I-49 in Arkansas

[Scott5114]

It sounds like your coworkers are babies.

No, not really. They just figure it's bull$#!+ if they have to comply to one standard and another co-worker can do drugs at home or even come to work drunk or high and not be subject to any scrutiny.

They figure incorrectly. It's not bullshit at all.

Or do surgeons think it's bullshit that the people that mop up puke don't have to comply to the same standard of having M.D.s that they do?

[Bobby5280]

They figure incorrectly. It's not bullshit at all.

It does not matter if you think they "figure incorrectly." The employees still feel how they feel about the issue. Telling them they're "wrong" doesn't change a Goddamned thing, especially how they feel. If they're pissed off enough about the situation they quit. And that sucks, especially if the person who walks is a good employee. I already witnessed the situation as it played out in reality. Once everyone in the company was subject to the random screenings the morale problems over that issue ended. No one was getting "special treatment" anymore.

[vdeane]

They figure incorrectly. It's not bullshit at all.

It does not matter if you think they "figure incorrectly." The employees still feel how they feel about the issue. Telling them they're "wrong" doesn't change a Goddamned thing, especially how they feel. If they're pissed off enough about the situation they quit. And that sucks, especially if the person who walks is a good employee. I already witnessed the situation as it played out in reality. Once everyone in the company was subject to the random screenings the morale problems over that issue ended. No one was getting "special treatment" anymore.

Why did they get into a line of work that requires a CDL if they didn't want to get tested?  That requirement isn't going to change no matter where they work, so comparing with a graphic designer at the same company is irrelevant.

Realistically, we need a test that can test for whether someone is high at the moment rather than whether they used any drugs at any time within the past several days/weeks, but I suspect the reason we don't have such a thing is because of the War on Drugs.

[Road Hog]

The logistics of building an Arkansas River Bridge preclude the construction of a Super-2. You can't build half a span and come back and build the other half on the cheap. So Alma to Barling will be built in full when it happens.

They could build a twin bridge span. Build one two-lane bridge for the initial Super-2 segment and then add the second bridge later. The Arkansas River at Fort Smith doesn't require a super high clearance like the Mississippi River. More modest, conventional highway bridge designs can be used. This crossing doesn't require a visual "signature" bridge such as a cable-stayed suspension bridge. Cost estimates don't appear to allow for that at all. Building up berms across flood plain and other grading work is going to eat up much of the budget. The bridge (or bridges) that end up being built will be fairly ordinary looking.

That would most certainly be on brand for Arkansas. Penny wise and pound foolish. Can't build now while it'll be as cheap as it will ever be.

[Gordon]

ARDOT said in the preliminary review they have 3 ways they were looking at build 2 lane bridge, build 2 lanes and build the concrete supports in the River for the second bridge the same time, or build a 4 lane build. But they are still just starting the designs so who knows what they will decide.   

[MikieTimT]

Downtown Little Rock is dead? What the hell happened there? It seems like NWA will continue to attract new residents from the left coast and Texas. IMO, Little Rock isn't as attractive a place to move to in comparison to NWA. It wasn't like that 30+ years ago

My wife and I run a BnB in Bentonville at our old house as a second source of income.  Mostly who we get are folks from Texas coming in to mtn bike.  We've got a family from Dallas, TX staying with us for several days this weekend to look for a home in the area.  Guess the Californians are starting to run the Texans out of Austin and Dallas.  The family that moved in across the street there were from the Baltimore area, so we're getting them from both coasts as well as tons from Texas.

[Tomahawkin]

I met many of people from Texas there when I was at the U of A in the mid 2000's the Big Texas schools are really hard to get into, therefore The U of A has a lot of enrollees from Texas. Having worked at a home depot there. I met plenty of people from California they moved there because of either retirement or that the fact that the cost of living is a fraction of what it is to live in California. This was before the recession and all of the major wildfires that have happened annually over the last decade. In 2008 NWA was ranked one of the best areas to move to in the country...

[Bobby5280]

ARDOT said in the preliminary review they have 3 ways they were looking at build 2 lane bridge, build 2 lanes and build the concrete supports in the River for the second bridge the same time, or build a 4 lane build. But they are still just starting the designs so who knows what they will decide.

Hopefully they'll bite the bullet and build the entire bridge sooner than later, even if other elements of the project on land are initially just 2 lanes. Bridges (or really anything else) aren't getting cheaper to build years later. The costs only seem to go up and up and up.

Why did they get into a line of work that requires a CDL if they didn't want to get tested?

None of the co-workers I've had thru the years who drove crane trucks had any problem getting tested. What many of them didn't like was that while they had to live to a cleaner (and more sober) standard certain others who didn't need a CDL were flagrantly pushing their luck. Certain staff members would miss work more often, with partying too hard the night before being a reason. Some would show up to work high and/or drunk. That affects other people in the workplace by fouling up productivity. In the years after making the random screening policy company-wide, we've seen more people fail the alcohol side of the test. A couple of employees were even fired for repeat violations.

Realistically, we need a test that can test for whether someone is high at the moment rather than whether they used any drugs at any time within the past several days/weeks, but I suspect the reason we don't have such a thing is because of the War on Drugs.

I'm betting the issue has more to do with medical science rather than politics. There is a pretty big money-making incentive to develop sobriety tests for drugs that work as they do for alcohol. There is no profit motive for refusing to develop the testing technology if such a thing is already possible.

[vdeane]

I'm curious how much traffic I-49 would get.  The Bella Vista Bypass basically went to nowhere until completed.  This, however, would be a major link... I could see reason to build 4-lane from the get-go for that reason alone, even setting aside cost increase considerations.

None of the co-workers I've had thru the years who drove crane trucks had any problem getting tested. What many of them didn't like was that while they had to live to a cleaner (and more sober) standard certain others who didn't need a CDL were flagrantly pushing their luck. Certain staff members would miss work more often, with partying too hard the night before being a reason. Some would show up to work high and/or drunk. That affects other people in the workplace by fouling up productivity. In the years after making the random screening policy company-wide, we've seen more people fail the alcohol side of the test. A couple of employees were even fired for repeat violations.

Yikes.  I can't even imagine being drunk or high at work.

I'm betting the issue has more to do with medical science rather than politics. There is a pretty big money-making incentive to develop sobriety tests for drugs that work as they do for alcohol. There is no profit motive for refusing to develop the testing technology if such a thing is already possible.

Not until states started legalizing marijuana, there wouldn't have been.  Even now, it's still fully legal under federal law, so anything federally regulated can just say "I don't care when you were high, it's illegal".  This is also why it's illegal to buy marijuana in one state (or Canada) and bring it home to another, even if it's legal in both places and everywhere in between.

[Bobby5280]

Yikes. I can't even imagine being drunk or high at work.

It gets better. Not only were people having a little something extra with their morning breakfast, but if they were out of the office they might step into a bar while on the clock. One of our office people who did sales work and visit clients at their location would sometimes do that between sales calls. It caused all kinds of problems, from all sorts of unexplained delays to missing details on technical surveys of existing signs, buildings, etc. I'd sometimes have to go back behind the guy to job sites and do the measuring work myself, usually after office hours. When we got the company wide testing policy put into place this guy was one of the first to get fired.

It's one thing to turn in a "hot" piss test from having smoked a joint a couple weeks ago. It's really bad if a person can't manage to blow a 0.000 reading on a BAC meter in the middle of the morning because he can't do without alcohol for more than a few hours at a time.

Not until states started legalizing marijuana, there wouldn't have been.  Even now, it's still fully legal under federal law, so anything federally regulated can just say "I don't care when you were high, it's illegal".  This is also why it's illegal to buy marijuana in one state (or Canada) and bring it home to another, even if it's legal in both places and everywhere in between.

Demand has been pretty strong for testing services well before marijuana laws began to relax in some states. Remember, the majority of the world's attorneys work inside the United States. Drug testing figures in big with liability cases, both in court and when buying insurance coverage. Some of our insurance bills are lower because our company has a drug screening policy in place.

I can't imagine any business that would be against better screening methods for how high a person is at the time on various kinds of drugs. I'm certain many kinds of businesses that use commercial vehicles or dangerous equipment would pay a premium for such testing work if it was available. I think any suggestion that there is some plot against developing such testing methods would be ridiculous. What would the motivation be to block such research and development? The plain fact is science hasn't figured it out yet.

There is some movement afoot to decriminalize marijuana at the federal level. That would make it a lot easier for dispensaries and grow house businesses to do their banking. Oklahoma is kind of an odd state with its medical marijuana setup. It's not hard for anyone to get a medical marijuana card, which makes the "medical" part a mere formality. It's practically recreational, but there are limits where you can use the drug. You can't just blaze-up while walking down the sidewalk. It's also not hard to open a dispensary or grow house. The licensing costs are minimal compared to other states and there appears to be no limit on how many dispensaries or grow houses can operate in a county. I've lost track of how many signs, window wraps and other graphics I've designed for such places. I think it has done a pretty good job of killing the illegal pot business in the state. Still, we have plenty of pushers selling coke, meth and fake pills laced with fentanyl. Lots of people are dying of it too, more than 100,000 Americans between April 2020 and April 2021.

[jbnv]

Oklahoma is kind of an odd state with its medical marijuana setup. It's not hard for anyone to get a medical marijuana card, which makes the "medical" part a mere formality. .... It's also not hard to open a dispensary or grow house. The licensing costs are minimal compared to other states and there appears to be no limit on how many dispensaries or grow houses can operate in a county. I've lost track of how many signs, window wraps and other graphics I've designed for such places.

Two years ago I took a sign-photography trip through extreme eastern Oklahoma while my family were staying in Arkansas. I was quite surprised to see the number of dispensaries in the middle of nowhere. 

[Bobby5280]

There are so many dispensaries operating in the Lawton area that if you blind-folded yourself, spun around a few times and then threw a rock you might hit one.

We've done a number of business name change projects for these marijuana-related businesses. I don't mind those because those projects are usually pretty easy since we usually have a lot of existing details from drawings that we can use. There are bigger interests with deeper pockets moving into the state and buying out smaller operators who are struggling. The market is hitting a saturation point. Out of all the different kinds of business categories that operate in a particular town I think there might be more dispensaries than anything else. I'm pretty sure they outnumber all the convenience store locations in the area. Over the next few years a lot of consolidation will take place. If the federal government legalized marijuana on the federal level then it's all but guaranteed big tobacco and big pharma companies will swoop in and take over everything. That's how we get the odd situation where independent dispensary operators kind of want the current situation to stay as-is.

[Scott5114]

Oklahoma has the most per-capita weed sales revenue of any state. I don't think it's going to be market saturation that is going to trigger consolidation, it's going to be the Metrc regulations kicking in. A lot of small operators aren't going to want to deal with the regulatory overhead and exit the business. A lot of these small operators got into the business thinking it was a get-rich-quick ticket and have kind of soured on it when they realized it takes a lot of work to succeed, like any other business.

A lot of cannabis businesses are also struggling because of bad business sense. There are a bunch of dealers and growers that were in the business when it was illegal, transitioned to running a legal business, and then found out you can't operate a legal business the same way you do on the black market. When it's black market, you can go back on deals, ghost people, and stiff people on work they've done, because what are they going to do, quit buying, or call the cops? But when it's legal, these people have no idea what to do when someone hires a lawyer to go after their ass, or when people stop doing business with them because they got fucked over.

[Bobby5280]

Some of the difficulty in running a "legit" weed business is the complication that comes with having a physical brick and mortar location. They're having to pay rent, utilities, a variety of taxes, etc.

Even with all those challenges, the situation in Oklahoma is far more "business friendly" than just about all other states. Most other states charge a ridiculous fortune in up-front licensing fees and limit the number of operations in a county, or state-wide. Those limits open the door for all kinds of political favoritism and corruption just for a pot business to get a license. Oklahoma's setup is far more market friendly. The customers are really the big winners in this because competition between dispensaries and grow houses is pretty fierce. That translates into a higher competition bar for product quality, product variety and price. If you live in a state that allows only one dispensary per county (or only a handful state-wide) you're probably going to pay a lot more for the product and the product may not be so great.

[MikieTimT]

How in the world has this thread about an incomplete Interstate in Arkansas been hijacked into a topic about weed in Oklahoma?

Hopefully there'll be money in this infrastructure package to make some real progress on bridging I-49 across the Arkansas River.  Anyone have any idea when we'll get a breakdown on what gets spent and where?

[bassoon1986]

Are there any exits planned between I-40 and AR 255 along I-49 there or just the river bridge?


iPhone

[MikieTimT]

Are there any exits planned between I-40 and AR 255 along I-49 there or just the river bridge?

There are 2 additional exits between I-40 and AR-22.  One at Gun Club Rd. and the other at Clear Creek Rd.

Here's a map of the routing.
https://www.swtimes.com/story/news/2021/07/20/interstate-49-extension-arkansas-moves-into-next-phase-development/7996592002/

Hopefully, the infrastructure package will have some funding for the I-49 Arkansas River bridge for 4 lanes.  There's only about a mile and a half from the current terminus at the overpass at AR-22 to where the bridge approach would be, so if Arkansas does wind up having to do some Super-2 for the remaining 10 miles or so, hopefully it's 4 lane from the bridge southward at least to knock out the most expensive portion ASAP before inflation bites too hard.

[Bobby5280]

I think the state of Arkansas is literally leaving lots of money on the table by not getting the Alma to Barling segment of I-49 built quickly.

For quite a few years now the Fort Smith region and state of Arkansas in general has wanted to re-develop the Fort Chaffee area (which no longer has active duty troops permanently stationed there). They've wanted to re-vamp the area as both a distribution hub and even possibly a retail/outlet hub. None of that is fully feasible without a direct freeway link to I-40. They did get one segment of Future I-49 built between US-71 and AR-255. That doesn't do a whole lot to spur development without that physical link to I-40.

Additionally, the area just East of Van Buren could see a good bit of new retail or residential growth once the Alma-Barling I-49 segment is finished. Not much can be built right next to the river due to possible flooding issues. But there is about 30 square miles of land between the river and I-40 that can be developed.

[MikieTimT]

I think the state of Arkansas is literally leaving lots of money on the table by not getting the Alma to Barling segment of I-49 built quickly.

For quite a few years now the Fort Smith region and state of Arkansas in general has wanted to re-develop the Fort Chaffee area (which no longer has active duty troops permanently stationed there). They've wanted to re-vamp the area as both a distribution hub and even possibly a retail/outlet hub. None of that is fully feasible without a direct freeway link to I-40. They did get one segment of Future I-49 built between US-71 and AR-255. That doesn't do a whole lot to spur development without that physical link to I-40.

Additionally, the area just East of Van Buren could see a good bit of new retail or residential growth once the Alma-Barling I-49 segment is finished. Not much can be built right next to the river due to possible flooding issues. But there is about 30 square miles of land between the river and I-40 that can be developed.

Van Buren may grow a little as a result, but since US-64 isn't getting an exit as the overpass over I-40 will also overpass US-64 being as close as it is, even Alma right next door won't really get any more access to I-49 than it already has.  Kibler is all bottomland with Clear Creek/Frog Bayou as the next exit south at Clear Creek Rd., so any development there will require a fair amount of fill to stay above flooding that would still periodically cut off access as the roads there have moderate flood risk.  Gun Club Rd. on the next exit is pretty much river bottom cropland, so that won't have any foreseeable growth either.  It's not until south of AR-22 that the real development potential exists, and even AR-22 was under water in the 2019 Arkansas River Flood there at Chaffee just east of the traffic light with that creek running past backed up from river.  Had to detour around to Greenwood from/to Charleston to make the trip to Ft. Smith during the high water.  The Chaffee Crossing land that's being developed is higher than the parts to the east that flooded, thankfully.

[bwana39]

Does anyone think any of us will see a completed Interstate 49 between New Orleans, LA and Kansas City, MO within our lifetimes? Considering how long it will take to complete 49 between Interstates 30 and 40, and how slowly the upgrades are coming to US 90 between Lafayette and New Orleans, I would say no.

The part between NWA and Texarkana is going to be expensive, it is going to have minimal benefit to metro Little Rock, and it seemingly falls a good bit below other Arkansas projects on the priority list.

The reason we are talking about the Alma to Barling portion is because the people in Fort Smith know that once it is built, that I-49 south will seem incomplete. If it is in need of completion, at some point, it might actually be completed.

[Bobby5280]

The hardest part in the whole I-49 project is the Alma to Barling segment. Once they can get that finished the segments proceeding farther South will be easier to build. No long bridges over rivers.

The new terrain segments will take a good bit of grading work, but there are few properties in the way to clear either. I think I said it earlier: they can "flesh-out" much of the corridor, reserving needed ROW, by building a Super 2 just like they did with AR-530 farther East. The second set of lanes and limited access exits can be added as funding becomes available. I think AR DOT may have to use this approach with the bypasses around towns along the route.

[US71]

The hardest part in the whole I-49 project is the Alma to Barling segment. Once they can get that finished the segments proceeding farther South will be easier to build. No long bridges over rivers.

The new terrain segments will take a good bit of grading work, but there are few properties in the way to clear either. I think I said it earlier: they can "flesh-out" much of the corridor, reserving needed ROW, by building a Super 2 just like they did with AR-530 farther East. The second set of lanes and limited access exits can be added as funding becomes available. I think AR DOT may have to use this approach with the bypasses around towns along the route.

ARDOT has already stated the I-40 rt Barling segment will be a Super 2, to be completed as money becomes available.

[bwana39]

The hardest part in the whole I-49 project is the Alma to Barling segment. Once they can get that finished the segments proceeding farther South will be easier to build. No long bridges over rivers.

The new terrain segments will take a good bit of grading work, but there are few properties in the way to clear either. I think I said it earlier: they can "flesh-out" much of the corridor, reserving needed ROW, by building a Super 2 just like they did with AR-530 farther East. The second set of lanes and limited access exits can be added as funding becomes available. I think AR DOT may have to use this approach with the bypasses around towns along the route.

You have got to be kidding! The mountains are the WORST part.

[MikieTimT]

The hardest part in the whole I-49 project is the Alma to Barling segment. Once they can get that finished the segments proceeding farther South will be easier to build. No long bridges over rivers.

The new terrain segments will take a good bit of grading work, but there are few properties in the way to clear either. I think I said it earlier: they can "flesh-out" much of the corridor, reserving needed ROW, by building a Super 2 just like they did with AR-530 farther East. The second set of lanes and limited access exits can be added as funding becomes available. I think AR DOT may have to use this approach with the bypasses around towns along the route.

You have got to be kidding! The mountains are the WORST part.

Not on a cost per mile basis.  The bridge, approaches, and roadbed buildup over a significant portion of the 13.6 miles, not to mention taking mainline I-49 across I-40 along with the flyovers for northbound I-49 to westbound I-40 and westbound I-40 to southbound I-49 will be significantly higher per mile.  Mountainous terrain building isn't a foreign concept for Arkansas as the 40 miles from Fayetteville's southernmost exit to I-40 is all mountains.  Thankfully that stretch didn't have to go the Super-2 route initially like these other portions will due to John Paul Hammerschmidt's pushing for funding that stretch of I-49/I-540 to replace the deadly Scenic US-71 that was choked with truck traffic and not enough passing zones.  Unfortunately, the Ft. Smith area and more especially the portions south don't have the population nor political pull to expedite a full 4 lane.

Edit:  That 40 mile stretch was still done piecemeal in typical Arkansas fashion however.  The initial portion went from Alma to the Mountainburg exit, which forced traffic through Mountainburg on US-71 for the rest of the way to Fayetteville's Fulbright Expressway.  That's why there's that rather large abandoned truckstop at the edge of Mountainburg you can see from I-49, as there were several years of construction of the northern 31 miles that left an opportunity for that business to flourish for a time.  I think the Super-2 on better sightlines, curve radii, and town bypassing would be preferable to the way that I-49 north of I-40 was done in Arkansas.

[bwana39]

The hardest part in the whole I-49 project is the Alma to Barling segment. Once they can get that finished the segments proceeding farther South will be easier to build. No long bridges over rivers.

The new terrain segments will take a good bit of grading work, but there are few properties in the way to clear either. I think I said it earlier: they can "flesh-out" much of the corridor, reserving needed ROW, by building a Super 2 just like they did with AR-530 farther East. The second set of lanes and limited access exits can be added as funding becomes available. I think AR DOT may have to use this approach with the bypasses around towns along the route.

You have got to be kidding! The mountains are the WORST part.

Not on a cost per mile basis.

I will give you that. On the other hand, the cost of the segment from Mena to Waldron will have cost over-runs, delays, and problems.
It has been a while since there has been significant freeway built in the mountains. There is no telling what the cost will be.  While the per-mile cost may (perhaps even probably) be less than the river crossing , the per traffic mile and segment cost will almost surely be higher.