New York State Thruway

[cockroachking]

No, NYSTA built and owns them, but NYSDOT is the only agency in NY to my knowledge that published a bridge inventory, and it includes every road bridge in the state, no matter the owner.

[jmacswimmer]

The full proposal is up. 5 % increases for NY EZPasses in 2024 and 2027, out of state and toll by mail rates jump to 75% above NY EZpass rates. Tappan Zee tolls increase each year.

https://www.thruway.ny.gov/news/adjustment/index.html

IIRC, there are not any significant interagency fees or markups  for out of state transponders, but interagency processing/settlements/disputes (initiated by users) in theory take up some time and $. But not enough to justify a huge differential. EZPass publishes derailed rules and standards for toll agencies if anyone is so inclined to read them, they provide some interesting operational details.

Reading about this has me pondering whether it makes sense in the future to open a New York E-ZPass account (in addition to my Maryland account) purely for road trips to the northeast that would involve NYSTA/PANYNJ/MTAB&T crossings. From perusing the NY E-ZPass website, I discovered they offer a pay-per-trip option that allows you to simply have a checking account debited for each toll rather than pre-paying account funds (which would be perfect for more infrequent use).  The only thing I can't figure out, and was hoping someone here could weigh in on: I understand transponders can be officially issued by either NYSTA, PANYNJ, or MTAB&T, but it's not clear from the website which one you'd get for simply opening a pay-per-trip account without any of the various agency's discount plans. Is it just luck-of-the-draw which one you get? Asking because I see there is a monthly service fee for PANYNJ accounts, but not NYSTA or MTAB&T.

I typically use the Tappan Zee whenever I drive to New England and have no issue with the current $6.61 out-of-state rate (which is only 86 cents over the NY rate), but I agree with the discussion a few pages back that the principle of matching it to the tolls-by-mail rate is rather annoying. I can understand an out-of-state EZ-Pass toll costing slightly more to collect due to interagency processing as you note, which is why I don't mind the 3-tiered system that MDTA & MassDOT (and NYSTA for the moment) use. I recall PANYNJ used to give all E-ZPass users the 2-tiered discount based on peak vs. off-peak (I paid $12.50 for the Goethals with my Maryland account in 2018), but they limited it to NY & NJ accounts only starting with the 2020 toll increase. In addition to the PTC (as vdeane noted a couple pages back), DRJTBC comes to mind as one of the few remaining toll agencies that offers a discounted E-ZPass rate to any & all transponders.

[vdeane]

For online orders, which one is assigned is based on address.  For NYC and Long Island, it's a MTA tag.  For all other NY addresses, it's a Thruway tag.  All out of state addresses get the PANYNJ tag.  The way around this is to buy it at a retail location, but I don't know how that interacts with the pay per trip option.

[jmacswimmer]

For online orders, which one is assigned is based on address.  For NYC and Long Island, it's a MTA tag.  For all other NY addresses, it's a Thruway tag.  All out of state addresses get the PANYNJ tag.  The way around this is to buy it at a retail location, but I don't know how that interacts with the pay per trip option.

Good to know, thanks for the insight. I'll have to stop at one of the Thruway service areas and pick up a transponder whenever I'm up that way again (I would assume the on-the-go tags sold at Thruway service areas are NYSTA tags?) My understanding from reading the pay-per-trip FAQ is that I'd open the account as a typical pre-funded account (with the $25 used to purchase the on-the-go tag), but the account can then be changed to pay-per-trip somewhere in settings. It would then drain the pre-funded balance first and switch to debiting a checking account once that money is gone.

[RobbieL2415]

For online orders, which one is assigned is based on address.  For NYC and Long Island, it's a MTA tag.  For all other NY addresses, it's a Thruway tag.  All out of state addresses get the PANYNJ tag.  The way around this is to buy it at a retail location, but I don't know how that interacts with the pay per trip option.

I live in CT and was issue a MTA B&T tag.

[MASTERNC]

For online orders, which one is assigned is based on address.  For NYC and Long Island, it's a MTA tag.  For all other NY addresses, it's a Thruway tag.  All out of state addresses get the PANYNJ tag.  The way around this is to buy it at a retail location, but I don't know how that interacts with the pay per trip option.

I don't know about the pay-per-trip option, but I did buy a Thruway tag in Buffalo and registered it first to my grandfather's address in the area (to be safe), then changed to mine the next day.  It has stayed with the Thruway ever since.

[Mr. Matté]

I have a Thruway tag (picked up at Sloatsburg in 2021), logging onto my E-ZPassNY account, I have the option to switch to a bank account. You'll also need to switch your account type from standard to PPT.

[baugh17]

Just putting this out there...

https://www.wktv.com/news/local/griffo-pushing-for-changes-to-thruway-numbering-system/article_ca65ce40-9dc5-11ed-9fa1-1b4d3943781d.html?fbclid=IwAR3NFK9vGEZbYIQaMnZ_3SZpOzhxNrjcxVQtjz8mSqoulACbRPKwPeVqgsc

[Rothman]

Just putting this out there...

https://www.wktv.com/news/local/griffo-pushing-for-changes-to-thruway-numbering-system/article_ca65ce40-9dc5-11ed-9fa1-1b4d3943781d.html?fbclid=IwAR3NFK9vGEZbYIQaMnZ_3SZpOzhxNrjcxVQtjz8mSqoulACbRPKwPeVqgsc

Thruway: "We're too stupid to figure it out."

Despite the fact every other state did...

[kalvado]

Just putting this out there...

https://www.wktv.com/news/local/griffo-pushing-for-changes-to-thruway-numbering-system/article_ca65ce40-9dc5-11ed-9fa1-1b4d3943781d.html?fbclid=IwAR3NFK9vGEZbYIQaMnZ_3SZpOzhxNrjcxVQtjz8mSqoulACbRPKwPeVqgsc

Thruway: "We're too stupid to figure it out."

Despite the fact every other state did...

Thruway PR director: Hey, someone, there is a letter from an idiot. Can someone  write some bullshit back so they get lost? Are there any interns available?

[froggie]

There's enough obstinance in the Thruway Authority to where I think legislation is the ONLY way it will happen.

[SignBridge]

Just putting this out there...

https://www.wktv.com/news/local/griffo-pushing-for-changes-to-thruway-numbering-system/article_ca65ce40-9dc5-11ed-9fa1-1b4d3943781d.html?fbclid=IwAR3NFK9vGEZbYIQaMnZ_3SZpOzhxNrjcxVQtjz8mSqoulACbRPKwPeVqgsc

Thruway: "We're too stupid to figure it out."

Despite the fact every other state did...

Thruway PR director: Hey, someone, there is a letter from an idiot. Can someone  write some bullshit back so they get lost? Are there any interns available?

Those NYSTA people are either BS-ing us or they're very ignorant. The stumbling blocks they mention such as closely spaced exits within a mile  and concurrent/overlapping routes are addressed in the MUTCD.

[Roadgeek Adam]

They have no desire to comply. That's been obvious for a long time.

[PurdueBill]

Just putting this out there...

https://www.wktv.com/news/local/griffo-pushing-for-changes-to-thruway-numbering-system/article_ca65ce40-9dc5-11ed-9fa1-1b4d3943781d.html?fbclid=IwAR3NFK9vGEZbYIQaMnZ_3SZpOzhxNrjcxVQtjz8mSqoulACbRPKwPeVqgsc

Thruway: "We're too stupid to figure it out."

Despite the fact every other state did...

Thruway PR director: Hey, someone, there is a letter from an idiot. Can someone  write some bullshit back so they get lost? Are there any interns available?

The comments on the news story are also groaners. Lots of the usual false dichotomy of saying someone plans on doing this instead of doing that when in reality, they can actually do both.

If the Thruway went from Exit 1 at NYC to Exit 496 at the PA line, at least it would be consistent through the Thruway, even if backwards on the I-90 part.  The Ohio Turnpike carries one set of exit numbers across 80/90, just 80, and just 76, helped by the non-duplication of nearby exit numbers on 76 thanks to a large jump.

I suppose the Thruway will counter that if they continue the mileage-based numbering on 90, increasing westbound, the same numbers might be used on the Northway if NYSDOT went mileage-based too as 87's mileage would continue from the Thruway mileage.  Oh well, it's not rare for similar exit numbers on different roads in an area--people can figure it out. 

[vdeane]

^ FHWA would want the mileage and exit numbers to follow I-87 and I-90, not the Thruway, which is probably the reason the Thruway Authority is so resistant in the first place.  I doubt they'd care so much if they could number the exits 1A-495.  Unlike NYSDOT, the Thruway doesn't do reference markers, so everything they have is likely inventoried according to milepoint from the NYC line.  If they were to switch, suddenly all their records would be wrong.  I would think it would be easy enough to set up a conversion table, especially with everything computerized these days, but institutional inertia is real.

With the recent switch to AET and their insistence on spamming E-ZPass statements with every gantry read, there is no longer any need to keep the entire former ticket system on one numbering system.  Further, that "multiple exits in a mile" situation hardly ever happens on the mainline north of Yonkers (where it would honestly make sense since exits 1-5 are basically blended anyways) - and where it does, the exits already share a number with alphabet soup.  That said, the Thruway clearly has no interest.  Recent sign replacements don't even leave open the possibility without replacing exit tabs or even the whole sign.

[Jim]

Seems to me it's way past time to abolish NYSTA and roll its operations into the DOT, like, as I understand it, Massachusetts managed to do.

[akotchi]

Just putting this out there...

https://www.wktv.com/news/local/griffo-pushing-for-changes-to-thruway-numbering-system/article_ca65ce40-9dc5-11ed-9fa1-1b4d3943781d.html?fbclid=IwAR3NFK9vGEZbYIQaMnZ_3SZpOzhxNrjcxVQtjz8mSqoulACbRPKwPeVqgsc

Thruway: "We're too stupid to figure it out."

Despite the fact every other state did...

Thruway PR director: Hey, someone, there is a letter from an idiot. Can someone  write some bullshit back so they get lost? Are there any interns available?

The comments on the news story are also groaners. Lots of the usual false dichotomy of saying someone plans on doing this instead of doing that when in reality, they can actually do both.

If the Thruway went from Exit 1 at NYC to Exit 496 at the PA line, at least it would be consistent through the Thruway, even if backwards on the I-90 part.  The Ohio Turnpike carries one set of exit numbers across 80/90, just 80, and just 76, helped by the non-duplication of nearby exit numbers on 76 thanks to a large jump.

I suppose the Thruway will counter that if they continue the mileage-based numbering on 90, increasing westbound, the same numbers might be used on the Northway if NYSDOT went mileage-based too as 87's mileage would continue from the Thruway mileage.  Oh well, it's not rare for similar exit numbers on different roads in an area--people can figure it out. 

Philadelphia-area folks have gotten used to similar exit numbers on I-76 (Schuykill Expy.) and I-276 (Turnpike) east of the Valley Forge interchange . . .

[jp the roadgeek]

Just putting this out there...

https://www.wktv.com/news/local/griffo-pushing-for-changes-to-thruway-numbering-system/article_ca65ce40-9dc5-11ed-9fa1-1b4d3943781d.html?fbclid=IwAR3NFK9vGEZbYIQaMnZ_3SZpOzhxNrjcxVQtjz8mSqoulACbRPKwPeVqgsc

Thruway: "We're too stupid to figure it out."

Despite the fact every other state did...

Thruway PR director: Hey, someone, there is a letter from an idiot. Can someone  write some bullshit back so they get lost? Are there any interns available?

The comments on the news story are also groaners. Lots of the usual false dichotomy of saying someone plans on doing this instead of doing that when in reality, they can actually do both.

If the Thruway went from Exit 1 at NYC to Exit 496 at the PA line, at least it would be consistent through the Thruway, even if backwards on the I-90 part.  The Ohio Turnpike carries one set of exit numbers across 80/90, just 80, and just 76, helped by the non-duplication of nearby exit numbers on 76 thanks to a large jump.

I suppose the Thruway will counter that if they continue the mileage-based numbering on 90, increasing westbound, the same numbers might be used on the Northway if NYSDOT went mileage-based too as 87's mileage would continue from the Thruway mileage.  Oh well, it's not rare for similar exit numbers on different roads in an area--people can figure it out. 

Philadelphia-area folks have gotten used to similar exit numbers on I-76 (Schuykill Expy.) and I-276 (Turnpike) east of the Valley Forge interchange . . .

The real question with 87's numbers for the Thruway is whether or not they would include Deegan mileage.  If you go by Thruway mileage, you'd still have multiple sets of numbers for 87 even if you continue them onto the Northway. If they went true mileage based for both 87 and 90, the numbers at Exit 24 would actually be used for the NYSRR section that connects the I-90 and I-87 portions because the 24 ramps would be mainline 87 and mainline 90.  Exit 347 would be 90 East to 87 South, and Exit 156 (or 148 if mileposts reset at the Yonkers line) would be I-87 North to I-90 West.  If an internal system is used and 87 resets at the Yonkers line, the Deegan mileage could be added back for the Northway with a sudden jump from 148 to 157.

[Rothman]

Seems to me it's way past time to abolish NYSTA and roll its operations into the DOT, like, as I understand it, Massachusetts managed to do.

Public authorities in NY revel in how independent they are from the State, despite any control the Governor has over the board membership.  Makes me wonder if any public authority was actually abolished in NY ever (i.e., not combined like the ones that became MTA, but actually abolished).  Probably only after corruption that couldn't be ignored.

[kalvado]

There's enough obstinance in the Thruway Authority to where I think legislation is the ONLY way it will happen.

Since NYSTA doesn't get any money from FHWA or NYS, and they are knee deep in debt for the new bridge, and handicapped by toll control... And used  to be a piggy bank for fringe projects.... Unfunded mandate is a so important thing to comply!

[Rothman]

There's enough obstinance in the Thruway Authority to where I think legislation is the ONLY way it will happen.

Since NYSTA doesn't get any money from FHWA or NYS, and they are knee deep in debt for the new bridge, and handicapped by toll control... And used  to be a piggy bank for fringe projects.... Unfunded mandate is a so important thing to comply!

That's not totally true.  For bridges over the Thruway, there are convoluted agreements regarding maintenance between NYSDOT and NYSTA.  I believe typically it is one agency pays 2/3 of the replacement cost, while the other pays a 1/3.  And then, one agency is responsible for the substructure, while the other is responsible for the wearable surface/deck.  I wouldn't be surprised if there were differences from NYSDOT Region to NYSDOT Region, but when NYSDOT is responsible for the minority cost of a bridge replacement, the funding flows from NYSDOT to NYSTA.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[PurdueBill]

^ FHWA would want the mileage and exit numbers to follow I-87 and I-90, not the Thruway, which is probably the reason the Thruway Authority is so resistant in the first place.  I doubt they'd care so much if they could number the exits 1A-495.  Unlike NYSDOT, the Thruway doesn't do reference markers, so everything they have is likely inventoried according to milepoint from the NYC line.  If they were to switch, suddenly all their records would be wrong.  I would think it would be easy enough to set up a conversion table, especially with everything computerized these days, but institutional inertia is real.

With the recent switch to AET and their insistence on spamming E-ZPass statements with every gantry read, there is no longer any need to keep the entire former ticket system on one numbering system.  Further, that "multiple exits in a mile" situation hardly ever happens on the mainline north of Yonkers (where it would honestly make sense since exits 1-5 are basically blended anyways) - and where it does, the exits already share a number with alphabet soup.  That said, the Thruway clearly has no interest.  Recent sign replacements don't even leave open the possibility without replacing exit tabs or even the whole sign.

If the Thruway were to actually be willing to post mileage-based exit numbers from 1 to 496 based on the existing milemakers, then FHWA should be willing to just go along...either side resisting "good" trying to get what they think is "perfect" just ends up in a stalemate like we have now. 
The Kansas Turnpike has continuous numbering over 3 different route numbers (one created just for the sake of the 65 MPH limit) and even makes I-70's exit numbers jump downward and back up--the Thruway having one set would not be the end of the world. Best option probably not, but a better option than the existing situation.

[lstone19]

If the Thruway were to actually be willing to post mileage-based exit numbers from 1 to 496 based on the existing milemakers, then FHWA should be willing to just go along...either side resisting "good" trying to get what they think is "perfect" just ends up in a stalemate like we have now. 
The Kansas Turnpike has continuous numbering over 3 different route numbers (one created just for the sake of the 65 MPH limit) and even makes I-70's exit numbers jump downward and back up--the Thruway having one set would not be the end of the world. Best option probably not, but a better option than the existing situation.

This. I've said this before but I think the obsession with route numbers taking precedence over named toll roads when the toll roads preceded the route numbers and have established history with the public does the public a disservice. Having until just very recently lived in areas with long established toll roads,  I've generally found the toll road name has greater recognition with the public than the number.

Personally, I find the current Pennsylvania Turnpike numbering a confusing mess. There's no longer any consistency when you're on the "Turnpike" so they might as get rid of the Turnpike name and, while they're at it, get rid of the tolls. :-)

Back to the Thruway, it's unfortunate that they've gone from what I used to think of as the gold standard for how to run a toll road to being just another third world toll road with way too much expended on justifying their own opinions and existence.

[webny99]

^ FHWA would want the mileage and exit numbers to follow I-87 and I-90, not the Thruway, which is probably the reason the Thruway Authority is so resistant in the first place.  I doubt they'd care so much if they could number the exits 1A-495.  Unlike NYSDOT, the Thruway doesn't do reference markers, so everything they have is likely inventoried according to milepoint from the NYC line.  If they were to switch, suddenly all their records would be wrong.  I would think it would be easy enough to set up a conversion table, especially with everything computerized these days, but institutional inertia is real.

Certainly true, but I would think the bigger issue as they see it isn't the re-numbering itself, but the fact that mileposts would be duplicated along almost the entire length of the Thruway. Even if there's no duplicate exits, having two of every milepost is still a problem.

[kalvado]

Talking about exit number confusion... Can you try deciphering the highway part of this alert from last Monday's snow storm? I guess it is not an NWS text, but an automatic interpretation by a website. Still a nice puzzle.