Birmingham

[BamaZeus]

I like the general idea behind it.  Obviously 10 lanes would be better than 6 through downtown, and using 11th Avenue would help get rid of much of the swerving issue downtown.  I think the removal of the side exits would help traffic flow at street level, as well.  No more hard right then quick left when exiting at 17th St, or trying to go up the ramp at 22nd St and trying to get up to 55mph before the 65 split.

If you're going from say 65 South to 59 North and need to get off at the BJCC, you have to cross about 5 lanes of traffic in approximately 1/4 mile.  Now you can exit before Malfunction Junction and avoid the backup.

At first I couldn't see how one would go from the BJCC to 65 South, but now I see they're adding an access ramp to 59 at the eastern end, allowing one to cross over in an ample amount of time.

If/when the Langford Dome is ever built on the north end of the BJCC, it would be a perfect spot for a wide avenue with interstate access at either end.  It might behoove the city to also build some pedestrian bridges over 9th Avenue and 19th Street toward the parking areas.  There's always a scramble to get out of BJCC events, and it gets slowed down because pedestrians have to cross the main intersection out of there.

[codyg1985]

The only access issue I see would be trying to get to the BJCC from 65 north. I suppose you could get off at Finley and take 18th Street in.

[froggie]

Given that they're relocating the ramp from SB 20/59 to NB 65, they could theoretically add a new ramp from SB 65 to 11th Ave.

Optimally, they'd be burying this thing, not replacing the viaduct.  If anything, this plan will cut off the BJCC even further from the rest of downtown, since you have that much wider of a viaduct to cross under.

[BamaZeus]

A VMS on 459 South was struck by a big rig this morning, and it fell into the roadway.  459 has been at a crawl all the way from I-20 to US 280 for hours now, since it's down to one lane open.

The sign in question is this one, right before the 1 mile advance sign for 280.  http://goo.gl/maps/PEDJW


About 5 months ago, the same thing happened in Tuscaloosa, on 59 South right before the 359 interchange.  Since then they've had a portable VMS at the side of the road.
http://www.myfoxal.com/story/20510364/tuscaloosa-wreck-blocks-i-59-westbou

http://www.abc3340.com/story/22529956/early-morning-traffic-problems-on-i-459-south-after-electronic-sign-hit-by-truck-lands-on-roadway

[agentsteel53]

what's with truckers losing their collective intelligence the last few weeks?

[Tourian]

From what I understand the planed bridge will use a lot less pylons then the current one and with less ramps on and off the thickness or bulkiness of it will be lessened substantially so it won't seem like the bJCC is behind a wall of concrete like it is now.

Moving it would be great but there just doesn't seem to be a will or way to do that.

[Grzrd]

ALDOT has posted materials from their recent public involvment meeting to rebuild the I-20/59 viaduct through downtown Birmingham. The proposal calls for eliminating exits between I-65 and US 31/280 so that the road can be widened. Access to the CBD will be provided from 11th Avenue. Ramps will be built on either end of 11th Avenue to connect to I-20/59. The new bridges will be built using segmented construction.

John Norquist and the CNU are now targeting the project:

http://weldbham.com/blog/2013/07/17/birminghams-choice/

"It definitely will not do anything good for Birmingham,"  Norquist declared. "Freeways attract through traffic that has no value to downtown at all. Actually, [the ALDOT plan] will hurt people – residents of the city and suburbs – who want to use the interstate to get downtown. They're looking at downtown as an obstacle to getting traffic through Birmingham, not as a destination. That's really a toxic mindset if you're interested in maintaining and adding to the vitality of the city."  ....
Asked about ALDOT's apparent out-of-hand rejection of various alternatives for I-20/59 – including making the highway through downtown a street-level boulevard similar to the Milwaukee project – Norquist said all of the arguments the department is making can be "turned right back on them."  For instance, he maintained, ALDOT's insistence that the alternatives are too expensive fly in the face of the fact that "it costs less to tear down a freeway than to replace it"  – especially an elevated highway that has reached the end of its design life. The estimated cost of rebuilding the stretch of highway Milwaukee ultimately demolished was $90 million, Norquist said; the cost of turning it into a surface street was $30 million.
Likewise with the argument that expanding I-20/59 to accommodate additional traffic will make the highway safer. ALDOT says eliminating downtown exits – another idea, Norquist said, that is "not good for businesses downtown"  – will reduce traffic accidents by doing away with the need for drivers coming onto 20/59 from I-65 South to weave across several lanes of traffic to get off the interstate. Norquist said that might be true in times of peak traffic, but ignores the larger safety impacts associated with highway expansion in general.

This blog notes an earlier plan to sink I-20/59 below street level was deemed too expensive:

A $700 million alternative proposal to sink the highway was dismissed by state leaders as "too expensive."  Perhaps if transportation officials eliminated plans for the $4.7 billion Northern Beltline, a literal highway to nowhere, there would be more money to invest in the core of the city.

I wouldn't mind if the Northern Beltline were scrapped, I-20/59 through downtown could be the redefined Corridor X-1, and I-22 could be extended (as part of a lengthened Corridor X) to I-20/59 near the airport.  Then, use the ADHS funds for an I-20/59 sink and cover project and the I-22 extension.

[Revive 755]

ALDOT has posted materials from their recent public involvment meeting to rebuild the I-20/59 viaduct through downtown Birmingham. The proposal calls for eliminating exits between I-65 and US 31/280 so that the road can be widened. Access to the CBD will be provided from 11th Avenue. Ramps will be built on either end of 11th Avenue to connect to I-20/59. The new bridges will be built using segmented construction.

Would it really cost that much more to make the bridge a little higher so it wouldn't be as gloomy beneath?

John Norquist and the CNU are now targeting the project:

http://weldbham.com/blog/2013/07/17/birminghams-choice/

Another wonderfully accurate article.

1) Where is/was the protesting against removing ramps from the I-70/I-71 section of the Columbus, Ohio downtown loop?  Looks like a fairly similar project, albeit with a depressed freeway.

1) I wasn't aware WI 145 in Milwaukee had an interstate designation.

2) So having traffic that wants to go downtown encounter a stoplight at either 11th Avenue and 17th Street or 11th Avenue and 24th Street would actually be worse than having all the traffic on I-20/I-59 exiting onto 11th Avenue and probably having a nice queue to sit in for a little bit to get downtown?  Like the nice little queues one finds on the transition from the Central Freeway to Octavia Boulevard in San Francisco or on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago when entering the Loop area?

3) The removal of the WI 145 freeway in Milwaukee would be closer to Birmingham removing the US 280 freeway - which is still not really a fair comparison since the east end of the WI 145 freeway did not tie into a pair of decent sized arterials that continue onward beyond the limits of the metro area.

4) So how much would upgrading I-459 to permanently handle through traffic from a diverted I-20 and I-59 cost?

5) "Road capacity is directly linked to deaths"  I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the capacity relative to the volume using the road.  And how many pedestrian accidents are there now in the corridor versus what the number would be with a large surface street?  And look, it appears to be another speed kills argument instead of the speed differential that actually does the killing (the 65 mph car versus the 0 mph fixed object for example).

6) I-85 doesn't exactly go through the outskirts of Montgomery, nor does I-565 bypass Huntsville.

7) Google indicates that the TCH 1 freeway runs through the northeastern corner of Vancouver.

8) I'm seeing mostly depressed freeways in Detroit when I survey the aerial imagery.

[froggie]

Would it really cost that much more to make the bridge a little higher so it wouldn't be as gloomy beneath?

Overhead is still gloomy, regardless of how high you put the bridge.  Only way to alleviate the gloominess is to remove the bridge...whether it be depressing or (better yet) burying 20/59, or converting it into a surface boulevard as Norquist suggests.

6) I-85 doesn't exactly go through the outskirts of Montgomery, nor does I-565 bypass Huntsville.

True, but neither do they cleave downtown in two like I-20/59 does with Birmingham.  Not even I-10 does that in Mobile, though it comes close.

[Anthony_JK]

Would it really cost that much more to make the bridge a little higher so it wouldn't be as gloomy beneath?

Overhead is still gloomy, regardless of how high you put the bridge.  Only way to alleviate the gloominess is to remove the bridge...whether it be depressing or (better yet) burying 20/59, or converting it into a surface boulevard as Norquist suggests.

Personally, I'd still prefer a little bit of gloom that allows traffic to pass through and underneath than an at-grade surface road totally insufficient to handle the traffic. Plus, as is being done with I-49 in Lafayette, a lot of the "gloom" can be mitigated with CSS design and landscape/joint use upgrades.

6) I-85 doesn't exactly go through the outskirts of Montgomery, nor does I-565 bypass Huntsville.

True, but neither do they cleave downtown in two like I-20/59 does with Birmingham.  Not even I-10 does that in Mobile, though it comes close.

Cut and cap can work in some areas, but doesn't work so well in others due to high water tables, utility relocations, etc.

[Grzrd]

ALDOT has posted materials from their recent public involvment meeting to rebuild the I-20/59 viaduct through downtown Birmingham.

This article has ALDOT Director John Cooper commenting on the I-20/I-59 viaduct rebuild, as well as Cooper commenting on US 280, the Northern Beltline, and the I-22/I-65 interchange.

[Tourian]

Good to read that all major projects are still rightfully on the table and moving forward. Specifically the northern belt line.

[hbelkins]

That said, the enactment of MAP-21 last summer altered the ARC funding formula to allow 100% federal funding for ADHS projects

Well, there's the answer for building Virginia's part of Corridor H.

[Avalanchez71]

ALDOT has posted materials from their recent public involvment meeting to rebuild the I-20/59 viaduct through downtown Birmingham.

This article has ALDOT Director John Cooper commenting on the I-20/I-59 viaduct rebuild, as well as Cooper commenting on US 280, the Northern Beltline, and the I-22/I-65 interchange.

That doesn't need a rebuild.  The junction with I-65 does.

[Tourian]

It most certainly does need a rebuild. It has been pushed beyond both its service life and limits. The junction needs love too but this viaduct is far more crucial.

[Tomahawkin]

Does Anyone know why I-20 is Closed at the SE corridor Interchange with I-459? It Took me 35 Minutes to go from 459 to I-65 to catch Daniel Payne Blvd (The Temp I-22 shortcut). Im Hoping that they are finally widening out that 2 mile long interstate 20 Viaduct that precedes its merge with 59. That Viaduct needed to be widened 20 years ago....

[froggie]

I've heard they are re-decking the viaduct, but not widening it.  I could be wrong on that...it's been awhile since I was on ALDOT's website (last couple times I attempted inport, it didn't work).

[codyg1985]

It is indeed redecking the viaduct without widening it, as well as concrete pavement rebuilding in the area. The eastbound lanes are done, and now they are working on the westbound lanes.

[SSF]

westbound lanes were great to drive over on Tuesday, I commend ALDOT for doing a fine job on it.

[BamaZeus]

http://weldbham.com/blog/2013/09/27/more-changes-on-the-way-for-aldots-2059-plan/

This says there's an alternate plan out there to maybe move 20/59 along the Finley Boulevard corridor?

[NE2]

This says there's an alternate plan out there to maybe move 20/59 along the Finley Boulevard corridor?

Not a bad idea - it would mirror recent relocations in Fort Worth and Oklahoma City that moved a freeway to an industrial railroad corridor.

[Grzrd]

This article .... other "intown bypass" options ...  extending Finley Boulevard to connect with AL 79 near the airport:

A third option would be to create a downtown bypass by extending Finley Boulevard.
City planners have long considered the possibility of a secondary route that could take truck traffic from Finley's beginning near I-20/59 at Arkadelphia Road and connect it over to Alabama 79 near the airport.
The extension of Finley into Collegeville and beyond is being actively pursued, though the planned project would have a much smaller footprint than would be required for a true highway. The route also would cut across homes and potentially contaminated industrial sites.

(above quote from Birmingham Northern Beltline thread)

http://weldbham.com/blog/2013/09/27/more-changes-on-the-way-for-aldots-2059-plan/
This says there's an alternate plan out there to maybe move 20/59 along the Finley Boulevard corridor?

Interesting. If they are now considering the conversion of Finley into an interstate-grade corridor, then it seems like it could also serve as a de facto I-22 extension overlap from I-65 to the AL 79 vicinity that would create a more direct route for Atlanta-Memphis traffic and avoid Malfunction Junction.

[Henry]

This article .... other "intown bypass" options ...  extending Finley Boulevard to connect with AL 79 near the airport:

A third option would be to create a downtown bypass by extending Finley Boulevard.
City planners have long considered the possibility of a secondary route that could take truck traffic from Finley's beginning near I-20/59 at Arkadelphia Road and connect it over to Alabama 79 near the airport.
The extension of Finley into Collegeville and beyond is being actively pursued, though the planned project would have a much smaller footprint than would be required for a true highway. The route also would cut across homes and potentially contaminated industrial sites.

(above quote from Birmingham Northern Beltline thread)

http://weldbham.com/blog/2013/09/27/more-changes-on-the-way-for-aldots-2059-plan/
This says there's an alternate plan out there to maybe move 20/59 along the Finley Boulevard corridor?

Interesting. If they are now considering the conversion of Finley into an interstate-grade corridor, then it seems like it could also serve as a de facto I-22 extension overlap from I-65 to the AL 79 vicinity that would create a more direct route for Atlanta-Memphis traffic and avoid Malfunction Junction.

Any chance we could see a map of the proposed reroute?

[NE2]

Any chance we could see a map of the proposed reroute?

It's pretty obvious how it would generally run: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Finley+Blvd,+Birmingham,+Alabama

[Grzrd]

Any chance we could see a map of the proposed reroute?

No map, but this Sept. 26 article provides an ALDOT cost estimate of $1.5 billion for a Finley I-65-to-Tallapoosa Street routing and an ALDOT cost estimate of $2 billion for a Finley Arkadelphia Road-to-Tallapoosa Street routing:

ALDOT Director John Cooper ....
Rerouting the interstate: ALDOT once considered extending Interstate 22 from Interstate 65 to U.S. 31 and I-20/59 at Tallapoosa Street.
ALDOT estimates shifting I-20/59 north, roughly along Finley Boulevard toward I-65, would need about 150 acres for construction, take out about 30 homes and 30 businesses, run over an abandoned, filled quarry near I-65, open up the department to environmental justice challenges and cross old hazardous materials sites, Cooper said.
"The significance of a hazmat site is if you disturb it, then you're obligated fix it," Cooper said. "In roadbuilding, we've learned that we have to be cautious about disturbing hazmat sites."
The rerouting also would force I-65 to carry more traffic and force reconstruction of Malfunction Junction and the U.S. 31 interchange east of downtown.
The old road bed for I-20/59 along downtown would have to be rebuilt as a roadway, which would probably be a city undertaking, he said.
"Standard ALDOT estimating techniques" -- done by a contracted firm -- show the price tag would be about $1.5 billion, Cooper said.
There would be similar issues if the interstate was rerouted roughly along Finley Boulevard from Tallapoosa Street to Arkadelphia Road, with about 260 acres, more than 200 homes and more than 80 businesses claimed for a total price tag of $2 billion, he said.

However, a representative of Rethink I-20/59 maintains that a direct route from the Coosa Street area to I-65 would cost less than $500 million:

Joseph Baker, with the Rethink I-20/59 group calling for changes they say are more conducive to downtown development, said that no one is advocating sinking the interstate anymore because of the project's expense and difficulty.
But Baker questions ALDOT's estimate for rerouting the interstate, saying that a direct route from the Coosa Street area to Interstate 65 would cost less than a one-quarter of ALDOT's $2 billion estimate.