in the same way that Tennessee doesn't acknowledge Paducah.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Flint1979

Quote from: hbelkins on December 02, 2021, 11:29:34 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 02, 2021, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 01, 2021, 09:34:11 PM
St Louis doesn't light up at all on I-24 in Kentucky, nor for most of I-70 west of Indianapolis in Indiana and Illinois

Indianapolis has some glaring misses also: I-70 between Dayton and Indy; I-65 between Louisville and Indy
I-24 in Kentucky uses Interstate 57 as the control city I thought at least.

After looking I do see St. Louis at the US-68 terminus, it's Illinois that uses Interstate 57.

Kentucky changed from St. Louis to Paducah sometime prior to the late 1990s. There was a straggler sign on one of the intersecting routes that still said St. Louis way back in the day, but it was Paducah and Nashville all the way from the state line to US 68. Kentucky doesn't really acknowledge Clarksville in the same way that Tennessee doesn't acknowledge Paducah.
I spent some time in the Paducah area about a year ago and can say that it's a decent city for a control city and so is Clarksville. But then again Clarksville wasn't nearly as big as it is today 50 years ago. I'd say the control city list needs to be updated and St. Louis should be taken off. Even with Illinois only using Interstate 57 as the control city, that actually makes more sense considering I-24 ends there and there isn't a city there. Maybe Marion or Mount Vernon but not St. Louis, the only reason St. Louis would make any sense is because I-24 is part of the corridor between Atlanta and St. Louis.

frankenroad

Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 01, 2021, 08:58:17 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on November 11, 2021, 05:54:17 PM
Found an interesting graphic on Reddit about control cities in the US:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/ql3nqu/oc_highlighting_the_cities_that_are_destinations/

Call me a road snob but how do you live along I-75 and only recently discover that it went to Florida?

Do people just grow up and never look at a map?

Later in the thread, OP posted a link where you can query your city directly. Very interesting stuff: https://observablehq.com/@ambassadors/mapping-the-cities-of-us-highway-signs

I would wonder the same thing.   However, a few years ago, I had business associates fly into Cincinnati from Atlanta.  As I was taking them to their hotel, we got on I-75, and one of them asked, "Is this the same I-75 we have in Atlanta?"   Bless her heart!
2di's clinched: 44, 66, 68, 71, 72, 74, 78, 83, 84(east), 86(east), 88(east), 96

Highways I've lived on M-43, M-185, US-127

westerninterloper

Quote from: hbelkins on December 02, 2021, 11:29:34 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 02, 2021, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 01, 2021, 09:34:11 PM
St Louis doesn't light up at all on I-24 in Kentucky, nor for most of I-70 west of Indianapolis in Indiana and Illinois

Indianapolis has some glaring misses also: I-70 between Dayton and Indy; I-65 between Louisville and Indy
I-24 in Kentucky uses Interstate 57 as the control city I thought at least.

After looking I do see St. Louis at the US-68 terminus, it's Illinois that uses Interstate 57.

Kentucky changed from St. Louis to Paducah sometime prior to the late 1990s. There was a straggler sign on one of the intersecting routes that still said St. Louis way back in the day, but it was Paducah and Nashville all the way from the state line to US 68. Kentucky doesn't really acknowledge Clarksville in the same way that Tennessee doesn't acknowledge Paducah.

St. Louis is also missing I-70 across Missouri; STL probably has one of the farthest reaches of any city in the middle or eastern part of the US, from Chicago, Indianapolis, Louisville, Memphis, Tulsa and Kansas City.
Nostalgia: Indiana's State Religion

hbelkins

Quote from: frankenroad on December 03, 2021, 12:18:11 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 01, 2021, 08:58:17 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on November 11, 2021, 05:54:17 PM
Found an interesting graphic on Reddit about control cities in the US:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/ql3nqu/oc_highlighting_the_cities_that_are_destinations/

Call me a road snob but how do you live along I-75 and only recently discover that it went to Florida?

Do people just grow up and never look at a map?

Later in the thread, OP posted a link where you can query your city directly. Very interesting stuff: https://observablehq.com/@ambassadors/mapping-the-cities-of-us-highway-signs

I would wonder the same thing.   However, a few years ago, I had business associates fly into Cincinnati from Atlanta.  As I was taking them to their hotel, we got on I-75, and one of them asked, "Is this the same I-75 we have in Atlanta?"   Bless her heart!

Conversely, on my family's first vacation to the Outer Banks, and keep in mind this was back in the late 1960s or early 1970s, when we encountered US 421 in North Carolina, I knew that I could take that route back northwest and end up within about 30 miles of my home.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

SkyPesos

#1368
Quote from: frankenroad on December 03, 2021, 12:18:11 PM

I would wonder the same thing.   However, a few years ago, I had business associates fly into Cincinnati from Atlanta.  As I was taking them to their hotel, we got on I-75, and one of them asked, "Is this the same I-75 we have in Atlanta?"   Bless her heart!

On the flipside, you would be wrong if you live in Philadelphia, fly into Denver for some trip, and think the I-76 in both cities are the same.

Though I'll admit, one of my first roadgeek moments is wondering why there's an I-270 in Columbus and DC when there's already one in St Louis (where I lived back then).

westerninterloper

Proposed New Control Points for Indianapolis:
I-70W: Terre Haute, St. Louis, Rocky Mountains
I-70E: Richmond, Dayton, Baltimore, Atlantic Ocean
I-74E: Rushville, Cincinnati
I-74W: Crawfordsville, Quad Cities
I-65N: Lafayette, The Region, Chicago, Great Lakes
I-65S: Columbus IN, Louisville, Nashville, Gulf of Mexico
I-69N: Anderson, Fort Wayne, Canada
I-69S: Bloomington, Evansville, Mississippi Delta
Nostalgia: Indiana's State Religion

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: westerninterloper on December 03, 2021, 03:01:20 PM
Proposed New Control Points for Indianapolis:
I-70W: Terre Haute, St. Louis, Rocky Mountains
I-70E: Richmond, Dayton, Baltimore, Atlantic Ocean
I-74E: Rushville, Cincinnati
I-74W: Crawfordsville, Quad Cities
I-65N: Lafayette, The Region, Chicago, Great Lakes
I-65S: Columbus IN, Louisville, Nashville, Gulf of Mexico
I-69N: Anderson, Fort Wayne, Canada
I-69S: Bloomington, Evansville, Mississippi Delta
These are reasonable until the last ones... also Richmond Indiana is not big enough to justify control city status
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Flint1979

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 03, 2021, 03:02:50 PM
Quote from: westerninterloper on December 03, 2021, 03:01:20 PM
Proposed New Control Points for Indianapolis:
I-70W: Terre Haute, St. Louis, Rocky Mountains
I-70E: Richmond, Dayton, Baltimore, Atlantic Ocean
I-74E: Rushville, Cincinnati
I-74W: Crawfordsville, Quad Cities
I-65N: Lafayette, The Region, Chicago, Great Lakes
I-65S: Columbus IN, Louisville, Nashville, Gulf of Mexico
I-69N: Anderson, Fort Wayne, Canada
I-69S: Bloomington, Evansville, Mississippi Delta
These are reasonable until the last ones... also Richmond Indiana is not big enough to justify control city status
None of them are reasonable and yes Richmond, Indiana is big enough to justify control city status, there is no rule on how big a city has to be.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 03, 2021, 03:02:50 PM
Quote from: westerninterloper on December 03, 2021, 03:01:20 PM
Proposed New Control Points for Indianapolis:
I-70W: Terre Haute, St. Louis, Rocky Mountains
I-70E: Richmond, Dayton, Baltimore, Atlantic Ocean
I-74E: Rushville, Cincinnati
I-74W: Crawfordsville, Quad Cities
I-65N: Lafayette, The Region, Chicago, Great Lakes
I-65S: Columbus IN, Louisville, Nashville, Gulf of Mexico
I-69N: Anderson, Fort Wayne, Canada
I-69S: Bloomington, Evansville, Mississippi Delta
These are reasonable until the last ones... also Richmond Indiana is not big enough to justify control city status

It's not so much about Richmond's size as it it proximity to Dayton. Might was well go with the more major city.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

ran4sh

Quote from: Flint1979 on December 03, 2021, 06:35:51 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 02, 2021, 11:29:34 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 02, 2021, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 01, 2021, 09:34:11 PM
St Louis doesn't light up at all on I-24 in Kentucky, nor for most of I-70 west of Indianapolis in Indiana and Illinois

Indianapolis has some glaring misses also: I-70 between Dayton and Indy; I-65 between Louisville and Indy
I-24 in Kentucky uses Interstate 57 as the control city I thought at least.

After looking I do see St. Louis at the US-68 terminus, it's Illinois that uses Interstate 57.

Kentucky changed from St. Louis to Paducah sometime prior to the late 1990s. There was a straggler sign on one of the intersecting routes that still said St. Louis way back in the day, but it was Paducah and Nashville all the way from the state line to US 68. Kentucky doesn't really acknowledge Clarksville in the same way that Tennessee doesn't acknowledge Paducah.
I spent some time in the Paducah area about a year ago and can say that it's a decent city for a control city and so is Clarksville. But then again Clarksville wasn't nearly as big as it is today 50 years ago. I'd say the control city list needs to be updated and St. Louis should be taken off. Even with Illinois only using Interstate 57 as the control city, that actually makes more sense considering I-24 ends there and there isn't a city there. Maybe Marion or Mount Vernon but not St. Louis, the only reason St. Louis would make any sense is because I-24 is part of the corridor between Atlanta and St. Louis.

That's ridiculous. There is clearly a significant amount of traffic that reaches St Louis via I-24, so there's no reason to remove it as a control city. If anything Paducah and Clarksville should be removed.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
Champions - UGA FB '21 '22 - Atlanta Braves '95 '21 - Atlanta MLS '18

ran4sh

Size by itself is never a good determination for control cities. That would easily lead to some parts of the country changing control city every 20-50 miles while in the West and other less-populated region the same city would be used for hundreds of miles.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
Champions - UGA FB '21 '22 - Atlanta Braves '95 '21 - Atlanta MLS '18



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