Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[ITB]

I think, even if I-69 did not exist, SR 37 would have been turned into a freeway between Indy and Bloomington at some point. There are two major highways that aren't interstates radiating out from Indianapolis, US 31 to the north and SR 37 to the south. I figure by this point there would have been a push to turn SR 37 similar to what was done to US 31 north of Indy.

I agree with this assessment. Over the past 30 years, the population of Bloomington and Monroe County has grown significantly. And, of course, as population has increased so has traffic. There are now a good number of Bloomingtonians who commute daily to jobs in the Indianapolis area. Not that long ago nearly all the SR 37 crossings in Bloomington – SR 46, SR 45, Third Street (SR 48), Tapp Road, Vernal Pike, and others – were at grade. Arlington Road, the principal arterial roadway from Bloomington to Ellettsville and points northwest, was the exception and was carried over SR 37 via an overpass. By the 1980s and 90s, the at-grade intersections were becoming traffic snarled, so interchanges were built at SR 45 (Bloomfield Road), SR 48 (Third Street), and SR 46. With each passing year, it was becoming more apparent that, at some point, SR 37 would become a freeway between Indianapolis and Bloomington. It was just a matter of time.

Edit: grammar

[X99]

What is the detour going to be like- two lane roads through Martinsville, then four lanes down 67?

I think, even if I-69 did not exist, SR 37 would have been turned into a freeway between Indy and Bloomington at some point. There are two major highways that aren't interstates radiating out from Indianapolis, US 31 to the north and SR 37 to the south. I figure by this point there would have been a push to turn SR 37 similar to what was done to US 31 north of Indy.

-->  Not in Indiana, they would just add more stoplights .  SR 37 should have been a freeway in the early 70s when the four laned SR 37 all the way to Mitchel.  Any other state I lived in would have done that.

(The quote button is in the top right of the post, just so you know.)

[tdindy88]

What is the detour going to be like- two lane roads through Martinsville, then four lanes down 67?

SR 39 through Martinsville will be temporarily configured to have four lanes through town in between SR 37 and SR 67.

[mgk920]

What is the detour going to be like- two lane roads through Martinsville, then four lanes down 67?

SR 39 through Martinsville will be temporarily configured to have four lanes through town in between SR 37 and SR 67.

I can't imagine what that'll be like after Hoosier home games.   

Mike

[ibthebigd]

What is the detour going to be like- two lane roads through Martinsville, then four lanes down 67?

SR 39 through Martinsville will be temporarily configured to have four lanes through town in between SR 37 and SR 67.

I can't imagine what that'll be like after Hoosier home games.   

Mike

That's what I was wondering about if they would try to reopen it by Labor Day

SM-G950U

[ITB]

What is the detour going to be like- two lane roads through Martinsville, then four lanes down 67?

SR 39 through Martinsville will be temporarily configured to have four lanes through town in between SR 37 and SR 67.

For most of its length in Martinsville, SR 39/Morton Ave will be temporarily configured to have four lanes. However, the road will be two lanes in the vicinity of the railroad crossing just north of Mitchell Ave. The reason is that to widen the road at the railroad crossing would have involved another study, which would have taken another year or so to complete. This problem has been known since the project's inception. Yes, it's going to be a choke point – and everyone knows it – but there's little to be done about it.


Courtesy INDOT

[edwaleni]

For reasons unknown to me, Martinsville has no less than 5 auto parts stores on Morton Avenue in less than 1 mile.

CarQuest
NAPA (2 of them)
O'Reilly
AutoZone

For a town that size, that is a lot of car parts being sold.

The funnest place to set up a webcam will be right in front of the Martin County Jail.

That is where the bottleneck at Morgan Street will be.  And I can't wait to see when ISRR (Indiana Southern) will bring a train down.

That will back up the northbound all the way back through town on onto I-69.

I have a feeling the Hardee's on the north side of town is going to do a boomer of business. The McDonalds is too well hidden off Morton.

Either way, slow moving traffic will mean big business for the local retail.

[andy]

The funnest place to set up a webcam will be right in front of the Martin County Jail.

Fun fact, Martinsville is not in Martin County. It is in Morgan County. Martin County is further south with Crane, Loogootee and Shoals.

And webcam in front of its jail would be quite boring.

[edwaleni]

The funnest place to set up a webcam will be right in front of the Martin County Jail.

Fun fact, Martinsville is not in Martin County. It is in Morgan County. Martin County is further south with Crane, Loogootee and Shoals.

And webcam in front of its jail would be quite boring.

Thanks for the correction. It is Morgan County!

[edwaleni]

The funnest place to set up a webcam will be right in front of the Martin County Jail.

And webcam in front of its jail would be quite boring.

It's where the lanes converge. I figure it will have a host of queue jumpers on the grass, rear enders and other outpourings or road rage as all that northbound traffic navigates Martinsville.

[andy]

The funnest place to set up a webcam will be right in front of the Martin County Jail.

And webcam in front of its jail would be quite boring.

It's where the lanes converge. I figure it will have a host of queue jumpers on the grass, rear enders and other outpourings or road rage as all that northbound traffic navigates Martinsville.

True for the Morgan county jail. Not Martin. I was trying to be too clever in my comment.

[ITB]

Next year, as most of you know, State Road 37 will closed in Martinsville to facilitate the construction of Interstate 69. Traffic will be directed to SR 67 and then down SR 39/Morton Street, which will join SR 37 just south of Martinsville. But, interestingly, a little over a hundred years ago, in 1917, contemporary road guides also strongly recommended motorists take a detour to reach Bloomington.

Scarborough's Official Tour Book 1917 Indiana Ohio Michigan Illinois Wisconsin and Trunk Lines

The title page of the motoring guide.


In the 1910s, motoring guides in the United States used the word "Trip" and a number to describe how to get from one place to another. As detailed above, to travel from Indianapolis to French Lick, one used Trip 753 via the Dixie Highway. After Martinsville was reached, instead of continuing on the Bloomington on the Dixie, motorists were encouraged to detour to Gosport by way of Trip 761 and then down to Bloomington via Trip 905. All this due to the, ahem, "very rough" nature of the roadway between Martinsville and Bloomington.


Continuation of Trip 753 between Martinsville and Bloomington.

Dixie Highway/Old State Road 37 Bridge – Indian Creek

The bridge that carried the Dixie Highway and later Old State Road 37 over Indian Creek in Morgan County just south of Martinsville. This bridge is denoted in Scarborough's Trip 753 (see 2nd image above) between Martinsville and Bloomington at mile point "3.0 Bridge". Photo was taken August 27, 2017.


Another perspective of the Indian Creek bridge in Morgan County, Indiana; looking south. August 27, 2017.

[edwaleni]

I believe that bridge over Indian Creek is closed now. Morgan County Highway Department had it down to 3 tons only and then the closed signs popped up.

Last I heard Martinsville wants to save it for a bike trail along I-69.

Is it even there anymore?

**This bridge is no longer in the current National Bridge Inventory database, and has likely been demolished or abandoned**

Good/Fair/Poor Condition:   Poor
Status:   Posted for load [P]
Average daily traffic:   510 [as of 2010]
Truck traffic:   5% of total traffic
Deck condition:   Fair [5 out of 9]
Superstructure condition:   Serious [3 out of 9]
Substructure condition:   Poor [4 out of 9]
Structural appraisal:   Basically intolerable requiring high priority of replacement [2]
Deck geometry appraisal:   Basically intolerable requiring high priority of replacement [2]
Water adequacy appraisal:   Meets minimum tolerable limits to be left in place as is [4]
Roadway alignment appraisal:   Equal to present minimum criteria [6]
Channel protection:   Bank and embankment protection is severely undermined. River control devices have severe damage. Large deposits of debris are in the channel. [4]
Scour condition:   Bridge foundations determined to be stable for assessed or calculated scour conditions; field review indicates action is required. [4]
Sufficiency rating:   16.0
Recommended work:   Replacement of bridge or other structure because of substandard load carrying capacity or substantial bridge roadway geometry. [31]
Estimated cost of work:   $1,455,000

[ITB]

I believe that bridge over Indian Creek is closed now. Morgan County Highway Department had it down to 3 tons only and then the closed signs popped up.

Last I heard Martinsville wants to save it for a bike trail along I-69.

Is it even there anymore?

Yup, it's still there. It's been closed for a few years, and bollards are now in place to prevent vehicular access. As part of Section 6, roadway pavement north of the bridge is to be removed, but the bridge itself will not be touched.

Here's a link to the bridge's listing on BridgeHunter.com:

https://bridgehunter.com/in/morgan/5500142/

[Roadgeekteen]

Only sort of related, but I noticed that I-69 north does not have a control city from I-64. Why is that?

[sprjus4]

Only sort of related, but I noticed that I-69 north does not have a control city from I-64. Why is that?

I believe they wanted to wait to finish the highway to Indianapolis in order to sign "Indianapolis" , though realistically it should be allowed to be posted now.

[Roadgeekteen]

Only sort of related, but I noticed that I-69 north does not have a control city from I-64. Why is that?

I believe they wanted to wait to finish the highway to Indianapolis in order to sign "Indianapolis" , though realistically it should be allowed to be posted now.

Doesn't stop Connecticut from posting Providence for the never finished highway there. They should just sign Bloomington if they really don't want to post Indianapolis.

[ilpt4u]

Only sort of related, but I noticed that I-69 north does not have a control city from I-64. Why is that?

From the Lloyd Expressway in Evansville (IN 66 where it meets I-69), neither NB nor SB I-69 has a Control City. I assume waiting until the Martinsville to 465 section done to sign Indy for NB, and then for the new Ohio River Bridge to sign, Memphis? for SB

[amroad17]

Only sort of related, but I noticed that I-69 north does not have a control city from I-64. Why is that?

From the Lloyd Expressway in Evansville (IN 66 where it meets I-69), neither NB nor SB I-69 has a Control City. I assume waiting until the Martinsville to 465 section done to sign Indy for NB, and then for the new Ohio River Bridge to sign, Memphis? for SB

My guess would be either Madisonville or Fulton, as Kentucky has Fulton as a control city for I-69 SB where it makes the turn onto the (former) Western Kentucky/(former) Wendell H. Ford Parkway section.  If I-69 was mostly complete to Memphis, I would want to see Memphis as the control city.  As of now, though, it would probably be Fulton.

Indiana does seem a bit slow in marking control cities on new highways.

[ilpt4u]

Only sort of related, but I noticed that I-69 north does not have a control city from I-64. Why is that?

From the Lloyd Expressway in Evansville (IN 66 where it meets I-69), neither NB nor SB I-69 has a Control City. I assume waiting until the Martinsville to 465 section done to sign Indy for NB, and then for the new Ohio River Bridge to sign, Memphis? for SB

My guess would be either Madisonville or Fulton, as Kentucky has Fulton as a control city for I-69 SB where it makes the turn onto the (former) Western Kentucky/(former) Wendell H. Ford Parkway section.  If I-69 was mostly complete to Memphis, I would want to see Memphis as the control city.  As of now, though, it would probably be Fulton.

Indiana does seem a bit slow in marking control cities on new highways.

My thought regarding that: InDOT sometimes seems to prefer larger cities as Controls (or a state, as Ohio on the Toll Road says hello)

On I-65: In-state Lafayette and Columbus, IN are passed over for Chicago and Louisville
On I-74: Champaign and Bloomington, IL are passed over for Peoria, IL

But on the flip side...
On I-70: Dayton, OH is signed
On I-69: NB from Indy, Fort Wayne is signed. From the Toll Road and 469, NB is signed Lansing, MI.

Henderson, KY already appears for 69 SB @ I-64. At other Evansville interchanges, I doubt Henderson stays, but maybe. Nashville would be an All Freeway route from Evansville once the bridge is complete (69->Pennyrile->24), but other than Chicago on I-65, InDOT isn't big on signing a Control that the numbered route does not enter/visit (and even 65 enters the Chicagoland/NW IN metro area)

Kentucky Dam would be possible. It appears as a Control on I-24 in Paducah. Since I-69 is multiplexed onto 24 in the dam area, never know

InDOT could pull an IDOT (along with other DOTs) and use an I-24 shield as a control for I-69 SB from Evansville, as 69 multiplexes continuing SB/WB, or if one continues on the Pennyrile instead of following 69 onto the W KY Pkwy, the Pennyrile terminates at I-24 south of the I-69/Pennyrile/W KY Pkwy interchange. Either way, I-24 appears

[abqtraveler]

Only sort of related, but I noticed that I-69 north does not have a control city from I-64. Why is that?

From the Lloyd Expressway in Evansville (IN 66 where it meets I-69), neither NB nor SB I-69 has a Control City. I assume waiting until the Martinsville to 465 section done to sign Indy for NB, and then for the new Ohio River Bridge to sign, Memphis? for SB

My guess would be either Madisonville or Fulton, as Kentucky has Fulton as a control city for I-69 SB where it makes the turn onto the (former) Western Kentucky/(former) Wendell H. Ford Parkway section.  If I-69 was mostly complete to Memphis, I would want to see Memphis as the control city.  As of now, though, it would probably be Fulton.

Indiana does seem a bit slow in marking control cities on new highways.

My thought regarding that: InDOT sometimes seems to prefer larger cities as Controls (or a state, as Ohio on the Toll Road says hello)

On I-65: In-state Lafayette and Columbus, IN are passed over for Chicago and Louisville
On I-74: Champaign and Bloomington, IL are passed over for Peoria, IL

But on the flip side...
On I-70: Dayton, OH is signed
On I-69: NB from Indy, Fort Wayne is signed. From the Toll Road and 469, NB is signed Lansing, MI.

Henderson, KY already appears for 69 SB @ I-64. At other Evansville interchanges, I doubt Henderson stays, but maybe. Nashville would be an All Freeway route from Evansville once the bridge is complete (69->Pennyrile->24), but other than Chicago on I-65, InDOT isn't big on signing a Control that the numbered route does not enter/visit (and even 65 enters the Chicagoland/NW IN metro area)

Kentucky Dam would be possible. It appears as a Control on I-24 in Paducah. Since I-69 is multiplexed onto 24 in the dam area, never know

InDOT could pull an IDOT (along with other DOTs) and use an I-24 shield as a control for I-69 SB from Evansville, as 69 multiplexes continuing SB/WB, or if one continues on the Pennyrile instead of following 69 onto the W KY Pkwy, the Pennyrile terminates at I-24 south of the I-69/Pennyrile/W KY Pkwy interchange. Either way, I-24 appears

They could also list Memphis as a control city. Is Memphis far away? Yes, but not unprecedented for INDOT, as there are signs on I-80 (Borman Expressway) in northwest Indiana listing Des Moines, IA (about 350 miles away) as the control city.

[tdindy88]

I know I mentioned this somewhere else on this thread but personally I think they'll do Henderson on a temporary basis, at least from the Lloyd Expressway south. There's no bloody way they're using Fulton for a control city. Paducah is a small possibility but temporarily I think they'll just use Henderson. You can do far worse than this. Memphis would likely be used in the long-term once the highway's finished in Tennessee. Then again, Nashville's cool to use as well. Maybe they could pull something out of New York and just name the control point Ohio River Bridge.

[Roadgeekteen]

I know I mentioned this somewhere else on this thread but personally I think they'll do Henderson on a temporary basis, at least from the Lloyd Expressway south. There's no bloody way they're using Fulton for a control city. Paducah is a small possibility but temporarily I think they'll just use Henderson. You can do far worse than this. Memphis would likely be used in the long-term once the highway's finished in Tennessee. Then again, Nashville's cool to use as well. Maybe they could pull something out of New York and just name the control point Ohio River Bridge.

What does Kentucky use for I-69 south?

[sprjus4]

as Kentucky has Fulton as a control city for I-69 SB where it makes the turn onto the (former) Western Kentucky/(former) Wendell H. Ford Parkway section.

In Henderson, it's Madisonville for I-69 South.

At the Western Kentucky Pkwy, it's Fulton for I-69 South.

[Roadgeekteen]

as Kentucky has Fulton as a control city for I-69 SB where it makes the turn onto the (former) Western Kentucky/(former) Wendell H. Ford Parkway section.

In Henderson, it's Madisonville for I-69 South.

At the Western Kentucky Pkwy, it's Fulton for I-69 South.

Yeah, I don't see a better choice for Indiana than Henderson.