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Interstate 93 Signing Work

Started by bob7374, May 05, 2012, 04:10:03 PM

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bob7374

Quote from: Steve on April 09, 2013, 11:14:51 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 09, 2013, 08:38:56 AM
Quote from: Steve on April 08, 2013, 05:47:52 PMOh, I'm going Fictional here and I know it, but it would make sense to terminate MA 3 where it meets I-93 and then have US 3 begin at the Storrow Drive interchange. No one thinks of them as the same route.
If one did that, one would likely need to redesignate most of the northern stretch of MA 3A in the South Shore as an extension of MA 203.
I dunno. You have, for example, MD Business 3 extending beyond the terminus of MD 3, when it ought to be Business I-97 (or just part of MD 3, really). I have no problem with running 203 down 3A, as that road has changed numbers many times with no effect on residents. But really, it is a direct northern extension of the entire rest of 3A, so why not just let it be? If you want to gripe, gripe at there being two 3As for two different classes of routes, and as far as I can tell, no mileage connection between them, unlike the MA 1As.
MA 3A is also a continuous route according to MassDOT. Mileage includes the distance along MA/US 3 between the junction of I-93 in Neponset and I-95 in Winchester. My suggestion, if MA 3 were dropped as a designation south of Boston, would be to extend MA 53 north from Quincy to Neponset Circle  and south from Kingston to Plymouth to cover that section of 3A and either make the 3A route between those two sections 53A, or give it a new unused state route number.

Meanwhile, I drove over to Quincy to check whether more Mass Guide Signs at I-93 on-ramps had been changed. The ones at Furnace Brook Parkway (Exit 8) also now indicate I-93/US 1. I took some photos and will provide a link when they get posted. This now means the only remaining on-ramp signage along the SE Expressway which still refers to it as I-93/MA 3 are at Exits 11, 12, and 14 (SB). Signage leading to the I-93/US 1 signed ramps at the Columbia Rd (Exit 15) interchange also need to be updated. One still refers to the Expressway as MA 3 and has not been changed since the 1970s. I don't count a relatively new (1-2 year old) guide sign at the UMass Boston intersection with Morrissey Blvd which also indicates a MA 3 only expressway, which needless to say was wrong from the day it was put up, but knowing MassDOT it may not be replaced anytime soon.


roadman

@bob7434

I can't recall the last time I heard a traffic reporter in the Boston area call the highway between Boston and Braintree as "Route 3".  For that matter, I can't recall the last time it was called "I-93".  It's always been called the Southeast Expressway in reports.

As for the ramp signs in the Columbia Road area, some were put up by the DCR (former MDC), and some were put up as part of a project several years back on Columbia Road.  You can tell these "foreign" guide signs, as most of them have inset borders (which is supposed to be a no-no for "positive contract" signs).
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

bob7374

I've posted photos of the new I-93/US 1 signage plus other new I-93 signage project related photos and comments in this blog entry: http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2013/04/april-i-93-signage-project-update.html

PHLBOS

Quote from: roadman on April 10, 2013, 08:22:01 PM
@bob7434

I can't recall the last time I heard a traffic reporter in the Boston area call the highway between Boston and Braintree as "Route 3".  For that matter, I can't recall the last time it was called "I-93".  It's always been called the Southeast Expressway in reports.
That likely is due to the fact that prior to 1971, the Southeast Expressway north of Granite Ave. had no route number.  MA 3 exited off there and ran along Granite Ave. to Gallivan Blvd. (current MA 203) and continued westward along Gallivan (current MA 203).

Before the 1984/1985 overhaul of the Southeast Expressway, there was an old early 60s era gound-mounted BGS along the northbound expressway that featured a blank square shield with the word NORTH to the right of it along the top 'line' of the BGS.  Prior to '71, I'm sure that BGS once stated 3 NORTH.  I forget what the rest of the BGS listed but it featured button-copy lettering in all CAPS and was referring to the approaching northbound Granite Ave. exit.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Pete from Boston

In this sign replacement they left MA 38 South signs on the new BGSes south of the southern terminus of MA 38.  I tried asking Mass DOT, but this is obviously low on their list of concerns. 

Also, I'm curious about the situation where there's an older sign gantry around there (I think the HOV announcement here: http://goo.gl/maps/IbLc4) with a new electronic message board sitting unused for about a year behind it.


NE2

Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 11, 2013, 10:41:01 PM
In this sign replacement they left MA 38 South signs on the new BGSes south of the southern terminus of MA 38.
Are you sure the south end of Route 38 is at 28, not 99?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

deathtopumpkins

I'm almost certain 38 ends at 99, but this is Massachusetts so you never can be completely certain.
Disclaimer: All posts represent my personal opinions and not those of my employer.

Clinched Highways | Counties Visited

roadman

Quote from: bob7374 on April 10, 2013, 11:13:08 PM
I've posted photos of the new I-93/US 1 signage plus other new I-93 signage project related photos and comments in this blog entry: http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2013/04/april-i-93-signage-project-update.html

As usual, nice photos Bob.  My sources at MassDOT have confirmed your suspicions regarding the staging of the I-93 Randolph to Boston sign work.  The project contractor (Liddell Brothers of Halifax, MA) is currently proceeding with foundation installation and support fabrication for the major overhead and ground-mounted sign supports between Route 24 in Randolph and the Braintree split.  Foundation installation and support fabrication for the section north of the Braintree split to Southampton Street (railroad overpass) in Boston is expected to begin by mid-summer of 2013.

It is also my understanding that none of the existing signs and supports on Route 37 will be replaced under the Randolph to Boston work.  These signs and supports, which were last updated about 2000, are still in relatively good shape.  In addition, there are strong rumblings that MassDOT will be shortly beginning a design project for re-configuring the ramps at the I-93/Route 37 interchange - as I understand it, one of the purposes of the project is to eliminate the very short weave area on I-93 north between the ramp from Route 37 north and the exit to MA 3 south.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

roadman

Quote from: NE2 on April 12, 2013, 12:17:04 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 11, 2013, 10:41:01 PM
In this sign replacement they left MA 38 South signs on the new BGSes south of the southern terminus of MA 38.
Are you sure the south end of Route 38 is at 28, not 99?

In the early 1990s, I had a interesting discussion with an older MassDPW engineer about the history of the numbered routes in the Boston area.  He told me that, as part of the Central Artery North Area work that preceded the Big Dig in the late 1980s, the MA 38 designation was extended from MA 28 in Somerville south to City Square Charlestown.  MA Route 99, which apparently went into City Square at one point, was then truncated at MA 38 at Sullivan Square.

Apparently, this information never filtered down to MassHighway's planning folks, as the current road inventory maps still show no route designations on either Rutherford Ave or Mystic Ave south of O'Brien Highway in Somerville.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

Alps

Quote from: roadman on April 12, 2013, 06:20:38 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 12, 2013, 12:17:04 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 11, 2013, 10:41:01 PM
In this sign replacement they left MA 38 South signs on the new BGSes south of the southern terminus of MA 38.
Are you sure the south end of Route 38 is at 28, not 99?

In the early 1990s, I had a interesting discussion with an older MassDPW engineer about the history of the numbered routes in the Boston area.  He told me that, as part of the Central Artery North Area work that preceded the Big Dig in the late 1980s, the MA 38 designation was extended from MA 28 in Somerville south to City Square Charlestown.  MA Route 99, which apparently went into City Square at one point, was then truncated at MA 38 at Sullivan Square.

Apparently, this information never filtered down to MassHighway's planning folks, as the current road inventory maps still show no route designations on either Rutherford Ave or Mystic Ave south of O'Brien Highway in Somerville.
This is all news to me. Time to go poke at my Massachusetts pages, where I was convinced 38 ended at 28 and 99 ended at US 1. Oh, wait, that sudden dread realization that I don't think I've ever driven 38 between 28 and 99. Back to Boston...

Pete from Boston

Quote from: NE2 on April 12, 2013, 12:17:04 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 11, 2013, 10:41:01 PM
In this sign replacement they left MA 38 South signs on the new BGSes south of the southern terminus of MA 38.
Are you sure the south end of Route 38 is at 28, not 99?

The 0.0 milepost on 38 is at the intersection with 28.  So somebody's wrong, somewhere.

bob7374

Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 13, 2013, 10:48:10 AM
Quote from: NE2 on April 12, 2013, 12:17:04 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 11, 2013, 10:41:01 PM
In this sign replacement they left MA 38 South signs on the new BGSes south of the southern terminus of MA 38.
Are you sure the south end of Route 38 is at 28, not 99?

The 0.0 milepost on 38 is at the intersection with 28.  So somebody's wrong, somewhere.
MA 38 ending at MA 28 is also what MassDOT's Numbered Routes with Mile Points state map seems to indicate, go to: http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/planning/Main/MapsDataandReports/Maps/NumberedRouteswithMilePoints.aspx to check it out. (You must use the state map, the district maps are not state route maps, but in fact road jurisdiction maps.  :confused:)

bob7374

With all the events going on in the Boston area this week, I haven't had time to post about the latest progress on the I-93 signing projects according to MassDOT. The project from Wilmington to Methuen is now indicated to be 95% complete. The contract from Somerville to Wilmington is listed as 90% complete. Lastly, and lagging behind, the southern contract from Randolph to Boston is now listed as 9% complete. The contractor there though has been busy lately along the '128' stretch from MA 28 to MA 3 putting in foundations for the new overhead assemblies. Hopefully, new signs will be coming soon.

roadman

#88
Quote from: bob7374 on April 20, 2013, 04:54:41 PM
With all the events going on in the Boston area this week, I haven't had time to post about the latest progress on the I-93 signing projects according to MassDOT. The project from Wilmington to Methuen is now indicated to be 95% complete. The contract from Somerville to Wilmington is listed as 90% complete. Lastly, and lagging behind, the southern contract from Randolph to Boston is now listed as 9% complete. The contractor there though has been busy lately along the '128' stretch from MA 28 to MA 3 putting in foundations for the new overhead assemblies. Hopefully, new signs will be coming soon.

I asked my sources at MassDOT about the status of this work.  They told me that the I-93 Somerville to Methuen sign projects are essentially complete, except for a) final testing and acceptance of the CMS boards, b) installation of an extra CMS board to replace a failed one in Medford (the current board, controller, etc. were toasted by a severe lightning strike a couple of years ago), c) final installation of the highway advisory radio (HAR) system, and d) installation of flashers on the "Reduced Salt Area" signs north of I-495 in Andover.  If I had to say, I'd peg current progress at closer to 96% than 90%.

As for Randolph to Boston, I've been told that the current construction plan is indeed to complete the majority of the OH signs and structures between Route 24 in Randolph and the Braintree split first, then complete the signs and structures on the section between Braintree and Southampton Street in Boston.  Besides the fact that the Southeast Expressway portion is far trickier than the Randolph to Boston section in terms of traffic control, this is likely due to more potential issues resulting from utilities and other conflicts north of the split.

In the meantime, the contractor has also been proceeding with the installation of route, regulatory and warning signs, as well as LGS panels on intersecting streets, throughout the entire project.  As such, I'd peg the current progress at about 16% instead of 9%.

Unfortunately, I have no clue as to the exact basis MassDOT uses in calculating project completion percentages, nor how often the information is updated on their public web site.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

bob7374

Quote from: roadman on April 26, 2013, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: bob7374 on April 20, 2013, 04:54:41 PM
With all the events going on in the Boston area this week, I haven't had time to post about the latest progress on the I-93 signing projects according to MassDOT. The project from Wilmington to Methuen is now indicated to be 95% complete. The contract from Somerville to Wilmington is listed as 90% complete. Lastly, and lagging behind, the southern contract from Randolph to Boston is now listed as 9% complete. The contractor there though has been busy lately along the '128' stretch from MA 28 to MA 3 putting in foundations for the new overhead assemblies. Hopefully, new signs will be coming soon.

I asked my sources at MassDOT about the status of this work.  They told me that the I-93 Somerville to Methuen sign projects are essentially complete, except for a) final testing and acceptance of the CMS boards, b) installation of an extra CMS board to replace a failed one in Medford (the current board, controller, etc. were toasted by a severe lightning strike a couple of years ago), c) final installation of the highway advisory radio (HAR) system, and d) installation of flashers on the "Reduced Salt Area" signs north of I-495 in Andover.  If I had to say, I'd peg current progress at closer to 96% than 90%.

As for Randolph to Boston, I've been told that the current construction plan is indeed to complete the majority of the OH signs and structures between Route 24 in Randolph and the Braintree split first, then complete the signs and structures on the section between Braintree and Southampton Street in Boston.  Besides the fact that the Southeast Expressway portion is far trickier than the Randolph to Boston section in terms of traffic control, this is likely due to more potential issues resulting from utilities and other conflicts north of the split.

In the meantime, the contractor has also been proceeding with the installation of route, regulatory and warning signs, as well as LGS panels on intersecting streets, throughout the entire project.  As such, I'd peg the current progress at about 16% instead of 9%.

Unfortunately, I have no clue as to the exact basis MassDOT uses in calculating project completion percentages, nor how often the information is updated on their public web site.
Well, you may have more of a clue than you think. Over the past couple days the Randolph-Boston project completion has gone up to 15%, the Wilmington to Methuen now is listed at 96%.

I do wish there would be some consistency in how projects are updated on their list. Some project engineers (assuming they provide this info) appear to be more diligent than others in providing new information. Some are forthcoming with frequent updates as to what is currently being done at a particular date while others who may simply give a percentage every few months, if at all.

I plan to take a road trip out to I-93 either on Saturday or Sunday to check out what has progressed in the past few weeks. I'll post my observations upon my return.

bob7374

Took the SE Expressway in its entirety from Braintree to Boston and back on Saturday. I had to deal with the congestion remaining from a 2-car accident on the way in, and waiting for a funeral procession to go by trying to get on near Andrew Square, but I did have some time to check out sign progress:
A few new regulatory signs (speed limit, bridge clearance height) have appeared on the highway itself in the Milton area. I am hoping for some new route shields soon along the entire route. Those that still remain from the early 1980's (or 1989 in the case of US 1) are in bad shape. As for new signage at the on-ramps, progress has proceeded northward to Granite Ave. (Exit 11) and include changing the one I-93/MA 3/US 1 guide sign that was put up NB at exit 9 to I-93/US 1. The only remaining signs to be switched out are at the NB ramp from Neponset Circle and the 2 southbound ramps taking traffic from Morrissey Blvd. Since the signs in the Neponset area are a mix of ground-mounted and overheads, I suspect the latter will be updated when the other overheads are replaced on the Expressway proper later in the year.

I am off to a job interview tomorrow morning which will have me taking '128' from Braintree to Dedham. I'll report on any sign progress along that stretch of I-93, and perhaps a link to photos from the two trips, later in the day.

massroadpatriot

Good luck tomorrow and thanks for the update man!

bob7374

The interview went well and was over early enough to do some sign-seeing after. I've posted an update on the I-93 signage project and some other interesting signage from my last two road trips in a new blog entry:
http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2013/04/another-i-93-update-plus-other-signs.html Enjoy.

PurdueBill

#93
Quote from: bob7374 on April 29, 2013, 09:49:37 PM
The interview went well and was over early enough to do some sign-seeing after. I've posted an update on the I-93 signage project and some other interesting signage from my last two road trips in a new blog entry:
http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2013/04/another-i-93-update-plus-other-signs.html Enjoy.

The newish JCT US 1 assembly in Dedham on Washington St. was there back in 2011 (and maybe even 2010) and appeared to be part of heavy work on Washington Street--it may have been a cookie-cutter replacement for an old sign that was in the records from back when US 1 actually went through the intersection ahead.  The paddle signs were not there then.

Somewhere I have pics from 2010 and 2011 trips through there; I should find them to pin down the date that I saw that new large JCT assembly.

EDIT TO ADD: Found the post from last year.  The JCT assembly does predate the paddle sign--the JCT sign was new in 2010 or shortly before.

deathtopumpkins

QuoteHere's a close-up which has a unique take on the US shield border than typically seen in MA

I don't know for certain but I wonder if this might be a new standard. Most, if not all, new paddle signs I've seen across the state recently have had that shield design. I believe I've seen them for 1, 20, 202, 6, and possibly 3.
Disclaimer: All posts represent my personal opinions and not those of my employer.

Clinched Highways | Counties Visited

roadman

#95
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on May 05, 2013, 08:03:57 PM
QuoteHere's a close-up which has a unique take on the US shield border than typically seen in MA

I don't know for certain but I wonder if this might be a new standard. Most, if not all, new paddle signs I've seen across the state recently have had that shield design. I believe I've seen them for 1, 20, 202, 6, and possibly 3.

For MA state shields mounted on LGS and BGS panels, using an inset border (similar to independent markers) has been MassHighway/MassDOT standard since the mid-1990s.  However, for US state shields mounted on LGS and BGS panels, the MassHighway/MassDOT standard is still to not use an inset border (MUTCD spec).

My guess is that the 'cutout with border' design was done by a contractor.  While MassDOT has specific field control measures in place for signs - see:

http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/8/docs/engineeringDirectives/2008/e-08-002.pdf

it seems likely that the presence or lack of a border on a cutout shield is the type of thing that wouldn't necessarily be flagged as incorrect by the MassDOT field inspector.  Of course, the other possibility is that these signs were installed as part of private developer projects, which aren't subject to the same level of construction oversight and field review that MassDOT-designed and/or funded contracts are.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

bob7374

Quick trip along the '128' section of I-93/US 1 this morning. Additional progress to report on placing foundations for the new overhead signs. Additional foundations have been placed on both sides of the southbound roadway between Exits 5 (MA 28) and 4 (MA 24). Work had started in the same location heading northbound with one foundation complete. Work appears to still be needed also between the Split and Exit 6 (MA 37). The project page lists the percentage completed now at 17%. MassDOT has also moved the northernmost I-93 signage project between Wilmington and the NH border to their completed list. The other project from Somerville to Wilmington is now at 92%. complete.

bob7374

I am planning another trip along the I-93 corridor (up to Reading, anyway) tomorrow on my way up to NH to check on the progress on I-93 signing progress. Or should I say completion. MassDOT has updated the project listing for the project between Somerville and Wilmington, moving it to join the Wilmington to NH project as being complete. This only leaves the project from Boston to Randolph to finish, making my road trips to check progress substantially shorter from now on (unless I want to check progress on I-95 from MA 9 to Lexington, but that's another thread). I'll post what I find over the weekend.

PHLBOS

#98
One thing that's a bit odd in one of those new LGS' is that while it only contains I-93 & US 1 shields, it still contains CAPE COD in the destination listing (a MA 3 destination).  The above-BRAINTREE covers all three routes.

One would've thought that MassDOT would've started using PROVIDENCE RI as a distant control destination instead of the Cape; or at least use Cape Cod & Providence and ditch the more local Braintree listing.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

on_wisconsin

This thread desperately need more pictures.
"Speed does not kill, suddenly becoming stationary... that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson



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