Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[MaxConcrete]

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/01073235.htm

Bids were opened for the construction of decks over Spur 366 for the expansion of Klyde Warren park. The lowest bid is 101% above the estimate of $47.2 million.

This is surprising, since the deck extension is short, with one section between St. Paul and Akard and then a section on the west side of Akard. Between St. Paul and Akard an event center is planned for the deck. Webber, which is probably the second most competitive bidder in Texas (after Williams Brothers), was 128% over the estimate.

I'm thinking this will throw the park expansion project into turmoil, since the overall cost was estimated around $100 million and this is a 50% increase. It took years to arrange financing for the estimated cost. I'm thinking TxDOT will rebid, and they will probably cut the project in half by postponing the section west of Akard (which is the green area in the depiction).

County:   DALLAS   Let Date:   01/07/22
Type:   CONSTRUCT PEDESTRIAN INFRASTRUCTURE   Seq No:   3235
Time:   0 X   Project ID:   STP 2022(386)MM
Highway:   SS 366   Contract #:   01223235
Length:   0.206   CCSJ:   0196-07-034
Limits:   
From:   WEST OF AKARD ST   Check:   $100,000
To:   SAINT PAUL ST   Misc Cost:   $2686811.55
Estimate   $47,197,572.82   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $94,966,147.78   +101.21%   ARCHER WESTERN CONSTRUCTION, LLC
Bidder 2   $107,624,544.53   +128.03%   WEBBER, LLC

[Bobby5280]

Considering events over the past year or so it shouldn't be surprising bids for a deck park expansion would come in way above expectations.

Under previously "normal" circumstances there was already quite a lot of construction price inflation present in any highway-related project. Now we have this pandemic and its effects on materials prices. At the sign company where I work we have to check prices of materials like steel pipe, concrete, aluminum extrusions, power supplies, etc almost every day in order to calculate accurate bids. Price hikes have been happening frequently.

How long ago was the original $47.2 million estimate for the deck park expansion developed? If the original estimate is more than a few months old, or even a year or two old they should have re-calculated everything.

[MaxConcrete]

Considering events over the past year or so it shouldn't be surprising bids for a deck park expansion would come in way above expectations.

I reviewed the bids for other projects which had bid openings yesterday and today. All of the larger projects I reviewed (>10 million) are very close to estimate. Projects in the Midland area are at or below estimate.
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/01073204.htm
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/01073202.htm

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/01073234.htm

A project just south of Dallas in Ellis County had 8 bidders and was 6% above budget.
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/01063044.htm

So I don't think the Spur 366 budget bust is indicative of overall cost inflation. It must be specific to the Spur 366 project, maybe difficulty with the constrained work zone.

[Bobby5280]

I reviewed the bids for other projects which had bid openings yesterday and today. All of the larger projects I reviewed (>10 million) are very close to estimate.

How old are the original estimates compared to bids that were only slightly above estimate? How old is that original deck park expansion estimate?

Deck parks are also quite a bit different than other kinds of highway projects. Especially if the estimate is including more than just the structure to hold the park. Of course, like you said, the location itself may pose quite a few difficulties that dramatically hike the price. But that probably should have been factored into the original forecast cost estimate.

[Chris]

At what point do decks become tunnels? I mean, over a certain length they would need far more complex and costly tunnel safety equipment.

Decks or lids over pre-existing highways have become somewhat common in Europe since the 1990s. These were initially relatively cheap to construct, but with tightened regulations about tunnel safety, upgrading these to modern standards has become quite expensive and very complex. Recently completed road tunnels often take up to a year of testing and training before it can open to traffic. The regulatory environment for road tunnels has become very restrictive.

[bwana39]

At what point do decks become tunnels? I mean, over a certain length they would need far more complex and costly tunnel safety equipment.

Decks or lids over pre-existing highways have become somewhat common in Europe since the 1990s. These were initially relatively cheap to construct, but with tightened regulations about tunnel safety, upgrading these to modern standards has become quite expensive and very complex. Recently completed road tunnels often take up to a year of testing and training before it can open to traffic. The regulatory environment for road tunnels has become very restrictive.

 Perhaps the foundation for a large commercial building on the top of it was the budget breaker?  The ramps under the frontage roads?  There are probably over 4 lane miles of street and ramps to be built in additional to the cap itself.  Was the building part of the quote too?

[Bobby5280]

Yeah, I've never seen something like a multi-story venue being built on top of a freeway lid. Usually any structures on top of deck park lids are pretty modest in nature. The buildings in Moody Plaza, part of the existing Klyde Warren Park deck are single floor structures that aren't very big at all. Most other freeway lids I've seen only contain park land over the top.

One end of I-290 in Chicago goes through the historic post office building, but that is a far bigger building that spans over and around the freeway. It's like a tunnel was built through the lower portion of the building.

[kernals12]

Yeah, I've never seen something like a multi-story venue being built on top of a freeway lid. Usually any structures on top of deck park lids are pretty modest in nature. The buildings in Moody Plaza, part of the existing Klyde Warren Park deck are single floor structures that aren't very big at all. Most other freeway lids I've seen only contain park land over the top.

One end of I-290 in Chicago goes through the historic post office building, but that is a far bigger building that spans over and around the freeway. It's like a tunnel was built through the lower portion of the building.

Boston's Prudential Center enters the chat

[kernals12]

Any project that involves suspending a slab of steel or concrete on a relatively small number of supports is going to be very, very expensive. If it was cheap, they'd do it everywhere and urban freeway projects would be a lot less controversial.

[MaxConcrete]

The bids for this project were officially rejected at the TxDOT commission meeting today.

The project scope will be reduced, and the revised project will be rebid in the future.

[kernals12]

The bids for this project were officially rejected at the TxDOT commission meeting today.

The project scope will be reduced, and the revised project will be rebid in the future.

Sad trombone