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I-240 extension in Oklahoma City

Started by Bobby5280, July 29, 2021, 11:31:09 PM

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Bobby5280

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 29, 2021, 11:20:35 PM
Lots of renumbering and interstate designation extensions coming to central Oklahoma area:

Taken from OKCTalk:

Turnpikes getting Highway Numbers
Item No. 105 - State Highway System Numbering Revisions — Mr. Swift

a) Removal of the SH-152 Designation between JCT I-44/SH-152 and JCT SH-152/John Kilpatrick TP
b) Addition of a new Designation of I-240 to the above section of SH-152, the John Kilpatrick TP, and
the Kickapoo TP
c) Addition of an I-240 Follow Route on portions of I-44 and I-40
d) Addition of a new Designation of SH-4 to the H.E. Bailey Turnpike — Norman Spur
e) Addition of a new Designation of SH-301 to the Chickasaw Turnpike
f) Addition of a new Designation of SH-312 to the Cimarron Turnpike Spur
g) Addition of a new Designation of SH-375 to the Indian Nation Turnpike

QuoteSecretary of Transportation Tim Gatz will update the commission on the next phase of the modernization effort involving three state transportation agencies, ongoing federal funding discussions in U.S. Congress, and proposed state highway numbering designations at Oklahoma turnpike connections.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2021/july/august-transportation-commission-meeting-scheduled-for-monday--a.html

I guess if the I-240 designation is applied to the Kickapoo Turnpike that might do away with any chances of a Southern extension down and over to the Norman/Moore area.

Edited to add quote to facilitate splitting topic. -S.]


Scott5114

#1
Oh wow, what the fuck? The SH-3xx numbers make sense but that overgrown I-240 is going to take a lot of getting used to.



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yakra

"Officer, I'm always careful to drive the speed limit no matter where I am and that's what I was doin'." Said "No, you weren't," she said, "Yes, I was." He said, "Madam, I just clocked you at 22 MPH," and she said "That's the speed limit," he said "No ma'am, that's the route numbah!"  - Gary Crocker

bugo

That I-240 extension is just plain goofy. Is it going to have four cardinal directions? Will there be an overlap (follow route in ODOT-speak) with I-40 east of OKC?
Nobody is on the level of the devil.

Mapmikey

Quote from: bugo on July 30, 2021, 02:21:13 AM
That I-240 extension is just plain goofy. Is it going to have four cardinal directions? Will there be an overlap (follow route in ODOT-speak) with I-40 east of OKC?

It does look goofy...not so much as a beltway as it is a belt buckle.

Scott5114

Quote from: bugo on July 30, 2021, 02:21:13 AM
That I-240 extension is just plain goofy. Is it going to have four cardinal directions? Will there be an overlap (follow route in ODOT-speak) with I-40 east of OKC?

A beltway using all four cardinal directions has precedent (I-435 for instance). According to the proposal, there will be an I-40/I-240/US-270/SH-3 concurrency in far east OKC.
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Bobby5280

Well, I guess if I-240 overlaps the entire Kilpatrick Turnpike that would open the door to extend the I-235 designation North over Broadway extension up to its interchange with the Kilpatrick Turnpike.

Quote from: MapmikeyIt does look goofy...not so much as a beltway as it is a belt buckle.

That's a pretty good, if not hilarious, description.

Quote from: Scott5114According to the proposal, there will be an I-40/I-240/US-270/SH-3 concurrency in far east OKC.

I'm not a big fan of the concurrency. OTOH, that section of future I-40/I-240 on the SE side of OKC did get a fairly decent upgrade recently.

I'm guessing I-44 will also have an overlap with I-240 between the I-35/Kilpatrick interchange and the Kickapoo interchange. That would mean I-44 would have concurrencies with I-240 and I-35 for about 18 miles.

Scott5114

#7
Quote from: Bobby5280 on July 30, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Well, I guess if I-240 overlaps the entire Kilpatrick Turnpike that would open the door to extend the I-235 designation North over Broadway extension up to its interchange with the Kilpatrick Turnpike.

Quote from: MapmikeyIt does look goofy...not so much as a beltway as it is a belt buckle.

That's a pretty good, if not hilarious, description.

Quote from: Scott5114According to the proposal, there will be an I-40/I-240/US-270/SH-3 concurrency in far east OKC.

I'm not a big fan of the concurrency. OTOH, that section of future I-40/I-240 on the SE side of OKC did get a fairly decent upgrade recently.

I'm guessing I-44 will also have an overlap with I-240 between the I-35/Kilpatrick interchange and the Kickapoo interchange. That would mean I-44 would have concurrencies with I-240 and I-35 for about 18 miles.

Yup. Here's a link for the actual text of the proposed resolution: https://www.odot.org/tcomm/agendas21/tc_agenda-202108-r.pdf

I don't mind the concurrencies because they'd functionally exist even if they're not signed (an exit to I-240 north, followed a few miles later by an exit to I-240 west is basically a concurrency whether you sign it or not–not signing it is just pretending you're ArDOT). Someone going, e.g. Tulsa to Lawton, or Tulsa to Norman, or Shawnee to Guthrie, might well follow the I-240 route as designated, so the concurrency makes sense.
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Plutonic Panda

I hope it won't do away with a potential future N-S extension. Both are needed for future growth.

Scott5114

Fun fact, kurumi says...
Quote from: kurumi
The longest full beltway in the U. S. is Interstate 275 encircling Cincinnati.

I-275 is 83.71 miles long.

But Google shows the new I-240 as 91.3 miles.
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sprjus4

Interstate beltway?

Because the SH-8 Sam Houston Tollway is around 88 miles long.

But wow... I-240 would grow from a mere 19 miles to 91!

will_e_777

Is that concurrent section of I-240 and I-44 in southwest OKC is going to have a "West I-240" and "East I-44" signs in the same direction at that interchange with SW 59th?
Rocky Mountain man.

Scott5114

Quote from: will_e_777 on July 31, 2021, 03:31:52 AM
Is that concurrent section of I-240 and I-44 in southwest OKC is going to have a "West I-240" and "East I-44" signs in the same direction at that interchange with SW 59th?

Yeah, probably. (It already has East I-44 and West SH-3 signs.)
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The Ghostbuster

Are they really proposing this? This sounds more like a Fictional Highways proposal to me. If the Kickapoo Turnpike and the John Kilpatrick Turnpike were to join the Interstate system, they should have separate designations like 440 or 640.

Mapmikey

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 31, 2021, 12:10:10 PM
Are they really proposing this? This sounds more like a Fictional Highways proposal to me. If the Kickapoo Turnpike and the John Kilpatrick Turnpike were to join the Interstate system, they should have separate designations like 440 or 640.

Reply #7 has the link to the ODOT meeting agenda for August 2 which really does do this.

I suppose they could always vote 'no' at the actual meeting...

Revive 755

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 31, 2021, 12:10:10 PM
Are they really proposing this? This sounds more like a Fictional Highways proposal to me. If the Kickapoo Turnpike and the John Kilpatrick Turnpike were to join the Interstate system, they should have separate designations like 440 or 640.

I could see the Kilpatrick Turnpike as an I-x44.  Though I don't see much of a problem having it as part of I-240 since it does provide a bypass/alternate route for I-40 and it's probably better not to have the number change at the I-40 interchange in Yukon.

IMHO the Kickapoo Turnpike should have been given a separate number in case it does get extended, or a disconnected but nearby facility serving as an extension is ultimately built.

sprjus4

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 31, 2021, 12:10:10 PM
Are they really proposing this? This sounds more like a Fictional Highways proposal to me. If the Kickapoo Turnpike and the John Kilpatrick Turnpike were to join the Interstate system, they should have separate designations like 440 or 640.
I could reasonably see the Kilpatrick Turnpike and SH-152 being converted into I-240 to create a 3/4 interstate beltway, but I question the Kickapoo Turnpike being apart of it given the concurrences necessary with I-40 and I-44. It functions more of a connector / bypass route than anything, independent of any Oklahoma City beltway.

okroads

I guess this is one way for there to be exit numbers and mile markers that make more sense on the Kilpatrick and Kickapoo turnpikes... but this was totally unexpected.

The Kickapoo can still be extended southward and knowing ODOT they would make it part of I-240. It would be like Indiana's former I-465 routing except longer.

bugo

Yeah, the first thing I did when I saw this proposal was to look at the calendar and make sure it wasn't the first day of April. This whole proposal is just silly, If they ended it at the Kilpatrick/I-35/I-44 interchange, it would be fine, but making the Kilpatrick part of it borders on the absurd, and the overlaps with I-40 and I-44 are awkward and pointless. It's like they are trying way too hard. Extend the current I-240 along I-44, OK 152 and the Kilpatrick to end at the I-35/44 split. The Kickapoo could be I-140, 640, OK 340 or they could even resurrect the old I-440 designation. No x44 designations in OKC because Tulsa might need them in the future. Whoever came up with this boneheaded idea must have stopped by the dispensary on the way to work and bought one of those 1000mg candy bars and gobbled it down. That's the only rational explanation.
Nobody is on the level of the devil.

Scott5114

Quote from: bugo on July 31, 2021, 03:26:38 PM
Whoever came up with this boneheaded idea must have stopped by the dispensary on the way to work and bought one of those 1000mg candy bars and gobbled it down. That's the only rational explanation.

I tried to draw a sign panel while high just to see if it would explain ODOT's tendencies. It took me an hour and a half to lay out an EXIT ONLY panel, but it came out to KDOT spec, so I'm not 100% sure we can blame cannabis for anything they do.
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bugo

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 31, 2021, 04:53:39 PM
I tried to draw a sign panel while high just to see if it would explain ODOT's tendencies. It took me an hour and a half to lay out an EXIT ONLY panel, but it came out to KDOT spec, so I'm not 100% sure we can blame cannabis for anything they do.

You have to take the full 1000mg to make it work. You have to take so much that you're doubled over in misery before it kicks in hard enough to design signs in the styles of ODOT and OTA. To put that in perspective, I have a fairly high tolerance, and 100mg is about the sweet spot. 150mg has me feeling a bit uncomfortable. The recommended dose for first time patients is 5-10mg. 1000mg would make me very, very sick for about 12 hours. And being that sick is a good reason to design signs like the two agencies do.
Nobody is on the level of the devil.

Stephane Dumas

Let's see how long before Google maps, Bing Maps, Open Street Maps, Apple Maps and even Mapquest will jump the gun and put I-240 markers on Kilpatrick Tpk.

bugo

Quote from: Bobby5280 on July 30, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
Well, I guess if I-240 overlaps the entire Kilpatrick Turnpike that would open the door to extend the I-235 designation North over Broadway extension up to its interchange with the Kilpatrick Turnpike.

This is an excellent point, one that I hadn't considered. Is this stretch of US 77 up to I-standards? I can't remember if I've ever driven it or not.
Nobody is on the level of the devil.

bugo

Quote from: Revive 755 on July 31, 2021, 12:25:23 PM
I could see the Kilpatrick Turnpike as an I-x44.  Though I don't see much of a problem having it as part of I-240 since it does provide a bypass/alternate route for I-40 and its probably better not to have the number change at the I-40 interchange in Yukon.

No. No x44s outside of Tulsa. There is only one 2 digit Interstate in Tulsa, and they may need some of those x44 numbers for future interstates. The Kick-a-poo Turnpike intersects I-40, so make it an x40. Definitely no x44s in Oklahoma City, because they have 3 2 digit Interstates to work with. If ODOT and the OTA decided to make the Gilcrease Turnpike/Expressway I-644 and the Creek Turnpike I-844, they're suddenly out of even 2 digit Interstates. Wasting x44s in Oklahoma City is a bad idea.

The only other place I could see an x44 is in Lawton.
Nobody is on the level of the devil.

Stephane Dumas

Slightly off-topic but I checked Streetview showing some stubs on Kilpatrick Tpk/Future I-240 showing a stub at the exit ramp for 29th St SW. https://goo.gl/maps/ySvW5yAfchCEpWhb7   Did they plan to add service roads in the future?



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