Those slow drivers in the left lane

[agentsteel53]

OK, if passing on the right is bad and/or illegal, then what do you recommend if some yutz is in the leftmost lane going 20 mph less than everyone else?

short of a disintegrator pistol, pass them on the right of course!  it is a necessary evil. 

[bugo]

Passing on the right is bad.  Being passed on the right is worse.

OK, if passing on the right is bad and/or illegal, then what do you recommend if some yutz is in the leftmost lane going 20 mph less than everyone else?

Get right on their ass and flash your lights and honk your horn.  And when they don't move out of the way, pass them on the right.

[bugo]

I agree that left hand exits are not a good idea. But we are stuck with them until the money is available to rebuild the interchanges.
but they are fairly rare, and most of the left-lane sitters are not looking for an exit as much as just camped out and oblivious to their surroundings.

One case where this happens is on a 4 lane expressway when somebody is making a left turn.  Another reason why expressways are dangerous.

yeah, a lot of states have random laws.  Isn't it Ohio where it's illegal to make a U-turn?  I try to obey the most sensible convex hull of all states laws.  I slow down and move over a lane in all states when I see an emergency vehicle on the shoulder.  I drive on the left side only when passing in all states.  etc.

I get over if anybody is on the shoulder.  Why are cops special?  

[agentsteel53]

I get over if anybody is on the shoulder.  Why are cops special?  

I try my best for everyone but I will give a special effort for an emergency vehicle.  I've pulled over for abandoned parked cars and felt pretty silly thereafter!

[agentsteel53]

Get right on their ass and flash your lights and honk your horn.  And when they don't move out of the way, pass them on the right.

people in the US seem to be oblivious to having the lights flashed at them.  I've had people slam on the brakes before.  I've figured out that the easiest, sanest solution is to just leave them in the dust and never think about their poor worthless souls again.

[mightyace]

I get over if anybody is on the shoulder.  Why are cops special?  

I try to do that, too.  If anything, ordinary citizens need it more as they are less likely to be careful while moving around on the shoulder.

Get right on their ass and flash your lights and honk your horn.  And when they don't move out of the way, pass them on the right.

people in the US seem to be oblivious to having the lights flashed at them.  I've had people slam on the brakes before.  I've figured out that the easiest, sanest solution is to just leave them in the dust and never think about their poor worthless souls again.

Agreed.

On the rare occasion that I've had my lights flashed at me, it's usually some yahoo who wants to go 10-20 mph faster than anyone else and wants me to move over when it's not safe.

[agentsteel53]

On the rare occasion that I've had my lights flashed at me, it's usually some yahoo who wants to go 10-20 mph faster than anyone else and wants me to move over when it's not safe.

I've had someone flash their lights (not just high beams - I mean turning the lights on and off, at night) while coming up behind me doing at least 140.  I had been in the left lane doing about 82 - I stayed in one place and let them pass me on the right.  No use trying to play "after you - no, after you" with that kind of maniac.

[bugo]

Get right on their ass and flash your lights and honk your horn.  And when they don't move out of the way, pass them on the right.

people in the US seem to be oblivious to having the lights flashed at them.

Except in Florida.  Florida drivers will flash their lights at you until you move.

[agentsteel53]

Except in Florida.  Florida drivers will flash their lights at you until you move.

Florida drivers will do a lot of things.  They will run a stop sign and then park in front of you and get out of the car to argue with you for daring to claim your right of way.

Miami should not be in any way construed as a representative example of civilization.

[Bickendan]

"So this is Miami. They can keep it."
-Big Trouble

I have a found memory of the Louisiana highway patrol pulling over a van that was driving slow in the left lane on I-20, backing traffic up because he was micropassing a string of semis in the left lane in his intent to obey the letter of the law (because there was a cop around!).

[vdeane]

Personally I drive five miles an hour over the limit, so I get very annoyed by the people driving 80 mph because they prevent me from passing the people going under the speed limit.

NY must have repealed keep right except to pass, because the driver's manual merely recommends passing on the left (btw, if you don't like passing on the right, don't EVER drive in Rochester), though the signs on the Thruway remain.

[iwishiwascanadian]

I just find it funny that on a four lane interstate (two lanes in each direction) most people keep right except to pass.  But whenever you add a additional lane, people avoid the right lane like it's the plague.  Whenever i'm on the road I notice that the right lane is empty whereas the left lane is packed and the middle lane is as well. 

[corco]

I just find it funny that on a four lane interstate (two lanes in each direction) most people keep right except to pass.  But whenever you add a additional lane, people avoid the right lane like it's the plague.  Whenever i'm on the road I notice that the right lane is empty whereas the left lane is packed and the middle lane is as well.

That's done on purpose. If there's 3+ lanes, the right lane become a collector/distributor/truck lane, while the middle is for general travel, with the left being used for passing. No reason for it to be used for general travel- there's usually only 3+ lanes in urban areas where there's lots of merging traffic.

In theory with more than three lanes, the right most lane should be a fairly slow lane primarily used for accelerating/decelerating/trucks, then as you move left the lanes should increase in speed until the leftmost lane, which is reserved for passing.

[Bickendan]

And, generally, traffic is busy enough that being in the right lane means you're getting slowed down by people merging that aren't going freeway speed.

[njroadhorse]

In theory with more than three lanes, the right most lane should be a fairly slow lane primarily used for accelerating/decelerating/trucks, then as you move left the lanes should increase in speed until the leftmost lane, which is reserved for passing.

Tell that to PennDOT, so that their freeways can be upgraded to 3 lanes all around.  Sheesh, I never get that frustrated with trucks until I get into Pennsylvania.

Actually, tell that to VDOT too regarding Interstate 81.

Back to the topic of drivers, I am generally that 75-80 guy, but I try to be as patient as possible with slow drivers.  But, if you're doing the speed limit in the left lane with a fast driver on your ass, and room to move over, do not be an idiot.  MOVE OVER!!!!!! 

[The Premier]

What would actually help is to have signs informing drivers that the left lane is for passing only, like what they did on the 3 lane sections of the Ohio Turnpike.

Get right on their ass and flash your lights and honk your horn.  And when they don't move out of the way, pass them on the right.

people in the US seem to be oblivious to having the lights flashed at them.

Except in Florida.  Florida drivers will flash their lights at you until you move.

In the event that someone's driving slow in the fast lane, put your hi-beams on and keep them on until they get out of the fast lane. OK, so it will probably blind them to the point of causing a crash, at least they will know that the next time they drive slow in the fast lane (around 55 MPH) they need to speed up.

[Jim]

Having done a ton of driving in the northeast, upper midwest, and the east coast over the last month, pretty much all of the annoying and dangerous driving practices I've read in this thread are very fresh in my mind.  Bottom line, if you're in the left lane and someone wants to pass you, get to the right as soon as you safely can do so.  Whether it's the law or not in a particular state, it makes sense to do it.

So many of the problems with our roads could be solved by making it a lot harder to get and keep a driver's license.  Some bad drivers would have to be better drivers; others simply could not get or keep a license.  Imagine how much less congestion there would be and how much more pleasant your driving experience would be if every idiot driver you encountered was on a bus or on foot instead.

[Troubleshooter]

What would actually help is to have signs informing drivers that the left lane is for passing only, like what they did on the 3 lane sections of the Ohio Turnpike.

The left lane should never be reserved for passing only. This is wrong thinking, and greatly reduces the capacity of the road.

people in the US seem to be oblivious to having the lights flashed at them.  I've had people slam on the brakes before.  I've figured out that the easiest, sanest solution is to just leave them in the dust and never think about their poor worthless souls again.

This is because flashing lights mean stop for emergency reasons to a current or former truck driver.

It is illegal in most states to flash headlights to either demand or give the right of way.

[corco]

The left lane should never be reserved for passing only. This is wrong thinking, and greatly reduces the capacity of the road.

Pretty much every traffic engineering study ever shows conclusively that traffic moves more efficiently and more safely when the left lane is used as a passing lane. Sure, you can fit more cars into a smaller area by having them fill both lanes, but you can get more cars through that smaller area faster in a left lane for passing model. It's also important to keep in mind that accidents are a terrible use of capacity- if there's not a fast lane and a slow lane, the fast cars will inevitably hit the slow cars (not assigning blame there, that's just an inevitability- there will always be cars going both slower and faster than the flow of traffic), which slows things up for everyone.


If you're interested in such studies, I'd first direct you to "A behavioral theory of multi-lane traffic flow," published in 2002. The Transportation Research Board has also published several related studies, all of which find that ideally, the keep right except to pass model is by far the best one. The issue right now is in educating drivers to make sure they realize that this is by far the most safe and efficient way to drive.

Another point to consider is that most of the road mileage in America is well under capacity, so even if it were a waste of capacity (which it is not), there's not much sense in worrying about wasting it at the expense of safety.

For a real world example, the speed unlimited portions of the Autobahn are a good example- if the left lane were not reserved for passing only, traffic would move far less efficiently and deaths would skyrocket because cars going above the speed of the flow of traffic would have no idea which lane the slower cars were in and would therefore either have to slow down significantly or risk death.

Now, it does seem on the surface that the keep right except to pass model fails in heavy traffic or gridlock. Sure, we need our capacity there. That said, the "keep right except to pass" philosophy is naturally in play there as well, although it manifests itself differently. Any schlamazel who has ever sat in heavy traffic knows that the only reason you'd cruise in the left lane in gridlock is because your exit isn't coming up any time soon. The natural human condition in traffic is "how can I get where I'm going quickly and without killing myself?" As a result, the human instinct is to move to the left lane in that traffic if one's exit is not coming up (ignoring left exits here- that obviously changes the entire dynamic) for two reasons:

1) to avoid the hassle of merging (as you said)
2) to get around, i.e. pass all those cars merging in!

Of course, anybody who has driven in traffic can tell you that's not always the case, and the right or middle lanes often move faster than the left lanes, but the reason the left lanes are crowded is that they are full of cars who want to PASS the other cars. That may not actually happen, but that's absolutely the intent. In heavy traffic, the human instinct to get as far away from the exiting lane as possible to move quickly is possibly the most obvious manifestation of "keep right except to pass" of them all. Capacity naturally fills in the left lane even under a keep right except to pass model because the cars in the left lane want to pass! They just can't because of the gridlock.


Real world example- the way you seem to think "keep right except to pass" would work (if it removes capacity so much) makes me picture a downtown rushhour an a 3 lane in each direction highway. On this highway, two lanes are full of thousands of cars stopped, while the third has a few rogue vehicles going 60 MPH. Is that logical? Is that possible? No. Several thousand of the thousands of cars would want to pass the slow cars, and would go into the left lane to pass, slowing up the left lane to the speed of the other two lanes. Capacity is filled, but the intent of the cars in the left lane is that they are passing the cars on the right. They may not be, but they certainly want to or as a function of nature they wouldn't be in the left lane. They are in the left lane to pass, they just can't pass yet.

This is why it works in more rural areas- it's intuitive. The people who fail to keep right except to pass violate intuition, which makes them dangerous.

As you continue to very confidently suggest an unconventional claim that goes against accepted knowledge, I would be quite interested to see a factual refutation based on studies or other actual numbers. Remember the burden of proof is on those with the unconventional argument- in this case that's you. I would also (still) be very interested in hearing what states have repealed a keep right except to pass law (and when). This could be an interesting debate- it would be neat to hear a supported argument for the other side of it, but saying flatly "That's wrong" without any support (preferably concrete evidence, but even I'm a sucker for a well-developed ramble) isn't useful.

[agentsteel53]

It is illegal in most states to flash headlights to either demand or give the right of way.

yet another law to cater to the moronic, the addled, the unable to proceed, the backwards, the dead.  losers vote.  that sums up all that is wrong with society in general these days in two elegant little words, doesn't it?

[mightyace]

^^^

I've heard, but I could be completely off target here, that in Tennessee, it is illegal to flash your lights to warn drivers of a cop behind you and, of course, ahead of opposing traffic.

But, even if that's true, I've heard nothing about flashing your lights to try and make someone get out of your way being illegal.

BTW  If you want to flash your lights at me to get me to move over, don't do it from 3 feet behind me.  I'm liable not to move over out of spite for tailgating me!

Edit:
After reading corco's post, I looked in the Wikipedia article and the section on Tennessee says:

In Tennessee, flashing headlights to warn oncoming traffic of a police car ahead is protected free speech under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

[corco]

Hey, what do you know? The wikipedia article has a nice list with links to relevant statute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlight_flashing):

Neat points:

California- specifically LEGAL to do it in that situation False
Illegal to do it in most states for the reason mightyace pointed out, but not illegal in a lot of other situations

A minority of states- completely illegal (no matter the situation)
Lots of states don't have any law on the books from what I can find in a quick search beyond wikipedia

I'll continue searching- but I haven't seen yet in any state where it's specifically mentioned as illegal to do it in a passing situation.

[agentsteel53]

I've heard, but I could be completely off target here, that in Tennessee, it is illegal to flash your lights to warn drivers of a cop behind you and, of course, ahead of opposing traffic.

if they pull me over for that, I will claim I was warning drivers about a deer/moose/elk/antelope/bear/elephant/shark/Godzilla/Jesus/etc.

[mightyace]

^^^

Don't worry.  I was mistaken about that anyway.

BTW And, near Hohenwald, TN, the elephant argument might actually work.

[US71]

This is because flashing lights mean stop for emergency reasons to a current or former truck driver.

So when that big ol' semi truck I'm passing on the freeway flashes his lights at me, I'm supposed to stop? I always thought it was an "OK to change lanes" signal.