Am i the only one who despises the TXDot's road system?

[jeffandnicole]

Quote from hbelkins:

This doesn't seem to be an issue in any of the other 46 lower-48 states that don't consistently use frontage roads. (I'm acknowledging Arkansas' occasional use of them here as a frontage-road state).

I guess in other states you just have to sit still until the accident is cleared, meanwhile in Texas, you can just go around them on the frontage road.

To me, its very important to have an alternate route for freeway traffic, whether it be a frontage road, or a close parallel US Highway, since freeway accidents are so asininely frequent

Again, that doesn't seem to be much of an issue elsewhere. I doubt that traffic moves freely on the highway onto the frontage road when there's an accident...I'm sure there's a significant backup just to get to that detour route.

[roadman65]

Even if there is an alternate most people will not stray off the interstate. Akthough some of thr GPS followers will go down cowpaths if they are dirrcted.. All common sense and basic map skills are gone

LGMS428

I have to chime in on that one, yes its true the GPS gives people a reason not to familiarize themselves with surroundings or to learn about directions.  Its giving people an instant means to go from A to B and why would most want to even care what is around them or what those green guides and yellow warnings say.

Anyway, I wish Florida would have a toll free alternate to FL 528 as I am getting tired of telling people that they must stay on the toll road to reach the airport.  We have frontage roads, but only from Orange to Tradeport and the one from Tradeport to the Airport & FL 436 does not align with it either.  To explain to a motorist to make 3 left turns is confusing to them, try explaining how to stay on McCoy Road at Tradeport or to access Bear Road from Jetport which is just as easy and real simple as well, I cannot do.

[Brian556]

quote from roadman65:

I have to chime in on that one, yes its true the GPS gives people a reason not to familiarize themselves with surroundings or to learn about directions.  Its giving people an instant means to go from A to B and why would most want to even care what is around them or what those green guides and yellow warnings say.

Anyway, I wish Florida would have a toll free alternate to FL 528 as I am getting tired of telling people that they must stay on the toll road to reach the airport.  We have frontage roads, but only from Orange to Tradeport and the one from Tradeport to the Airport & FL 436 does not align with it either.  To explain to a motorist to make 3 left turns is confusing to them, try explaining how to stay on McCoy Road at Tradeport or to access Bear Road from Jetport which is just as easy and real simple as well, I cannot do.

I agree. It's lousy that they rigged it so that you have to pay a toll to access the airport easily.

This, along with partial interchanges, are two things about FL's roads that are worse than Texas

[kphoger]

I guess in other states you just have to sit still until the accident is cleared, meanwhile in Texas, you can just go around them on the frontage road.

For a person on a long interurban highway trip, I think it actually makes more sense to detour early and wide on surface roads far removed from the freeway corridor than to rely on frontage roads.  Even when the frontage road has the same lane count as the freeway mainline in the same direction, which in Texas often does not happen outside urban areas, there is no guarantee it will cross bodies of water, and there are usually bottlenecks at ramps that result in long waits on the freeway.

[...]

When all is said and done, I think a driver in Texas is about as vulnerable to accident-related delay as a driver in most other states.

The worst accident-related jam I encountered was in 2014 when a trucker overturned on northbound I-35W in Fort Worth north of I-820 somewhere.  The entire roadway was blocked, so everyone and their uncle were getting off onto the frontage road (which, by the way, I notice ends at Heritage Trace Pkwy).  Having dealt with replacing a broken wheel bearing in the middle of the Mexican desert the day before and having therefore gotten into our motel in San Marcos after midnight, I was in no mood to deal with traffic.  I did a U-turn (thank you, Texas crossovers!) and took alternate routes through the city:  TX-183 to TX-121 to TX-114 and back to I-35W.  Well, it turned out TX-183 was under major construction (finishing up the express lanes), and there was a small wreck along there too, so we still wasted a good half-hour trudging through Fort Worth at 15 mph.  I have no idea if we saved time or not.

And that was the last time I drove through the DFW metro; I now choose to use an 821-mile-long bypass.  (Literally, my new route deviates from my old one for 821 miles, all in order to avoid Fort Worth, and I'm never switching back.)

[J N Winkler]

And that was the last time I drove through the DFW metro; I now choose to use an 821-mile-long bypass.  (Literally, my new route deviates from my old one for 821 miles, all in order to avoid Fort Worth, and I'm never switching back.)

Yeah, I've been finding DFW to be a Chinese wall too, though I haven't had an experience quite as bad as the one you described.  I took US 281 to San Antonio last October and while that worked tolerably well, I got tired of the chipseal, the poor-boy cross-sections from Lampasas southward, and the curves along SH 59 between Bowie and Jacksboro (which I used to make the shuffle from US 81 in Oklahoma and far northern Texas to US 281).  I took I-35 back and found the abrupt slowdowns going through construction (widening between Temple and Waco, and NTE north of Fort Worth) unnerving.

Then, in February, I went to Houston, taking an all-Interstate route on the outbound journey, and swore off I-35E until they finish the widening--nobody was observing the workzone speed limit and my poor car was bouncing over asphalt lumps and manhole covers trying to keep up with the pack.  On the return trip I ran past the north end of I-45 and kept going on US 75--it was mostly smooth sailing (and also my first in-person sighting of the High Five and the segment with cantilevered frontage roads) until I hit Oklahoma, started working my way back to I-35, and discovered what a horror show SH 22 and SH 78 are between Durant and Tishomingo.

For the trips you do, I suspect having a ultimate destination more or less due south of Big Spring helps limit out-of-way travel as you detour through West Texas.  For destinations inside or on the edge of the Texas Triangle, avoiding-DFW itineraries get tricky.

[kphoger]

For the trips you do, I suspect having a ultimate destination more or less due south of Big Spring helps limit out-of-way travel as you detour through West Texas.  For destinations inside or on the edge of the Texas Triangle, avoiding-DFW itineraries get tricky.

Yes, and in fact the new route is shorter.  Well, it's fewer miles, at least.  The old route through Fort Worth and crossing by way of the CCTR at Colombia had a grand total of zero stoplights, fewer than five speed bumps, and two or three stop signs–all of which were at or south of the border.  Not so with the new route, so there isn't actually any drive time savings.....unless there's a traffic jam in Fort Worth, which I've encountered during roughly half of my trips through there.

I had never considered using US-277 all the way through Texas before, because I assumed it would slow a driver down a lot, going through a bunch of towns along the way.  And so I explored the options for bypassing Fort Worth but still ending up at I-35 near Pearsall.  What I discovered is that the closer-in bypass routes have the best scenery through hill country, but they also have upwards of twenty or thirty stoplights between Wichita Falls and the San Antonio area.  And that's not to mention that a few of them involve arriving into San Antonio where traffic is heavy and construction projects seem to be never-ending.

I kept plotting new routes through Texas, pushing my way farther and farther west from I-35, adding more and more miles to the itinerary:  US-281 through Jacksboro and Lampasas, combinations of TX-16 and US-183 through Cisco to Kerrville, wrapping around San Antonio through Hondo...  Nothing satisfied.  By the time I considered swinging even farther west than Brownwood and Kerrville, I realized my routings were closer to the magnet of US-277 than they were to that of I-35.  And what I found was a route (north of the border) with light traffic, ¹/₃ of it four lanes divided, the rest with wide shoulders and occasional passing lanes, fewer than a dozen stoplights, speed limits mostly 70 to 75 mph, fewer miles, highway tolls in shifted to cheaper Oklahoma and the ability to pay cash, and only one city (OKC) bigger than 300k population.  The Mexican portion is significantly slower going but still pleasantly scenic, and the tolls are cheaper.

[J N Winkler]

I kept plotting new routes through Texas, pushing my way farther and farther west from I-35, adding more and more miles to the itinerary:  US-281 through Jacksboro and Lampasas, combinations of TX-16 and US-183 through Cisco to Kerrville, wrapping around San Antonio through Hondo...  Nothing satisfied.  By the time I considered swinging even farther west than Brownwood and Kerrville, I realized my routings were closer to the magnet of US-277 than they were to that of I-35.  And what I found was a route (north of the border) with light traffic, ¹/₃ of it four lanes divided, the rest with wide shoulders and occasional passing lanes, fewer than a dozen stoplights, speed limits mostly 70 to 75 mph, fewer miles, highway tolls in shifted to cheaper Oklahoma and the ability to pay cash, and only one city (OKC) bigger than 300k population.  The Mexican portion is significantly slower going but still pleasantly scenic, and the tolls are cheaper.

I took US 277 between Wichita Falls and Anson in late 2002 for my second (and still most recent) trip to Mexico, when I crossed at Presidio but approached from US 67 rather than FM 170.  It proved to be a nice quiet drive, and over time it has gotten better--for example, one of the first construction plans sets I downloaded from TxDOT (which has been uploading plans to a public-access FTP server since 2001) was for a freeway bypass which carries US 277 around Seymour.  The Houston-Harte expressway, which I have never actually driven but which was another early-noughties TxDOT project, makes it easier to get around San Angelo.  The expressway segment north of Anson also had a rest area, though I'm not sure if that has succumbed to the budget-driven fad for rest area closures.

[kphoger]

I took US 277 between Wichita Falls and Anson in late 2002 for my second (and still most recent) trip to Mexico, when I crossed at Presidio but approached from US 67 rather than FM 170.  It proved to be a nice quiet drive, and over time it has gotten better--for example, one of the first construction plans sets I downloaded from TxDOT (which has been uploading plans to a public-access FTP server since 2001) was for a freeway bypass which carries US 277 around Seymour.  The Houston-Harte expressway, which I have never actually driven but which was another early-noughties TxDOT project, makes it easier to get around San Angelo.  The expressway segment north of Anson also had a rest area, though I'm not sure if that has succumbed to the budget-driven fad for rest area closures.

There are almost no two-lane sections left between Wichita Falls and Abilene, and Anson is the only town you actually drive through between the two.

If you're referring to the sheltered picnic tables just a short distance north of Anson, they're still there and I'm not sure how budget cuts would really affect something that requires almost no maintenance.  I'm not aware of any toilets-included rest areas anywhere between Wichita Falls and Del Rio, although there are a couple of such canopied picnic tables.

The more useful San Angelo bypass for US-277 drivers is Loop-306, which is now four lanes divided in its entirety.  Switching from westbound US-87/Loop-306 to southbound US-277 requires some local road knowledge, specifically when to turn onto a parallel frontage road not marked not marked for US-277 (map link here), but that's about it.  Following posted signage leads to this convoluted nonsense.

[Bobby5280]

I wish more could be done with US-277 between Wichita Falls and Abilene. I'd personally like to see I-44 extended at least to I-20. That would make the I-44 corridor even more useful as a long distance route. It just seems stupid for it to dead end in Wichita Falls. I have watched the progress on the US-277 widening project between Wichita Falls and Abilene. It looks like TX DOT is on the home stretch of that project. The bypass around Dundee was one of the last projects to replace the old 2 lane route and that was in progress last year. Almost forgot: TX DOT still needs to build a bypass for Anson.

In the Wichita Falls area I'd like to see TX DOT connect Kell Freeway to the Holliday bypass and finish that out of a full fledged freeway to the West side of Holliday. TX DOT needs to do this before development swallows up any reasonably affordable corridor to connect the two segments. The stretch of Seymour Highway between Wichita Falls and Holliday as a bunch of industrial type development next to the existing road. I think they would need to bypass that to the South of the existing highway.

Regarding DFW, it's tricky to avoid the metroplex. But avoiding it if possible is probably a good idea. Almost every major route going through there has massive road construction projects in progress. Google Earth imagery for nearly all of the DFW area was updated to 1/27/2017 and shows all these projects. None of the big projects look like they're going to be done soon.

Regarding traffic jams and Frontage Roads, one of the worst recent traffic jams I was in took place North of Houston on I-45. My girlfriend and I were driving into Houston late at night. Some accident had the main Southbound lanes of I-45 shut down. All traffic was diverted to the frontage roads. The traffic lights at the surface streets had us in gridlock. I think frontage roads would work better if there were limits on the number of business driveways spilling out directly onto them. Houston's surface street network is really outdated in many places, so there's no filtering and control of surface street traffic movement. That actually allows jams to happen on the main surface arterials. The jam accumulates onto the frontage roads and then it backs up onto the freeways. When we drive into DFW or Houston which ever of us isn't driving checks Google Maps to see traffic flow and adjust our route accordingly.

[achilles765]

:

Another issue is that I-35 frontage roads in Cooke County and northern Denton County frontage roads have no bridges over water nor bridges over rail.  There is a forced get on the highway or use the Turnaround lane. I-35E in Denton has bridges for the frontage roads, but that is a single track so they will have to just redo all the bridges to make room for more tracks.

Yeah there are quite a few places like that here in Houston. There's also quite a few cases where two freeways meet but the frontage roads for the two freeways don't intersect. Like at IH 45 and 610, IH 610 and SH 288. At all three, the driver is either forced onto the freeway, or the road turns snd merges into the intersecting frontage road, which then makes the driver have to go to the next intersection, then turn around and head back to the where that side of the frontage road turns snd merges into the other freeway frontage road.
Luckily they seem to be avoiding this problem with new freeway-freeway interchanges and even trying to fix the older ones.

[bwana39]

Quote from hbelkins:

This doesn't seem to be an issue in any of the other 46 lower-48 states that don't consistently use frontage roads. (I'm acknowledging Arkansas' occasional use of them here as a frontage-road state).

I guess in other states you just have to sit still until the accident is cleared, meanwhile in Texas, you can just go around them on the frontage road.

To me, its very important to have an alternate route for freeway traffic, whether it be a frontage road, or a close parallel US Highway, since freeway accidents are so asininely frequent

In north Texas, clearing wrecks is agonizingly slow. In Houston, it goes tremendously faster. You are right in DFW, there ALLWAYS need to be an alternative.

The truly rural (as opposed to medium sized town) frontage roads are truly over built. Interstate 30 from The west side of Texarkana to nearly Sulphur Springs does not continuous frontage roads.  The real issue with frontage roads in the small towns is access to business. The frontage roads provide places for services for the Freeway without the traffic going into the town.  It is a mixed bag. The businesses along the bypassed route are even more left out than had there been no frontage roads. 

I will add this though, when you convert a highway to limited access and the property owners along the route are now cut off from the mainlanes, the only option in a lot of cases is frontage roads.  There are options when a freeway runs along a greenfield route, but far and wide the Texas freeways are only going on new routings to bypass towns. 

As to hating the frontage roads because of how the X ramps work, The x pattern seems to work considerably better than their predecessors as to keeping the traffic moving both on the frontage road and the mainlanes. Now you get off right after the over / underpass for the previous exit and you get on the freeway right before the intersection (over / underpass) for the next exit. 

[CoreySamson]

In my opinion, feeder roads are a great idea, but if they are wider than 3 lanes, then it becomes hard to turn right of them immediately after coming off the highway. Nevertheless, I like the way they work.

[Bobby5280]

As to hating the frontage roads because of how the X ramps work, The x pattern seems to work considerably better than their predecessors as to keeping the traffic moving both on the frontage road and the mainlanes.

I usually call "X" ramps by a different term: "braided" ramps. Generally, I like how they connect freeways to frontage roads. But they obviously cost more money to build. One fly-over slip ramp going over another at-grade slip ramp is going to cost a lot more money to build than two at-grade slip ramps in different locations. Braided ramps are more efficient since they can provide double the opportunity for drivers to leave or enter the freeway. So they're superior in locations with dense development along the frontage roads.

[kphoger]

I usually call "X" ramps by a different term: "braided" ramps. Generally, I like how they connect freeways to frontage roads. But they obviously cost more money to build. One fly-over slip ramp going over another at-grade slip ramp is going to cost a lot more money to build than two at-grade slip ramps in different locations. Braided ramps are more efficient since they can provide double the opportunity for drivers to leave or enter the freeway. So they're superior in locations with dense development along the frontage roads.

X ramps are not necessarily braided.  The term 'braided ramps' implies that one ramp goes over the other on a grade separation.  The term 'X ramps', however, just means that the locations of all the on- and off-ramps along a stretch are flip-flopped from the more 'normal' configuration–no grade separation necessarily required.

[bwana39]

In my opinion, feeder roads are a great idea, but if they are wider than 3 lanes, then it becomes hard to turn right of them immediately after coming off the highway. Nevertheless, I like the way they work.

You are right with traditional ramps, the so-called ez-on/ez-off where the exit is immediately before the intersection on the FEEDER (OK I used the Houston term, my mom used it all of her life. She lived in Houston in the early 1960's).

The problem has been mostly mitigated using X ramps. Where you exit onto the frontage road just after the previous overpass and have significantly more room to merge right. These are especially prevalent on the Gulf Freeway.

[codyg1985]

In my opinion, feeder roads are a great idea, but if they are wider than 3 lanes, then it becomes hard to turn right of them immediately after coming off the highway. Nevertheless, I like the way they work.

You are right with traditional ramps, the so-called ez-on/ez-off where the exit is immediately before the intersection on the FEEDER (OK I used the Houston term, my mom used it all of her life. She lived in Houston in the early 1960's).

The problem has been mostly mitigated using X ramps. Where you exit onto the frontage road just after the previous overpass and have significantly more room to merge right. These are especially prevalent on the Gulf Freeway.

US 231 in Huntsville, AL is set up this way, and I think it is a really nice setup for moving traffic.

[motorola870]

Quite frankly the only downside to having frontage roads is in some areas it requires excessive amounts of ROW displacement in urban areas. Nothing like having to tear out entire strips of businesses when you upgrade that 1980s era bypass from 4 lanes with 2 continuous frontage roads to 4 or 5 lanes each direction and TXDOT used very narrow ROW. But then again these days TXDOT has somewhat better planning most of the time they will do frontage roads first then build in the mainlanes. For example the TX360 Tollway was originally planned as a freeway from I20 to US287 but to speed up the process they turned over the main lanes to the NTTA. Here is the thing they built the frontage roads in phases beginning 20 or so years before ground broke on the tollway. There was what 3 phases I believe to get 360 to US 287. First was 1994 from I 20 to Arlington-Webb-Britton Road (Now New York Ave-Eden Road). Then came 1997 with an Extension to Broad Street or what Became Heritage Parkway then in 2003 the 2 way 60 MPH one lane each direction super service road (basically used the ROW for the southbound frontage road) built from Heritage Parkway to US 287. When they finally did the full upgrade thanks to years of planning that area is now seeing large amounts of urban growth. That was a good example of how to prepare. Personally the only thing I hate about the Texas system is they don't have a setup to really promote visiting the city centers they bypass. I think it would have been nice for TXDOT when they build a bypass and eventually decide in some cases to hand over the road to the city please keep the business routing up with a number even if it is city maintained. Why people might ask? Because having the word business attached to it would signify there is something there for people to stop and fill up or cultural districts. I believe Canada has done this where they have provincial roads signed in cities when the city maintains it.

[Chris]

The frontage roads have attracted a lot of commercial and industrial activity. Houston looks like an endless strip of retail from the freeway.

On the other hand, these strips also act like a noise barrier to residential neighborhoods. I was watching some highway videos from Houston and realized how few noise barriers there are.

[ethanhopkin14]

Funny thing:  It took me forever to realize frontage/service/gateway/access (depending on where in the state you are) were almost exclusively a Texas thing, even after driving in almost every state.  I just didn't really notice that every other states exit ramps went straight to the intersecting road, until it was pointed out to me.  Then I said, I guess businesses don't have interstate highways as their addresses then.  All the business are on the intersecting road?  That's weird. 

I always knew of the system so it's actually weirder for me that I can't drive on a road that parallels the main lanes in other states.  It seems more of a hassle to get back on the freeway.  You have just a few access points and can't drive along the highway. 

[SkyPesos]

Funny thing:  It took me forever to realize frontage/service/gateway/access (depending on where in the state you are) were almost exclusively a Texas thing, even after driving in almost every state.  I just didn't really notice that every other states exit ramps went straight to the intersecting road, until it was pointed out to me.  Then I said, I guess businesses don't have interstate highways as their addresses then.  All the business are on the intersecting road?  That's weird. 

I always knew of the system so it's actually weirder for me that I can't drive on a road that parallels the main lanes in other states.  It seems more of a hassle to get back on the freeway.  You have just a few access points and can't drive along the highway.

I grew up in St. Louis, and Missouri uses a lot of 2 way frontage roads on both sides of their freeways, so for a while, I thought those were normal. Though most exits go directly onto the perpendicular road instead of the frontage road, main exception is those on I-270 WB with Dunn Rd. This leads to sometimes the godawful spacing between the ramp and the frontage road. Also the frontage roads have their own road name, unlike TX's, like I-70's in St. Charles County is called Veterans Memorial Pkwy, with the businesses alongside it using that road name in their address.

Though there are examples of one way frontage roads with slip ramps from the main freeway, similar to TX's, like I-64's between exits 19 and 24 and MO 364's between exits 8 and 13.

[Revive 755]

I grew up in St. Louis, and Missouri uses a lot of 2 way frontage roads on both sides of their freeways, so for a while, I thought those were normal. Though most exits go directly onto the perpendicular road instead of the frontage road, main exception is those on I-270 WB with Dunn Rd. This leads to sometimes the godawful spacing between the ramp and the frontage road. Also the frontage roads have their own road name, unlike TX's, like I-70's in St. Charles County is called Veterans Memorial Pkwy, with the businesses alongside it using that road name in their address.

Though there are examples of one way frontage roads with slip ramps from the main freeway, similar to TX's, like I-64's between exits 19 and 24 and MO 364's between exits 8 and 13.

Except the WB one along that stretch of US 40 has an annoying gap at MO 141.

There's also the North and South Highway Drive along I-44 from MO 141 east to the Meramec River.  I think MoDOT is trying to convert some of the I-70 outer roads to one way but in St. Charles County but is facing opposition.

[thenetwork]

The last time I drove around in the Dallas Metroplex, I had the option of driving on the Tollway, or just follow the free frontage road which paralleled the tollway.  The frontage roads were one-way roads and the speed limit was around 45 MPH, but I don't think I was ever able to make it through more than one traffic light at a time -- I think they purposely rigged it that way to get you to consider "paying" to bypass most of the frontage road.

Cleveland also has a stretch or two along I-90 and SR-2 (Lakeland Freeway) where there are one-way frontage roads with pre-intersection turnarounds that bypass the traffic lights.

[Bobby5280]

Driving along the frontage roads that flank the Dallas North Tollway might be somewhat tolerable in off-peak traffic hours, but doing that is an absolute slog during the morning or evening rush. I can barely stand driving around on surface streets in North Dallas zones like Addison. Some of the traffic lights take a very long time to change.

Some of the tolls on DFW area toll roads and express lanes can get a bit expensive (especially when you compare them to the much lower toll prices in Oklahoma). But there are times where it's worth it to pay several dollars extra to bypass one heck of a traffic jam.  A driver's time, patience and grasp to sanity is worth something.

[motorola870]

Driving along the frontage roads that flank the Dallas North Tollway might be somewhat tolerable in off-peak traffic hours, but doing that is an absolute slog during the morning or evening rush. I can barely stand driving around on surface streets in North Dallas zones like Addison. Some of the traffic lights take a very long time to change.

Some of the tolls on DFW area toll roads and express lanes can get a bit expensive (especially when you compare them to the much lower toll prices in Oklahoma). But there are times where it's worth it to pay several dollars extra to bypass one heck of a traffic jam.  A driver's time, patience and grasp to sanity is worth something.

The excessive tolls are on the TXDOT owned express lanes NTTA just does the billing for them. The NTTA owned tolls are more reasonable. The 360 South Tollway is around $2.00-3.00 one way for 9 miles. Compared to $10 surge pricing from gantry to gantry on the North Tarrant Express for example. Even then they left the frontage roads so people can go through 8 signalized intersections for free before the tollway ends to end up at US 287 as the SH 360 designation still resides on the frontage roads. 

[motorola870]

I think having frontage roads on the bypasses do lead to the towns moving out to the bypasses. Looking at the Midlothian Texas US 287 bypass it took about 10 years but now the city moved to the bypass so it no longer goes around Midlothian instead the city now goes several miles south. The city gained several chain businesses a third or fourth grocery store (Kroger). Also the US67 bypass which eventually became the only US67 routing in Midlothian when 9th street (business US67) was turned back to the city and the southern section became spur 73 now has Walmart and other businesses.